Friday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris
Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 09:27:50 AM EST

time to blog, it's the week-end soon!


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Greenpeace défend l'éolien offshore

L'ONG plaide pour une interconnexion des parcs installés en mer du Nord. Elle permettra, selon l'ONG, de stabiliser l'offre d'énergie verte et sa fiabilité.
Jeudi, étape belge au port d'Ostende pour le "Rainbow Warrior" dans le cadre d'un périple sous le signe de l'abandon du charbon. Le bateau mythique de Greenpeace est en route vers Poznan (Pologne), où se tiendra début décembre la conférence internationale sur le climat. L'escale belge ne vise pas à dénoncer des coups de griffes dans l'environnement, mais l'ONG environnementaliste entend promouvoir le développement notamment des éoliennes offshore, en particulier l'interconnexion des parcs éoliens installés en mer du Nord. "L'interconnexion des différents parcs éoliens en mer du Nord (français, hollandais, allemand, danois, etc.) permettra de stabiliser la production européenne d'énergie renouvelable et de garantir sa fiabilité. Il faut aussi penser à l'interconnexion des parcs avec la production d'électricité d'origine hydraulique de la Norvège, elle peut compenser les périodes de vent faible où les éoliennes tourneront en bas régime", dit Fawaz Al Bitar, responsable de la campagne climat/énergie de Greenpeace Belgique.

Il salue le projet de C-Power dont les six premières éoliennes offshore (sur une soixantaine à installer au total) sur le Thornton Bank au large des côtes ostendaises seront mises en service d'ici décembre.

Funny to see Greenpeace pay a friendly visit to a project owned by French State-owned, largely-nuclear EDF... and financed by me.


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 09:30:50 AM EST
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 09:51:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting, I know nothing about transmission of DC but I found some of the assertions in the article implausible. I'm not denying HVDC is better if there's a lot of interest in it, but some of the arguments as stated don't add up.

It'll be great if it comes off. tho' I think the blue windfarm blob in the middle of the UK and SW coast are extremely optimistic.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:16:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Which arguments?

In a long piece, its hard to work out what you are referring to. The potential for daytime peak CSP power from North Africa is substantial ... due to the latitude, its a better resource than the American Southwest where CSP is already being installed.

HVDC is what you would use for distances on the order of 1,000km, because of the higher line losses for HVAC, and because of the freedom from grid frequency.

On that map, that is taken from The e-Parliament initiative (pdf), you don't think that there is a coastal wind resource in NW or SE England, or you don't think that with a guaranteed round the clock market for the power harvested that the wind resource would be commercially viable?

Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 12:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Traditional low voltage AC lines lose large amounts of electricity in long distance transmission, because electricity is dissipated as heat due to the resistance of the conductors. High voltage lines require less surface area for transmission, which results in less heat being created, and therefore less transmission loss. [Howerver] High Voltage Alternating Current (HVAC) lines remain inefficient over long distances.

I'm sure it sounds convincing, but it's drivel. Not that it matters cos he doesn't explain why DC transmission over a thousand km is so much more efficient and I know nothing about DC transmission. I'm prepared to accept it because the commercial case seems compelling. But the description of how conductor loss works with AC is just wrong, in fact it's closer to the DC case than the AC one far as I remember (dredges up 30 year old memories of transmission line theory, blows dust off page, page is blank).

There is nothing wrong with the commercial case for building windfarms in the UK, except that nimbyism and the nuclear lobby who back them will never allow it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 12:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
HVDC always had lower line losses than HVAC ... the capital benefits of HVAC are in the lower capital costs of coupling to the AC local distribution grid. For the job of long-haul electricity transmission, the line losses loom larger, and the capital costs of connecting to the grid are much less critical, because you don't need to connect into every substation.

AFAIU, the main technological advances are in materials science in the conductor, which is decades back, and in the solid state power electronics for the voltage conversion, since the 1970's.

The big limit on HVDC is that its for point to point transmission ... AFAIU, multi-terminal is a headache with DC, requiring active management. So HVAC would continue to be used the distribution grid because one line for each local substation would be a dramatic increase in capital costs, as would a HVDC to AC inverter at each local substation.

