European Tribune

Friday Open Thread (now with poll)

by Jerome a Paris
Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 09:22:11 AM EST


[editor's note, by Migeru] Poll added after discussing the answer with Colman...
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Poll
I estimate the chance of a depression at
. Less than 10% 2%
. Between 10% and 25% 9%
. Between 25% and 50% 27%
. Between 50% and 75% 29%
. Between 75% and 90% 15%
. Over 90% 15%

Votes: 44
Results | Other Polls
Display:
Stop the presses!

This news just in

Wales: The makers of Marmite said it was "disappointing" a council has decided to impose a ban on the spread at their school breakfast clubs.
Ceredigion Council in Mid Wales has taken Unilever's yeast extract product off the menu at its 51 breakfast clubs within the county because of a "high level of salt".

Defenestration, deforestation, and now this....<sob> I can't go on.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 09:40:40 AM EST
Damn can't vote the philistines out any more, although will have to email one of the ceredigion councilors and give him grief

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 09:43:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Demarmitation!!!

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:16:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've tried the Massive Marmitization of Finland, but so far only two converts - my daughters. Marmitization has to take place at a very formative stage of behavioural development to be successful.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:30:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
so a 300% rise in a single generation, the nation will be converts in no time at all.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:32:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In ordinary times, an insight like that would have been enough to qualify you as a professional economic pundit.

[nostalgic sigh...]

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 07:23:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sure enough of my opinions  would be considered dangerously left wing, so that that could never be the case.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 07:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was then.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 08:59:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've seen good success from using vegemite as a gateway drug...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:51:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you've been hanging round school gates as an evil marmite dealer again havent you. ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:07:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I shudder to think what the baptism ceremony looks like.

Yuk.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:16:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Theres a rumour that the Global markets are about to cease trading
.

from Sky news.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 09:44:13 AM EST
Paul Krugman - Op-Ed Columnist - New York Times Blog

And his opening comment this morning is a shocker. After describing some of the weird action in Treasuries, he says:

Is this the beginning of the end for the dollar and the Treasury market? Is this the first sign of the bursting of the bubble in Treasury securities? That market, in a sense, represents the ultimate bubble as it exists at the whim and caprice of foreign investors, who have as participants in a Faustian bargain, financed our war(s) and our lifestyle so generously over the last decade. Maybe even that bizarre construct is crashing about us as we speak.

Maybe I should be drinking something a bit more ... calming .. than coffee right now.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 09:55:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On a separate note, one good thing is that there haven't been any reports of people on Wall Street jumping out of windows. That's because the windows in modern office buildings don't open.
At least window makers think long term.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:01:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm going for my walk and shoul be back within 1.5 hrs.

Who wants to blow today off and get rip-roaring drunk while blogging here at ET?

Will be back later to see who wants to participate.

Ah,a GRAND start to the New World Order!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:03:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
GCW diaries in the offing?

I'm going to see an improvised musical tonight, and then will pop in to hear new triphop band ELK late night.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:08:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's no point deciding to leave the world when the world has already left on it's own.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:48:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Awesome.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:17:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Driver!  MOVE.THAT.BUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:45:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Radical Measures May Be In The Wings

As the financial crisis threatens to spiral out of control, it's more likely Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will take extraordinary steps through the extensive authority granted to him under emergency rescue legislation, say analysts.

With the legislation's main mechanism--an auction system to purchase bad mortgage-based securities--still weeks away from implementation, Paulson may have to inject capital into any number of financial institutions--even non-depository ones like investment banks, insurers and hedge funds.

"I don't wish to spread alarm on the line people but the big issue confronting the market is I'm afraid the health and sustainability of Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs," Hugh Hendry, Partner and CIO at Eclectica, told CNBC. "It is unimaginable that they can be allowed to go, I suspect that they will nationalized at some point today or over the weekend," he add.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:24:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't wish to spread alarm on the line people but the big issue confronting the market is I'm afraid the health and sustainability of Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs

Um, that has been the case since September 17. On September 18, Paulson's plan was announced. On September 19 (Friday)  the market had a historic rally. It lost all of if over the next week.


