Nietzsche contra Greenspan

by Ted Welch
Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 05:52:52 AM EST

As Fran pointed out, 15th October was Nietzsche's birthday. He urged others to "live dangerously" - but he didn't do extreme sports :-) His life was very much one of the mind and the danger was in challenging his culture's most basic assumptions and values. He would not be surprised to learn that he is widely misundertood now, he was widely misunderstood in his own time :

It has been said that Nietzsche is one of the best known and yet least understood of philosophers
...
 Nietzsche never wanted disciples, indeed even Zarathustra hopes to see his followers repudiate him in the end. Nietzsche wants thinkers, able and willing to form their own answers for themselves. In this way, Nietzsche is not so much telling his readers what to think, but rather how to think. His works are meant to convey not a product but a process, and that process is at the heart of what it is to be human.

http://www.philosophers.co.uk/cafe/phil_feb2002.htm

In a comment on Jerome's diary  "nobody could have predicted  ..."
I cited an article which was very critical of Greenspan and those in government who'd failed to question his pernicious ideology and became, effectively, his disciples:



Re: "nobody could have predicted..."

(Greenspan) had a way of speaking that made you think he knew exactly what he was talking about at all times," said Senator Tom Harkin, a Democrat from Iowa. "He was able to say things in a way that made people not want to question him on anything, like he knew it all. He was the Oracle, and who were you to question him?

ARGeezer commented :


... While I do not recommend that all college undergraduates be required to take a course on rhetroic, I do think that they should be required to take a course that alerts them to the power of that art to win on style arguments that should loose on substance.  The dominance of Friedman and Greenspan and the techniques used by Greenspan should be combed and used as exhibit A.

http://www.eurotrib.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2008/10/12/155513/02

I think a course in rhetoric and informal logic would be a lot more valuable than many things students study, but I don't think it's really necessary. It wasn't so much anything Greenspan said so much as his confident manner, according to Harkin (above). More fundamental is doing what Nietzsche tried to do, i.e. encouraging others be generally sceptical, to think for themselves and to be critical of even the most widely accepted experts and authorities:

Not giving Descartes the benefit of the doubt

Modern philosophy is often said to begin with Descartes and his radical scepticism, but a review of a recent book on Descartes in the IHT gets it wrong regarding the significance of one of Descartes' most famous ideas:


Descartes' Bones A Skeletal History of the Conflict Between Faith and Reason By Russell Shorto

He naturally begins with the living, breathing Descartes, whose proclamation "Cogito ergo sum" ("I think, therefore I am") can be seen as the cornerstone of modern scientific thought.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/15/arts/bookmer.php

In fact Descartes' cogito was almost the exact opposite of the scientific approach, it was a betrayal of his scepticism. He presented it as an indubitable truth and used it as the basis of an argument for the existence of god.

Nietzsche's dissection of Descartes' cogito is brilliant - once you've read it you wonder why it took so long for someone to see what he made so obvious - this was not an indubitable truth, but a set of daring assumptions. It is a wonderful demonstration of philosophical thinking and a refusal to be overawed by Descartes' reputation. As Danial Goldberg says:


Friedrich Nietzsche blows the cogito completely out of the water in Beyond Good and Evil. In Section 16 of On the Prejudices of Philosophers, he notes,

The people on their part may think that cognition is knowing all about things, but the philosopher must say to himself: "When I analyze the process that is expressed in the sentence, 'I think,' I find a whole series of daring assertions, the argumentative proof of which would be difficult, perhaps impossible: for instance, that it is I who think, that there must necessarily be something that thinks, that thinking is an activity and operation on the part of a being who is thought of as a cause, that there is an 'ego,' and finally, that it is already determined what is to be designated by thinking--that I KNOW what thinking is. For if I had not already decided within myself what it is, by what standard could I determine whether that which is just happening is not perhaps 'willing' or 'feeling'? In short, the assertion 'I think,' assumes that I COMPARE my state at the present moment with other states of myself which I know, in order to determine what it is; on account of this retrospective connection with further 'knowledge,' it has, at any rate, no immediate certainty for me."

