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When the going gets tough....

by Frank Schnittger Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:22:38 PM EST


The Obama campaign have just released an ad reminding voters of McCain's close connection with the Keating Savings and Loan financial scandal when savers lost Billions because McCain and 4 other senators had managed to pressurise the regulator into not issuing enforcement proceedings against Keating.  The full video is available here


It could be argued that releasing the video now is just a case of the Obama campaign getting even for McCain/Palin raising Obama's alleged links with William Ayers in an attempt to "turn the page" from the economy and onto Obama's alleged "character" defects.

However there is also a more serious argument that the Keating 5 episode, and McCain's central role in it, is a very appropriate issue to raise at this time because it speaks to the effects on ordinary savers and investors of banking deregulation and lack of oversight.  We may never know whether the Obama campaign would have released the video in any case, but McCain and Palin trying to resuscitate Obama's links to Ayers many years ago certainly gave the Obama campaign the opening to do so.  Democrats live in terror of being "swift boated" again and are determined not to take Republican attack ads lying down.  Obama is often accused to playing defense too much, but with this ad and longer video release they have certainly gone on the attack.

Later today (or early Tomorrow for those of us in Europe) sees the second debate between Obama and McCain in McCain's favourite "Town Hall" format.  It represents McCain's second last set piece chance to turn his campaign around - because he has been sinking fast.  As I predicted in The Blow-out begins? McCain is now over 6% behind in the national averages and many swing states have swung away from his grasp.  


Of all the Toss-up states above, Obama needs to win just Colorado (or another large Toss-up state) to reach the magic 269 number.  Democrats are even getting excited at the prospect of swinging solid Republican states such as Georgia and even Texas because of the success of Obama's ground game - with huge voter registration, mobilisation and GOTV efforts being reported in all swing states and even some states which were never on the original target list.  McCain has already abandoned Michigan and may well have to focus his campaign on an increasingly narrow band of "winnable states".

The "blow-out" is by no means a certainty.  Similar large swings (in favour of an incumbent) have taken place  - if rarely - before, notably when Bush almost overhauled an 8% Gore lead in the polls in 2000 and when Ford narrowly failed to secure re-election against Carter in 1976.  Many still expect the race to tighten in the run up to the Election.  However if Obama can avoid disasters in the next two debates and the economy remains centre stage there is only one way Obama's numbers can go.

Display:
Yle: Finns Would Vote for Obama if They Could

According to the survey commissioned by Reader's Digest and conducted by the Gallup Organisation, Obama would run away with 71 percent of Finns' votes.

McCain's highest popularity rating was credited to Centre Party supporters, 23 percent of whom would vote for the Republican candidate. Fourteen percent of National Coalition supporters would also vote for him, as would 11 percent of Social Democrats.

The same questions were asked of citizens in 16 other countries. Obama took the vote in every one. People in the Netherlands were the biggest Obama supporters, and would hand him 92 percent of the vote.




You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 04:57:23 AM EST
He can always run for the Presidency of the EU after his two terms as US President...  or maybe as World President by then?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 06:15:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nonono. We need Zapatero for those jobs :-P

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 06:39:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No no he's ethnic.  I don't think the world is ready for a Latino President just yet...:-)

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 06:45:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On the low side:

Russia: 52%
India: 61%
Poland: 65% (so Poland and Russia agree on something?)
Indonesia: 67%  (I guess they've figured out he isn't a Muslim)

They didn't poll Georgia or Israel.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 06:57:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As if further evidence were needed, Pollsters chart for today (which incorporates a further 17 polls from yesterday) shows a further drift to Obama:

Note the number of EV for Obama in Strong and Lean Dem states has gone up from 260 in yesterdays chart (as posted in the diary) to 296 today - well over the 269 threshold needed

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 08:11:26 AM EST
A new poll in Indiana just out should also move Indiana closer to Obama in the statistical trend line.  Missouri has already flipped to Obama in the simpler RCP poll averages - so we're moving onward to West Virginia and Georgia to see how far the Obama tide can go.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 08:20:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm still absolutely baffled by Florida.  How the hell is he not only winning Florida but actually beating McCain's ass there?  Seven-point lead in the Rasmussen poll.  Eight-point leads in Quinnipiac and CNN.  Mind-blowing.

