European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

A German and 2 French researchers are awarded Nobel Prize in Medicine - International Herald Tribune

Oh, Oh - did you have a OT up Jérôme? I was wondering why had problems posting mine. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 09:20:08 AM EST

OT = Other Topic (4.00 / 2)

STOCKHOLM: Harald zur Hausen of Germany and the French researchers Françoise Barré-Sinoussi and Luc Montagnier were announced Monday as the winners of the 2008 Nobel Prize in Medicine.
Barré-Sinoussi, of the Institut Pasteur in Paris, and Montagnier, director of the World Foundation for AIDS Research and Prevention, were cited for their discovery of human immunodeficiency virus, or HIV, which causes AIDS.
Zur Hausen was cited for finding human papilloma viruses that cause cervical cancer, the second most common cancer among women.
The German scientist received half of the prize, worth 10 million kronor, or $1.4 million, while the two French researchers shared the other half.
In its citation, the Nobel Assembly said Barré-Sinoussi's and Montagnier's discovery was one prerequisite for the current understanding of the biology of AIDS and its antiretroviral treatment. The pair's work in the early 1980s made it possible to clone the HIV-1 genome.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 09:20:42 AM EST

Re: OT = Other Topic (4.00 / 3)

Robert Gallo is not going to be happy

Today it is generally agreed that Montagnier's group first identified HIV, although Gallo's group is credited with much of the science that made the discovery possible, and to demonstrating that it causes AIDS. Gallo's group also was the first to grow the virus in an immortalized cell line, leading to the development of blood tests for HIV and the ability to screen donated blood for this virus. Also, Gallo insisted the work of Montagnier had relied on a technique previously developed by Gallo for growing T cells in the laboratory by supplementing interleukin-2. The two scientists continued be at the center of a bitter dispute between the United States and France over royalties from the blood test patent until 1987, when they agreed to share credit for the discovery of HIV. In the November 29, 2002, issue of Science, Gallo and Montagnier published a series of articles, one of which was co-written by both scientists, in which they acknowledged the pivotal roles that each had played in the discovery of HIV.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 09:32:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Stock injection an option in US bail-out bill (4.00 / 3)

Was The Bailout Bill A Good Idea? : NPR

If a stock-injection plan is better for the taxpayers, why wouldn't the government choose it over the Paulson plan? It turns out that many groups oppose the idea, Davidson says.
One group is conservative Republicans. "They just don't fundamentally, in their guts, don't like the idea of the U.S. government owning shares of private companies," he says. "It just smells like socialism to them and they can't support it."
Perhaps more importantly, banks really hate the idea. When the government took over insurance giant AIG, it essentially bought a huge share of the bank's shares and zeroed them out. All the shareholders lost billions of dollars and the chief executive of AIG was fired to boot.
So it was surprising to learn on Friday that, despite intense opposition from the powerful banking lobby, language authorizing the government to use a stock-injection plan did make it into the final version of the bailout bill. The law does not make a stock-injection plan mandatory, but it does leave it as one option that the Treasury secretary can use when bailing out a distressed bank.

Just heard this on This American Life.

Anyone know anything about it? How significant is the existence of such a "loop-hole" for using stock injection?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 09:52:47 AM EST

Re: Stock injection an option in US bail-out bill (4.00 / 2)

Depends who is Secretary of the Treasury.

I can't see Paulson using it, but if Obama wins the election, a new SecTreas might use it in the new year.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:01:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

For Migeru:

http://www.rgemonitor.com/euro-monitor/253042/what_is_the_risk_of_a_serious_melt-down_in_the_spanish _economy

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:12:15 AM EST

May I read it, Metatone? (;

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Feel free.. I was just trying to attract Migeru's attention to it... ;)

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:30:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's been three months and the sky didn't fall on our heads...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:34:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dow Jones Index below 10,000 (4.00 / 6)

for the first time since Oct. 2004. Mission Accomplished. Again.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:13:29 AM EST

Re: Dow Jones Index below 10,000 (4.00 / 3)

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:00:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dow Jones Index below 10,000 (4.00 / 3)

FTSE down 7% on the day.