A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:26:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Oct. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Morgan Stanley dropped for a fifth day after Moody's Investors Service said it may reduce the U.S. investment bank's credit rating on concern the financial crisis threatens earnings and investor confidence.

Morgan Stanley fell as much as 30 percent in New York trading after sinking 26 percent yesterday to the lowest level since 1996. Moody's put Morgan Stanley's A1 long-term rating on review for a possible downgrade and lowered its outlook for Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s Aa3 long-term rating to negative. Goldman shares also sank today.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:36:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Didn't we have a comment with some figures that implied JPM was a vital point of failure in the CDS market?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:52:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
here.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:56:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Parachute doré" (golden parachute), by Alain Souchon.



"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:02:29 AM EST
Here is my botched translation:

"Adieu mégaphones, adieux calicots, adieu représentants syndicaux! A moi le soleil et le calypso, la nana et la noix de coco. A moi les alizés, les vents tropicaux"."Farewell megaphones, farewell banners, farewell union representatives! To me the sun and the calypso, the girl and the coconut. To me the trade winds, the tropical winds,"
"En Chine l'usine on délocalise. (...) La boîte a coulé mais pouce! On va se la couler douce (...). La pilule on va se la dorer, j'ai le parachute doré!""In China the plant is relocated. (...) the firm sank, but pax! We'll have it easy (...). The pill we'll have it gilded, I have a golden parachute!"


"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:19:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Finnish Property company Interavanti is up 76% (16.46) in the OMXH!!

Something strange is going on.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:04:38 AM EST
Actually only 500 shares were traded ;-)

Finland is very very small....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:10:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They say here that Finland is pretty safe...best in Europe...
by vbo on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:17:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only because everyone knows everyone else - though that didn't stop Iceland from collapsing ;-)

The Finns are not really city people, their hearts are in the common sense of the forest.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:23:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So What is George going to say?

time to suspend the election because the markets are obviously threatend by the thoughts of a democrat taking office? ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:12:27 AM EST
Well that was a real non-speach, nothing really new, apart from threats for people taking advantage illegaly. so prepare for everything to fall again.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:34:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some positive numbers... well, he could have said so...

U.S. Aug. trade gap narrows as global economy stalls - MarketWatch

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- The U.S. trade deficit narrowed in August, as consumers curbed their spending on imported goods, a government report showed Friday. The nation's trade deficit narrowed by 3.5% to $59.1 billion, the Commerce Department said. Overall imports were down 2.4% for the month. Imports of autos fell to their lowest level since March 2005. Read the full release. If imports continue to fall, this will be a technical boost to U.S. gross domestic product. But observers say there's no doubt that the economy has now entered recession as the credit crunch has hit already-weakened consumer and business sectors. At the same time, exports dropped by 2.0% in August, marking the biggest decline since June 2004. The decrease came even as exports from Boeing Co. rose.


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:44:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Today Australian government came out with guaranty of deposits up to $20000.Up to this day I had trust in Australian banks but now I think very seriously I should go on Monday and take my money out ( if I still can).I have a feeling I am not going to be the only one...
by vbo on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:19:03 AM EST
If you have less than 20K australian, then don't.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:25:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven, I would not believe Australian (or any other) government at this stage.This is warning sign for me.Red light just started to blink with this statement today.If on Monday I can't get ALL my money at once that will be panic alarm...We'll see.My instinct saved me once in Serbia...
by vbo on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:00:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by whataboutbob on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:38:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can't eat gold. Maybe dried beans and grains along with some canned food.
by Magnifico on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
would appreciate hearing your take on all this going on today (and this weekend), at some point...

At least I'm practically broke now, and only (still) owe a student loan...so its not so far down ;))

Half the population is under the age of 18. Tanzania's future is NOW...join the 50% campaign!

by whataboutbob on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 11:40:04 AM EST
Hark!  A request for:

[Jerome's We're All Gonna Die Technology]

(I would color that something other than black but the last time I did that I broke the internets.)