New Hampshire is also not a toss-up.  The last three polls have had him up double-digits prior to today, and today's CNN poll has him up 8.  Ditto Virginia, with the one exception being the Ras/Faux News poll there.  So throw another 17 EVs into the Obama column.

I'll hold off on calling Ohio "Lean Obama" until I see the new PPP poll today and then the next SUSA poll.

I think Obama's probably taken a very modest lead in Missouri, but that it hasn't flipped yet due to lack of polling.  Same goes for NC, although probably a bit wider there, and NV a little wider than NC.

Right now, we're probably looking at 364 or 375 EVs -- maybe a bit more depending on how things play out in Georgia and West Virginia.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 09:02:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Florida ... all those old retired fucks are concerned about their retirement funds.  Those disappear in a flurry of paperwork ... then what?  They're all on the streets.  All of a sudden McCain's bullshit isn't that attractive.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 09:08:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew:

You're up on all this political crap.  How is the white racist community responding to the possibility of all that "Presidential Power" created by those myriad signing statements finding its way into the hands of a (gasp!) black man?  Giving anyone pause?

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 09:27:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, to be clear, I've never lived in an area in which the white racists were the dominant group.  I've spent plenty of time in those areas (more than I'd ever have cared to), but it's still kind of alien to me.

The old people in South Florida where I grew up are all retired yankees (and all Democrats) who were going to support Obama anyway.  And my time in North Florida was spent in Tallahassee, which you can think of as being Austin, but with a lot less religion and a lot more alcohol.

Now I live in the People's Republic of Northern Virginia, which might go 80% for Obama.  NoVa is a Democratic stronghold, and Obama is more popular than any other Dem in the country here.  It's sort of the socialist version an ATL/Charlotte (a lot of young professionals, high education levels, high incomes, socially very liberal).

The best connection I have to the "Cracker Vote" is through my kinfolk in Ila, Georgia, but it gives me some pretty good insights, I think.  All but one would never vote for Obama.  (And, yes, it's all about the race thing with them.  Even the one who'll vote for him will tell me, "Man, Drew, I hate n___, but this Obama guy's alright by me.")  Integration scares them, and living an hour from Black Mecca makes for some interesting dynamics.  But they're all slowly getting used to the idea.  They might even change their minds if he wins and does well.

Their jobs in the factory are long gone to China (they all work at either the dump or the cable company).  The gas shortages in Atlanta are killing them, as is the declining housing market in the exurbs.  They're hurting, and they're sick of Bush.  They don't care for McCain.  They all think Palin is a nutcase and really hate her for the whole shooting-wolves-from-airplanes thing, because, as I've pointed out, their response to that is: "That's not hunting.  It's sick."

They kinda like Joe Biden, even though he's a pinko in their eyes.  They'll all openly admit that Obama would be better for them than McCain, but they can't seem to make the jump.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:19:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank You.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 04:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Being a Southerner, born and bred, I am able to overcome the psychological barrier to voting for a "black" man by just thinking of Obama not as half black but half white! I recommend anyone, particularly Yankee friends who might also harbor a racially motivated bias against self interest, to give it a try.  Of course, the fact that Virginians have already had a mostly black governor, Democrat Doug Wilder (1990-94)(the first African American to be elected governor of any U.S. State) without calamitous results, helped to calm many White fears and has probably smoothed the way for Mr. Obama.