This is devastating ... Intellectual carnage. Nietzsche was awesome.

http://trivialpursuits.typepad.com/trivial_pursuits/2004/02/deconstructing_.html

A Reasonable Scepticism

But a problem I encountered as a lecturer was that when one encourages students to be sceptical, many easily go from excessive credulity regarding experts and authorities, to assuming that one should just ignore experts and that all opinions are equally valid. It can be hard to get them to accept the more complicated view that being sceptical is not the same as nihilism; one should be both sceptical AND respect well-researched, well-argued views. What we need is a "reasonable scepticism ":

While these examples are meant to disillusion the reader about the objectivity and vision of transcendent truth claimed by scientists, they are not intended to be antiscientific or to suggest that we should give up science in favor of, say, astrology or thinking beautiful thoughts. Rather, they are meant to acquaint the reader with the truth about science as a social activity and to promote a reasonable skepticism about the sweeping claims that modern science makes to an understanding of human existence. There is a difference between skepticism and cynicism, for the former can lead to action and the latter only to passivity. So these pages have a political end, too, which is to encourage the readers not to leave science to the experts, not to be mystified by it, but to demand a sophisticated scientific understanding in which everyone can share.

A Reasonable Skepticism by Richard Lewontin

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/76-101AA/readings/Lewontinfull.htm

Nietzsche is often seen, mistakenly, as nihilistic, but in fact he was for going beyond nihilism to construct new values:


he parts company with nihilists in that he did not argue that everything deserves to be destroyed. He was not simply interested in tearing down traditional beliefs based upon traditional values; instead, he also wanted to help build new values. He pointed in the direction of a "superman" [overman] who might be able to construct his own set of values independent of what anyone else thought.

http://atheism.about.com/od/nihilismnihilists/a/nietzsche.htm

A sceptical web

Some see the web as promoting a healthy scepticism - though unfortunately the following is too sweeping in its optimism; the web is also full of groups with dogmatic views. But there is some truth in this, the web does make it very easy to read a wide variety of views and criticisms of them.

This refers to Ireland and the vote against the Lisbon Treaty:


But one thing is for sure; we don't follow our politicians like sheep anymore[! if only - see the sheep dutifully applaud Palin's nonsense]. As a taxi driver told me, he went on the Web, looked up some stuff about the Lisbon Treaty, and decided to vote no.

The Web is about the informed, skeptical society. [AND cults and a vast array of groups with dogmatic views] There is a break developing between this skeptical society and its experts, institutions and organizations. The organization can't just say: "Trust us. Follow us. We know best."

The posters for the No campaign were second person and direct, saying things like "IT'LL COST YOU: MORE TAX, LESS POWER". Many of the posters for the Yes campaign had big pictures of the local politician. These posters were saying: `I'm your local politician. Trust me.' "What we did with the poster campaign was cynical and wrong," Leo Varadkar, a member of the Irish parliament, stated about his party's campaign.

In the pre-Web, politicians and marketers saw people as sheep to be lead. But in the post-Web the sheep have turned into wolves hungry for the meat in the message.

http://giraffeforum.com/wordpress/2008/07/06/experts-and-organizations-losing-trust/

"Hungry wolves" ?  Look at how quickly "Joe the plumber" was torn apart and the bits spread over the blogosphere :

 http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2008/10/16/11053/258

Cf.:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645/

Palin rapidly lost popularity, attacks and satires proliferated on the web and members of the more intelligent right deplored her encouragement of dogmatic ignorance, e.g. David Brooks:


[Sarah Palin] represents a fatal cancer to the Republican party. When I first started in journalism, I worked at the National Review for Bill Buckley. And Buckley famously said he'd rather be ruled by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book than by the Harvard faculty. But he didn't think those were the only two options. He thought it was important to have people on the conservative side who celebrated ideas, who celebrated learning. And his whole life was based on that, and that was also true for a lot of the other conservatives in the Reagan era. Reagan had an immense faith in the power of ideas. But there has been a counter, more populist tradition, which is not only to scorn liberal ideas but to scorn ideas entirely. And I'm afraid that Sarah Palin has those prejudices. I think President Bush has those prejudices.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/08/david-brooks-sarah-palin_n_133001.html

But, before we congratulate ourselves as being people who "celebratrate ideas" and feel affirmed in our convictions - Nietzsche offers a typical warning:


To prove a conviction is quite senseless; rather, it is important to prove that one has a right to be so convinced ... Conviction is an objection, a question mark, a défi ["challenge"] (--very popular error: having the courage of one's convictions--? Rather it is a matter of having the courage for an attack on one's convictions! ! !