:-)


Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 03:20:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and you don't think Black is the apropriate colour for a statement like that?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 04:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Former Finnish President Ahtisaari Wins Nobel Peace Prize | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 10.10.2008
Former Finnish President Martti Ahtisaari, 71, on Friday crowned a distinguished career as a diplomat, statesman and peace broker by winning this year's Nobel Peace Prize.

The former Finnish president has been involved in numerous missions aimed at solving international conflicts, ranging from Northern Ireland to the Indonesian province of Aceh as well as the Serbian province of Kosovo.

His breakthrough as a mediator came in Namibia, which achieved independence in 1990, capping years of work by the Finnish national who served as special representative to the United Nations secretary general and head of the UN's transition assistance team.

Ahtisaari and his wife, Eeva, were made honorary citizens of the southern African nation.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:04:37 PM EST
The Guardian: Singapore slides into recession

Singapore officially slid into recession today after falling consumer demand from the US and Europe hammered its manufacturing exports.

The south-east Asian country's economy contracted by 6.3% in the third quarter, on an annualised seasonally adjusted basis, having shrunk by 5.7% in the second quarter of 2008. This forced the government to cut its growth forecast for this year from 4%-5% to 3%. Analysts had expected a small rise in GDP...

Prime minister Lee Hsien Loong said Asian economies faced slowing growth for at least the next year and will not be spared in this global crisis.

"The problems facing financial institutions in the US and Europe are complex and grave," he said in a speech. "Asian countries cannot avoid the impact of weakening US, European and Japanese economies."

by Magnifico on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:27:35 PM EST
My girlfriend has just gone to look at her bank account to find that theres a splash page to say all her savings are safe there suddenly.

What she wants to know is should she take her £4.50 of savings out of them as the sudden appearance of the spalsh page has her worried.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:37:55 PM EST

You can tell her it's Emilio Botín she's banking with...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 04:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is going to get very ugly, and I wouldn't rule out violence at the rate McCain and Palin are going.  And now the lynch-mob mentality is spilling over into down-ticket contests.  From last night Georgia Senate race debate between Martin and Chambliss:

Thursday's debate took place in front of a highly partisan crowd in the GOP stronghold of Middle Georgia.

Chambliss supporters waved "Saxby" signs and offered up a sustained "boos" when Martin mentioned Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama.

"Bomb Obama," one woman hollered.

Wow.

Fortunately, Obama is surging in the polls again, perhaps as a backlash against these insane rallies.  Unfortunately, that's probably just going to make them more insane.

And this stuff isn't making the nightly news -- why, exactly?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:51:42 PM EST
Well, to be fair, I wouldn't like to be the producer who put someone shouting "bomb Obama" on TV if the publicity then encouraged them to actually go and try it...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They don't need encouragement.  Better to put it on the air and destroy McCain for allowing it -- even assisting it -- to get so out of control.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems to be my day to quote Krugman all day.

Paul Krugman - Op-Ed Columnist - New York Times Blog

The crisis isn't the only scary thing going on. Something very ugly is taking shape on the political scene: as McCain's chances fade, the crowds at his rallies are, by all accounts, increasingly gripped by insane rage.

We've seen this before.

...

What it came down to was that a significant fraction of the American population, backed by a lot of money and political influence, simply does not consider government by liberals (even very moderate liberals) legitimate. Ronald Reagan was supposed to have settled that once and for all.

What happens when Obama is elected? It will be even worse than it was in the Clinton years. For sure there will be crazy accusations, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some violence.

The next few years are going to be very, very tough.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 03:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(See my comment below in answer to MarketTrustee, too.)

The Right Wing Hate Groups are seeing their numbers and influence dwindle at the same time their economic situation is deteriorating.  Iraq is teaching a generation war is the normal activity of life -- just like the Black & Tans in Ireland and the Free Corps in the Baltic after World War One.  When these two groups unite, it's going to get ugly.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 03:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. And, so what? US liberals lived in the same country with these madmen, they should know them, they should have expected such post-election behaviour at the very start of the campaign already -- they should be prepared, not scared.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By prepared, I don't mean nice words about Change, peace and tolerance, but an intent and plan to dismantle the right-wing hate machine.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There isn't any organized Left in the US.  The Democratic Party is as good as it gets.  