Last week, while in Alabama, where this old racist was educated, I had a chance to discuss politics with a few local citizens, some black, some white, and some in between colors.  Seems lots of people haven't made up their minds.  One African American women, who was watching the debate, told me she likes Obama; but she thought both candidates are good men. Her husband is leaning towards McCain. I told her I had made up my mind and that I couldn't stand anyone running from the Republican Party.  So, I would have to vote for Obama despite the fact he could be considered half black by some.  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 11:23:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"So, I would have to vote for Obama despite the fact he could be considered half black by some. "

I admire your sincerity -and your choice in this vote. But for the life of me, I can't understand how someone can consciously make skin colour a factor in a vote.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 01:00:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry to disappoint you, but my intent was not to be taken completely seriously. Rather, it was a feeble attempt at sarcasm over the issue of race and sectionalism in America, and not just for this election. I have no problem with voting for or against a man or woman regardless of their skin color or claims of racial identity. I do find it ironic, however, that Barack Obama is labeled by most as "black" despite the fact his mother was caucasian. There was a time in some US States that matters of parentage and racial identity were codified, but those labels were discontinued long ago. Some of the material(the conversation with the African American woman, for instance, did take place but the reference to Obama being half black or half white was fictional.  I used it just to illustrate the point that race is really irrelevant to many people.

I was reared in a racially segregated society and did not begin to think for myself about American racial issues until I was about 18 years of age. I came of age in the Southern U.S. during the civil rights movement era (60s-70s) and experienced an awakening of sorts over the following years starting during a short stint in the US Navy where I met several young African American men from our community and had a chance to deal with them on a personal basis. I would guess that my views on race problems(cause and effect) in America are somewhat different in the aggregate from what most people expect but they are mine.

I do bristle when someone singles out the Southern US to negatively highlight racial issues.  Prejudice in America does not have regional boundaries and to claim otherwise is sheer hypocrisy.

I do not deny that many in the South remain prejudiced against men and women of color, some violently so, but the reasons vary and are more complicated than one might expect.  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I bristle at that as well.  I think racism is more open in the South, but it's also right to point out that prejudice, as far as campaigns go, has often shown itself most in places that are not stereotyped as racist.  The Bradley race was in California, after all.  The fact that it's perhaps more open down here also means we know what we're dealing with.

A lot of people talk about the "Pennsyltucky" part of Pennsylvania.  Guess what?  Obama's pulling almost even there, which never happens for Dems.

Further, many of the presumed most-racist places are some of the places that have been the first to elect black officials.  Louisiana delivered our first two black senators.  (Granted, that was prior to the Great Migration and wouldn't likely happen in modern-day Louisiana.)  Virginia, our first elected black governor.  Massachusetts -- home of Boston, allegedly the most racist city in the North -- elected the second black governor.

And Obama is, of course, winning Virginia, Florida and North Carolina.  He may well come very close -- might even win for all we know now -- in Georgia, which may elect the third black governor (if Shirley Franklin runs to succeed Sonny Perdue).

It's not that the stereotypes are completely wrong.  There's a lot of racism in the South.  But the portrayal of the racially-backwards South vs the harmonious rest is ridiculous.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would I be right in thinking that racial prejudice is masked by class prejudice further North - i.e a professional black is more acceptable than a trailer thrash white?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 01:29:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in my humble opinion, this is often the case, but some Northerners that I've met are just as open in their racism (not class based) as anyone in the South. Others just dodge personal contact with all African Americans whenever possible.  Some African Americans do the same though and don't like whites at all.  A lot depends, I suspect, upon the way they were reared and life experiences.

Actually, despite growing up in a racially segregated society, I find I have more in common, culturally, with African Americans and usually have an easier time forming friendships with them than with most white non-Southerners.  Hundreds of years of sharing the same culture comes through despite the circumstances.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 11:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think most Southerners would admit that in private, even if many would hate to do so.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:12:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect many southern whites hate northern whites more than their black neighbours.

Question:   Would Obama publicly going back into Georgia help or damage Martin against Chambliss?  I.e would it polarise the senate race more and force a greater Martin/Obama identification which would damage Martin - even if it might help Obama in Georgia?

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 11:25:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure.  I'd play it safe and not associate Martin and Obama too much, unless Obama's favorables are into the 50s in the state (which I doubt, but they may be for all I know).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 12:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I assume the political question is for Drew so I won't answer and don't really know the Georgia scene that well.

