Tuesday Open Thread

by afew
Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:09:29 PM EST

FLAX

If these ladies can get a thread out of it,

so can we.


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So: done any good scutching lately?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:12:26 PM EST
You mean like the M. Jackson song?  

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's what dem dames up there are doing.

Michael Jackson? Hooo-ee!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:33:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dictionary def:  to dress flax, beat it.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:18:11 PM EST
They are quite attentive aren't they?  There's something slightly Children of the Corn about it.

Are we meant to come up with captions or think of more darned puns?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wooldn't think it's necessary.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:32:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was saving it for Friday, but they forced me when they saw another source of cloth being mentioned.

As we reached that point the local hilltop farmer arrived  to feed them, and we were more interesting than the food.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A nice opportunity for us to flax lyrical about Wales again.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well I'll Jute get round to it in a minute.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shear stupidity...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:00:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ewe woold say that

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:07:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shearly we already have more puns than woold patch hell a mile? Sew a button on knit now.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:17:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you don't want us to Ram a few more in?

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fleece stop it now...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:02:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Stop pulling the wool over my eyes.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 05:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, there's nice! They're so clean -- Welsh rain washes whiter!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:31:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was reading a firend's blog and she spoke briefly about her reservations over the democratic presidential choices.

A commenter replied;-

My political heart is held together with Velcro these days. Break it, slap it back together, carry on. There is little or no chance of a good result as long as power is in the hands of people who would seek it. The electoral system has been hopelessly compromised and, AFAIK, no measures have been taken to make it more secure. Democracy is a game we are given to play while the men at the top decide which of their number will rule and which will oppose, and then they make it seem to have been our doing.

I have a small ivory box with a gold padlock on it, and inside is my last crumb of hope. I don't expect to be needing the key any time soon.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:38:44 PM EST
Wikipedia: Sortition
Almost all Greek writers who mention democracy (including Aristotle[1], Plato and Herodotus) both emphasise the role of selection by lot or state outright that being allotted is more democratic than elections. For example Aristotle says:
"it is thought to be democratic for the offices to be assigned by lot, for them to be elected is oligarchic," [6]
We see the same idea in the 18th century after the re-emergence of democracy in the writings of Charles de Secondat, baron de Montesquieu:
"The suffrage by lot is natural to democracy, as that by choice is to aristocracy"[7]


We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow!  I had no idea about this!  Sortition's going on my list of "things we should do, just to see what happens."

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:41:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Draw lots on who to vote for...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was actually envisioning beginning the process at an early point.  Like, all registered voters with no criminal or mental health records.  Choose one in a random lottery.  Make them President.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:00:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hold the wrong opinion, get a mental health record?

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:03:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Worked in the USSR...  

</dodges tomatoes>

Frankly I don't think our health system is coordinated enough to pull off such a coup.  I do want a leader who is not insane.  I say that as someone with a significant mental health record.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who hasn't got one.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:11:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like Lewis Black's idea:

Ok, so whoever wins the next American Idol - blind fold them and have them throw a dart at a map of the United States. Then we put a monkey in an airplane and push the little fucker out over the area where the dart hit. Then, whoever the monkey reaches first and grabs their hand, they will be the next president. It would have to be better then what we have now.


WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:05:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
America's great good luck is to already have the monkey as incumbent.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:55:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly.

But it is more interesting to contemplate a Congress appointed in that way.

Political parties would still exist, as policy consultancies and for the purposes of caucusing, etc, but all the power-hungry people would go away.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 05:02:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't get emotionally committed to a candidate.  It's really a waste of time.  We're about to nominate someone who I now find jumped to her feet last night to cheer when Bush said the surge was awesome and was stopping al-Qaeda, presumably because it polled well in GE match-ups against His Holiness, St John of Arizona.

If only our stupidity could be exported.  Oh, wait....

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:32:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank god that for the purposes of broadcast television, via the magic of my Bell Expressvu Satellite dish, I live in Canada.

Was talking to my Da who is in LA right now, he had switched on the television to watch the news only to see the President wailing away on some nonsenseyet again.

She actually did that?

You know, there's always Cynthia McKinney to vote for, who has also the (unimportant, but still) quality of being hot, too.

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Didn't she punch a police officer?  

We're all talking about voting for the President, right?  Just double checking..

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:51:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, was she the one who punched the Capitol Hill cop?

First Nader, then the weird guy with the glasses, and now McKinney.  Life is clearly rough for the Greens.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the one who punched the Capitol Hill cop?

Spin machine working on you...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think she really did, actually...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not the point.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It was my point.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your point was that that policeman punching incident (however it really happened) makes her not Presidential. Drew even concludes she is a fruitcake. That's my point.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe we just have different ideas of what makes a person a fruitcake?  I think punching a cop who asked for your id suggests you are unhinged and unable to remain calm in frustrating situations and have inadequate self control.  Anger management issues.  I don't think it makes her "unpresidential."  I think it makes her "not the person I want to have with their finger on the nukes button."

