European Tribune

Monday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris
Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 09:41:29 AM EST

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(apart from the stock markets and public debt)


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Forgive the personal note Jerome, but you understand I think. My godson, now my responsibility since the death of his father, has been in the hospital on a morphine drip struggling with a very painful small bowel obstruction all week - ultimately related to his cystic fibrosis. Last night we finally blasted it loose, without surgery.

So what's up is that I have been weeping with joy at the sight of a bucket of shit. I would not have traded it for a bucket of gold.

The experience provides insights into the health care system as well, but those can wait for another day. Today I am happy.

by melvin on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 09:56:24 AM EST
No forgiveness needed. We all join in wishing the little fella well.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 09:59:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Melvin, we can use all the happy news possible. So thank you for sharing, and I am happy for you and your godson. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:10:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Best wishes for your godson.

And it's nice that you can find some humour in the unpleasant week you've just had.

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:49:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Must be the Celt coming out. Laugh at funerals, cry at the sunrise.
by melvin on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:12:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone sent me a link to pictures of the Tokyo Twilight thought others here might apreciate as a distraction from the gloom.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 09:57:36 AM EST
Tokyo is a really awesome city.
by Zwackus on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Stonewall, an LGB advocacy group in the UK, have nominated Julie Bindel for an award for her "feminist" journalism.

Anybody who has read my diaries will know that Bindel is an avowed enemy of the transgendered.

So I wrote the following letter of protest

I am writing to express my considerable distress and dismay that you intend honouring Julie Bindel for her work in feminism when that body of work includes a high profile campaign against the transgendered members of the LGBT community.

I appreciate that, despite transgendered people being at the forefront of the actual Stonewall riots from which you take your name, you consider yourselves as a campaign only for the rights of the LGB portion of the community. Nevertheless your very own publication state the following about transphobia;-

Transphobia is the unrealistic or irrational fear and hatred of transgender people. Like all prejudices, it is based on negative stereotypes and misconceptions that are then used to justify and support hatred, discrimination, harassment, and violence toward people who are transgender.

Transphobic attitudes and beliefs include:-

the belief that trans women are not "real women" because they have been raised and socialised as men

the belief that trans men are not "real men" because they do not have, or were not born with a penis

the belief that transsexual people are actually gay people in denial

the assumption that transgender people are "sick" or that they are psychologically unstable

when a transgender person is excluded from services, activities, discussions or decisions because it is felt that that person doesn't "fit in"

the refusal to recognise or acknowledge the true gender of a trans person and the continual insistence to refer to them by their former name

I would assume from their publication by your organisation that anybody who supports and propagandises such sentiments would not be considered an ally of Stonewall. Yet they are the very distillation of Ms Bindel's written work on the subject. One only has to look on the Guardian website to see a whole series of articles that reflect the transphobic attitudes you describe, let alone her wider works available via google.

This shortlisting alone is insulting and disrespectful of a section of the LGBT community. I hope that you will have the grace to withdraw this invitation and apologise.

I suspect thaey are getting an awful lot of flak about this because within minutes I received in reply the standard response others have already posted

Dear Helena, (sic)

Thank you for your email. (which Stonewall obviously never read cos they got my name wrong)

Julie Bindel was shortlisted for a Stonewall award in recognition of her journalism during the last 12 months which often brings a lesbian perspective into the mainstream press.

The awards nominating panel are not endorsing everything she has ever written. A nomination in any category does not mean that the awards panel agree with all of someone's opinions. Stonewall recognises that some people may disagree with shortlisted nominees.

Regards,

Stonewall

Some people may disagree eh ?? I just wonder how often they'd nominate an obviously homophobic writer for bringing an interesting perspective into the mainstream press.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:07:28 AM EST
Well you do know that Hitler had an interesting perspective on the wearing of Leather, that he often managed to get into the popular press, how about working on a press award for that?

</cynicism>

(ok probably summoned the spirit of Godwin too, I appologise)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:54:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No New Economic Proposal Expected From McCain - NYTimes.com
"At this point I don't think McCain can say anything on the economy that will sound credible," said Bruce Bartlett, a former economic adviser to President Ronald Reagan and President George Bush.

So what's new?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:55:30 AM EST
Bartlett jumped ship on the Reps several months ago to endorse Obama on a blog or in an op/ed or something, so I'm not terribly surprised by that comment.

The ABC/WaPo poll had some big warning signs for McCain.  About 70% of voters say Obama's addressing the issues rather than attacking McCain.  Only 35% say that about McCain, while 59% say he's attacking rather than talking about issues.

