Did the Lion Roar in the Night?

by geezer in Paris
Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 03:44:59 AM EST

Another game of "Starve The Beast"?

An IED for Obama, post-election?

A massive rip-off by the financial rats, --just before they leave the ship, carpetbags in hand?

Or just another illustration of Democratic spinelessness?

--- or--Did someone in the Chinese/Japanese/ ministry of finance pick up the phone and put in a call to Pennsylvania avenue to chat about the growing bad smell coming, as of late,  from US Treasury paper, and how much they like the graphic design of the Euro?


If this huge wad of money dumped into trash is a plan to rescue the banking system, the plan is stupid. NO ONE can make a plausible case for any real amelioration of root causes, or even persuasively argue that it will put out the fire for more that a short time.
And the guys doing this--Chris Dodd, Barney Frank--are very bright.

Starve The Beast?

Starve the beast is a phrase that apparently began in the Reagan years, and refers to his tactic of when you fail to eliminate those despised, useless big-government agencies by legislative means (the department of education, for  example), you saddle them with stupid policies, unattainable goals, incompetent personnel, and finally you take away the money. THEN, you say--"These guys are just too dumb for words. Fire the lot of them! Privatize the thing!"
That tactic failed for the most part for the Great CONmunicator,  so it has morphed into the Grover Norquist machine. If you want to shrink the whole government till you can grab it by the throat and drown it in the bathtub,--just bankrupt it.
Gotta admit, he thinks big.
Will a trillion do the job?
Add this pile to the new military budget pile, another trillion or so, and it just might. Chalmers Johnson thinks it's only a question of time, and this blunder accelerates the process. Remember, both these gigantic expenditures are mostly unproductive money.

The Obama Bomb?

Obama walks the tightrope.

He has drifted toward the land of political expediency, perhaps of necessity, but Robert Kuttner, in his latest book, "Obama's Challenge", thinks he has the chops to make change happen- to make the enemies it will entail, endure the mudwars and slimefests that FDR endured, and inspire and reunite the nation.
Tall order, Bob.
First, he has to avoid being doomed by a financial IED that will destroy any hope of progressive change for his administration.
I think his response so far is quite poor-- anyone who has a bank account in six figures probably knows enough to spread it out over more than one bank, so his FDIC token won't do very much.

The Parade of Rats?

With their Gucci bags packed, their megayachts fueled , their chateaus staffed to the max--- OK, it seems a bit overblown to us ordinaries, but that's probably because the enclaves where these masters of finance hang are off limits to the proletariat.
If Echelon or one of the many other tracking programs so beloved by the current administration  were to map the money flow by income, this question of rat migration could be answered easily.

Come to think of it, ---that's just what they do. Hm.

RSS-Rubber Spine Syndrome? So, at the penultimate moment, at the end of of a pretty admirable career in the Senate--Chris Dodd buckles, and tacks on 100 billion more in bribery-tax cuts-, and flips the bird to a lifelong set of principles? And the estimable Barney Frank -that caustic iconoclast of the dry wit, that bastion of independence meekly agrees? And Harry and Nancy suck it in and applaud? Well,--yes.

It just does not add up.

What do you think? Which of these are most relevant?

Or do you suspect, as I do, that it's all of the above, and that it STILL does not add up--the rush to an act of bad judgment that will come back to haunt us.

I suspect--with no evidence at all- that the Chinese lion roared, in private, and put the fear of the stake into our erstwhile leaders.

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If Obama is elected he will face a political IED of his own making. He voted for this godawful giveaway.

So much for "change you can believe in." Anyone who still thinks Obama is anything other than just another politician (a not-very-progressive one at that) is deluding himself.

You can find extensive, insightful, unabashed blog coverage of the bailout bonanza at Correntewire

by scoff on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 09:11:27 AM EST
Obama will stop torture, improve the health care system in the US and may end kidnappings and detention without charge at a court.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:13:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Id like to believe that. I really would.