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:11:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
like thers a good answer to the person I want to have with their finger on the nukes button question.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess the ideal candidate would be someone who has no fingers.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:46:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe if you had been grabbed from behind, your first reaction would have been to push free, too? Maybe we don't know to this that with what force that police officer was slapped? Maybe this whole issue was played up by Fox News et al, with racist undertones (Ghetto Slut)? Maybe the Dem establishment felt thuis is the right time to drop a controversial leftie? Maybe you are channeling "she makes us look crazy" Wonkette?

I'm depressed that you and Drew are buying into this media narrative.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not. Really, if you're a lefty in the US, you have to have a thick skin, and generally keep your mouth shut in public, because the degree of marginalization of views which are quite mainstream in other parts of the world is pretty impressive.

It sorta comes with the territory of a de facto one-party state.

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd like to point out that you'll find down-thread a bit that I said I'd consider voting for her.  My view of her as being nuttier than a fruitcake was, again, not a result of the cop thing but rather a result of seeing her on television several times.  You're correct about the racism that greeted McKinney in the media, and it wasn't just Faux News.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sorry; I really don't want to depress you.  I like you and think you deserve to be happy.

If it's not clear by now, I don't think people are always clearly the victims just because they are lefties.  I'm probably a good deal more lefty than her.  I'm a bloody communist.  A person can be a lefty, and even a victim of bad press, and still be nuts.  Did the cop ask for her id because he was racist?  I have no idea.  Was punching him the best response?  Is it ever a good response?  If Denis Kucinich punched someone, would we think that's acceptable because he is a white man?  I wouldn't.  Am I buying into FOX news?  I don't even watch FOX news.  I hope that if I have illustrated anything during my time here, it is that while I may from time to time be totally wrong or raving mad, I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself.  Media narrative?  Me?  Seriously?  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sometimes a punch is indeed the best response. If war is foreign policy when diplomacy has failed, then certainly a punch can be considered domestic policy where politeness has failed.

And this is true not just in standing up for your political rights; for instance, hockey. (You should go to a Blackhawks game - I understand tickets are quite easy to come by.)

And the Democratic alternative to that punch, which we've been seeing on parade these past few, doesn't even begin to compare...

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a non-violent person, really.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that sounds like the sort of comment made having just hit a person.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, but if you believe she punched or even slapped a cop... wait, if you even believe there's a prossibility that she may have punched or slapped a cop, then you're buying into the media narrative.

There's no way she did either one -- she absolutely would've been charged.  Cops do not drop charges when one of their own has been touched in any sort of aggressive way, even if the case seems unwinable.  The very fact that they eventually dropped it is evidence enough that nothing happened other than what she and the witnesses said -- he grabbed her arm from behind and she shook him off.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 08:13:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
mckinney in particular and black female congressmembers in general, are not treated as members of congress by the capitol police. whereas the CP have to memorize all the members of congress by face as one of their job requirements, they tend to "forget" when the member of congress happens not to be white. you see, they just don't look "congressional," being women and black and all.

so mckinney is grabbed from behind by a cop who claims he didn't know who she was. this in itself is grounds for the guy getting transferred. mckinney swings her arm back in responser to being suddenly grabbed from behind, and the cop goes to the cable TV shows about being "punched."

bloggers left and right alike parrot this talking point with no end of racial under- and overtones, and the talking point becomes media truth. except that when the capitol police do a review about the thing, all charges are dropped and the officer is found to have been in the wrong.

so the whole thing we're tlaking about is nothing more than a whisper job to cover up for chronic racist and sexist behavior against a member of congress (who, coincidentally, had been holding hearings on racism in the capitol police ranks against black officers in the force).

by wu ming on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:24:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, I concluded she was a fruitcake based upon having seen her on television a few times in the past, although, to be fair, I can't recall what topics she was discussing.

But, as I said, redstar makes a fair point about the war that I'll consider should Her Majesty sell us out (as I fear she may well do).  If ending the war is off the table, then forget it.  The only issue I'd have to vote on is the Supreme Court, so why bother?

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no, it was a real story.  She's nuttier than a fruitcake.

Still, right on the war, so point to redstar.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Spin is not about truth, but the interpretation of truth.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:02:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, spin is the art of carefully selecting truths in order to create an attractive and saleable fiction

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you're both right, depending on the case.  Sometimes spin is based upon outright lies that allow for a certain interpretation of the truth.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I'm sorry - you're dismissing a candidate for US president because they're not sane enough?

Hello?

General Irony is in the building, and his dosimeter is reading 'fatal'.

