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Sunday Open Thread

by In Wales
Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 12:35:11 PM EST

The end of the weekend


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Too much work, I'm exhausted.  It will end soon though.  I hope others have had a more leisurely weekend.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 12:36:13 PM EST
Sick pets are not fun.  Fortunately, tomorrow is MLK Day, so I have the day off.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 12:40:15 PM EST
What's up?

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My ferrets have what I'm pretty sure is ECE, so I'm having to monitor them all day to make sure they're eating and drinking properly.  One of them dropped a ton of his weight -- big danger with them -- in a matter of only a couple days, so I had to take him to the vet's office.  Fortunately, I think we caught it in time, and he's putting it back on with this special crap they gave me to feed him.  The other doesn't seem to be suffering nearly as much, and hopefully it'll stay that way.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Eeep. That sounds complicated. You're right: sick pets are no fun.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It took me a while to figure out what they were talking about.  Normally with doctors I take the "whatever you say approach," as I did here.  But apparently it's just a matter of keeping weight on until it passes.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 03:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well hopefully they'll both recover fully quickly.  I wouldn't have thought ferrets would have much weight to lose in the first place!

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. Oscar Wilde
by Sam on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 03:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope, they don't.  Very high metabolism, so they burn through it astonishingly fast.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 03:15:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is an article in the Sunday NY Times about the building boom in Saudi Arabia. One of the current projects is a huge petrochemical plant to make plastics.

The idea (states the article) is the Saudi government wants to diversify from exporting oil. But all their planned projects will depend upon oil as an input. This includes cooling and powering the six new cities they are planning, the plastics factory and the new refineries and several other projects.

I've always felt that burning oil was the dumbest thing one could do. So my question is: when does oil become too valuable to burn? It is very difficult to make polymers from simple monomers and that's why oil is preferred. On the other hand lots of things will burn.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 12:54:40 PM EST
As a chemist this is something that has long bothered me.   There are so many valuable uses of oil in chemical and pharmaceutical fields that are extremely difficult or cost prohibitive to replicate in other ways.  

When oil runs out it won't just be the need to switch to other energy forms but also to find whole new ways of getting by without plastics, and the whole host of other products that are derived from oil.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 01:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely. And it's not as though Saudi is short of sunshine for CSP etc or (I assume) wind on its coasts.
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 01:38:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember reading a Sci-Fi book from the late 60s which was set in the late 90s where the characters laughed at the idea of wasting oil as fuel.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is more likely that demand for oil to burn will make plastics and other materials made from oil more expensive (like, via biofuels, oil is making food more expensive) than that oil will become too valuable to burn.

The question is, how expensive does oil have to become in order to be priced out of the fuel market by other alternatives.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:35:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They are a good thing. Really

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 01:44:19 PM EST
Well that was all fairly predictable.
Can I trade in increasing hedge fund propaganda? I'm predicting an increasing volume...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:10:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hedge-fund managers, lords of lucre - Times Online
"One thing I have learnt is that rich people suffer more pain from losing money than pleasure from making it."

My heart bleeds.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, no.  I´m not falling for that one.  I know your masochistic tendencies.  (;

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:36:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hedge funds satisfy the needs of greedy wealthy people with no idea what to do with the money coming out of their eyeballs.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EzraKlein Archive | The American Prospect

EDUCATION OF A WORLD BANK CHIEF ECONOMIST.

The World Bank has named Justin Lin its new chief economist. Dani Rodrik thinks this an inspired choice, which is good enough for me. Lin's wikipedia page says "he received a Master's degree in Marxist political economy from Peking University in 1982, and a PhD in economics from the University of Chicago in 1986," which is plenty absurd to merit a blog post.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:29:29 PM EST
Well, gotta admire the exposure, I suppose.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
JaP has a diary on dKos about the False Memory Syndrome America has developed about the economic success of the Reagan presidency and how Obama may be sending the wrong message when he tries to wrap himself (as Hilary is trying to a lesser extent) in a similar mantle of hope for "Morning in America".

Both BondDad - Ronald Reagan; Fiscal Disaster and Krugman - Entrepreneurship have more in-depth critiques of the "reagan" effect.