Consequently, McCain was down 10 points in their poll (O53-43M).  The fact that Obama's consistently getting into the 50s, and gradually getting to higher and higher figures, tells us quite a bit.  Prior to a week or two ago, he'd never cleared 51%.  Now he's hitting that routinely and reaching up to 53% in a few polls.

What's McCain going to say on the economy?  He's blown his own face off with that issue, and he's getting beat by 20-30 points on it.  Losing by 30 on health care.  Losing by 30 on the question, "Who understands you problems/the problems of people like you?"

And it's October 13th.  Voters, according to all the strategists, are digging their heels in.  I don't see how McCain can turn it around on his economy numbers.  He has to either figure out a way to distract people or hope that somehow national security becomes the sole focus of the campaign.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:27:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can national insecurity save McCain at this stage?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:33:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A terrorist attack might save McCain.  Beyond that, I just don't see it, honestly.

He's getting slaughtered -- literally by double digits -- in every Kerry state.  One good example: He's losing Michigan by 16 in the last Rasmussen poll (a poll that tends to have a Republican lean).  That was supposed to be his big pick-off state, but he had to tuck his tail between his legs and pull out.

He's trying to play in Pennsylvania, but he's losing by 12-15 points.

Trying to hold Virginia, but losing by 8-12 points.  Trying to hold North Carolina, but losing by 2-6 points (prior to the Wachovia collapse).

He's losing Georgia by double digits in the early voting, because black folks have come roaring into the polling stations at 38% of the electorate.  They're literally lined up for hours in Atlanta.  Obama's even making inroads with ATL's notoriously right-wing suburbs (Bob Barr-Newt Gingrich Country).

Losing Colorado by 10 according to yesterday's PPP poll.  Now, for the record, I'm reluctant to immediately take that result from them as they don't really have a history of polling in the Mountain West (they're great in the Midwest and the least-bad in the South though).  But I have no reason to really doubt it beyond perhaps a slight overstatement of Obama's support (feels like a solid 6- to 8-point lead to me).

Every poll has Obama up in Florida and consistently hitting 50-51%, with margins ranging from small to impressive.  That should never have happened.  How, in an election breaking on age all year, is McCain losing the oldest state in the Union to a black guy with a name that probably strikes most Americans as being "Islamic"?

West Virginia seems to be steadily closing for Obama, even if we throw out the laughable ARG poll that had him ahead.  West Virginia?!  The state with the ex-Klansman for a senator?!

Everybody but Rasmussen has Obama up in Ohio.  Missouri's now a toss-up, but it's probably lean Obama given the wide gap on the ground games.

A new poll out today from Minnesota State University has Obama taking the lead in North Dakota for what I think is the first time ever.  I generally don't trust university polling, and McCain is probably still ahead, but the fact that ND is even close tells you how much trouble McCain is in.

Iowa's gone.  New Mexico's probably gone.  The Kerry states are probably gone.  Virginia's dangerously close to gone.  North Carolina will be gone if the trends keep up for another week or two.

It will take a lot for McCain to get out of the hole.  He's in deep.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:17:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good news out of ATL but have to be careful about getting excited, the early vote  percentages may not reflect the final voting percentages.  Cautious optimism is the best stance, here.  IMO.  :-)

Ed Rollins, GOP strategist, is saying McCain needs "to restart his campaign."  For the 4th time.  21 days out from election day.  With early voting already underway.  

Rollins also said Obama is "a young inexperienced outsider."   Which says to me the GOP doesn't understand - at ALL - what is happening to them.  

Good.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The proportion that is AA will almost undoubtedly fall.  (If it didn't, Obama would win GA in a walk.)  The question is, How much?  If Obama can keep it at or above 31%, he's got a good shot, depending on how the white vote comes down and how Barr performs.  Anything above 35% black share is an Obama win.  Needs 26-30% of the non-black vote if black share is below 35%, I believe.  Doable when you consider that about 7% of the electorate will be Latino, and that Georgia has an unusually high number of young whites.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:50:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm going to tell you like I told MSOC a few weeks ago. Leave the AA vote out of your poll and "Bradley effect" analyses. Period.

There is not enough AAs in America to guarantee a BHO win even allowing for B/D adjustment, new voter registration, and 100% voter turnout. Can you READ? +90% AA vote for BHO is already accounted.