But HVDC requires fewer conductors, has lower losses over long distances (it has higher transmission losses are at the origin and terminal, but lower over the line), and does not require synchronization between origin and terminal.

So for the application of long-haul point-to-point transmission, its the choice, for distances of 800km+ ... the Inga Dam to Shaba copper mine in the Democratic Republic of Congo is a line of 1700km.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 01:25:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That makes sense...thanks

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 01:37:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh, btw - the owner of that wind farm has promised me to winch me down one of these turbines from a helicopter. I promise I will blog it!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The End by Michael Lewis  

To this day, the willingness of a Wall Street investment bank to pay me hundreds of thousands of dollars to dispense investment advice to grownups remains a mystery to me. I was 24 years old, with no experience of, or particular interest in, guessing which stocks and bonds would rise and which would fall. The essential function of Wall Street is to allocate capital--to decide who should get it and who should not. Believe me when I tell you that I hadn't the first clue.

(...)

When I sat down to write my account of the experience in 1989--Liar's Poker, it was called--it was in the spirit of a young man who thought he was getting out while the getting was good. I was merely scribbling down a message on my way out and stuffing it into a bottle for those who would pass through these parts in the far distant future.

Unless some insider got all of this down on paper, I figured, no future human would believe that it happened.

I thought I was writing a period piece about the 1980s in America. Not for a moment did I suspect that the financial 1980s would last two full decades longer or that the difference in degree between Wall Street and ordinary life would swell into a difference in kind. I expected readers of the future to be outraged that back in 1986, the C.E.O. of Salomon Brothers, John Gutfreund, was paid $3.1 million; I expected them to gape in horror when I reported that one of our traders, Howie Rubin, had moved to Merrill Lynch, where he lost $250 million; I assumed they'd be shocked to learn that a Wall Street C.E.O. had only the vaguest idea of the risks his traders were running. What I didn't expect was that any future reader would look on my experience and say, "How quaint."

All his books (and columns) are worth reading.


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 09:33:04 AM EST
This is an excellent article.

I would like to second Jermome's comments about the writings of Michael Lewis: They are fantastic.

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying

by RogueTrooper on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 09:53:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Where are the rating agencies in all of this? And I'd always get the same reaction. It was a smirk." He called Standard & Poor's and asked what would happen to default rates if real estate prices fell. The man at S&P couldn't say; its model for home prices had no ability to accept a negative number. "They were just assuming home prices would keep going up," Eisman says.

Jaw drops. Head explodes, then bangs on table. Sigh escapes. Gah excapes. Jaw drops more.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 10:33:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, this article is excellent, but I doubt you will like this one:

Sarkozy Forces the French to Join the 1980s: Michael Lewis

To the extent that the French enjoy a natural advantage, it is in their inefficiency: They are the world's most efficient producers of structured indolence. They are the kept women of the global economy; their status depends, in part, on their practical uselessness.


"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 10:51:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not anti-French...


Of course, it's possible to change a society and to drag it into the global economic monoculture. Mrs. Thatcher showed how: Break up collectives and make people feel a little bit more alone in the world. Cut a few holes in the social safety net. Raise the status of money-making, and lower the status of every other activity. Stop giving knighthoods to artists and start giving them to department-store moguls. Stop listening to intellectuals and start listening to entrepreneurs and financiers.

Don't mind that artists and intellectuals hate you -- or even that, for a time, the entire society seems to hate you. Stick to the plan long enough and the people who are good at making money acquire huge sums and, along with them, power. In time, they become the culture's dominant voice. And they love you for it.

But the French are different.

For one, they enjoy feeling alone in the world. Their problem isn't an incapacity for selfishness, or for individual initiative. Anyone who has ever watched a middle-aged Parisian male muscle aside a pregnant lady with a baby and steal her taxi can see that the French have what it takes to succeed in the modern world. They just don't want to.

They want to take all those selfish impulses that might be directed into improving productivity and efficiency and wealth- accumulation and channel it into being ... French.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ZOMG!  Wealth accumulation might be a poor use of one's life?  Interesting...
by paving on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:32:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We should read this guy?