However, I want to respond to the comment about Southerners hating Northerners.  I don't see a lot of what I would call hate for white Northerners in the South, but I suspect there are some who "have no use" for Northerners.  Despite changes over the past 50 years, a cultural divide continues between the South and other parts of the U.S.  Sometimes I wonder if it's not becoming more pronounced.  My wife recalls overhearing a conversation between two Northerners as their commercial plane was about to land in a Southern State (and I've heard similar remarks so I wasn't surprized). One looking down and out the window stated "...they are different from us you know." The other responded "..yes, they even smell different."

Now, during the civil rights movement there were many Northerners who came South to support the African American movement in one way or the other (e.g., accompanying freedom riders).  They were resented by many Southerners who considered them to be interfering hypocrites, though their intentions may have been good. A few were murdered for their trouble.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 01:01:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also depends on where you are in the South.  As you know, we have a fair number of Northerners in NoVa.  The big southern cities all do, which explains a lot of the political changes taking place (as always: Virginia, NC and Georgia being the obvious examples).  The southern states without big, diverse cities -- basically all of the others -- are obviously the ones in which the cultural divide is most apparent.

Mostly it's a lack of experience that causes it, whether we talk about division by race or region.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 03:58:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We should not overestimate the psychological, subliminal, and even unconscious barriers which had to be overcome before many people could even think of voting for "a black man" as President.  Do not underestimate the importance of prior role models like Colin Powell and Condi Rice in making this thinkable.  Even more apparently trivially, do not underestimate the importance of key black actors like Sydney Potier, Denzil Washington, and even Dennis Haysbert (playing David Palmer as a black President in 24) appearing as competent in roles of grave authority in the popular imagination.

Many of the factors which determine how people vote are almost entirely unconscious - and even unintentional.  If they can imagine a black man as President, that is half the battle won.  Hollywood has played a key role here.  Winning that battle probably only gets Obama to an even playing field - but that is all he needs to win.

It would be fun to list out the roles and actors who have shaped the US subconscious on the possibility/acceptability of Black men in positions of Authority over the years.  Any film buffs around here?


Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 08:53:08 AM EST
Morgan Freeman as President in Deep Impact (1998),

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:00:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and as God in Bruce Almighty?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:20:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Didn't someone mention that Colin Powell has only stopped from endorsing Obama after a personal call from Bush?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:29:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What does Bush have on Powell any longer?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:31:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well there's always the presidential pardon, you never know how much of a paper trail can be left for a war crimes tribuneral....

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:51:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dunno - although I wouldn't have thought he owes Bush anything after the way he was mislead by faulty intelligence into arguing for the Iraq war at the UN.

A late Powell endorsement  for Obama now would be very powerful and would do a lot to further blunt any remaining McCain edge on national security.  

powell comes across as a much more substantial figure than Mccain.

I wonder is this an endorsement Obama is keeping under wraps for a bad news day - e.g. if he "loses" a debate?

Vote McCain for war without gain

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:35:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes.  It was in the news a couple days ago.  I doubt it made much difference.

My hunch all along has been that the Obama campaign has had the Powell endorsement in its back pocket and was simply waiting to time it right.

In fact, I'd bet money that there are others in the Bush administration who are secretly going to pull the lever for Obama (Rice, Laura Bush, etc).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:46:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
>
I'd bet money that there are others in the Bush administration who are secretly going to pull the lever for Obama (Rice, Laura Bush, etc).

After not being let out on the campaign trail I bet even George is going to think twice about who to vote for. Dick at least will phone Obama up and ask how much his vote is worth.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If I were Obama I'd ask him to publicly endorse McCain and do lots of speeches for him about how great he was to support the US enterprise/war etc.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 11:13:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, plead with him not to.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 05:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've just been introducing my grandson to the "Uncle Remus"/Harris story of Br'er Rabbit and the tar baby, hopefully without including any pejorative aspects. The brairpatch equivalent to an endorsement of McCain by Cheney.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 10:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is sad when a knowing and loving portrayal of a people, a time and a place comes to be stigmatized by run -amok "political correctness.  Harris's stories vividly set forth the folk wisdom and resilience of a people.  I loved the stories when my grandmother read them to me at age 5.  However, the Disney movie, Uncle Remus?, greatly upset me and my mother had to take me out of the theater.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 12:15:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree. I tell the story from memory, not mentioning the "Uncle Remus" character and my grandson just loves it.  He wants to hear it again and again. Although Harris' recorded stories have been plagued by controversy over the years (as you state owing to political correctness), I recently saw a new book in Borders Book Store that contained several of them.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 04:01:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bill Cosby.