If so, please perform an attitude adjustment in your comments to nag every other non-performing minority class and the undecided in the ethnic majority to transcent their racism.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 03:52:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nate over at FiveThirtyEight concluded the "Bradley Affect" doesn't exist.  

If you would like I'll zip over there and grab the link.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 04:14:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The "Bradley effect" so far as I know is a euphemism for a well-documented statistical error revealed by comparison of product marketing surveys on adoption and actual sales: lying.

In The Marketing Literature, explanations of lying revolve around survey design and repondent (dis)incentives, e.g. financial compensation. IIRC, lying's contribution to confidence intervals is neglible, when sampling protocols and design (e.g. questionnaire language, scalar inputs) are defensible.

The ethical dilemma for political scientists so far as I can see in the case of either Bradley, Obama or any other candidate, is how to explain resulting error or anticipated error as compared to actual returns. That is a discrepancy between prediction and reality of vote administration.

The presence of liars in any sample for political scientists is compounded not so much by opinion survey design, I think, as collection errors in the franchise, e.g. technical discards, abject fraud, reporting accuracy, all of which is controlled. One then might reasonably expect that political sciencists organize, agitate, and litigate secretaries of state to guarantee random (or "free") voters' rights. However such organization, if any, is apparently ineffective, for whatever reason(s). I'll not digress.

I don't remember the explanation(s), given by political scientists or legal authorities, of Bradley's "unexpected" defeat at that time. Let's assume I don't remember, because the predictions of political scientists didn't and don't interest me and at that time I was familiar with Jersey democratic practices and history.

Today I am equally unconcerned by predictions, given by political scientists with respect to Mr Obama's victory or defeat. And I am extremely skeptical of any explanation that depends on and anticipates a (racist) liar distortion of a statistical event which, incidentally, has not occurred. I will vote as I intend to, regardless of political scientists' predictions ... or the final disposition of my ballot for that matter.

Dog, tail, all that.

While I cannot be everywhere at once, I will be an election judge (LOL what a moniker!) to help assure any of my neighbors who want to vote during my watch is able to submit a ballot.

So, no, thank you. I personally am not interested in Nate over at FiveThirtyEight's exegesis on the "Bradley effect". Unless it includes a significant analysis comparing franchise administration, i.e. voting rights. Don't let that stop you though from posting them :)

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 09:25:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't even see the terror attack working in McCain's favor anymore. He's old. Obama looks tough, and isn't exactly a peacenik leftie.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:36:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With Latino's breaking 69% to 26% New Mexico is going Obama, not enough GOP numbers in CD 2 to counter.


Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:05:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It'll be wider than that among Latinos, I think.  Probably more like 73-75% for Obama in the end.  I suspect he'll come close with whites, and the blowout among Latinos will be more than enough to put it away.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well.  Maybe.

I'm hoping the RCC Archbishop up in Santa Fe keeps his damn mouth shut this time.  Convinced he threw NM to Bush in '04 by his pre-election Sunday sermon and the letter he sent to the RCC priests.  

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:00:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm watching Chuck Todd move Missouri to toss-up, West Virginia from "Solid McCain" to "Lean McCain," and asking for polling data from Arkansas.

Now Chuck's usually a little behind the curve, and -- bless his little heart -- he's trying his damnedest to not put Obama over 270 yet.

But Arkansas?  If Todd's right, things have really gone funny, and I'm gonna need to lie down.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:12:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Arkansas?  Huh?

Rasmussen had McCain up 9 in their 9/22 poll.

Wonder what he is hearing.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:23:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if it was 9 on 9/22, it's not inconceivable to think it could've closed to perhaps four or five, I guess, but I suspect AR won't swing with the national movements in the same way that (say) Virginia does.  Sort of the opposite of Michigan, which has swung massively -- more than the nationals.  I suspect it's no closer than 6.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:48:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or maybe Missouri's not a toss-up anymore.  SurveyUSA:

Obama 51
McCain 43

Throw another 11 points on the pile for now.  That gets Obama to 364.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obviously that's MarekNYC's work.  It was slightly McCain, then Marek showed up and turned it around.

:-)

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:46:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's a fun set of figures for ya: 708,823 people have registered to vote in North Carolina between January 1st and October 8th.  Of those, 45.48% are Dems, 22.78% are Reps, and the rest are Indies and Libertarians.

37% were between the ages of 18 and 25.  30% were black (compared with ~20% of the state population per the Census Bureau).