We have McCain singing 'Bomb Iran', Romney playing Mr Evil Business Hair from central casting, Huckabee taking the gospels as gospel, Clinton-zilla pissing off her base with naked racism punctuated by bouts of strategic crying, and Obama being MLK without the MLK.

Meanwhile Bush squats in the White House like a drugged out toad with a brain tumour.

And McKinney is nuts? Because she whacked a cop?

Is she likely to bomb Russia? Is she going to nuke Iran? Does she believe God speaks to her? Does she think poor people are evil and should be punished? Does she believe in the magic market unicorn? Is she old, senile, narcissistic, or just plain delusional and mean?

Not so much insane, as not nearly insane enough to have a hope at the top job.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:32:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just said above that I might well vote for her and that my views of her were based upon actually listening to her (and, no, not about the cop incident).  Did you not read my comments?

You think I don't understand any of that?  I've given more time and money than most people could dream of to support candidates who vowed to end this God-damned war.  I'm one of the few in this shit-can country who's been sane the whole fucking time for the last seven years.  I'm one of the few who's been warning from Day One of Her Majesty's candidacy that this sack of white trash would sell us out on the war.  Many have been shouting about the blatant racism for months, only to see it ignored while this filth's sexist stunts are happily embraced by mouth-breathing pseudo-feminists.

And it's only the knowledge that Hillary Clinton is too much of a coward to do much more damage that makes me consider voting for her to guard against McCain.

Is McKinney as nuts as others in this race?  Nope.  You're probably right that she's far less so.  But don't think for a second that I don't see the insanity of this contest and what it means.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tell us how you really feel...

Myself, I'm getting more and more nervous - and I haven't been following the primaries that closely. If it will be Clinton vs McCain, a Dem president doesn't look guaranteed to me at all.

by Nomad on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And is Clinton wins it will be a hawkish Dem presidency.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:52:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you certainly have a point when you put it like that. {retires chuckling}

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
left out Mr. 9/11...
by Nomad on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:23:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes to both.

She's running as a Green for President, having left the Democratic party after having been primaried (a la Lieberman) not once, but twice by "centrists" in her heavily progressive Atlanta-area district with the help of massive doses of outside money.

As for why se was primaried, it really wasn;t because of that cop incident, more to do with some controversial statements about 911 that she made. I guess having the temerity to suggest that the Bush administration was amply warned about 911 before it happened was offensive to the political donor class which makes the Democratic party really tick.
This is why I am somewhat amused by the left blogosphere in the US celebrating Lamont's pyrrhic victory, and Donna Edwards (to whom I've given money) and Mark Pera current drive: fact is, not only is this only two out of hundreds of crappy Democratic representatives their primarying, but the other side's been doing it for decades and winning. Working within that party is not a winning proposition, and neither is working outside of it. Thus are disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of voters, and McKinney moving to the Greens is an example. You'll say marginal, but all the same, the Democrats had it coming.

And as for hitting the cop, I'm pretty sure that, asusual, the cop had it coming too...

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:02:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, she did, according to every story I've read and the pictures I've seen.  More than a little disturbing and depressing.  Me thinks Dems are being played on the war.

McKinney?  Hot?  I certainly hope that was a joke.  I don't think I could bring myself to vote for someone who introduced the Tupac Shakur Records Act.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh. But it soes speak to the beliefs of a minority of Americans.

In any event, as a bill it was certainly no loonier than the bipartisan bill, passed overwhelmingly in both houses of congress last December, celebrating Christmas and the Christian heritage of the United States, although, <snark> because this silly bill spoke to the beliefs of a majority of Americans, I guess that makes it ok. </snark>

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You'll get no argument from me on that.  Then there was the Armenian Genocide resolution, pushed by the surprisingly powerful Armenian lobby.  Which was quite an amazing accomplishment, since I'm pretty sure America's Armenian population basically consists of the members of System of a Down.

So who knows?  Maybe McKinney can get Pelosi on-board for this waste of time.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:35:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And that should tell you all you need to know about how the politics of minority views are played out by "Democratic" "leaders".

Let's Go Red Wings!
by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, that's true, although you don't need to convince me of the big-picture issue there, as I think my various rants for the past few months demonstrate.  And it ain't just a problem with the leadership.

Really, I was just looking for an excuse to take a stab at Pelosi.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I forget I'm preaching to the choir sometimes. Y'know, the choir's so small...

Let's Go Red Wings!
by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:49:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, unfortunately so.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just as a point of fact, there are more than four Armenians in the US.  There are quite a few of them in the greater Los Angeles area, actually, particularly in areas like Burbank and Glendale.  A friend of mine went to a high school where the two dominant ethnic groups were Korean and Armenian, everyone else being a minority.
by Zwackus on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 06:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
in both los angeles and the san joaquin valley, around fresno.
by wu ming on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:28:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean literary lions like William Saroyan, and minor government figures like Governor Dukemejian?