--Spring 1888 14 [159]

But that can be very hard to do by oneself and it helps to be part of a community which will criticise one's convictions (which is how science works) - hard as that may be to accept sometimes :-)

So off you go.

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But a problem I encountered as a lecturer was that when one encourages students to be sceptical, many easily go from excessive credulity regarding experts and authorities, to assuming that one should just ignore experts and that all opinions are equally valid.
Is not this phenomenon a major part of what has traditionally been subsumed under the descriptor "sophomoric?"  What I was suggesting was provision of an educational exercise the provide an experiential basis for students understanding how easily they can be deceived and/or manipulated by commonly used advertising and rhetorical techniques.

Consolidation of such an insight into a more mature and balanced view of the world may mostly occur among those who fail, for whatever reason, to fully assimilate the current dominant worldview.  I suspect that lack of consolidation is why sophomoric cynicism is so often forgotten in a happy return to a less critical embrace of the predominant views of the society after college.  A proper consolidation of a critical view must, of necessity, be idiosyncratic and, hence, not suitable for lecture based presentation.  It would require as much the skills of a psychoanalyst as of those of a philosopher.  It would be expensive and would inevitably be seen, (properly,) as subversive of the current social order.  In order for this to be tolerated, there must be a widespread perception of a need for new ways of thinking about the nature and structure of society.  Such times are approaching.  The question is whether the societal responses will be ones that facilitate or suppress social criticism and innovation.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 11:56:35 AM EST

 A proper consolidation of a critical view must, of necessity, be idiosyncratic and, hence, not suitable for lecture based presentation.

It depends on how you lecture, mine were pretty "idiosyncratic", very interactive and I constantly showed students examples of rival views of issues in the media, and related them to the ideologies and general history behind them and then encouraged them to argue. It seems to have worked for a lot of students:

The course and it's future students will be the poorer for your loss. But as Socrates said: "The unexamined life is not worth living."

Keep up the good work making people think for themselves...

http://homepage.mac.com/tedwelch/xaro-03/feedback.html


You did a lot for CMP which many people will never forget. I'd like to thank you for something you once said (its not a quote, i didnt make that detailed notes), you asked us all to question the things that usually we just go along with, to go out there and find the answers for ourselves and not take someone's opinion as a truth.  For this i thank you.

I refused to keep within the usual academic boundaries (easier with a new and broad subject like the media)  and ranged very widely, encouraging students to do so too and not be afraid to question the views of experts in various fields. One guy, who had wanted to make SF films when he started the course, became interested in the political issues we discussed and went on to do an MA in politics and a Ph D in Soviet economics ! :-)


You may think this a long way from film, but only after attending your lectures could someone with no knowledge whatsoeverof the history of mathematics think they could write a book on this subject. Surely that is a great achievement!

From a review:

Barnett's new book provides much objective information about Russian economic thinking during its most flourishing historical period and valuable insights into the nature of the interlacing ideas and contending views of Russian economists. Putting a new perspective on the history of Russian economic ideas may contribute to the multi-national study of the history of economic thought. It is a welcome addition to the scarce English-language literature.

http://eh.net/bookreviews/library/1185




Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 01:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is why good professors are invaluable!  I suspect you would have encountered much more opposition in, say, an economics department.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 04:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More perhaps, but I don't think it's that rigid even in economics:


Many professors blanch at the idea of serving as department chairman, an often thankless task requiring fierce lobbying of school administrators for resources and deft ego massage of faculty members. "You've got 50 prima donnas and no stick to hit them with, so you just try to persuade them and hope they fall in line," said Gene M. Grossman, a Princeton economist and former chairman of the department.