Massive movements.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:05:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hmm quick run through of calculations, if you had 100% turnout on those figures, a 66% obama vote amongst the young and a 90% Obama vote amongst Black voters, (I'm sure I've seen that proportion somewhere) then he's only going to need 17% of the other voters, (Including those non black, non youthful democrats)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:40:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quick and dirty: Obama's going to get 95% of the black vote under the worst-case scenario, I'd guess.  90% is the standard-issue share for a Democrat in the post-Clinton Era.  97% or 98% is not unlikely.

He needs about 35-37% of the white vote in NC to win it in that scenario.  Right now he's running at about 37-39% in pre-Wachovia Collapse polling, and I suspect the number will rise a bit.  At 40%, it's over.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dole is out of money.  She blew through $3 million and is now having to self-finance.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, just read that.

Hi-larious.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:55:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking like a good chance of a 7 seat gain in the Senate, a 'maybe' in Minnesota, and I don't know where the other 2 can come from.  

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:14:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cook just updated the Georgia race to toss-up, which usually means we're a few weeks ahead of that, putting Martin in the lead now.  I kind of think we're going to get that seat.  I still think it's more likely McCain wins Georgia than not, but Obama will get close enough to get Martin what he needs.

I think we're going to get Minnesota.  Three of the last four polls have Franken in the lead, and the mo is with him.

That makes nine.  Need either Mississippi or Kentucky to get to the Lieberman-proof, 60-seat Congress.  Running the table on MS, GA, and KY gets us 61+Holy Joe.

For the first time, I'm starting to think we may just get those 60 seats.

Two races to watch now: Maine and Texas.  The DSCC's pouring cash into Maine.  Seem to be on the verge of falling into single digits.  Texas is back in single digits too.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm hopeful for Minnesota.  Franken seems to have (finally) hit his stride; I'd like to see some distance between him and Coleman before getting all worked up.

If Georgia goes I wonder about Mississippi?  Very similar demographics and dynamics working there.  

McConnell is in real trouble in Kentucky.  He's down to pure mud and slime and every so slowly Lunsford seems to be catching up.  

I think I said I don't understand why Snowe is doing so well in Maine.  Still don't.  :-)

I've read the RNC was sitting on a chunk of change they could throw into Senate/House races at the last minute.  They've got to decide if they are going to cut McCain loose and try to support on-the-edge candidates in the House and Senate.  That's a bit of a problem as cutting McCain loose will get lots of media attention which will hurt GOP down-ticket candidates by lowering turn-out.  If they keep propping-up McCain's advertising they won't have any money to try and play defense later.  So damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:51:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think they're going to cut McCain loose if something magical doesn't happen right about...now.  I mean, what are they supposed to do -- keep hanging their hats on the John Zogby Special Kind of Stupid Drunken Frat Party Dart Game Tracking Poll?  Even the magic Battleground poll luvs it sum majic Negro now, and they'd been clinging to that one for weeks when that evil liberal little shit Rasmussen sold them out.

Or something.

Seriously, I don't see the logic in putting the money on McCain.  Unless things shift strongly, it's like going down to the track to bet on a three-legged dachshund against the greyhound.

Losing the Senate seats and the White House would be devastating to them.  The Senate races are closer.  Bet on the Senate races.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:05:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
CW says the GOP is facing a minimum of 17 in the House and the White House.  Dems winning 60 Senate seats destroys the GOP for the next 2 years.  

I agree.  The best move is to throw the money into the Senate races.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:18:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"minimum lose of"


Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:19:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"minimum losS of," even ;)

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:20:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(LOL)

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:25:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
loss, loose, lose, less, loses, loess, lass ...

somewhere in there is the word I want.


Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:29:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you. Actually I think the ground game does make a bit of a difference. We've just been told the details of our nightmarish but hopefully difference making election weekend. Unfortunately it seems the resources don't include a dose of meth to keep us from zombifying by Tuesday.
by MarekNYC on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:22:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I apparently stand corrected after having said to you that your time in Virginia would be more valuable.  Over the last week or two, especially now with this poll, I've been starting to think Obama will win Missouri.  He's running up absolutely crushing margins in St Louis and Kansas City, and he ain't doing too badly in "Missouruh" either.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:36:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's been the key for Democratic wins in Missouri for as long as I can remember.  Keep the losses in the hinterland to a minimum and rack up the win in St. Lou and KC.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!
by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:45:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm flabbergasted by how well (comparatively speaking) this poll shows him doing in SW Missouri - John Ashcroft/Roy Blunt territory.   I mean, he's not going to win there but if he can stay at 40% the cities will easily make up the rest for him.