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:59:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This friday's photoblog will have:

Stencils and Other Street Art
Historical Photos
Photos as Usual

Oh, a bumper packed edition! Get snapping!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 12:57:32 PM EST
I'll have to repackge my comment above for that.

Let's Go Red Wings!
by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That would be great.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great...!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oooh. I think I have something for every theme this time.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--
by tzt (tztmail at gmail dot com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yay! I shall look forward to your contributions.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just saw the Bill from Portland Maine interview with Plutonium Page and wondered if our own Jerome is on the list ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:14:57 PM EST
Oh yea, PP is a beer drinker. gotta luv that gal

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:21:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not a front pager, remember?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:22:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but he did describe you as a god recently (buy someone a pizza and they'll love you forever it seems) and he's gonnna run out of front-pagers sooner rather than later.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They ran out of worthwhile ones long ago.

Can count them on one hand...actually, almost one finger.

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Didn't get the freelance photo gig.

Or rather - did get the freelance photo gig, but was offered £30/page, including all photos and words, so walked away laughing at the stupidity of publishers.

I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't a start-up mag aimed at a rich audience.

I'm getting so, very, very exasperated with business types who want the moon on a stick but aren't prepared to pay a fair rate for it.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:25:33 PM EST
I was offered that twenty years ago, without pictures!

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of my ex students, who has been very successful as a photographer, despairs of the business. He says he is being offered rates he got twenty years ago. One problem is that it has become one of the fashionable careers and newcomers will accept ridiculous rates to get started - but will then find they can't make a living over a career.

Don McCullin, one of the most famous British (oops he prefers English) photographers, made his name through war photography. He said that when he began you might get five photographers covering something in the same place. When he finished you could have five hundred turning up.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:45:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This relates to my comment a few days ago regarding membership of the NUJ. If all freelance photographers, writers etc were members and stuck by the code of conduct and recommendations not to accept stupid rates, and to protect their copyright properly then media bosses wouldn't be able to get away with it.

But of course, 100% unionisation of any sector would be beyond my wildest dreams.

Those reasons are why photography is likely to remain a hobby (at most paying for the kit I have, over a number of years).

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, it's worth pointing out that the NUJ has been a historically very inept union when it comes to photographers:

  • Years of dithering over photographers who only do a bit of press work and mainly cover other kinds of work. (Missed out on a lot of joiners that way.)

  • A history of selling photogs down the river to protect writers jobs.

  • A large regional bias in favour of London based photogs in the past.

Sorry... old battle memories do tend to make for ranting...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know anything about the history of NUJ but I have had a colleague banging on at me to join if I start getting any commissioned work.  

It did strike me when I read the website that they are fairly powerless to do a great deal for photographers who work freelance and although they give recommendations on rates, they are fairly worthless if a large number of amateurs/enthusiasts sell their work for next to nothing and are ignorant about protecting their rights - just because it is nothing more than a hobby for them.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:13:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even if they could unionize everyone, there'd be nothing to stop companies from hiring only the non-union enthusiasts. (I'm pro-union, don't get me wrong.)
by lychee on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:31:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah true, but the strength of the unions would mean that those employers would be easier to challenge.  If only, hey?!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 06:03:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
One of new year resolution is to avoid work for knock-down rates - something I've done rather too much of in the past. (Although not to this extent.)

Unionisation of freelancers is always very, very difficult to arrange. I'm sure a lot of photographers don't even realise the NUJ is relevant to them. And freelancers by nature are solitary. It's not like we'll be standing in picket lines, yelling 'scab' at people who are taking phone calls from editors.

I'm not sure what the solution is. (Actually I have an idea, but I'm still wondering how to implement it.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:13:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've also done a lot of work with BECTU who deal with freelance TV types, including make up, camerawork, a wide range.  Because so few are members of a union, if a member starts kicking off on terms and conditions (or the union on their behalf) they wind up getting blacklisted and can't find work again.  And the stupid hours that people are expected to work mean that there have to be choices made over whether to have a career or children, whether to have a life outside of work or not...

But it is an issue as to how unions can support freelancers, for all the reasons you mention and more.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As you will be aware, it's difficult enough to unionise a  group who work together in the same building. Imagine trying to organize a group which ranges from people who hunt celebrities at night in the West End of London to ones who jet off to the other side of the globe if there's a rumour that conflict is about to begin and compete to get closest to the deadly action - often for peanuts - and resent the prices the paparazzi can get for celeb trivia.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:21:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hence why I said - in my wildest dreams. I've no idea how to make it work.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:04:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Arse. That is obscene for them to offer that amount. You'd get far more than that writing a trashy piece for a  'My Story' section in a women's mag.  

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or rather - did get the freelance photo gig, but was offered £30/page, including all photos and words, so walked away laughing at the stupidity of publishers.

Ow.