Well, at least he's right about Thatcher.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
horrifying. the explanation of the true nature of the CDO was..surreal. I read it three times cos I was sure I'd got it wrong.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 01:29:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Gretchen Morgenson discusses the unprecedented collapse of Merrill Lynch, America's most famous brokerage house.

This is the best explanation I've heard of Anglo disease. Listen to the Terri Gross 'Fresh Air' interview.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:39:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just recently two senior British politicians have been pontificating about the contribution of the blogs, the contrast is instructive;-

Guardian - Hazel Blears MP(Labour) - Nihilistic New Media

let me say that we are witnessing a dangerous corrosion in our political culture, on a scale much more profound than previous ages, and the role of the media must be examined in this context....

But mostly, political blogs are written by people with a disdain for the political system and politicians, who see their function as unearthing scandals, conspiracies and perceived hypocrisy.

Unless and until political blogging adds value to our political culture, by allowing new and disparate voices, ideas and legitimate protest and challenge, and until the mainstream media reports politics in a calmer, more responsible manner, it will continue to fuel a culture of cynicism and despair.

Telegraph - Michael Gove (Con) - Barack Obama's campaign makes UK politics look antiquated

There are powerful lessons from the Obama campaign for politicians here. The first, of course, is, the technology, stupid. The internet and blogosphere are powerful tools but they change the relationship between politicians and the electorate, forcing us to work harder. Used properly, the net can allow direct communication with voters. Several colleagues of mine have followed the lead of the Shadow Housing Minister Grant Shapps, who keeps his constituents informed about his actions every week through a formidable e-mail network.

But it is also true that citizen journalists can use the net to expose political hypocrisy faster, and challenge the spin which the mainstream media have accepted.[....]

effective organisations must be decentralised if they are to combine agreed purpose and fast, effective and adaptive action among large numbers of people.

That last paragraph is an interesting one for me as I've long speculated that the Blair-ite fetish for message control meant that Labour cou;dn't possibly harness the internet as the Democrats have done. Indeed some discussions I had with Migeru showed that the Lib Dems simply didn't get the idea of de-centralisation. It was all about top-down message control : Which is against the entire purpose of the lessons of dKos etc

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 10:15:35 AM EST
A new addition to unions' organising strategies and training has involved taking a look at the success of Obama's campaign in engaging communities and grassroots activists.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 10:23:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's frightening because the Tories - or at least one Tory - gets it, while NuLabour are  disdainful and irritated that mere voters should be voicing an opinion.

The 'culture of cynicism and despair' will disappear when we get pols and civil servants who are professional, insightful and forward thinking.

Shooting the messenger is hardly an answer here.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 10:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's worth noting that Gove is on record as stating that the Tories have an advantage in the British blogosphere and that he believes they can parlay that into greater political success.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 12:00:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's worth asking whether the blogos is in fact essentially an oppositional space. If Democrats and the Conservatives are both able to function effectively in building up a head of steam in a way that the government party cannot, is this energy, in fact, an expression of the frustrations of legislative powerlessness rather than any intrinsic quality of the Net ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 03:41:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Blogs serve as media when they break news but the only real power comes from their fund-raising abilities.  As usual the politicians kiss up to whomever has the cash.
by paving on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's multi-faceted...

  • I think we can all feel that it's easier to build up a head of steam in opposition compared to in government. Especially when the government is basically unpopular. It's easier to build a tribal feeling that way.

  • Of course, part of the "known unknowns" is that we're looking at the recent creation of the blogosphere. We'll see if the Obama years simply see a decline in the Dem blogs and a rise in Repub blog, or maybe just a rise in Repub blogs to some kind of new parity?

  • Another element is dissatisfaction not with legislative powerlessness but with existing media. The lefty blogosphere in the US was in part a conscious effort to use the new medium to combat the Repub echo chamber that was rooted in talk radio.

Likewise, for better or worse, UK Tories loathe the BBC much more strongly than centre-left types do. There's also the notion that the relative diversity of UK newspapers has slowed the growth of the blogosphere overall. One reason for the rise of Tory blogs is that the comment sections of The Telegraph and Times and Mail only appeared in usable forms relatively recently, while The Guardian was experimenting with talkboards for a lot longer and got something people felt able to use a lot earlier.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be nice if all the right wing blowhards would piss off from CiF cos several of the more interesting subjects tend to get very hostile comment threads.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:28:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. Definitely.