One of, if not the, first to break the color line on national television.  Later made a continuing splash by his roles as an intelligent, sympathetic, wise father and father-figure.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 12:35:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed.  What about more recent black comedians/actors?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 12:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No idea.

My interests are in 'High-Brow' culture so anybody recently affective I would name, e.g., Kathleen Battle or the Harlem Dance Troupe, would be unknown to most Americans white or black.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 01:00:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that most people can see through the media and Hollywood campaigns to promote African Americans.  However, they certainly don't hurt.

I believe the most effective method, however, is person to person contact.  In this regard the overwhelming majority of the African American community has been just excellent in self representation/promotion.

Just this morning, for example, I was walking/exercising in our local mall.  I spotted an elegantly dressed black lady in high heels exiting a store.  I moved to one side so as not to give the impression I was following her.  Nevertheless, she turned and spoke, joining me stride for stride in an animated, friendly conversation until she reached her destination. I needn't tell you that this rarely if ever happens between white strangers in Northern Virginia.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 01:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It great what a bit of mutual respect, self-confidence and self-esteem can do for people.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 01:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know negative/rovian campaigning is no the best thing to do, but, correct if I am wrong, the video below (found on dKos today) is politically relevant. There seems to be a case to present that Palin flirts with secessionists.


by t-------------- on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 09:30:02 AM EST
Yep - that's been known for a while but I don't know how that would play in US politics - some southern states might like the idea!  On the other hand, the Alaskan's taking their oil/gas and joining OPEC wouldn't play very well either, I suspect!

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 09:52:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the flurry of attacks ads could make the debate quite interesting. In that I suspect that McCain's sense of entitlement means he's going to come in and lecture the upstart about how he was a pow and generally try to push back on live teevee. If Obama starts coming back at him with some truth, I can see McTrain popping a rivet or two. Obama wouldn't have to needle him at all, just refuse to back down and McCain would explode. Man, that'd be a popcorn moment.

But by and large, I think the debates are a joke. I was appalled when I sat through the first primary one. Obama's more or less got this sewn up now. Focus on the Senate race.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 09:46:36 AM EST
Not sewn up yet - there have been a few late swings of c. 8% - but almost.  Obama may soon be able to help Dem Senators in places like Georgia where he also has an outside chance.  It will be interesting to see if McCain tries to pull a stunt or throw a hail mary - he needs a game changer - again - and the last few didn't turn out so well.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 09:55:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We know a couple of things about McCain:

  1.  He panics when things don't go as planned
  2.  He is a gambler
  3.  He has a short temper

Resulting in:

4.  He makes bad decisions under pressure

I wouldn't be surprised if the Obama people are putting in the needle hoping McCain is going to lose his cool during the debate (sic).

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 12:49:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama being cool and intellectually superior is enough to needle him...

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 03:36:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As Palin Brings Up Ayers, Obama Team Cites Keating - washingtonpost.com

The presidential campaign of Sen. Barack Obama for the first time criticized Sen. John McCain for his role in the "Keating Five" savings-and-loan scandal yesterday, saying the issue is fair game after a weekend of attacks by Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin over the Democrat's ties to Vietnam War-era radical William Ayers. -------->

Attempting to link the early-1990s scandal to the current economic crisis, the Obama campaign launched a Web site devoted to "Keating Economics," including a documentary-style video of McCain's involvement and news clips of his Senate testimony. The campaign also sent an e-mail to millions of supporters arguing that then, as now, the Republican lacks judgment on financial oversight during a crisis.

"With so many parallels to the current crisis, McCain's Keating history is relevant and voters deserve to know the facts -- and see for themselves the pattern of poor judgment by John McCain," Obama's campaign



Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 10:28:08 AM EST
Now Palin's taking shots at Biden while he's attending his mother-in-law's funeral.