Reminds me of the mag who wanted me to sell them 3 photos for less than 100 euros, and keep all the rights to the photos, also rights to use them anytime for any possible purpose without compensation or even notification.

You have a normal feeling for a moment, then it passes. --More--

by tzt (tztmail at gmail dot com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
SOP in publishing now. I regularly get work reprinted in EU and US editions. Only one magazine offers reprint rates - the rest assume you're working on assignment, and you have no rights. (Sic.)  
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yikes.  What a bummer!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:57:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't speak for photog or UK rates, but as another freelancer, gaah, you have my sympathy for being offered a bad rate. Another post (Ted, I think) noted someone being offered rates from 20 years ago, and I think it's because with all of the layoffs/outsourcing and competition for others now doing the same freelance work as you or anyone else here are trying to do, publishers think you should be desperate for work, thus they think they can get away with it.  

(Personal rant follows) I see crap like this, too. Some companies have truly small budgets; they are usually understanding if you won't accept their rates. But many others don't understand why they have to pay "reasonable" rates when they saw a flyer in the cafeteria from someone who'll edit text for $9/hr (that's an insulting rate), or why if you have your own recording equipment do you have to have separate fees for "talent" and "studio time." All you're doing is hitting the start-recording button, can't you include that in your talent fee? (Answer: NO.) Some websites have started up here in the last few years where companies place editing work offers on line and then ask for bids. I hate that. I hate the shark-pool environment, as if they can throw vague offers to us like chum and then sit back to watch the frenzy.</rant>

by lychee on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:20:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't write for less than 50 cents a word commercially. Look at Media Planet.

I think, if I recall correctly, they pay 125 € for a 1/4 page ( 1500 characters), 200€ for a full page, + 50 € for express delivery, interview expenses, per diems. mileage etc.

Even bog standard business translations run from 15 - 35 cents a word. For ad copy it can be up to 1.00 €

For photos we use the Gorilla price list (in Finnish, sorry)

as examples:

  • Culture magazine - printrun 5000 1 page 75€ (single use)
  • Newspaper - printrun 500,000 1/2 page 180 € (single use)


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:24:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.mediaplanetgroup.co.uk/

I am not recommending them, though I know writers who happily work for them and make a very decent living. The Media Planet MO is to tie editorial to advertising, so they sell prefinanced articles. Not my cup of tea.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pretty website but at least the uk Link off that map appears broken.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and it's local partners aren't a pile of progressive goodness

Partners - Mediaplanet

Local Partners
The Sun
The Sunday Times
The Times
The Telegraph
The Sunday Telegraph
Evening Standard
Mail on Sunday


Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:51:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Their partners differ from country to country. I only know Funland.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 06:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you had a thing on family pictures not long ago?

My wife's uncle is getting older, and is setting much of her family's history on the web, which is really a fascinating (and quite sad, too, her uncle Emile murdered in the death camps.) Her great aunt Helene, who was quite the character, just passed away a little over a year ago at the ripe old age of 105, and she has two other aunts at or nearing 100, so I guess I know who is going to oulive whom.

The Oncle Marcel and Tatie Rose in the stories are my wife's grandparents, her grandmother Rose and I being quite close; in her later years she was afflicted by alzheimer and often mixed me up with my father-in-law. She probably told me enough stories about the war, going South, life in Nice and then in Sclos de Conte in the hills, to fill a book which, between my wife and I and some of the other things her ucle Robert recently sent to us, we may actually do. Rose passed away about ten years ago.

My family pictures and all that are not out on the web yet though a few "famous" family members sort of are; they're all over the place, close family in France, Belgium, Ireland, Canada and the US. Happily, nothing in my family history comes close to comparing to my wife's family history, and her close relatives are even more widespread, due to circumstances, than my own, in France of course, but also Peru, Uruguay, Argentina, Canada, the US, Israel, Poland (she has an uncle who was an actual Lublin Pole who was a judge in post-war Poland, I never met him but know his kids quite well; he has since passed away as well), Denmark, Italy, Colombia and Switzerland, all of whom she and her family regularly see and/or correspond.

If we think we live in crazier times, we have but to look at what preceded us by a mere few decades.
 

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:41:04 PM EST
I read just a few pages about Emile and Robert. What density of history, and how right your wife's uncle is to create this record, which is very well done, too.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's late but I started to read a bit of the history. It's gripping.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 06:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
whilst we know that not all Israelis support the ocucpation, it is hard sometimes to get a sense of how much opposition there is or how it manifests.

this is an interestin essay on alternet about a new book that's been published, Lords of the Land: The War for Israel's Settlements in the Occupied Territories, 1967-2007, that seems ot have moved the debate on by looking at how occupation has distorted Israeli domestic politics.