Rasmussen poll shows it tighter - but he's still ahead.  

I'm trying not to get greedy but I can't remember the last time we had an election in Missouri that wasn't close.  

by Maryb2004 on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ras showing it close is a good sign given the tendencies of his polls.  I'm going to be interested to see what PPP has to say on it tomorrow, as well as their take on NC.

I suspect it'll be slightly tighter than SUSA in MO and maybe a 5-point lead for Obama in NC (the 6-pointer from a week or two ago struck be as too generous, but I suspect a 4- or 5-point lead is not out of the realm of possibility given Virginia).

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:31:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Getting 40% in the SW is AMAZING.  

Columbia (U of M) should also go hot for Obama in an otherwise Red Sea.  

From afar it looks like the McCaskill coalition plus.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:34:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Think ya have to go to Iowa for the meth though.

Just FYI.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good job!  It's true.  You arrived and the polls jumped.

Can you come back in 2010 when we want to defeat Kit Bond?

by Maryb2004 on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's funny how just yesterday kos was implying that the big polls in the tradmed were essentially dishonest for playing into the neck and neck too close to call sell more papers meme, and now this.

The wheels are falling off the McCain campaign quite badly. The thing I find difficult is that I always accepted that McCain was morally challenged, but that's what you'd expect from a repug.

No, what has surprised me is not that he's gone to the deepest rottenest parts of the barrel for some of his dog-whistling, it's that he seems to have realised at the last minute he's crsossed a line and lost enthusiasm for his own campaign.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:42:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
McCain's biggest problem always been McCain. He has no message beyond 'I'm a hero' - which seems to be a lie anyway - and 'Give it to me.'

Otherwise he's just a random guy in a suit with a combover. He's a salesman with a fine line in bullshit but no product to sell.

Palin is already hating on McCain for losing her the presidency (sic). She will never forgive him for this - it couldn't her fault, clearly - so expect reports of 'tensions' if not outright civil war from the McCain camp in the next few weeks.

The wheels are off, the damage is done. It's over.

Only a big dramatic event - an assasination, a dead city - might have a hope of bringing it back to McCain.

Even then the odds would only be 50:50, because I think there might be some serious unpleasantness if something like that happened now.

Besides, Bush and Cheney are more than happy to throw McCain overboard. They've made their money and had their fun, and I don't think they're interested in what happens next.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:54:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
Besides, Bush and Cheney are more than happy to throw McCain overboard. They've made their money and had their fun, and I don't think they're interested in what happens next.

Well theyve screwed him over before, why not again. its almost as if they dont like him.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
its almost as if they dont like him.

They don't.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
dog
see more puppies

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:25:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know TBG can't resist the lolpets.  Just watch. ;)

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know, I know...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
would be another viral method of spreading the good word. Being a marketing kinda guy, I love pictures with twisty headlines ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lolcombover:

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's only a few millimeters difference between a combover and trepanning.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 03:08:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
now that's just wishfull thinking

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 04:38:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Poor St John.  And now he's lost the gin-soaked ex-Englishman literary critic vote.  When you've lost fellow warmonger Christopher Hitchens, you know you're in trouble.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:10:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's just the appetiser.

Think Progress » McCain campaign attacks Bill Kristol:

Yesterday on Fox News Sunday, Bill Kristol said John McCain's campaign has really become "a pathetic campaign." In his New York Times op-ed this morning, Kristol went further, suggesting that McCain should "fire his campaign" and "start over."

Asked to respond to Kristol's criticisms, McCain campaign spokeswoman Nancy Pfotenhauer said on Fox News:

"Well, you know Bill is entitled to his perspective. And I used to work for Bill. And I can tell you personally sometimes he's brilliant and sometimes he's not. And this is one where it's the latter category. You know, I think unfortunately he has bought into the Obama campaign's party line."

Spontaneous combustion - win!

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 07:01:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bill Kristol -- in the tank for Obama!

To the tune of the Mickey Mouse song.

M-C-C

(See ya real soon!)

A-I-N

(That's not change we can believe in, my friends!)

PANCAKES

FOR THE WIN!

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 10:54:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bush is already furious with him.  He fucked up the bailout bill and sent the market through the floor with his wacko "suspension" and gimmicks with House Republicans.  Before that, he tried to push Bush out of the convention, which was supposed to be his last big speech in front of his constituents, and a big chance to fire up the base in person.  Apparently after that Bush's attitude became, "Fuck it, when he loses, it'll be his own fault."