The woman truly has no class.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 07:14:43 PM EST
All she has left to work with is the racist vote.

The republican alliance between the rich and the fundies was never going to last - now I think we know it is broken. More than just the brutal McCain/Palin ticket, it can't survive the financial crisis.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 03:37:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Frank, where's your Debate II diary?

I thought the first debate was about a tie.  I thought McCain got his ass kicked in the second debate tonight.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 11:02:48 PM EST
Hey - give me time! Its 5.00 am here!

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 11:59:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, sweet Jeebus, this is great: Freepers are losing their shit over McCain proposing the Treasury buy up all the toxic mortgages -- $300bn worth.  Freepers losing. their. shit.

Not only did Obama whip his ass, but McCain also shot himself in the foot with Republicans.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:14:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking around the web, Conservatives are saying McCain is losing because he isn't conservative enough.

Already talking of a Palin run in 2012.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 12:36:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
New Obama wins round 2 diary on debate now up

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 01:08:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They've got to be kidding.

What's she going to do, run for the Senate in 2010?

It's a scary prospect - she's definitely smart enough to be coached effectively.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 02:12:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A landslide victory for Obama will make that about as likely as a Sargent Shriver one in 1976. (Not that I mean to draw any other comparisons between the two, of course).
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 04:32:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know whether Ann Coulter was serious or trolling when she said it, but she preferred Hillary to McCain... Is she rooting for Palin?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 04:37:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
TWO HOURS LATER - MCCAIN VS OBAMA II - IMPRESSIONS
I would love to accept your reasoning because it is so reasonable but, alas, we are not in a season of reason. People who are afraid simply do not vote out of reason or nuance.

What happened last night on television was utterly devastating. Too late, the McCain campaign began this week to do what it should have done months ago and began exposing Obama for the dangerous radical he is. The American people tuned on their televisions and did not see a radical, they saw a man who outwardly appeared presidential. Indeed, he appeared (and in a television debate appearances are everything) more presidential in many respects than did McCain himself.

Watching television, the American people will choose to believe their own eyes and disregard all of the related and uncoordinated attacks as the mere chaff and clutter of every campaign. They are concentrating on only one thing: the financial crisis which McCain has now bungled it for a second time. His half-baked mortgage proposal has succeeded only in shearing off a fragment of his base.

Turn out the lights, the party is over.

As conservatism in this election is reduced to some of the Mountain states and the old Confederacy, as all of the branches of government are denied us, the question for conservatives will be, how do we save the movement and survive the nuclear winter to come so it can save the country?



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 04:22:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh and from further down

TWO HOURS LATER - MCCAIN VS OBAMA II - IMPRESSIONS

McCain could have added that the energy produced by wind, sea or batteries would not be adequate suppliers to produce steel. This is one reason why you need high producer's of electricity such as Coal,Gas or Nuclear to run those electric furnaces. We need power plants that will help keep the steel jobs in the USA.

what's wrong with steel made with renewable energy?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 04:24:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It blows in the wind...

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 08:44:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I soppose that's the answer, my friend.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 10:11:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As conservatism in this election is reduced to some of the Mountain states and the old Confederacy, as all of the branches of government are denied us, the question for conservatives will be, how do we save the movement and survive the nuclear winter to come so it can save the country?

Shit.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 04:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
h/t to Ceebs for link
TWO HOURS LATER - MCCAIN VS OBAMA II - IMPRESSIONS

ABC News' Rick Klein: "[M]cCain is roaming the stage, playing to his strength. And comes out with a policy proposal to help people stay in their homes -- a strong lead answer, to have a meaty response to that. McCain looks confident early." (Rick Klein, "Live Debate Blog," ABC News' "Live Debate Blog," blogs.abcnews.com, 10/7/08)