I'll raise your WHEEEEEEEEE! and see you an OHSHITOHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT™

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:17:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

See your FTSE 7%, raise you CAC 9.04% (4.00 / 2)

Chute historique des Bourses européennes - La crise financière - Le Monde.fr		Historic drop in Europe's stock exchanges - The financial crisis - The Monde.fr
Plombées par les inquiétudes sur l'extension de la crise financière en Europe et tirées vers le bas par Wall Street, les Bourses européennes ont fortement chuté lundi 6 octobre. A Paris, après avoir perdu jusqu'à 9,77 % à 16 h 50, le CAC 40 a finalement terminé en très forte baisse de 9,04 %, son plus fort recul en une séance depuis sa création en 1988. Avant la création de l'indice, le marché parisien avait chuté de 9,64 % le 19 octobre 1987.		Weighed down by concerns over the extension of the financial crisis in Europe and drawn down by Wall Street, European stock markets fell sharply Monday on October 6. In Paris, after losing 9.77% up to 16 h 50, the CAC 40 was finally completed in very sharp decline 9.04%, its largest decline in one session since its inception in 1988. Before the creation of the index, the Paris market had fallen by 9.64% on 19 October 1987.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

European markets gripped in panic (none / 1)

Gamelle historique à la Bourse de Paris - Libération		Historic Fall on the Paris Stock Exchange - Liberation
Partout en Europe les Bourses sont prises de panique. A Paris, le CAC 40 a connu le plus fort recul depuis sa création, en 1988: - 9,04%.		Across Europe stock markets are gripped in panic. In Paris, the CAC 40 has experienced the greatest decline since its inception in 1988: - 9.04%.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dow Jones Index below 10,000 (none / 0)

Ibex 35 is down 6.07% to 10,726. That's in Madrid. Yeah, we have a stock market. Imagine that.

And since the economy minister is in Luxembourg, we don't know the outcome of the meeting of big bank/saving bank heads with Zapatero this afternoon.

The ..... PP, head of Caja Madrid, Blesa, had already said in an interview that something should be done "doesn´t know in what line".......... and wants the guarantees to be increased. He knows shit.

(It´s in madriddiario)

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kyiv Post. » Business » Trading suspended on Russia's MICEX after 15 percent plunge

MOSCOW (AP) _ Trading has been suspended on Russia's leading stock exchange after shares plunged by more han 15 percent amid a backdrop of falling oil prices and fears over the global economy.

Trading was halted on MICEX at 1:35 p.m. (0935GMT) for one hour Monday. Shares fell by 15.4 percent to 781.8 points.
The benchmark RTS index fell by 13.9 percent to 921.7 points, but continued to trade.
Mining firm Norilsk Nickel fell by 25 percent on the MICEX. State-backed lender Sberbank by 16 percent and state-controlled oil major Rosneft by 17.4 percent.
In September, growing financial turmoil in the United States and tumbling oil prices sent the Russian stock markets into their biggest downward spiral since 1998. The MICEX lost 25 percent in just three days.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 10:37:39 AM EST

The History of the Guitar : Part One

hope this can be seen on non-UK isps. Anyway this is just the acoustic bit, but it features Django Reinhardt and Maybelle Carter, so it's still fun.

Next week comes the proper stuff with loud, hi-voltage mayhem a-plenty.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:00:19 AM EST

Interesting.

Just bought two guitars -- a six-string banjo and a hollow-body electric. Having a blast with both.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:03:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

cool, is that a banjo-guitar hybrid? what hollowbody did you get?

i'm retaking up flute, found a nice gemeinhardt in the classifieds.

windpower!

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Helen, the video is only available in the UK!

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:07:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dang, I don't know how to fix that, but I'm sure somebody knows a way around that.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:23:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rats. Would like to see it very much, but unavailable outside the UK.