Edith Zertal and Akiva Eldar end their exhaustive study of Israeli settlement policy with a poignant question: Is it possible, they wonder, that Israel's 2005 withdrawal from the Gaza Strip will become a "first step in Israel's journey of liberating itself from the enslavement to the territories that it occupied in 1967, and which have occupied [it] since then and have brought it to the verge of destruction"? Negotiations that have been set in motion by the Annapolis peace conference in November will likely provide a partial answer. Zertal, a leading Israeli historian, and Eldar, a chief political columnist and a former Washington correspondent for the Israeli daily Ha'aretz, have recently published Lords of the Land: The War for Israel's Settlements in the Occupied Territories, 1967-2007. It is a detailed history of Israel's nearly forty-year occupation of Gaza and the West Bank with a painful contention at its core. The occupation, say Zertal and Eldar, has wounded Israel's very psyche, damaging both its sense of self and its moral standing in the world. "The prolonged military occupation and the Jewish settlements that are perpetuating it have toppled Israeli governments," write the authors, "and have brought Israel's democracy and its political culture to the brink of an abyss."

The Hebrew version of this book was a best-seller in Israel, and sparked a debate there on the devastating realities and consequences of Israeli settlement policy



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:41:53 PM EST
Described by the travellers:


Those people inside the station daren't leave for fear of losing their chance to travel. But trains aren't going. So people are literally living there and have been for days. Whole families have camped out there setting out newspapers on the floor and settling down. The huge expanse of the station concourse is a sea of bodies.

There are only a dozen toilets, so people relieve themselves on the station concourse. I saw human faeces. The amount of mess is indescribable.



Vencit omnia veritas.
by Luis de Sousa (luis[dot]a[dot]de[dot]sousa[at]gmail[dot]com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 01:56:33 PM EST
Link?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:14:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but 500,000 on guangzhou station is too horrifying to contemplate.

WTF is up with snow in southern china, anyways?

by wu ming on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:32:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
an interview with Martin Amis in the Independent

I doubt this is worth reading in full unless you're more interested in literary figures than I am. However Amis has a curious profile in the media: Both left-wing darling of a sort and a cheerleader for the neocon right of late.

To supporters, he's one of the few public figures brave enough to speak the truth about Islam and the failures of multiculturalism. To opponents, he's just a mouthpiece for racism. So who is the real Martin Amis?

somewhat reminiscent of Nik Cohn, Observer columnist and Co-author of the Euston (Useless ?) manifesto. Personally I've never quite understood the obvious contradictions such people support and have dismissed them, however lauded, as dangerously lacking in introspection.

Johann Hari comes to a similar conclusion;-

Amis's cognitive dissonance seems to squat in the room, like a physical presence. With the right lobe of his brain, Amis tells me he loves our multiracial society, and he says it with vigour and rigour. I don't for a second think he's lying. But then, with the left lobe he passionately praises a writer who seems to me to be an outright racist, one who damns virtually all Muslims as secret Sharia-carriers and brags that the "white" birth-rate is still higher in the US. It is as though Amis has been fractured by the kerosene blast of September 11 into two people - and they aren't talking.

They continue to gabble over each other. Just a few minutes after wondering if feminism has drained women's will to reproduce and "lost us Europe", he tells me that his forthcoming novel - The Pregnant Widow - is a celebration of the sexual revolution and feminism. "I am a gynocrat," he says. "I think the world would be better if women ruled it." Feminism today is only in "its second trimester", he adds, and when it reaches delivery it will make the world an even better place.

And beneath the sound of ideologies clashing inside him, I can still trace remnants of Amis's left-wing late youth. He continues to advocate nuclear disarmament, saying that the existing nuclear powers should immediately begin working towards "the zero option". He is proud to have opposed the Iraq War, where he says "we have created a fresh kind of Hell".

As I stumble out into the Primrose Hill drizzle, I feel like I have been watching a boxing match in Amis's brain. He waves goodbye and shuts the door. I stand at the gate, wondering if the Steyn-hugging round-'em-up impulses will deliver a knock-out blow to the other Martin: the nuclear-disarming multiracialist who remembers his Muslim girlfriends with a sweet smile. I hope not. If the fantasies prevail, one of our best novelists will disappear, raving, into the long Eurabian night.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 02:31:56 PM EST
Good grief, it's appalling. I hadn't realized how far the rot had gone in Amis's mind. He's championing fucking Mark Steyn, for goodness' sake. Eurabia, so-called "Muslim" birth rates as against "white" birth rates... Has feminism killed our civilisation by allowing women not to have baby after baby? Aarrgghh!

But people like Amis (and Hitchens) are above all stylists, as Hari surmises. Perfectly-marshalled pugnacious prose with a fucked-up upper-class English mind behind it. Time goes by and the atavism shows.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
from anti-clericalism, which goes back to the enlightenment, to focusing specifically on the religions and superstitions of those who one views as ethnically or racially beneath them.
by wu ming on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:35:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by wu ming on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:35:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
After being told that being miserable is a symptom of being British (hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way) even if it did turn out to be some Onion-type hoax I now learn that feeling downright miserable most of the time is because of my age.