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 08:23:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
dodo
US liberals lived in the same country with these madmen, they should know them, they should have expected such post-election behaviour at the very start of the campaign already -- they should be prepared, not scared.

ATinNM
There isn't any organized Left in the US.
Then the Obama Administration will have to do.  Any post election violence better get both Obama and Biden if any RW plotters are to succeed.  Violence that failed to achieve that result could be a gift, like McVie and Oklahoma City under Clinton.  A good 70% of the country will be appalled.  The full might and power of the state, including the augmented powers obtained by B 43, should be brought to bear against anyone associated in any way with such an act.  Deprive them of liberty and property while simultaneously pointing out those things that are being done that are only possible because of the additional accretion of power to the government under B 43.

They should be very careful to proceed against the core group according to law and statute effective prior to B 43 and then use this as an object lesson why it is extremely unwise to leave such power in the hands of government.  Then push a constitutional amendment through Congress and the state legislatures that re-balances the liberties of the people vs. the powers of the government.  

Such a "teaching moment" could greatly enhance the authority and stature of Obama and restore the intended balance of power in the Constitution to our Government. With convictions in hand, clemency and or commutations of sentence could be considered on an individual basis.  Magnanimity in such a victory would cement Obama's authority and further empower him to make other needed changes.  In such a fashion we might regain a credible left in the USA.  Just call it the new center.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 09:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agree with you; but I'd rather do without the 168 men, women and small children who died under the rubble of theAlfred P. Murrah Federal Building or the people who died in Atlanta, or the postal workers (mostly African-Americans) who died of anthrax.

I'll be convinced when I see at least as much resources put on domestic terrorism as on the Middle-Eastern variety (not that I'm holding my breath).

Oh, and also look at the financial circuit: the money has to come from somewhere. States who are serious against organized crime do just that: they follow the money and go to the throat.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 06:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If it only got one of them, it wouldn't be a gift.  I don't want to see people get killed for their political leanings -- yes, even Bush and his lot who I so despise.  This country has an awful history of political violence, and we need to not revisit that in the modern day.  Obama getting killed would, in many ways, set this country back decades, socially.

Fortunately, like I said, I don't think Obama's going to get killed.  Most of the crazies are either going to turn their sights on each other after the election or see that Obama, as president, is not some kind of scary Manchurian candidate.  Plus, most of the assassinations in the 20th Century we're familiar with happened to people who didn't have Secret Service protection.  JFK did, but he was also killed while riding in a convertible out in the open in Dallas with plenty of places for a shooter to hide.

If he'd had proper protection, RFK would not likely have been killed that night in Los Angeles.  It was because of his assassination that the Secret Service was authorized to protect presidential candidates before they became nominees or presidents.

Reagan was nearly killed, but at the same time his would-be assassin would probably never have gotten that close in 2008, since presidents generally only get that close to the public under tightly-controlled circumstances these days.

And I certainly don't think Biden's going to get killed.  Nobody really hates him.  Even the wingers respect Biden as being a legitimate adversary, probably because such a large chunk of the country -- definitely anyone who is a political junkie -- has known Biden forever.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 10:39:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I too would prefer that we take our chances on the pace of reform, if any, than that progress be purchased with human lives sacrificed to political violence.  Collectively, we have quite enough blood on our hands already.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 04:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's the Republicans who are scared.  They've slipped from roughly a tie to being down 8-10 points in the presidential.  They're slipping in every Senate race (we could win up to 12 if things got really fun).  They're on the verge of coughing up another 30-40 House seats, which would be crushing.

Three weeks ago, they thought they were going to win.  Now, suddenly, they're getting beat like a rented mule.  The worse the beating, the more they'll lash out.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not afraid of those Repub/conservative pussies.

Guns?  Bah.  Piss off a talented chemist/biochemist ... see what you get!

Fuck em!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:56:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's okay.  Caribou Barbie's going to be dropping the puck at a Philadelphia Flyers game apparently.