Useful talking follows experience, the more experience the better. Talking that precedes experience is known as bullshit.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

C'mon guys. There must be someone on this site who can fix this. someone ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:03:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there are quite a few links available on how to watch iplayer from abroad, but not having tried it I can't comment on which to try.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And if you manage, there was another series starting to night the called the story of maths which might be equally interesting to some people here.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 05:11:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

EU leaders pledge to protect banking system | Politics | guardian.co.uk

Europe will take "whatever measures are necessary to maintain the stability of the financial system", EU leaders said today.
As Alistair Darling, the chancellor, prepared to give a statement to parliament on the economic crisis, EU heads of government acknowledged the need for closer international cooperation.
"All the leaders of the European Union make clear that each of them will take whatever measures are necessary to maintain the stability of the financial system - whether through liquidity support through central banks, action to deal with individual banks or enhanced depositor protection schemes," a statement issued on behalf of all EU heads of government, said.
"While no depositors in our countries' banks have lost any money, we will continue to take the necessary measures to protect both the system and individual depositors. In taking these measures, European leaders acknowledge the need for close coordination and cooperation."

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:00:47 AM EST

Now while I share fran's concern that, for a european website, we spend a lot of time obsessing about US politics, can the USians tell me how solid all of the poll movements are ?

Ever since the larks & escapades McCain atempted leading up to the first presidential debate, his poll ratings have gone seriously south taking most of the other races with him. Talking of long coat-tails, McCain/Bush is just handing an anchor to a lot of drowning repugs right now. It's one of those things where I look at the numbers and wonder if I should really believe what I'm seeing.

Is it over ? And will you make 60 dems in the Senate ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:42:51 AM EST

Pretty solid. For now, depending on what we get from Gallup, it's going to be three straight days of Obama leading by 8.25 when you average the four main trackers. Might expand too, because Ras is picking up a shift in party ID back to the Dems while dropping weeks when GOP ID was going up from his rolling average.

Nate Silver's now talking about Obama winning Georgia because of black turnout skyrocketing in these early voting numbers (40% of voters so far are black, compared with 25% in 2004). The math is there to do it if Obama can get his people to the polls.

By my math -- and I'm reassured that Nate's is basically the same, and that I'm perhaps being too pessimistic -- all he needs in Georgia is to get black turnout up to 31% of the electorate. If it's 35% or more, he wins it, and that probably signals that he'll slaughter McCain in VA and NC. If it somehow stayed at 40% (not likely), he'd win Georgia by double digits.

It's not over until all the votes are counted, but McCain's in deep shit. Every time he gets ready to launch a big personal attack, the stock market crashes and Obama rises in the polls. He pulled out of Michigan. He may pull out of the Scandinavian Northwest soon, as well as Pennsylvania.

PPP has new polls in the field in NC and Ohio, and, according to Tom Jensen over there, Obama's polling very well in both. He's even closed the gap in Appalachia to 6 points in the latter, after Bush won the region by 18 four years ago.

At this point, it seems to me McCain's only hope of victory is to forfeit Iowa and New Mexico while trying to hold all of the other Bush states. Meaning, he has to run the table on Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, Colorado, Ohio, Missouri, and Indiana.

And now perhaps Georgia, and then (if the trend continued for another week or so) perhaps even Mississippi or Montana.

The thing is: If, come election day, McCain is even sweating an Indiana or a North Carolina (let alone a Georgia or a Mississippi), I don't see how he'll even come close.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:01:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Also, remember that, while it could shift back to McCain, an 8%+ lead in October is a very different beast from an 8%+ lead in June or July. We're getting down to the wire, and even GOP strategists are starting to suggest that voters are digging their heels in.

McCain needs a game-changing event -- something more than sending that dumb hick of a running mate out to talk about Bill Ayers. Hardly anybody beyond Sean Hannity's viewers and a few cowering liberals knows who the hell Bill Ayers is, and, as Obama was all of 7 or 8 years old when Ayers was doing his Weather Underground thing, people simply aren't likely to care when the Dow's dropping 400-800 points day in and day out.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:09:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I wonder how Rove is feeling at this moment. He must feel the world has turned on its head, he's throwing everything he's ever understood about how to win elections at this one and everything goes wrong or, worse, boosts Obama.

Every attack has been kung fu'ed into advantage for the opponent, every smear laughed at, the energising of the base has run into the sand. He must feel that, just as the 1000 year reich was in his grasp, it turns to ashes in his hands.