Bush doesn't like McCain to begin with, and McCain has done nothing but piss him off over the last few months.  That's damaging to McCain on issues like base support and fundraising.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:41:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Reps are in open rebellion behind the scenes.  They're furious with McCain, because he's now dragging down their congressional and senatorial candidates.  The polls put out by the tradmed seem to be returning to the old status of being 3-4 points better for Obama than the trackers (the one exception being Kos's poll which lines up with the tradmed polls).  The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.  Meaning 7 or 8 points feels like the state of the race in LV models.  Among registered voters, it's more like 9 or 10.

The press has brutalized McCain for weeks.  I don't know what sparked it initially (Palin, lying, economic incompetence, wacky stunts, take your pick), but they're pissed, especially at the racialized hatefests that McCain-Palin rallies have become.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what happens to Palin ? Is there a significant likelihood of public revulsion at the activities her national exposure has revealed leading to her losing office ? Or is a case of Alaska is always gonna vote for a bonehead like her come what may, so they may as well keep the bonehead they know ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 11:58:39 AM EST
I assume there will at least be a faction in the republicans who see her as the once and future queen and will not accept anything less. so she has the potential to become the kingmaker of republican politics.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:04:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Assuming Obama wins, she'll probably run in 2012.  And she'll probably lose badly in the primaries.  The Reps will tear her apart.  The one fortunate thing for her is that she won't have to compete with anyone capable of witty remarks, since Rudy -- the only one capable of such remarks -- isn't likely to run again.  The worst for her to fear would be Huckabee, who's funnier, more folksy and more beloved by the Christian Right (her natural constituency).

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By 2012 the only people left registered as republican will be the base, and they are all Palinacs. So, if she is in a position to run, I'm not convinced she'll get creamed in the primaries.

I'm not sure Huckabee plays outside the south. But you're right that he's the only likely competitor.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm honestly not convinced Huckabee wants to run again.  I think he had a good time, especially once he knew he was going to lose.  Now he's a commentator and making some good money.  I think he may be happy with that.

Huckabee can't play outside of rural areas.  It's not just the South.  But a grip on the rural areas is powerful within the GOP.

Palin is going to get part of the blame for McCain's loss if Obama wins.  She's going to be ridiculed by the competition.  And she's not likely to handle it well.  As you know, she's kind of an idiot.  She came off as doing pretty well in the Veep debate, but that was only because she had index cards to read from.  Take the index cards away, and what have you got?  My guess is you're back to Palin the Idiot in that case.

A lot will depend on the state of the country.  If the economy turns around by 2012 (and I think it will by then, although 2010 midterms could be a little rough) -- again, assuming for simplicity's sake that Obama wins -- it'll probably be an election much like 1984 -- meaning the Reps will run some "electable" loser whose "turn" has arrived, and who'll get his ass kicked in every critical state.

A win for Obama also means he has four years to keep building his ground game for the general instead of just 6-11 months like he had this year.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama has built the largest political organization in US history.  It is amazingly self-funded.  This organization parallels the Democratic and Republican Party.

There are now three political parties in the US: Dem's, GOP's, and Obama's.


Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's really not much ground game held by the GOP anymore outside of Florida.  They're making the same mistake Democrats made for years -- writing off huge sections of the country and taking others for granted.  That's what happened in NC.  Obama and the DNC fought all year to move it, while the Reps ignored it.  Well -- surprise! -- it moved in a big way finally.  Obama got over the hump.

Will he win there?  I don't know.  I went back and forth on NC all year, never really willing to believe it unless Obama got into the high-40s and at least tied.  Suddenly, Holy Mother of Jesus, the little fucker got to 50.  Now I'm a full believer that it can be done.  And now he's eating them alive on voter registration.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By 2012 the only people left registered as republican will be the base

That might be < 5%. The other >95% will be registered independent/unaffiliated, of which some portion will express a preference to opinion pollsters for Palin or proto-Palin or other "maverick"/transmorgifying candidate/progressive.

Are you suggesting
1.The Democratic Party will rule forever?

  1. Americans will always wear their hearts on their sleeves?
  2. Sophisticated COINTEL surveillance technologies will obviate professional opinion surveys?


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 04:04:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about none of the above. All I did was comment on affiliations by 2012.

single party dominance never lasts. The repugs are in about the same level of pointlessness as the conservatives in the UK in '97. I'd be shocked if the repugs didn't recover their wits faster than the brits.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 05:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about none of the above.