However, I don't see it happening... once trolls are bedded in, they are really hard to get rid of. Besides, the Guardian is purposefully choosing articles with a right wing stance to:

a) Generate more flame wars (more hits)
b) Please the American audience (many of whom are "libruls" but on things like foreign policy that puts them on the right-wing for the UK.

I guess my hope is that once Labour loses the next election, the "opposition effect" plus the poisoned state of CiF should help some decent lefty blogs to emerge.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:46:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lefty blogs already exists, like the truly dismal "Harry's Place". Sad old tankie politics, the dreary nostalgia for '68. I'd rather have Cameron in charge than listen to those fossilised leftist relics.

there really is no non-Marxist based liberal socialism in this country. nobody understands co-operatives, nobody remembers methodist leftism. Just crappy watered down leninism for the believahs.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please note, I said "decent lefty blogs" not just "lefty blogs."
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 06:12:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We still have the problem that decent Lefty blogs can't do much without an outlet.

dKos and the rest are industrial cash machines. I can imagine a lefty blog collecting cash to buy media time - rather like the atheist bus campaign - but that's a very indirect way of getting your point across.

Direct campaigning on specific issues is largely useless. You can have your camping holiday and your fifteen minutes of media attention, but the effect on national policy will be zero. Local issues may be more successful, but the anti-populist mindset is so entrenched in government that the faintest whiff of attempting to define policy will have the police opening a terrorist file on you.

What's missing in the UK is direct political accountability. It would certainly be possible to increase that, but none of the ways I can think of are likely to be popular with their targets, and some of them are likely to be very unpopular indeed - even though really all we're talking about here is basic investigative journalism.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 08:26:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Op-Ed Columnist - Bailout to Nowhere - NYTimes.com

Granting immortality to Detroit's Big Three does not enhance creative destruction. It retards it. It crosses a line, a bright line. It is not about saving a system; there will still be cars made and sold in America. It is about saving politically powerful corporations. A Detroit bailout would set a precedent for every single politically connected corporation in America. There already is a long line of lobbyists bidding for federal money. If Detroit gets money, then everyone would have a case. After all, are the employees of Circuit City or the newspaper industry inferior to the employees of Chrysler?

It is all a reminder that the biggest threat to a healthy economy is not the socialists of campaign lore. It's C.E.O.'s. It's politically powerful crony capitalists who use their influence to create a stagnant corporate welfare state.



Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 10:34:31 AM EST
A real damned if they do, damned if they don't decision. An awful lot of working class americans are going to be on destitute if it doesn't happen, but the precedents of actually saving them are disastrous.

I think the company should be destroyed and other manufacturing given encouragement ot set up. Windmill turbine manufactureres looking for cheap plant. All the infrastructure that needs to be done in the US.

Help the poor, sink the rich.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:21:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Help the poor, sink the rich.

Hasn't this been the mantra forever for the poor, and how much ever changes?  The rich justify their opulence any way they can, and the poor wait to starve or for the violence to finally break out.  I thought humans were supposed to be an intelligent species, what with nuclear bombs and figuring out photosynthesis and all.  But the whole rich vs poor thing goes on and on and on and ....

Record with a skip.  Somebody  jar the turntable already!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:44:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Question:  How will I know when "things" have really changed?  What will be "the sign"?  How simple.

Helen will start posting things like, "If America/Obama can get its act together, what is wrong with Europe?"

Once I see glimmers of optimism from Helen, I'll KNOW something is afoot.  Not meant as an insult.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:54:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So that's Helen as a reverse canary in the mine?

I could go with that....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:41:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

[Helen's Crystal Ball of Doom Technology]

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:52:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dammit - 'no longer available'

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or rather not outside the UK...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:59:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's only canary in a coalmine by the police. Nothing earth shattering.

did you double click ? that makes 'em work sometimes.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 03:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey c'mon, 'Don't stand so close to me' defined my zircon semi-smuggling trip to Thailand.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 03:39:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that sounds like a story for the pub if ever I heard a lede.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 03:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am, essentially, a pub raconteur.... ;-(

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspected as much


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But we have the votes....