But right now I'm not convinced Obama has any such plans. He clearly intends to enact republican policies; he talks of reaching across the aisle which we all know is beltway code for carrying on the repug shit. Where have the repugs suggested they want anything to do with the policies you suggest ?

they'll take whatever he gives them, swallow it without a burp and then bite his hand off if he tries any of that "commie" stuff like ending the war, doing health care or closing Gitmo.

the change I believe will happen is Obama will move into the White house. Nothing else.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:32:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At least the first 2, but probably the full 4 years, there will be a democratic house, senate, and president. There will be zero need to get a majority of republicans to support any of Obama's policies.

While there maybe few republican politicians, who would support that measures, I do think they would find support among many moderate republican voters.

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:41:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the democratic house and senate will be dependent on majorities that comprise blue dog "democrats" who will always vote republican and always oppose democrats. And Lieberman will remain as their sainted leader.

Dems simply don't seem capable of playing from a sense of what's right, they don't believe in anything so everything is up for grabs and compromise till they've given away anything that matters. And the repugs/blue dogs know that.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:47:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For decades the Democratic party leadership has selected candidates based on the meme that you had to be conservative to beat the Republicans. I don't think that was the real reason- I think they themselves were more comfortable with Republican, conservative political philosophy and leery of any progressive trend, so the blue dogs are their attempt to inoculate the Democratic party against alien, progressive ideas. It has worked. So yes, Obama's biggest enemy, should he suffer an attack of progressive courage, will be the conservative democrats-the Blue Dogs.
In truth, the entire country is suffering the aftermath of 80 years of anti-socialist propaganda . All that is needed is to label a proposal "socialist", and all thought stops, and it goes down in flames.
After reading his first two books, it's clear that Obama's knowledge of the range of European socialist experiments is very limited, and he too seems to react reflexively toward the "S" word. Too bad. Maybe Joe Biden will wise him up-- Biden knows a lot.

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:25:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I used think like your diary, about three days ago! But now I'm starting to think that maybe things are falling apart and that something has to be tried to turn the situation, regardless of the small chance of success. The reason I say this is that the disease seems to be spreading to Europe. At least two European banks have been bailed out this past week. And have you seen the euro-dollar rate of exchange. I bought a bunch of euros last week at 1.46 and was happy to get that price. Today it's 1.38 plus. And that's not because the U.S. economy is strong [snark]. Europe's must be quickly heading into the "shitter."

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 09:39:02 AM EST
yup, berlu told the italians today that the banks were strong and the peeps mustn't worry.

so everyone breathed a sigh of relief...

what else could go wrong?

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 10:47:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See this interview with the president of Generali Insurance posted on Boursroama.
Antoine Bernheim Président de GENERALI     17:46 01/10/08

Anne Fulda - Antoine Bernheim, Bonsoir.

Antoine Bernheim croyez-vous à la solidité du système bancaire français ? Est-il un des plus sûrs du monde comme le dit sur RTL Christian Noyer, le gouverneur de la Banque de France ?

Antoine Bernheim - Je l'espère.

http://www.boursorama.com/forum/message.phtml?file=378084784&pageForum=1

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 10:57:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Note that Anne Fulda is Sarko's interim love story, during Cecilia's first leave of absence to NY.

Generally, Fulda and Bernheim seem to agree to spoil the day for sarko and the gov't, all through the interview.

Pierre

by Pierre on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm with Jerome on this- I think the European economies will weather this a lot better than most people think.
In the US there's this need to shout, "Well---you're one too!" True, to a point. Time will tell.

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:28:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is that everything with the financial institutions is covered up. No one knows really what's going on. Everyone talks in generalities, not in specifics.
Next week, if it's not too late, I'm going to withdraw money from my savings (assurance vie) and pay off my house mortgage (even though that will cost me some taxes) on the assumption that the insurance companies may not be able to repay me the week after.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:20:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Dems folded because they always do. Can't pass a bill cos the repugs won't play ball ? Just load it up with stuff they want. Never question if the original idea was wrong-headed, not even the Dodd plan really addressed that cos it still accepted the Paulson idea of plonking loads more money into the pockets of the guys who'd already screwed up big time.