You refer to options 1, 2, 3? OK. That's hardly an exhaustive list of scenarios. I was kind of hoping, you would develop another along the line of "creative destruction" of the uniparty, implied by the size of independent/unaffiliated and, may I add now, nonparticipating/disaffected voters who refuse to identify with either faction --Republican or Democratic. What change in political sentiment and future partisan organization do these populations represent?

Do you detect any change?

And if "The repugs are in about the same level of pointlessness as the conservatives in the UK in '97" the Democratc and Labour parties are the one party of each state, no? It seems to me that, if "single party dominance never lasts," you expect unaffiliated populations will organize a formal alternative -- an opposition party bearing little or no resemblance to Republican/Tory or neo-con principles of governance?

As the US federal and state legislatures are not parliamentary structures, I would argue that here it will be quite a challenge to escape the paradigm of single party dominance. Media personalities are rather resistant to recognizing multiple parties. I'm sure this has been mentioned in teh blahgs.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 10:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Huckabee/Palin'12: Back to the middle ages!

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 10:23:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If we're not there yet by then...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 11:07:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well indeed: considering what part of the Bible evangelicals prefer, it's Back To Antiquity.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 11:27:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
or anyone else who understands power markets.

If I have this project going on (say a windfarm) and I want to lock in future cashflow I can sell power at a fixed rate to a large consumer, like a utility or a smelter. Then they'll get a discount on the price, that is, I will on average get a lower price for my power but I will in return get less price volatility. Right?

But if I - a household consumer - want to buy power at a fixed rate for say three years going forward I have to pay a premium instead of getting a discount, compared to having my power priced at the spot market.

Why is this?

And why can't I buy power directly at a fixed rate from new power projects who are actively looking for consumers who want to buy at a fixed rate?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:33:54 PM EST
Why is this?

Because they have the power. And you don't.

Really, it is the size of the actors and the level of competition - not the role in selling or buying or the product - that decides who pays the premium. A big cell-phone company gets good deals and can provide good deals to big clients. If you are not big, you lack negotiating power. If you want to think about it in economic terms, the time to research options and negotiate is about the same regardless of your size, but the gain form it varies a lot.

And why can't I buy power directly at a fixed rate from new power projects who are actively looking for consumers who want to buy at a fixed rate?

Actually, you can.

A swedish kind of death:

I'll crosspost a comment from another thread.

A swedish kind of death:

I recently came across O2, a swedish wind-coop. They offer a membership share for 6200 SEK (~650 euro) which entitles you to use 1000 kWh/year for the production cost of 0,13 SEK/kWh (~0,015 euro/kWh) which translates to 10% of retail price. If you use less the rest can be sold. If you leave you can sell back your share.
[---]
 Oh, and a link to o2 Energi.

They have 2000 members and own 3 wind power plants.

I am pimping them so much I should get paid for it. (And if I had a big company I could negotiate such a deal.)

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:52:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's really interesting! It's about the same kind of financing as they use for the new Finnish reactor, only then it's scaled up by something like three orders of magnitude.

Some questions though...

What if everyone heads for the exits at the same time, if everyone or even just many want their money back at the same time? The equity is invested in the turbines and they aren't liquid. Hopefully O2 has a credit line to a bank which isn't in trouble. I also hope they have good insurance as they just have three turbines. Very bad if even a single one breaks down.

Further I wonder how leveraged the co-op is? If it goes bust for some reason I guess you can kiss your money goodbye.

Then, this turns you from a customer into a shareholder as a capital deposit is needed. So what is the return?

The cheapest power you can get today is a one year fixed price contract for 118 öre/kWh. The O2 all included price is 57.9 öre/kWh, a difference of 60.1 öre/kWh.

The deposit required is 6200 kronor and it gives you 1000 kWh at 57.9 öre each, a profit of 60.1 öre*1000=601 kronor. That's an annual 9.7 % nominal return on investment. (btw 100 öre=1 krona)

Not bad... but what is the risk adjusted return?

Jerome, could you give us a rough hint on what rate of returns are needed in the wind business for a project to get green light, without giving away anything you're not supposed to talk about?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:10:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Having looked a bit more at windpower in Sweden, there is something which might be more interesting than the o2 co-op coming up.

It's a company called Arise Windpower.