The New York Times' Katharine Q. Seelye: "Mr. McCain is developing a chatty rapport with Mr. Brokaw about the candidates exceeding their time limits. He seems relaxed, as if he knows he is making a connection on a personal level. He roams the stage. Mr. Obama, who once stood in front of classes as a college professor, stands still while delivering his answers, and this one on health care sounds more like a lecture." (Katharine Q. Seelye, "McCain Warms To The Setting," The New York Times' "The Caucus" Blog, thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com, 10/7/08)

The Politico's Jonathan Martin: "McCain, taking a question from a naval retiree, gives him a pat on the shoulder and a firm handshake. `Everything I ever learned about leadership, I learned from a chief petty officer,' says one old sailor to another. It was surely a moment that won a lot of nodding heads from vets all over the country." (Jonathan Martin, "Vets And Servicemembers Had To Love This Moment," The Politico's "Jonathan Martin" Blog, www.politico.com, 10/7/08)

* Martin: "McCain unveils a new pork-barrel project to be condemned: an overhead projector for a planetarium in Chicago that was included in Obama's earmarks." (Jonathan Martin, "The New Bears In Montana!!!" The Politico's "Jonathan Martin" Blog, www.politico.com, 10/7/08)

* Martin: "A strong close by the GOPer with: `We can't afford somebody who needs on the job training, my friend.'" (Jonathan Martin, "McCain In Comfort Zone On National Security," The Politico's "Jonathan Martin" Blog, www.politico.com, 10/7/08)

* Martin: "Right at the outset, [McCain] offers empathy: `Americans are angry, they're upset, and they're a little fearful.'" (Jonathan Martin, "McCain's `I Feel Your Pain' Moment," The Politico's "Jonathan Martin" Blog, www.politico.com, 10/7/08)

CNN's Candy Crowley: "McCain seemed to answer first question [on a rescuing main street] better." (Candy Crowley, "How Tough Is Too Tough?" CNN's "Political Ticker" Blog, politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com, 10/7/08)

CNN's Bill Schneider: "That's a pretty fundamental question should there be for profit health care? Obama's answer...he's not answering the question." (Bill Schneider, "Obama Not Answering The Question," CNN's "Political Ticker" Blog, www.cnn.com, 10/7/08)

* Schneider: "McCain's tone is better at talking to the audience..." (Bill Schneider, "Are The Candidates Relating To The Audience," CNN's politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com, 10/7/08)

MSNBC's Pat Buchanan: "I think McCain did come in with more heart and more fight. And I agree with you, he was the aggressor. He was throwing the punches. He did it in a better way than he did it last week when I thought he had won on points. Here he smiled. He looked at his opponent. He looked at Tom Brokaw. He talked to the audience, and he did it in a more calm fashion. And I think he clearly scored more points than Barack Obama did." (MSNBC, 10/7/08)

National Review's Lisa Schiffren: "Is it necessary to explain the basics? McCain is doing really well with the audience in the room by doing so. Does it translate to the TV audience? McCain is really sounding clear, energetic and firm." (Lisa Schiffren, "Talking Down To The Audience," National Review's "The Corner" Blog, corner.nationalreview.com, 10/7/08)

Commentary's John Podhoretz: "This is McCain's mantra. I know how. I know how. Here's what I will do." (John Podhoretz, "I Know How To Do That," Commentary's "Contentions" Blog, www.commentarymagazine.com, 10/7/08)

Commentary's Daniel Casse: "[M]cCain is delivering tight, crisp, and extremely effective answers. Every answer has a similar structure: (a) I care about this issue (b) I've stood up against Bush/special interests on this issue (c) Obama has never taken a stand, never acted on this (d) so let's compare records." (Daniel Casse, "McCain's Well-Structured Answers," Commentary's "Contentions" Blog, www.commentarymagazine.com, 10/7/08)

CNN's David Gergen: "I thought John McCain was more effective than he was last time on domestic policy. I thought his answers in general were more organized and he made his points more effectively." (CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," 10/7/08)

Fox News' Charles Krauthammer: "McCain won the first hour on domestic (issues)." (Fox News' "Presidential Debate," 10/7/08)