Happiness is being young or old, but middle age is misery

People are most likely to become depressed in middle age, according to a worldwide study of happiness. The team of economists leading the work found that we are happiest towards the beginning and end of our lives, leaving us most miserable in middle years between 40 and 50.

bugger eh ? British and middle aged. I'm stuffed.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:04:35 PM EST
The team of economists leading the work

Now economists do sociology and psychology too?  I´ll wait for friedman to write the horrorscopes.

Don´t let the turkeys get you down!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Poor bloody economists, scorned for a narrow vision of what life is all about, when some try looking at such important things as happiness - they get jeered at for stepping outside their academic niche. It only says they "led" it, and it seems to have involved collating lots of surveys done by others, so not really outside their competence, and evidently the academic journal judged that it was worth publishing:

The results, published in the journal Social Science & Medicine, showed that people's levels of happiness followed a U-shaped curve, a pattern that was remarkably consistent in the vast majority of countries the researchers looked at, from Azerbaijan to Zimbabwe.

...

Andrew Oswald, from the University of Warwick, and David Blanchflower, from Dartmouth College in the US, led a study of more than 2 million people from 80 countries to find if happiness was related to age.



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:06:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Note this bit:

Perhaps realising that such feelings are completely normal in mid-life might even help individuals survive this phase better.

Hold on, good times are coming - if you last that long - maybe cut down on the beer :-) As for the British part -   that IS a problem - but moving abroad can help.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:57:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Might be worse. You could be between 50 and 60 and a bloke.

Every cloud has a silver lining...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:08:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm gonna be between 50 & 60 soon (less than 4 months) so apparently things will get much worse very soon.

Great.

And I'm entirely too contaminated with blokishness to feel smug on that score.

Darn, where's that Exit website ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happiness is being young or old, but middle age is misery | Science | The Guardian
For both men and women in the UK, the probability of depression peaked at around the age of 44.

So when I go in to see my employer about being off work due to anxiety, the fact that I'm 44 should be reason enough?

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, the sentence does have the word "probability" in it.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Arizona Air Guard to watch over Super Bowl
1/29/2008 - TUCSON, Ariz. (AFPN) -- Pilots assigned to the 162nd Fighter Wing's Alert Detachment at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz., will fly air patrols and air defense deterrence missions in support of the Super Bowl XLII Feb. 3 in Glendale, Ariz. 

Arizona's Air Guardsmen are teaming up with the North American Aerospace Defense Command in a consolidated effort with federal, state and local agencies to provide security for the National Football League's championship game held at 73,719-seat University of Phoenix Stadium.

WTF one can do with a state of the art fighterplane like this F-16 to 'protect' a sports evenement?

Shooting flying soccers?      


An F-16 Fighting Falcon sits ready to deploy at a moment's notice at the 162nd Fighter Wing's Alert Detachment at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz. Arizona Air National Guardsmen from Tucson will fly this aircraft and others to secure the airspace over Super Bowl XLII.  


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:13:00 PM EST
Aerial threats aren't out of the question - load up a small-ish private craft with a fertilizer bomb, fly it into the stadium, potentially kill several thousand people. In terms of the overall security investment in the event I think the aerial stuff is pretty low on the pole and mostly for show.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:26:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
MillMan:
load up a small-ish private craft with a fertilizer bomb,

Come one, get real. In that case you would need an adapted plane to release a bomb or in case of a suicide bomber a plane whit a shit-load of fertilizer - a Cessna wouldn't do it-: and all of this unnoticed ?
Government propaganda at work...

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or just crash a cessna loaded with its own fuel. The death toll would not be low. The authorities would be none the wiser. For what amounts to a small expenditure to fly an F-16 in a loop for a few hours, I could care less that they're doing this.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, those F-16's will fly anyway: pilots have to fly their quota to maintain operational level.

A Cessna with a top-loaded fuel will cause more death in the following panic-rush than on impact. I once witnessed a small plane crash in a crowd and for Belgium 10 casualties in one accident is huge, but if 'terrorists' wonna make a statement they will not use a Cessna or Piper.

Security doesn't come from F-16's.
Something else is seriously rotten, when are the USA gonna spend their money (if there's any left) in the right place?  

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:29:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll quote my original reply.

In terms of the overall security investment in the event I think the aerial stuff is pretty low on the pole and mostly for show.


you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, sorry, got a bit to excited....

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:07:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
accidentally crashing a fully armed fighter jet into the crowd because of a plane malfunction.
by wu ming on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:37:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Advertising blimps make good target practice.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:57:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the directorship position at the local University Press here didn't work out for me, so plan A is back on.