I can't wait for the warts an all book where he trashes McCain and tells the truth about Palin.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama ain't stupid. He saw this shit from the last go-around and was prepared. Rove needs to come up with a new playbook for Gingrich, assuming there ARE any more elections.

Next STOP: Police State!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:57:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Boom.

Virginia (SurveyUSA):

Obama 53
McCain 43

Virginia (Suffolk):

Obama 51
McCain 39

That'll teach McCain's brother a lesson for bashing Arlington and Alexandria as "Communist Country". We'll bury his ass.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Drew J Jones:

That'll teach McCain's brother a lesson for bashing Arlington and Alexandria as "Communist Country". We'll bury his ass.

Communist...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:46:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, okay, we're socialists up here, not communists.

I was so happy to see those polls after he went out to Loudon County and bashed us. "How'dya like them apples, douchebag?"

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 12:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Excuse me???????? (none / 0)

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excuse me???????? (none / 0)

Drew was referring to McCain's brother, not you.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excuse me???????? (none / 0)

Yes.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Excuse me???????? (4.00 / 3)

McCain's brother being McAbel.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:05:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Other weaknesses for McCain (4.00 / 2)

Now that he is down and looking foolish, perhaps this will get some traction:

Mishaps mark John McCain's record as naval aviator
Three crashes early in his career led Navy officials to question or fault his judgment.
By Ralph Vartabedian and Richard A. Serrano, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers October 6, 2008
John McCain was training in his AD-6 Skyraider on an overcast Texas morning in 1960 when he slammed into Corpus Christi Bay and sheared the skin off his plane's wings.
McCain recounted the accident decades later in his autobiography. "The engine quit while I was practicing landings," he wrote. But an investigation board at the Naval Aviation Safety Center found no evidence of engine failure. The 23-year-old junior lieutenant wasn't paying attention and erred in using "a power setting too low to maintain level flight in a turn," investigators concluded. The crash was one of three early in McCain's aviation career in which his flying skills and judgment were faulted or questioned by Navy officials.
In his most serious lapse, McCain was "clowning" around in a Skyraider over southern Spain about December 1961 and flew into electrical wires, causing a blackout, according to McCain's own account as well as those of naval officers and enlistees aboard the carrier Intrepid. In another incident, in 1965, McCain crashed a T-2 trainer jet in Virginia.
After McCain was sent to Vietnam, his plane was destroyed in an explosion on the deck of an aircraft carrier in 1967. Three months later, he was shot down during a bombing mission over Hanoi and taken prisoner. He was not faulted in either of those cases and was later lauded for his heroism as a prisoner of war.
As a presidential candidate, McCain has cited his military service -- particularly his 5 1/2 years as a POW. But he has been less forthcoming about his mistakes in the cockpit.

Having a father who was commander of the US Pacific Fleet at the time kept McCain from having to experience real consequences for his lapses in judgment. His only really bad experience due to his poor judgment was having to sit in front of the Senate Ethics Committee with the other Keating Five while being "criticized."

Charles Keating was his political mentor and backer, McCain had carried his water to help him avoid oversight while he created a fraudulent monster that was, by itself, comparable to all of the rest of the bad Savings and Loan Banks together. He tried to make amends with McCain-Feingold, but learned nothing regarding the need for effective regulation.

In addition, I have seen criticisms of McCain's actions while a POW. It was alleged that, immediately after his capture and while badly injured, the North Vietnamese demanded and received critical information on US Navy operations procedures that caused the Navy to significantly alter and scale back some of their operations over North Vietnam.

I didn't save the reference as I thought it would never gain traction and would just be seen a cheap smear of McCain. (I think I could find it with an hours work.) Having been in a situation where I could feel the effects of raging internal infections while being assured of the proven efficacy of the drugs and the dosage by the doctor, I don't fault him for his actions. I think the standard is stupid and imposes unnecessary burdens on US military personnel. But, if it is true, it certainly shows additional character flaws in McCain when he touts his actions as a POW as his chief credential to be Commander In Chief.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 01:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Other weaknesses for McCain (4.00 / 5)

The first accident, funnily enough, is called a pancake landing.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:24:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In addition, I have seen criticisms of McCain's actions while a POW. It was alleged that, immediately after his capture and while badly injured, the North Vietnamese demanded and received critical information on US Navy operations procedures...