I appreciate JaP's hope that Obama (or HRC) understand the difference between the myth and the reality. Of course, you will appreciate I have a more jaundiced view.

And that leads to my question : How bad can it get before the US recognises it has to change course ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:45:44 PM EST

And that leads to my question : How bad can it get before the US recognises it has to change course ?

Of course the US is a rather complex kind of entity and one can't expect some sudden, unanimous recognition. As with climate change, while the US gov has at last given token recognition to the need for change, many US cities and states had recognised the need and already introduced new policies.

Before the current economic crisis there were some Americans who saw what was coming and the need for change, undoubtedly many more do now and are making changes. I doubt if one will get any overall "US" recognition of the need for radical change - nice as it would be to hear "Our critics were right" :-) - but change  is likely to happen in a diverse, incremental way.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 03:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What if it weren't just a matter of US misbehaviour? What if it were a combination of 'financial industry' and corporatism which, in its tidier, more presentable form is known as "'democratic' politics", the world over?

For the life of me, I don't understand why people waste their time fretting over US presidential candidates or any others for that matter. None of the candidates is willing or, more importantly, even apt, to bring about any fundamental changes, as laudable as many of their electoral vows may be.  

The common denominator to societies' problems, whether in the US, France, Malasia or Kenya, is corporate / financial predominance over government; ie, usurpation of popular representation.

This is not an American phenomenon.

by Loefing on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 04:40:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The common denominator to societies' problems, whether in the US, France, Malasia or Kenya, is corporate / financial predominance over government; ie, usurpation of popular representation.

This is not an American phenomenon.

You mean it's not JUST an American phenomenon. Of course, but the US IS a rather major player in the world - even if in decline - and its ideological influence is enormous. Its economic, military and ideological power are the main reasons why so many other countries have followed the same model.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:37:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I mean precisely that this is not an American phenomenon!

Financial central banking shenanigans were simply handed over from the British Empire to the US in the aftermath of the pulverization of Europe in WWII.

Why do you suppose that happened, btw?

Here's an interesting article called The Foundations of the American Century, by William Engdahl.

by Loefing on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The question of something's origin is different from the question of its existence and current nature. Undoubtedly  some of its aspects have their origin elsewhere, but it now exists in the US, so it is now an American phenomenon - too.  There it developed further and in a very powerful country, hence its ability to spread it further, which I referred to.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:13:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your comment denies the notion of continuity, which is key to understanding why finance and politicking are there where they are today.
by Loefing on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your comment denies the notion of continuity, which is key to understanding why finance and politicking are there where they are today.

Rubbish - it denies (in this case) unchanging continuity. Yet again it's not either/or - something can continue, WHILE changing - like our history as a species.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Jan 21st, 2008 at 06:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At the risk of angering techno... if they're not careful they'll end up brinking back the Volcker Fed and his 18% interest rate.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:37:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The 1933 version of King Kong is much more fun than the more recent version.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 02:49:51 PM EST
and better than the 1970's version.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But remakes almost always smell like rotten cheese.

It's more interesting to think of remakes that were better than the original. (Anyone who thinks magnificent Seven is better than Seven Samauri is disqualified from having an opinion.)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Versions of Shakespeare don't really count as remakes

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lord of the rings?

The Thing?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:32:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pocketful of miracles / Lady for a day (Capra)

The man who knew too much / The man who knew too much (Hitchcock)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 08:34:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just learnt that internet voting in the upcoming Democratic primary for expats will be run by a company called Everyone Counts. Does anybody know anything about them? All I know so far is that they have no sense of irony: their home page has a comment (from KPFA Radio, Berkeley, California)
it's much easier than the system we used last year, and overall, we couldn't ask for a better result
that could have been made by Bush about Diebold...

So far Biden, Clinton, Edwards, Kucinich, Obama and Richardson have confirmed their participation in this primary.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 04:24:55 PM EST

London's French Foreign Legion Shuns Sarkozy Plea to Come Home

Like many French citizens, Rousseau says he left home to start his own business without being weighed down by high taxes and restrictive labor laws. Now he sells about 2,200 croissants each weekend, and he has just ordered 100,000 pounds ($197,650) of equipment to meet demand for his baguettes and quiches.