But as Bonddad notes on dKos

The basic problem is the value of the assets that are dropping in value.  Everybody wants to waive a magic wand and make them more valuable.  To quote the Mike Meyers' character Fat Bastard, "that's crap."  These assets are cheap because they're cheap.  In some cases they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.  And yet everybody thinks they're worth more then the market will value them at right now.  Maybe they will be, maybe they won't.  But right now the market says they're not worth anything.  We can't simply say "they're worth more because of all these assumptions."  Those assumptions could just as easily be wrong as they are right.

And that leads to the central problem: we're in a period of massive asset deflation.  Housing is dropping like a stone.  Hence, lots of mortgages are underwater -- meaning the mortgage is worth more than the house.  That means people increasingly default on their mortgages.  That means assets backed by mortgages (like mortgage backed bonds that are causing the current problem) will continue to drop in value.  And no magic wand can make those mortgage backed assets more valuable

And these assets pollute the balance sheets of european banks as well. Plus the collapsing global economy is damaging the price of assets all over, even Russia's taken a hit, so it is only natural that all asset based valuations are hit.

The question is not whether the ECB should work in concert with national financial institutions, but what underlying philosphy they use in tackling the problem. If they see it as liquidity, then they throw good money after bad. If they see it as a failure of corporate philosophy requiring intervention and firings and revised regulatory and taxtion schemes with regulatory boundaries turned into actively policed borders then some good will come of it.

Infrastructure is finally the responsibility of government. Privatisation of utilities hasn't really worked because there is a tension between short term shareholder profit and long term planning that cannot be resolved in the private sector. So we now establish that banks are conduits of capital, as such they are quasi-infrastructure entities which need to be heavily controlled at EU level with the bias towards the consumer and industry and not to financial parasitical profit.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:24:43 AM EST
Helen, this is all very logical. say, Makes sense-- but to what end?
If you attempt to construct policy or argument based on assumptions of good government as the objective, you get this sort of path. But if you view (as I do) most of the economic models and political systems extant as the residue that's left after a good idea's been gamed to death--as essentially plunder mechanisms--you get a dofferent discussion entirely.
Does this sound cynical? Like your view of Obama? Probably is.

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:34:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I find myself agreeing with Krugman a lot on this business. I have no idea if he's right (we'll all know in 5 years), but he certainly seems to make sense:

Paul Krugman - Op-Ed Columnist - New York Times Blog

Here's the thing: it's very hard for Congress to originate complex financial rescues, so it's normally up to the executive to put things together. Unfortunately, Paulson came up with an awful plan. Ideally, the Dems would have ripped the thing up and started over, but that was never realistic. So instead they made it significantly better, but still building on the original, misconceived structure; it became better than nothing, but not good.

And then it failed in the House, so the Senate has larded it up, with stuff like SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY CHILDREN.

I think that Congressional leaders know that it's a bad bill, but feel compelled to defend it, because they're (rightly) scared of the financial consequences of a second rejection. And to some extent economists like myself are in the same position; I think I called it the "hold your nose caucus."

His attitude seems to be that the bailout is inadequate and fundamentally misguided, but a necessary bandaid to hold things together until an Obama administration comes in.

And we might as well cling to that hope, seeing how there's fuck all else we can do.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 12:07:19 PM EST
Yes-Agreed. To about every comment above.
But my question remains--why the rush?

It took three years of Hoover's mismanagement for the national real economy to crater after the 1929 debacle, and a good case could be made that the appearance on the world stage of the Bernake-Paulson minstrel show actually made things worse-accelerated the process..
The need for action is apparent. The need for the Paulson plan, rammed through with unseemly haste, with few alternatives discussed effectively is not only stupid but politically very dangerous for everyone, on either side of the aisle, in both the short term and the medium term. The need for the Senate to throw another 100 billion at it, to bribe the holdouts in the house? Like bribing a man to put out his burning house.
A good bill could have been worked out in the house and passed, --even with a small majority- and sent to the senate, where it would have been probably vetoproof.