Find that article and match it with the data in this article for any date similarities. It goes into some of the times that the Vietnamese radar people took advantage of data from captured pilots.
Technology and Ideology in the Vietnamese Defense of Hanoi, 1967

Just as a by-the-way, the first article in that same edition of The Journal of Military History
Volume 67, Number 1, January 2003is a terrific jaunt called
Kautilya's Arthasastra on War and Diplomacy in Ancient India, which gives an introduction of the king Ashoka, who had a cathartic moment that one wishes many rulers have.

Namaste to all.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/BourneMarine/SOpXz_8m6QI/AAAAAAAAAEc/nkpYomhmEeo/20553320.Namaste.jpg

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:45:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I found this in my "sent e-mail" for Sept. 14, 2008. I can not find it by searching CounterPunch. Perhaps they were "counterpunched" by RNC attorneys!

CounterPunch vol 15, no 15
Giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy
McCain's 14th Amendment Problem
By Douglas Valentine
Technically, the 14th Amendment
to the U.S. Constitution prohibits
John McCain from becoming
president of the United States.
Section III of the Amendment says,
"No person shall ... hold any office, civil
or military, under the United States ...
who, having previously taken an oath ...
as an officer of the United States ... to
support the Constitution of the United
States, shall have ... given aid or comfort
to the enemies thereof."
It is a fact that McCain was an officer
in the U.S. Navy and took an oath
to "bear true faith and allegiance" to the
Constitution. This was a solemn appeal to
Jehovah to smite him silly in the event he
lied about or broke his oath. If he fell into
captivity, he was bound by the Military
Code of Conduct not to answer questions
or make any oral or written statements
disloyal or harmful to the U.S. To
do so was considered collaborating with
the enemy, and meant yet another mighty
swipe from Jehovah.
It is also a fact that, in 1967, Lieutenant
Commander John McCain was shot out
of the sky while dropping bombs on
North Vietnamese civilians. McCain's
plane crashed in a lake, and he suffered
some broken bones and was slapped
around after he was rescued. And all
of that hurt, but none of it reached the
Rumsfeld-Bush-Cheney standard for torture.
Yet after a mere four days, McCain
cracked like a robin's egg. He told his captors,
"I'll give you military information if
you will take me to the hospital."1
In his autobiography McCain elaborated,
saying, "I gave them my ship's
name and squadron number, and confirmed
that my target had been the power
plant."2
It is alleged that McCain gave the
numbers of aircraft in his flight formation,
information about location of rescue
ships, and the order of which his attack
was supposed to take place. According
to retired Army Colonel Earl Hopper,
McCain divulged classified information
North Vietnam used to hone their air
defense system, including "the package
routes, which were routes used to bomb
North Vietnam. He gave in detail the altitude
they were flying, the direction, if
they made a turn ... he gave them what
primary targets the United States was interested
in." As result, Hopper claims, the
U.S. lost 60 per cent more aircraft, and
in 1968 "called off the bombing of North
Vietnam, because of the information
McCain had given to them."3
What is Jehovah waiting for?
As became evident during the revisionist
Republican Convention, McCain's
political fortunes balance precariously on
the myth that he never collaborated, even
under torture. On Saturday, September 6,
in Colorado, Sarah Palin wowed the faithful
with an apocryphal story that brought
tears to their eyes. As McCain stood beside
her, feigning humility, she told how
"Tom," one of McCain's fellow POWs,
would watch through a peephole in his
cell as the guards would walk McCain
down the hall to the torture chamber.
"Day after day after day," Sara said - as if
these torture sessions happened to every
day for five and a half years - McCain
would come back from the waterboard
and, as he passed Tom, give the thumb's
up and flash a boyish smile.
Forget for a moment that McCain, by
his own admission, broke after four days
of pain and anxiety and spilled classified
military secrets in order to get medical
help. After that, was he even tortured at
all?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:35:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

IOKIYAR

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Help! My sprained brain cannot reliably come up with the proper expansions for all of these "Acronyms."