Many professors blanch at the idea of serving as department chairman, an often thankless task requiring fierce lobbying of school administrators for resources and deft ego massage of faculty members. "You've got 50 prima donnas and no stick to hit them with, so you just try to persuade them and hope they fall in line," said Gene M. Grossman, a Princeton economist and former chairman of the department.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/14/AR2005111401544_pf.html

And at Princeton Krugman replaced Bernanke as chairman of department.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 06:10:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have this perverted image of bubbles Greenspan and Overman Neitzsche beginning a discussion over a few biers.   They're really starting to get into it, as bubbles' nascent superiority begins to devolve into angry arrogance as he stands and pounds the table.  Overman remains calm, but rips ever more scathing ripostes.  Until greenspan slinks from the table, licking his bleeding tail.

Overman scoops Andrea "Lunch" Mitchell up from the next table, and slings her over his shoulder, lifting her skirt to show everyone what he's won. He carries her back to his tower lair at Deutsche Bank in Frankfurt, where he regales her with tales of how he and his troops have foregone their bonuses this year, in the interests of staying on the good side of the general populace. Lunch doesn't stop coming.

(For those of you who think this is sexist, you're right.  But it's called writing, which you can ignore.  If this crosses the line for this site, yes, we're testing the waters here, then i would have to exercise more discretion in the future.  But then, what's truly obscene are the outlandish excesses detailed by some of the financial diaries here from the last few weeks, particularly as the bonus details of the bailout become known, and not a bit of economic sexual fantasy.

Finally, the image is taken from a real life event, when the Daimler CEO signed the takeover of Chrysler, flung his assistant over his shoulder, grabbed a bottle of Dom Perignon, and left.)

There's many other decent thoughts stimulated by Ted's diary, and i hope he doesn't mind my intrusion to his own fine juxtaposition here.  But it's Sat eve, Anya's working, and i'm left to conjure.

Let me tell you that my blood boils the more i contemplate what's been done and is being done to our social system, and the planet where it lives.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 02:53:51 PM EST
Nietzsche.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 02:54:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy to welcome all kinds of comments, just as I do all kinds of diaries :-) (see last night's OT).

 Nietzsche's only (?) reference to the stock exchange expresses his loathing for what it represented even then, but has also been used to misrepresent him as an anti-semite - au contraire:

I feel obligated to correct a distortion suggested by `unraveler' below. It is popular to suggest Nietzsche was an anti-semite, but this is a rather lazy habit. Nietzsche's remark on `the youthful stock-exchange Jew' was mentioned. Here it is in its proper environment:

. . . the entire problem of the Jews exists only within national states, inasmuch as it is here that their energy and higher intelligence, their capital in will and spirit accumulated from generation to generation in a long school of suffering, must come to preponderate to a degree calculated to arouse envy and and hatred, so that in almost every nation . . . there is gaining ground the literary indecency of leading the Jews to the sacrificial slaughter as scapegoats for every possible public or private misfortune. As soon as it is no longer a question of the conserving of nations but of the production of the strongest possible European mixed race, the Jew will be just as usable and desirable as an ingredient of it as any other national residue. Every nation, every man, possesses unpleasant, indeed dangerous qualities: it is cruel to demand that the Jew should constitute an exception. In him these qualities may even be dangerous and repellent to an exceptional degree; and perhaps the youthful stock-exchange Jew is the most repulsive invention of the entire human race. Nonetheless I should like to know how much must, in a total accounting, be forgiven a people who, not without us all being to blame, have had the most grief-laden history of any people and whom we have to thank for the noblest human being (Christ), the purest sage (Spinoza), the mightiest book and the most efficacious moral code in the world.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R2RAHUDE1PPXTQ



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 at 03:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nietzsche spends a good amount of space in Zarathustra attacking those who use words to dull, to obfuscate, to put to sleep.  Spent as much space celebrating those who use words to sharpen, to clarify, to waken, to dance.  

Greenspan spent his time lulling people into accepting his Truth.  "Sleep.  Sleep."  He would say, "rest comfortably in my arms.  Let my words carry you to where I want you to be."

In contrast Nietzsche is continually shouting, "Wake UP!  Do you want to be an (intellectual) jackass all your life, loaded down with other people's burdens?"

Skepticism is needed but a pure skeptic is as loaded with burdens as a donkey.  They are intellectual sloths refusing to say, "Yes.  To that I agree.  To THAT I make my stand."  Behind their mask is a three year old, knowing only the word "No" and using it often.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Sun Oct 19th, 2008 at 02:22:25 PM EST


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