As well--are we to assume that the two largest holders of US dollar reserves will do nothing---forever?
The catalytic event that most of us have been waiting for is the failure of these two to continue top carry our tab.
Inaction on the part of the Dems or Repugs is easier to rationalize than hysterical haste. This sounds like either a Naomi Kline moment or the intervention of the guys with the checkbook- China and/or Japan to me. Or both.  

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 01:06:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect--with no evidence at all- that the Chinese lion roared, in private, and put the fear of the stake into our erstwhile leaders.
This certainly would not surprise me.  What surprises me is the irrelevance of the response and its support by those such as Dodd and Frank who have to know better.  If it is the Chinese they are responding to, how does this response help?  The only answer I can come up with is that Paulson needs several hundred billion to unwind a bad bet made by a Chinese governmental entity.

The problem is that there is not enough real assets in the known financial universe to cleanly unwind this fiasco.  It is after all a giant bubble.  The only thing I can see that would help would be for everyone to take a deep breath and then freeze in place all real estate backed assets pending a competent review of their true value.  Some assets in out of the way areas will be found to be genuine.  Most assets in areas which boomed will be found to be worth half or less of their face value.

The other possible solution would be to find a way to cancel out all derivative bets.  Unless bets in excess of $40 trillion magically cancel out, there is no other way to deal with them.  If a contract between a prostitute and a john can be declared null and void on its face, why not do the same for derivative bets based on fraudulently priced assets?  The current net worth of the Forbes 400 richest individuals is ~$1.58 trillion.  The wealth of the richest 1000 is likely to be less than $4 trillion.  What else can be done besides a coordinated international devaluation or achieving the same end by inflation?

It seems to me that China is much more threatened by the freezing up of the US consumer market, upon which their entire economy depends, than on what ever happens to the entire financial system.  If they can afford to hold over $1 trillion of our paper, they don't really need it and can withstand a devaluation better than most others.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 05:45:28 PM EST
How much money is actually involved in the $40 trillion worth of bets?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 08:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wish I knew.  But unless they are unwound, that money includes the leverage.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It seems to me that China is much more threatened by the freezing up of the US consumer market, upon which their entire economy depends, than on what ever happens to the entire financial system.

Good point, as is your derivative idea.
I'm just running on that scratchy feeling in my brain that this all does not add up- the actions taken are at odds with the events supposed to have incited them.
It feels incomplete- as if a big piece or two of the puzzle has been kicked under the table.

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 01:10:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why else should such an intelligent group of people be acting so stupidly against all of the principles for which they have stood.  I am mystified and disconcerted.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 09:10:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hence the diary.

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 12:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... can the US government be "bankrupted" by a trillion dollars?

Don't buy the right wing bullshit ...

In World War II, we pushed the debt up above 100% of GDP ... its presently (avoiding double counting) under 50%. $1  trillion is less than 10% of US GDP.

The US can be bankrupted going down the course it is presently going, but $700b is well worth it if only to prevent average GDP growth rates from being 1% or more lower over the next five years.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 08:18:12 PM EST
The damage is likely to be several trillions of dollars and that could result in effective devaluation of our currency by the proportion of, say $3-$4 trillion in new money to what ever the current money supply is. That could possibly be made worse by trying to cover bad derivative bets gone bad.  If you could put some bounds on these risks I would be very appreciative.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Oct 2nd, 2008 at 11:31:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... significant shift toward an Exporters currency. We have for far too long pursued an Importers Currency policy in service of the Military Industrial Complex and the Overseas Base Network.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 12:01:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed.

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 01:17:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some well-thought out limits would make your point more persuasive.
We can debate the percentage of GDP that can be piled up and burned to keep warm, (at a time of crumbling infrastructure, crappy education and exploding health care costs), or re-argue Chalmers Johnson's three volumes, but that was not the point of the diary.  

What will reliably break the bank is a cutoff of funds from foreign investors.
We live on their credit card.

 

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 01:22:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A situation very different than WWII, is it not?

Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 01:27:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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