ABC's George Stephanopoulos: "I thought Senator McCain started out very strong when he said we have to address this financial crisis by having a plan to buy up all of the bad mortgages in the country showed real compassion and empathy there..." (ABC's "The Candidates Debate," 10/7/08)

* Stephanopoulos: "I was also struck in the way that both candidates handled the stage tonight ... As we know Senator McCain wanted these town hall meetings all year long against Senator Obama. He made a crack against that. He is comfortable in this setting." (ABC's "The Candidates Debate," 10/7/08)

ABC's Charlie Gibson: "I do think if there was any new proposal in the debate, it was what John McCain said about buying up the struggling home loan mortgages and renegotiate them at a new value, have the government do that." (ABC's "The Candidates Debate," 10/7/08)

The Washington Post's Chris Cillizza: "Nice moment for McCain: he claps a man (Terry Scherry) who asks about Iran on the shoulder and they shake hands." (Chris Cillizza, "The Nashville Skyline Debate," The Washington Post's "The Fix" Blog, www.washingtonpost.com, 10/7/08)

NBC's Chuck Todd: "[M]cCain did get stronger, I think, as the night went on. When it turned to foreign policy, you can see his comfort zone and you could see him getting more comfortable " (NBC's "Presidential Debate Coverage," 10/7/08)

NBC's Andrea Mitchell: "I think he was very comfortable in the format ... McCain was walking around approaching some of the questioners. Thanking them. Actually coming quite close to them. ... And as Chuck has pointed out, with the economy in such a tail spin, he came armed with a new proposal to have the government buy up failing mortgages ... That was a gutsy move." (NBC's "Presidential Debate Coverage," 10/7/08)

The Politico's Ben Smith: "Really, the first of the night. McCain takes a question from a Navy veteran. `Everything I ever learned about leadership, I learned from chief petty officer,' he says, walking over to the man and patting his shoulder." (Ben Smith, "A Connection," The Politico's "Ben Smith" Blog, www.politico.com, 10/7/08)

Commentary's Jennifer Rubin: "On Afghanistan, Iraq and Russia McCain talks in action words what we will do, what will work and what our goals will be. Although he obviously wants to assure voters he will show restraint, his real strength is projecting a force of will and determination." (Jennifer Rubin, "National Security," Commentary's "Contentions" Blog, www.commentarymagazine.com, 10/7/08)

National Review's Mark Levin: "And he has shown more energy than usual. Obama is supposed to be the great orator (what happened to the messiah and the fainting?). The 72-year-old McCain has the upper-hand on the 47-year-old messiah, IMHO." (Mark Levin, "In Defense Of McCain," National Review's "The Corner" Blog, corner.nationalreview.com, 10/7/08)

CNN's Bill Bennett: "The last comments [John McCain] made, I thought, were quite impressive and quite moving." (CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," 10/7/08)



Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 08:45:45 AM EST
I don't know about McCain seeming more comfortable on foreign policy.  The dials apparently went straight up for Obama when he talked about diplomacy with Iran leading to a likelihood of better outcomes and framed the "No talking" side as Bushian.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 8th, 2008 at 10:16:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not only is this election over but it yjrdr snslydtd vsreers ought to be over. The idea of no regulations-leave business alone while 10% of the population reaps all the benefits at the expense of everyone else will no longer be the cw in the media as their corporate parents realize what Lincoln said is true.

Now these ogres will try and hang on but the next time the RePubs and their paid for chattering class say universal healthcare etc isnt an option will no longer be heard with the same credibility as before.

My hope is Obama hits the ground running and has the 60 Dem Senators to override fillibusters and sticks a 'two by four' in the forehead of the free marketers and the greedy bloodsuckers who have gamed the system for far too long. I believe Obama has had to play it very cool in order to be elected but I dont believe he will when he becomes President as the times will dictate 'radical for the US' programs and his majorities in Congress will realize just how powerful Obama is in keeping them elected. He did train with Alinsky in Chicago and has seen grinding poverty in both Chicago and the world so has a point of view unlike any President in my lifetime.

We hope out of 'lemons will be lemonade'.

Yes We Can

by An American in London on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 01:39:51 PM EST


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