These are the fans who booed and threw shit at Santa Claus.  It could be truly awesome.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds interesting. Please, keep us posted.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 06:11:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just like the gay marriage ruling in Massachusetts, Obama's election will drive the poles of the culture war even further apart.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:05:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a challenge to recount the violence perpetrated by the state in order to "contain" political opposition, no matter how innocuous, to its developing calumny. It's even easier to sieze an MSM factotum of electoral theater in order to foment dramatic tension. Such people are everywhere in mainstream media. Many have already published books.

Tell us more about the "Change we need" that is denoument. Say, Obama/Biden is elected. How will you adapt to the conclusion of the tale?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 03:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In all seriousness, I expect Obama to win the election and be assassinated during his first term.  And the beat goes on.  There is no conclusion.  There are only reference points we call an ending.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 03:26:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't expect him to be assassinated, although I do expect attempts will be made.  They already have, I'd guess.

God help us all if he does get killed.  I'll be joining you out West in that case.

What concerns me is this is the same shit that was done to MLK and Bobby Kennedy in the '60s.  Stoke hatred, call them traitors/communists/radicals/terrorists, and thus dehumanize them and provide the psychological cover for the wackos, allowing them to believe they're doing it to "save the country" or something.

I expect, however, they're going to set their sights on each other after this election.  You can already see that brewing when you read the words of people like George Will and David Brooks.  Thing is, I don't think they're going to win the battle for the soul of their party.  And the people they'll be up against will be the truly insane.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We can always use another intelligent person with good sense.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:59:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As Lawrence O'Donnell and Howard Fineman predicted, McCain is walking it back now, telling psychotic supporters that Obama is "a decent person," a "decent family man," and that they "do not have to be scared of him as President of the United States."

I'm sure that has nothing to do with the massive backlash that hit among the talking heads during the afternoon, or with the fact that McCain seems to be tanking so badly in the polls that Caribou Barbie is being sent to defend West Virginia with rallies.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 07:30:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
U.S. Has No Plan to Close Its Financial Markets (Update1)

By Holly Rosenkrantz

Oct. 10 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. has no plans to close its financial markets, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said.

``There are absolutely no plans or discussions to interfere with the functioning of markets in the United States,'' Fratto said in an e-mailed response to a question.

Fratto was responding to comments today from Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, who said that governments may shut financial markets as the credit freeze pummels stocks and threatens a global recession.

Everybody feel better now?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:58:21 PM EST
Never believe anything until it is officially denied. - Yes Minister
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I trust the words coming out of Berlusconi's mouth less than I do Bush.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:02:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Op-Ed Columnist - The Class War Before Palin - NYTimes.com
Modern conservatism began as a movement of dissident intellectuals. Richard Weaver wrote a book called, "Ideas Have Consequences." Russell Kirk placed Edmund Burke in an American context. William F. Buckley famously said he'd rather be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the faculty of Harvard. But he didn't believe those were the only two options. His entire life was a celebration of urbane values, sophistication and the rigorous and constant application of intellect.

Driven by a need to engage elite opinion, conservatives tried to build an intellectual counterestablishment with think tanks and magazines. They disdained the ideas of the liberal professoriate, but they did not disdain the idea of a cultivated mind.

But over the past few decades, the Republican Party has driven away people who live in cities, in highly educated regions and on the coasts. This expulsion has had many causes. But the big one is this: Republican political tacticians decided to mobilize their coalition with a form of social class warfare. Democrats kept nominating coastal pointy-heads like Michael Dukakis so Republicans attacked coastal pointy-heads.

What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. The liberals had coastal condescension, so the conservatives developed their own anti-elitism, with mirror-image categories and mirror-image resentments, but with the same corrosive effect.

Republicans developed their own leadership style. If Democratic leaders prized deliberation and self-examination, then Republicans would govern from the gut.

And so, politically, the G.O.P. is squeezed at both ends. The party is losing the working class by sins of omission -- because it has not developed policies to address economic anxiety. It has lost the educated class by sins of commission -- by telling members of that class to go away.


Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:01:18 PM EST
I think I'm going to do a personal media blackout this weekend. I cashed in my casino winnings this morning, so there is no reason to follow the market. I'm down to four hours of sleep per night due to nervous excitement about my trip (leaving in 24 days) - that combined with a dose of near total economic uncertainty has made my brain mush.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 02:17:25 PM EST
Very wise, I'm feeling that the constant drip feed of random economic uncertainty isn't doing much for my mood recently.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 02:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm with you and MillMan.

The power of the WHEEEEE mantra wears off distressingly quickly.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 02:35:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
[Jerome's WEEEEEE™ Technology]

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 03:59:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
[Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:40:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, but what news will Monday bring?  What world will we wake to?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 06:12:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It will still have people, animals and tangible things in it.

If the people wake up and realise that the financial world was never more than dreams, shadows and wishful thinking, I wouldn't necessarily see that as a bad thing.

Minimal collateral damage between here and there would be a good thing, of course.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 07:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Simply the fact that this phrase is now part of our lexicon shows how far we've fallen.  Imagine what the anthros will write in a hundred years.

I stand on using the meltdown as a cathartic purge, that we bring the true meaning of the word vision back into daily practice.  

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 08:00:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A certain level of Brit snarkiness may possibly have not come across there.

Vision is good. We've been twitching inside collective nightmares for far too long now.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 08:44:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Palin report will be made public

Legislators in Alaska have agreed to release a politically sensitive report on allegations that Sarah Palin abused her power as the state's governor.

She is accused of firing Alaska's top law enforcement official for refusing to sack a state trooper who was in a bitter custody battle with her sister.

Mrs Palin, who is John McCain's running mate, denies any improper behaviour.

And Alaskan state Senator Gary Stevens, a Republican, said there were "some problems" with the report.

"I would encourage people to be very cautious, to look at this with a jaundiced eye," said Senator Stevens, after it was announced the report would be released.

page 47, finding number one "Govenor Palin abused her power"

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 08:30:23 PM EST
The BBC's pro-R spin really is getting tedious. I suppose it's 'balanced' to quote a long time shrimp-weight mafioso wannabe like Stevens as if he's a credible source.

I don't suppose the report will do a lot more than swing anothe point or two in the Obama direction. The kooks on the right see abuse of power as a good thing and not a bad one, and they'll also be outraged that anyone would dare to try to enforce a law when it's not in their favour.

What do you with a country when a third of its population is pathological? (And not just the US, of course.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 08:49:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you with a country when a third of its population is pathological?
See that they go back on their Thorazine and increase the dose and drool.  My suggestions above to dodo and ATinNM should suffice.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 09:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
had some kind of "disease" (viral, bacterial, etc.) which threatened the entire species/planet, what would you do then?  Let the entire species go down with the ship out of political correctness?  Where is the Communist Party in America today?  Why isn't one of its representatives never seen on current American ballets?  If aliens came from space and were threatening the entire human species, what would you do?  Mill around like cattle, waiting for the hammer to fall?

Need any more analogies?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:26:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You lead if you want to - we'll be doing something different.

ET doesn't exist to incite violence in any form. There's quite enough of that elsewhere already.

Just thought I'd make that clear.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:34:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What a curious word.  I have chickens frozen in my freezer.  I defrost/microwave one every 2 weeks.  I feed tuna/chicken to the cat I live with.  I have loads of carrots I intend to consume in the veggie bin in my refrig?

Acts of violence or acts of survival?  

Will be interesting to see how the ET attitude evolves as the hunger pangs develop.  

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:42:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
McCain can't afford a swing of a point or two in Obama's direction.

As it is, the current narrative in the press is, "It's over, but we just aren't allowed to say so yet because it's impolite since people haven't voted."  Obama's moving fast towards a double-digit lead with everyone except -- who else? -- Zogby in the polls (+7 Ras, +10 Hotline, +12 Kos, +10 Gallup, +11 Newsweek).  And he's now consistently hitting 51/52, while McCain is still sinking on the trends.  43 always felt like his pre-undecideds-breaking sweet spot to me.  Maybe 44.  But he's down to 41/42 and still falling.  Among registered voters, Hotline's got him falling to 39.