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's OK If You're A Republican.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Once almighty, now apparently of historical interest.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 05:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Other weaknesses for McCain (4.00 / 2)

Look them up here.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 05:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just read your comment about Medicare & Medicad. (For you Yurpeans that's what passes in the US for Healthcare for old folks.)

Bye-bye Florida!

That's 27 Electoral Votes that'll come in handy.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The internals of the SurveyUSA poll are horrible for McCain.

McCain no longer leads in any region of the state. In Northeastern VA, which includes the DC suburbs, Obama leads by 24 points. In Central Virginia, home of the Confederate White House, the Museum of the Confederacy and Appomattox, Obama today leads by 8. In Southeastern Virginia, Obama leads by 11. In the Shenandoah, where John McCain led by 24 points one month ago, Obama and McCain today tie.

If this and the +6 Obama in Colorado holds for the next week it's 'Piss on the fire and call the dogs in' time. Obama's going to take it.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 01:05:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Confederate White House and Museum of the Confederacy are in Richmond. Why are they shocked he's winning there?

Yes, the internals are awful for Shithead. If you believe he's going to take more than 5% of black folks, I've got a bridge in Alaska I'd love to sell you. This reads like a textbook fuck-up (but in an awesome way) from our friends at SUSA.

Finding Obama pulling even in Appalachia is absolutely stunning. Certainly explains a lot in VA, NC and GA. Now even the South Carolina Dems are telling him not to count them out.

Side note: Apparently the polling places in Fulton, Cobb and DeKalb counties in Georgia are absolutely mobbed every day with early voters, and it's only getting bigger. Still running at 40% black. Still reports of the kids showing up. You watch: We may just sneak up on the pollsters and take Georgia.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 08:15:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it over ? And will you make 60 dems in the Senate ?

At the moment, counting the socialist with the dems, but not counting the CfL representative, I see only 57. Franken is very close in Minnesota, which would make 58. The other possibilities are GA and MS, where the republican seems to have a narrow lead right now.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know.

This election has been so screwball I'm not counting anything out.

One scenario: huge Democrat turn-out in Mississippi, Georgia, 1-2% of GOP voters stay home, and they could both flip.

There's a Star-Ledger poll out of Minnesota giving Obama an 18 point lead. With that type of lead, and any kind of "coattails" Franken can nab it. BTW, the second hardest job in US politics is defeating an incumbent Senator.

I'm not saying any of this will happen but it's looking more likely that it will happen.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 01:11:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Star-Ledger poll also gave Franken a 9-point lead.

Just gotta be patient. I think Al will pull through, although it wouldn't hurt for Obama to go pay a visit to lend him a hand.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 08:19:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain is going to be in Albuquerque tomorrow before flying out to the debate -- visiting a state where he has no hope of winning when: Indiana, Missouri, North Carolina, Florida, Ohio, Virginia, & etc. etc. etc. are slipping away.

Given-up trying to make sense of the McCain campaign.

To answer the question ...

Yes, ~~Virginia~~ Helen the polls are real. Right now the odds of an Obama Landslide (375+ EVs out of 538) are twice that of a McCain win. (~29% to ~14.5% -- last I looked.)

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:47:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He no longer wants it. He knows that the Presidency would be too much work for him. And he'd go down as the most incompetent fool in history.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:52:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah.

And I'll prove it using 3 letters:

G. W. B.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Howard Wolfson this morning said the race was over.

They've really blitzed McCain at astonishing speed on Keating 5, and McCain's response has been to basically change his entire story on the scandal.

They've been reduced to using Obama's middle name.

Obama Landslide vs McCain win is at about 28% vs 13%, but I expect the spread will be wider tonight when Nate's model digests the blockbuster polling today.

And think of it: These are lagging indicators. Gonna be several days before today's poll show up at the state level.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Caribou Barbie drags out the Ayer (non) story.

McCain changes his story on the Keating 5.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:13:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

North Carolina (PPP poll):

Obama 50
McCain 44

Southern firewall no longer crumbling but collapsed.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is getting ridiculous.

And even Texas is starting to move:

[The] Park Cities [wealthiest part of Dallas] ... Texas Rep. Dan Branch commissioned a Baselice & Associates poll of his district the week after the Republican convention, and what he found was surprising. While McCain was enjoying a national "Palin bounce," District 108 wasn't feeling the love. Branch's poll found that 47 percent of voters planned to pull the lever for Obama, only 45 percent for McCain.