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree.  The US should let the management and institutions of GM fall and then fund a new car making business with the money and the expertise that will be leftover.

The factories can keep running while the transition happens.

As for the question of pensions and health care benefits for the union workers:  We pay them of course.  If they prove to be an expensive burden we use it as leverage for national programs that would make them redundant, providing cover to cancel those old agreements.

We can even sell 49% of the company to Toyota if we want.

by paving on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:36:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Think Progress:

With Russian tanks only 30 miles from Tbilisi on August 12, Mr. Sarkozy told Mr. Putin that the world would not accept the overthrow of Georgia's Government. According to [Sarkozy's chief diplomatic adviser, Jean-David] Levitte, the Russian seemed unconcerned by international reaction. "I am going to hang Saakashvili by the balls," Mr. Putin declared.

Mr. Sarkozy thought he had misheard. "Hang him?" -- he asked. "Why not?" Mr. Putin replied. "The Americans hanged Saddam Hussein."

Mr. Sarkozy, using the familiar tu, tried to reason with him: "Yes but do you want to end up like [President] Bush?" Mr. Putin was briefly lost for words, then said: "Ah -- you have scored a point there."



Grabbing what you can, as John Ruskin said, isn't any less wicked when you grab it with the power of your brains than with the power of your fists.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:15:50 AM EST
And how much of that do we believe?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:20:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do you have trouble believing it?

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:36:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because Sarko and co are saying it: it strikes me as just the sort of pose they'd strike to make themselves seem more important and powerful than they are.

Has Putin confirmed it?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:37:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't believe Jerome is tolerating your French-bashing, Colman.  He must have given up the good fight.

On a serious note, doesn't matter.  Putin's style isn't to go around explicitly confirming and denying such things.  Truth or fiction, he's cultivated this image, and seems much more content to let people think what they want; that's how he knows how to deal with them, based on their response.  Saak obviously thinks it could be true.  And if Sarko's such a pathetic tool, do you think he'd make up this story about Putin?  Maybe it is all made up, but it serves both their purposes equally, and considering the Russian government's control freak issues, I doubt it was "leaked" or made up or whatever on accident.  Putin gets to look tough.  Sarko gets to look wise.  Saak munches on his tie.  It's superb political theater.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:51:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
there is a difference between mocking Sarkozy and French-bashing?

Keillor did not write "when was the last time Sarkozy said they wanted to be American", he wrote "when was the last time anyone in France said they wanted to be American" - you know, a generalization

If you don't let it go, neither will I.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 12:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you don't get a sense of humour, I'll have one for the both of us.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 12:41:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I must be tired (not to mention that my employer is making headlines for all the wrong reasons today and I still don't know if my job is deemed "strategic" or not going forward).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 12:43:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're not alone.  Yesterday we were told there will be strategic cuts.  Probably half of all employed living human beings are going through this.  

You still have to manage to be able to laugh at things.  Looking for the very worst in everyone seems to be an unhelpful response.  You're little Garrison Keillor episode was a fascinating exercise in scapegoating.  Everything is sucking now.  That's why we have to stay focused on the real bad guys and find a way to enjoy the little successes.  Or at least let's not try to make people feel like crap for enjoying theirs.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 01:00:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 

The Brits love France

The Brits love France. One way or another, whether on holiday, or as permanent ex-pats, there are a lot of us Brits here these days. France has long been a popular holiday destination for the British, with resorts such as St Tropez (Saint Tropez Property Guide) attracting the rich and famous as far back as the 1950s. The sheer natural diversity of the country means that it attracts many different types of sports people (Sport in France), from skiers to surfers, from walkers (Finding property in the best walking areas of France) to motorcyclists (Cycling and motorcycling in France)... and the sunny climate and excellent way of life attracts those who may have little interest in sport, but just want to enjoy the good things in life! Then there is the culture and history that oozes from every pore, and the treasure trove of art and culture that is Paris (Paris Property Guide), perhaps the most romantic city in the world. Who wouldn't want a piece of all this? It's hardly surprising that the Brits love France.

But... do the French love the Brits?