If anyone has a lead on finance positions in France, please forward me the leads...(currently a financial director in a small PE firm in the US, 15 years experience, dual US/France national, blah blah blah...)

Let's Go Red Wings!

by redstar on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:18:15 PM EST
BBC NEWS | Business | IMF lowers global growth forecast

he International Monetary Fund (IMF) has lowered its forecast for global economic growth this year.

But the revised predictions are still well short of being a global recession. The IMF's chief economist calls it a significant global slowdown.

For the major developed economies, the IMF predicts continued, but much weaker, growth this year.

The new forecast for global economic growth this year is 4.1%, after nearly 5% last year.



Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 03:22:43 PM EST
Have you been missing me a bit?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:27:15 PM EST
Hello, Jerome, and welcome to ET!

(But why are you asking if you've been missed?)

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:32:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm nice.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well of course you are, and of course you're not a sockputtet, whatever that is.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeróme...We all know you've been busy with all that Societe General stuff.... and now do not pretend you finance windmills or something, we all know what you do now...ha! we do not eat our thumbs... :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 06:52:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anne Applebaum piece in slate: Where Did All Those Gorgeous Russians Come From?

Short Applebaum: capitalism makes people prettier and allows the pretty to rise to their deserved fortune.

And there she could very well be talking about things that matter, like, say, love.

(yes, this is indeed a veiled request for pics of communist era babes)

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:38:53 PM EST

Fraulein Irma Bunt

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She's a wessi!
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:06:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh but definitely communist era and what a babe!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Annie's got a small problem with her theory.  How does she explain why Capitalism hasn't made her prettier?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:56:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some it gifts with beauty, others with brains.

No?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 04:59:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And Anne?  Sorry.  I really have an irrational dislike of her.  I'm sure she's fine looking and not a moron.  She's just a brat.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know what she looks like, to be honest. But her brains are a pile of shit.

I'm not going to read her Randian crap, I've had enough for one night with Martin Amis backing Mark Steyn.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe she has a mid-life crisis.

NYT: WEDDINGS; Anne Applebaum, Radek Sikorski

Published: June 28, 1992

Anne Elizabeth Applebaum, a daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Harvey M. Applebaum of Washington was married there yesterday to Radek Sikorski, the son of Mr. and Mrs. Jan Sikorski of Dwor Chobielin, Poland. Judge Theodore Tannenwald, a senior judge of the United States Tax Court in the District of Columbia, performed the ceremony at the home of the bride's parents.

Mrs. Sikorski, 27 years old, is an editor at The Economist in London. She graduated summa cum laude from Yale University, where she was elected to Phi Beta Kappa, and received a master's degree in international relations from the London School of Economics. Her father is a partner in the Washington law firm of Covington & Burling. Her mother, Elizabeth Applebaum, is a program coordinator at the Corcoran Gallery of Art.

Mr. Sikorski, 29, is a freelance journalist in London. He graduated from Oxford University. His parents are architects in Poland.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:14:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anne Applebaum just recently started meeting Russians, right?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 04:55:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
She's just blind, is all. There's no exploitation in Anne Applebaum's rosy capitalist world, same as there were no sexy women under communism.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Jan 30th, 2008 at 06:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I want you to know that I've just be called a "run-of-the-mill, intolerant European socialist" by a US college professor who takes exception to my claim that one can get free higher education, universal health care, child care, generous unemployment and retirement benefits in various degrees in parts of the EU.

Some how this also impinges on the first amendment, but I'm not sure what the connection is.

I wear my new title with pride...
 

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:13:34 PM EST
Well done you!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That merits an afew award. I love the idea that questioning the New American Century makes you intolerant.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:23:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank him for the compliment :-) "Run-of-the-mill" - millions agree with you. "European socialist" - a fine tradition which is largely responsible for the obvious advantages enjoyed by Europeans which you pointed out. "Intolerant" - absolutely, most Europeans wouldn't tolerate the poverty, especially as it affects children and lack of a decent medical system for all, in a society which gives tax breaks to billionaires.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 05:59:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How the feds stopped the states from averting the lending mess. - By Nicholas Bagley - Slate Magazine
Crashing the Subprime PartyHow the feds stopped the states from averting the lending mess.By Nicholas Bagley
Posted Thursday, Jan. 24, 2008, at 11:19 PM ET

As the federal government scurries to prevent the subprime mortgage crisis from sending the economy into a deep recession, many of us are asking why it waited so long to intervene. As it turns out, the government wasn't exactly sitting on its hands. Instead, for reasons that now appear hopelessly shortsighted, an obscure federal agency torpedoed legislation from a handful of states that would have made institutional investors far charier of buying mortgage loans that were likely to go belly-up. If the legislation had been permitted to go into effect, the crisis we now face would probably look a lot less grim. The right question, then, is not why the feds did so little. It's why they did so much.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jan 29th, 2008 at 06:51:49 PM EST


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