If the AAs turn-out and Latinos follow or do a couple of points better than the national trend Texas may very well flip.

We've got to start questioning if the GOP will be a major political party after this election.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:31:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are there any major political personalities left in the GOP?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Beyond Caribou Barbie? Not that I can think of. All of their good-looking people are dumber than bricks, and all of their good-sounding people look like John McCain.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:36:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah; but do any of them start out their careers with the advantage that McCain has - being a war criminal in advance, instead of having to waste hundreds of thousands of lives to become one post-election, and prove worthy of wearing the Mission Accomplished Cod-Piece?

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 05:28:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The GOP has never had anyone except trolls. Unfortunately it's taken a small minority of the population - the swing-oriented people, plus some of the Republican faithful - eight years to realise this. And only after the collapse of almost everything.

So - sick of trolls now.

Better late than never. I suppose.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 06:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nationally? Not really.

Huckabee, the former Governor of Arkansas, comes closest. He istoo populist - raised taxes to fund education, the scum - for the GOP, as a whole, to swallow.

Over the last two years everybody else has flamed-out.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 12:57:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Who would've thought the way to win the South for Democrats would be to run a black guy.

You can't make this stuff up.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 04:35:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

watch out for ghouliani, he's not fully spent yet.

also the huckster's a dark horse...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 05:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Huck's not dead, and hey may well run again (that or he'll become a media guy and just make money).

Rudy Mussolini, however, is d-e-a-d dead. His Sex On The City scandal ruined him, and he looks like the hunchback of Notre Dame. He's got no prayer of ever being nominated by his party anyway.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 06:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If Nashville Goes, the Fat Lady Has Sung (none / 1)

Well hell, i'll be damned. Nashville?

But there have also been some high-profile defections and some experts on country music are beginning to see some bleeding of Republican support even in that once rock-solid constituency.
"Country singers tend to be populists more than anything," says country music historian Don Cusic at Nashville's Belmont University.
.....
"They're dirty, they're liars, they're irresponsible, they're untrustworthy, they're power hungry, they're greedy, they're vindictive, and they're willing to destroy good and innocent people just to achieve their selfish goals," he said.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 06:36:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If Nashville Goes, the Fat Lady Has Sung (4.00 / 2)

Crazy Horse:

"They're dirty, they're liars, they're irresponsible, they're untrustworthy, they're power hungry, they're greedy, they're vindictive, and they're willing to destroy good and innocent people just to achieve their selfish goals," he said.

blues musicians are even worse....

:)

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 07:48:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

as you know, ghouls enter and exit the dead zone without friction. he's an ace up their sleeve.

even without 9-11 to crudely milk, rudi is angling for a back door into big power, and from the evil gleam in his eye, will not be taking no for an answer anytime this millennium...

my guess is he's up there with chertoff, (and a platoon or two of kourics) in charge of Plan B, which comes when the majority of americans get hip to how long, hard, and totally they have been gypped by their trusted, selected leaders and actually decide to do something about it.

rudy will magically appear with eliot abrams and ollie north and be the bad cops to the huckster's smarmy weird uncle routine.

rudy is the grinning, malevolent face of dick-taters-hip, lurking and conniving in the shadows, waiting for the next 9-11.

can i wake up now?

garlic, crucifix, stake....minimum

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 07:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

An ace up their sleeve? Go with me on this, melo: Obama would slaughter Mussolini. The guy's a clown. Fairly witty fir a Rep, but ultimately a joke.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 08:07:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't know if anyone else has seen this.

Buymyshitpile.com

With our economy in crisis, the US Government is scrambling to rescue our banks by purchasing their "distressed assets", i.e., assets that no one else wants to buy from them. We figured that instead of protesting this plan, we'd give regular Americans the same opportunity to sell their bad assets to the government. We need your help and you need the Government's help!
Use the form below to submit bad assets you'd like the government to take off your hands. And remember, when estimating the value of your 1997 limited edition Hanson single CD "MMMbop", it's not what you can sell these items for that matters, it's what you think they are worth. The fact that you think they are worth more than anyone will buy them for is what makes them bad assets.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 11:55:14 AM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 11)

I'm compelled to leave a few comments in the OT.