It's not a co-op but an ordinary for profit company which makes me feel a bit more comfortable, it being easier to understand and having no limit on how much you can invest (in o2 you can only invest enough to cover your household consumption). Further, o2 and the related companies are led by entrepeneurs from the IT boom, while Arise is led be experienced industrialists from utilities and heavy industry.

Arise is still privately held but will be floated on the stock market next year. They are planning to invest about 1.1 billion euros to annualy produce something like 2 TWh of windpower (200 turbines at 2-3 MW each) in a number of different fully owned subsidiary companies, onshore on forest land. They do it in this way to ease financing so I guess we are talking wind power project finance, exactly the kind of stuff Jerome does for a living.

The first 12 turbines are already under construction and another 30 are in the detailed planning phase.

:: ::

The somewhat worrying thing is that they put the the turnkey cost for turbines at 15 million kronor per MW, about 1.5 million euros.

If we compare this with nuclear energy and generously believe the nukes will just have three times as high capacity factors that gives us a cost of 7.2 billion euros for 1600 MW nuclear equivalent, the size of the new reactor in Finland. That reactor was originally supposed to cost 3 billion euros, but even with the massive cost overruns it's still a third cheaper than wind power (even if this ignore that O&M&fuel costs might be a bit higher for nuclear than for wind).

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 12:52:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not Jerome.  But:

Retail electricity markets are very different from wholesale markets.  While in many areas (countries) they are moving away (have moved away) from the traditional monopsony model, allowing private aggregators to sell retail power, there's no contract driven model at retail.

The other main difference is that you're comparing a "generation" contract with retail purchase.  Generation, especially at the scale of plants or windparks, often allows different forms of contracts, hence "merchant plants," where generators can take long-term fixed power sales agreements, or gamble on the market or an industrial user, or even mix.

An expansion of retail generation (home power) may well change the game enough.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 12:55:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:31:30 PM EST
The F-35 is a cool toy, but... The price tag aint worth it. Not that I'm not biased as I get approximately 5 eurocents of pure profit for every Gripen sold. ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nice to know that, whatever the stte of the economy, our lords and masters will continue to prioritise stupid pointless toys like that.

And BruceMcF thinks the US are gonna claw back their military empire in the next couple of decades. The delusions needed to maintain such a military simply cannot be journeyed to when starting from reality.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 01:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't it those toys that the UK is buying to fly from the new carriers?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but the F-35 program is in rather deep shit so the Brits are talking about getting modified Eurofighters for the carriers instead.

In my opinion the most reasonable solution for the Brits would be to choose Rafales for the carriers as there is already a carrier version of Rafale.

But Rafale, the indignity! ;-D

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:16:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 05:58:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL.  LOTD.  "Well, you can't get even one olympic sized swimming pool into a helicopter."

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The best was the what is it for segment...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:21:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but we can't use the planes outside of Britain.

Or "Yes, we could use the Harriers.  Yes, from '69.  Well, we could use them against anyone who doesn't have an air force."

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:25:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pure genius!

Who are the two humorists?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
John Bird and John Fortune, theyve been doing these fictional interviews since 1999 as part of a satirical TV series. Their financial ones this year have been particularly cutting.

(and the hour long Iraq war special they did on the eve of the Invasion is always woth a Watch

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:20:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
John Bird and John Fortune
aka "The Long Johns"
aka "The Two Johns"
in some places.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 06:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably {depressed sigh}

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pointless? No, this is what Marx called the "superstructure"! We can't just spend money on the necessities of life, we need some cool stuff too. Like opera and theater. And fighter planes.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 02:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I propose we dedicate our 'cool stuff' money to stuff that isn't made to kill with. Something useful would be a bonus.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 04:02:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, but we just said it shouldn't be useful stuff! ;)

Furthermore, fighter planes are not made to kill, not anymore than kitchen knives. Sure they can kill - but that's not what they're there for.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 04:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, fighter planes are weapons: they're for killing with or at least threatening to kill with. Like a sword: no peaceful use.

A kitchen knife is for cooking with: it's a kitchen tool.

Your analogy is broken, unless you can't tell the difference between serving dinner and severing heads.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 04:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what if he's intending to cook the foreigners after they're killed? ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 13th, 2008 at 04:40:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's hard to imagine a more peaceful tool than a weapon, at least if you're a Swede. Weapons are used for deterrence, to reduce the risk of war, "Peace is our profession" etc.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 11:07:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, no. 'We' (you) said it should not be the 'necessities of life'. The two are different. I would consider what I work on (particle accelerators for high ener