If this keeps up, the narrative is going to turn into, "Should the Reps cut off McCain and Palin to save their House and Senate seats?"

The debate, the stock market crash and the backlash seem to be giving Obama an extra bump.  Like AT said (I think) last week, it's turning from a strong win into a slaughter.  My guess is that another couple days of this will put Georgia and West Virginia in the "Competitive" category, if they're not there already.

Maybe McCain gets it.  It would explain his bizarre choice of places to appear.  He keeps campaigning in Iowa, even though the closest he been to Obama in forever is 8 or 9 points, and every recent poll has him losing by 10-15 there.  He's not even bothering in North Carolina or Florida anymore.  The RNC, which basically is the McCain campaign here, seems to have pulled out of Virginia.  Three states he can't lose.

Either he's praying for a new, supercharged Bradley Effect that magically saves the red states or he's on the verge of giving up.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Unlawfully.  Key word.  She broke the law.

Time for Sarah to go back to fish-picking and hockey-momming and whatever the hell else they do in Alaska.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 10:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well... they grow giant vegetables. pumpkins, hot peppers.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 04:52:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
She'll be back.  She's the new face of the Republicans.  Wonder how Newt Ging/Tom Delay are feeling knowing that they are defunct?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:28:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm pretty sure she'll be back in 2012 if she and Shithead lose, but I doubt she'd be the nominee.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:30:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The times they are a changin' and Americans tend to have short memories.

Good to hear from you again.  Have to go buy myself a new pair of walking shoes.  Blew out my current pair with all of these trips to the Sac State campus.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:45:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Guess we just saw our October Surprise by the courtesy of well-vetted Palin.  ;-)

As to the Presidential race: Game Over.  The McCain campaign has officially exploded.  If Palin is on the ticket they lose everybody who isn't a wingnut and lose.  If Palin is replaced they lose the wingnuts and lose.  

Rumor going around the Republican National Committee (RNC) is going to yank funding from McCain and put it into Senate and House races, trying to salvage something to stave off a debacle.  (And it is starting to look like one.)

I'm thinking the total GOP vote goes below 2000 (50.4 million) - as the Moderate Republicans sit this one out and the Undecideds and loosely-attached jump to Obama - while the Democratic vote is more than 2004 (59 million & change) to about 62 to 63 million.  IF this happens AND the votes are more-or-less evenly distributed the GOP is hosed.  In the last redistricting the GOP gerrymandered to the max assuming the vote distribution would remain constant.  A shift of 3% could easily flip 50 - 70 house seats.

Man oh man.  Hold onto your seats.  This is going to be one wild ride.
 

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 01:10:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well looking round the winger sites they're trying to either sellit as a partisan witch hunt run by the evil agents of Obama, or missing out the first finding and pointing out that on the rest of the findings, she acted within her powers

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 06:01:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which means they're flailing.  It can't be a partisan witch hunt, because most members of the legislative committee are Republicans, and they voted unanimously.  And, while it was within her powers to hire and fire, the report clearly states she unlawfully abused her power.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 10:59:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Have to disagree with you a bit.  It's not over until the votes are counted and the networks project Obama the winner.  It certainly looks like he's going to win (and win big), but we've got a long way to go.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:09:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If the ultra-wealthy want this election, just let a terrorist attack hit within the US in the next 2 weeks.  If they want to dump this sack of shit on Obama/Dems (quite likely), let the Dems have their day, the world goes to hell, starting with food riots, and we will be SAVED by the Repubs; "Remember when we HAD gasoline and food during those great days with Bush, who wasn't appreciated?".

The ultra-wealthy hold all the cards; the rest of this bullshit is just ... bullshit.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 11:35:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As you may have noticed, France has given itself a right wing conservative for president last year. One of its most infamous comment was to relate sexual predator behavior (typically paedophilia) to one's genetics.


According to M.Sarkozy, this person is genetically a sexual predator.

by Xavier in Paris on Sat Oct 11th, 2008 at 09:30:09 AM EST


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