~ My parents have left Lyon and are in Dijon. They've just finished a jaunt through Italy (loved Venice most of all) and a bit of Switzerland, then to France. They love it. They are Republicans, Midwesterners, never been to Europe. It's been interesting to read their weekly e-mail digests. Maybe I'll turn them into a diary.

~ As loathe as I am to discuss American politics here, I see some European concern being voiced. Well, it may be representative of nothing, but I spent the weekend canvassing Republican precincts, and they are overwhelmingly "undecided," leaning HEAVILY toward Obama. Almost everyone I spoke to was independent or republican, but they were very happy to talk to me, and had a lot to talk about, and were very gracious people. It was such a positive experience. Dare I hope?

~Fall is here! Woo Hoo! The leaves are turning, the air is crisp, and I'm listening to Dave Brubeck and Vince Guaraldi. Life is good!

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 01:22:16 PM EST

Life is good (4.00 / 2)

Well that's nice!

I must agree - I was fascinated and uplifted by the colours of all the trees as I drove into town this morning.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:26:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fortunately, we only have four weeks to go, and if McCain keeps saying stupid shit like this (might just be the last straw in Florida), it'll be the most boring four weeks in election history, leaving nothing to be discussed.

(No such luck probably.)

Plus, the news in Yurp is more interesting right now. Certainly appears to be the case that the "decoupling" was imaginary in the economy.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Glad you can get energized and involved with all this doom in the air. Keep it up!

I'm moving up on the diary list and will get to yours, I swear. Maybe I'm just avoiding the crisis ones.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:41:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm officially depressed (4.00 / 8)

Activity is to be severely restricted until the end of the year (unless we get new management, of course, which can't happen soon enough).

I've seen more than a few in middle management ferociously pissed off at top management.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 01:29:57 PM EST

Re: I'm officially depressed (none / 0)

At least you'll meet some of my friends/colleagues/acquaintances on that conference in two weeks. :)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 06:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't take a nap around here (none / 0)

I had my nightmare yesterday, I crash for a nap 3-4 hrs ago, and I wake up to THE DOW DOWN OVER 600 POINTS, NOW WELL BELOW 9000.

KILL THE FUCKERS! KILL THE FUCKERS!

Didn't realize my dreams were so prophetic.

Now that they've looted the US Treasury, what's the next useless gimmick? Start another war? How about rounding up trouble-makers like me?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:20:23 PM EST

Re: I can't take a nap around here (none / 1)

Oh, I forgot.

LOL

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!!!!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't take a nap around here (none / 0)

Now down over 700 pts.

Dive, Dive.

CRASH! CRASH!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's the next useless gimmick? (4.00 / 5)

Start another war? How about rounding up trouble-makers like me?

A premonition, if there ever was one...

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
U.S. troops returning from duty in Iraq will be carrying out homeland patrols in America from October 1st in complete violation of Posse Comitatus for the purposes of helping with "civil unrest and crowd control" - which could include dealing with unruly Americans after a complete economic collapse.
The deployment of National Guard troops to aid law enforcement or for disaster relief purposes is legal under the authority of the governor of a state, but using active duty U.S. Army in law enforcement operations inside America absent the conditions described in the Insurrection Act is completely illegal.
This shocking admission was calmly reported on September 8th by the Army Times website, which reports that from the beginning of next month the 3rd Infantry Division's 1st Brigade Combat Team "Will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command, as an on-call federal response force for natural or manmade emergencies and disasters, including terrorist attacks."
The article notes that the deployment "marks the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities."

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne

by maracatu on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the next useless gimmick? (none / 1)

I haven't seen mere illegality prevent Bush/cheney from doing exactly what they please up to now. The benefit of stuffing the USSC with those who froth at the mouth a little too easily is that it's relatively easy to get this stuff authorised. Eg, I'm sure the US used to have a constitution once.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's the next useless gimmick? (none / 0)

Ah, now I'm starting to feel it. THE OLD POWER!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:19:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]