Rousseau, 35, is just one example of the Gallic invasion of London, now home to some 190,000 French expatriates. So many well-educated young people have moved to the U.K. that President Nicolas Sarkozy has urged ``France's children'' to bring their talents home.

(...)

``In France, you work for others,'' Rousseau says. ``You're dead before you get started.''

(...)

One of the biggest attractions is an economy whose growth has outpaced that of France this decade, creating jobs that don't exist at home. Unemployment in France is 7.9 percent compared with 5.2 percent in the U.K., according to figures from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

Beyond prosperity, London's informality attracts many French people suffocated by the social mores of Paris. ``No one asks for your age or your diploma here,'' Sivilia says.

That new sense of freedom balances out living in the congested and expensive U.K. capital.

``The public services are a catastrophe, Heathrow is a third-world airport, but no one worries about it,'' says Marc Levy, a French novelist living in London's Chelsea neighborhood. ``The Brits are phlegmatic and that helps your creativity.''

Jobs created over the past ten years in the UK: 2.5M
Jobs created over the past 10 years in France: 2.5M (almost all of them under Jospin)


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:15:16 PM EST
Jerome a Paris:
Jobs created over the past ten years in the UK: 2.5M
Jobs created over the past 10 years in France: 2.5M (almost all of them under Jospin)
So. there haven't been many jobs created in France in the last 6 years, then?

And what does a French baker have to do with the Anglo disease? If at least this Rousseau guy were a Banker...

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, the market for bakeries is pretty much saturated in France. I can walk to three different ones less than 100 meters from my front door...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 08:30:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what does a French baker have to do with the Anglo disease?

Luxury food provider in a financial services boom town - which unsurprisingly drains workers from a neighbouring region to which it is connected by high-speed rail.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jan 21st, 2008 at 01:36:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So London is home to 190,000 French expatriates...

How many French expatriates in the UK total?
How many UK expatriates is Paris home to?
How many UK expatriates in France in total?

I can't find any of these figures in 5 mins of googling, which doubtless explains why Bloomberg didn't mention them either...

Still, the figures I've heard in the past suggest the traffic each way rather evens out...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know the answers either but I betcha there's way more brits in France than vice versa.

The French are welcome to join our rat-race, many of us are opting out.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to the French National Institute of Statistics, in 2004-2005, there were 120 000 residents from UK in France.

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 06:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Any idea where Bloomberg gets that 190.000 figure and how reliable it is? Unlike most European countries,  I don't think that EU citizens need to register in the UK or get a residence permit.  I couldn't find anything on the web about it (though I did find an article on retirement in The Times where they suddenly discover that taxes can be lower in France...)
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 08:55:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Death and Darkness in Gaza: People are dying, Help us!

By Maan, 20/01/08 "ICH"  

A humanitarian crisis is underway as the Gaza Strip's only power plant began to shut down on Sunday, and the tiny coastal territory entered its third full day without shipments of vital food and fuel supplies due to Israel's punitive sanctions.

... " We say this is totally Israel's responsibility, and that reducing the fuel supplies until the plant had to shut down will affect not only the electrical system but the water supply, and the entire infrastructure in Gaza - everything."

...
 The Israeli government says the closure is punishment for an ongoing barrage of Palestinian homemade projectiles fired from the Gaza Strip.

...

The UN Human Rights Council's Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the occupied territories, John Dugard, also issued a much sharper statement on Friday, saying that Israel must have foreseen the loss of life and injury to many nearby civilians when it targeted the Ministry of Interior building in Gaza City.

This, and the killings of other Palestinians during the week, plus the closures, "raise very serious questions about Israel's respect for international law and its Commitment to the peace process", Dugard said. He said it violates the strict prohibition on collective punishment contained in the Fourth Geneva Convention, and one of the basic principles of international humanitarian law: that military action must distinguish between military targets and civilian targets.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19120.htm



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 05:29:06 PM EST


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