Yes... no... well, to be honest, it's a sort of love-hate thing really. For the most part the French are very accepting and even welcoming, amazingly so when you consider the sheer numbers in which we have come into and sometimes almost taken over their villages, bought up their chateaux, and, to a lesser degree, inflicted our language and culture upon theirs (there are British food sections available in many French supermarkets now, and even fish and chip shops in some parts of France!). It's all OK, as long as we don't beat them at rugby!

http://www.brits-in-france.net/index.html



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
everybody loves France. Being a financier, I have discounted that, naturally.

But there are objective reasons for that. The anti-French propaganda's goal is to hide, and worse, destroy, these objective facts.

(Disclaimer: I talk about France, not the French. You know the joke about God creating France, a perfect balance, great climate ,lush lands, diverse landscapes, beautiful views... so to compensate for that he created the French. I usually add that Russia is the opposite)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:30:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank Thor, you revealed your ironic streak ;-)

I was beginning to think my daughter had misplaced dreams....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So why does he say it's a love-hate thing? I have not once in well more than thirty years come across the kind of rejection, among the French, that the British have of the French. Get frustrated by large numbers buying houses, perhaps. But French hate British, no.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:39:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think he's really serious (he's a Brit :-)) about the "hate":


One thing I have learned is that I love this French life, and I am very happy that I made the decision to live here. There is so much that is wonderful about the country, about the way of life, and about the people. I also know, however, that I will always be English under the skin, even on those days when I want to feel French, and I have come to accept this and even to embrace it. I will still be cheering on England when they play France at rugby... although I will cheer for France if they are playing anyone else!

ibid



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
they say it's a love-hae relationship to make it symetrical, because they still cannot get over the gallic shrug

(see if I care)

(don't use me as a counter-argument: I'm a banker, thus irretrievably tainted)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:50:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well it's not like we hold a grudge, but they did shoot our king in the eye. ;-)

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 08:59:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FP Passport: Putin goes gangsta

You gotta love it when Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin goes uncensored while on official business, as he did during talks with Nicholas Sarkozy when the French president was at the Kremlin trying to forge a cease-fire after Russia invaded Georgia. In an attempt to illustrate just how hard he planned to lay the smack down on Georgia, Putin told Sarkozy, "I am going to hang Saakashvili by the balls," referring to Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili.

Wait, it gets better:

Mr Sarkozy responded: "Hang him?"

"Why not? The Americans hanged Saddam Hussein," said Mr Putin.

Mr Sarkozy replied, using the familiar "tu": "Yes but do you want to end up like [President] Bush?" Mr Putin was briefly lost for words, then replied: "Ah, you have scored a point there."

The inside info on the Godfather-esque sitdown is via Sarkozy's chief foreign policy advisor, Jean-David Levitte, who disclosed the details of the French president's August meeting with Putin to Le Nouvel Observateur today. According to Levitte, Sarkozy was aware of Putin's plan to oust Saakashvili and warned against it.

Sarkozy reassured Saakashvili in Paris today that he'd be looking out for Georgia during tomorrow's meeting with EU leaders and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in Nice.

On French radio, also today, the Georgian president reacted to Putin's threat by laughing nervously, responding that he'd heard something of the comments but not in such detail. "It's funny, all the same," he told the interviewer.




Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:36:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think an alpha male is clearly what Saakashvili needs to keep him in line.  Georgia will be lucky to be rid of him.  Putin understands that publicly humiliating him will be an effective way to get rid of him in time, provided the US stops propping the sad bastard up.  For all his machismo Putin is reasonably good at restraining his militarism.  I honestly believe he prefers the chess to the fighting.
by paving on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 02:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At one point today 86p would have bought you €1!!!!!!  

Money is a sign of Poverty - Culture Saying
by RogueTrooper on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 11:47:39 AM EST
... I said that cash for trash wouldn't be enough to address a solvency crisis if there was an effort to avoid over-paying for the trash, and that since we can't trust the Bush administration, we needed safeguards to make an equity infusion from the bail-out unattractive to firms that can muddle through on their own.

Well, I saw Senator Dodd on Countdown last night complaining about bail out funds being used to buy up healthy firms, executives getting bonuses and deferred compensation, and continuing to pay dividends.

NAILED IT

Recall that the three strings attached to Senior Preferred shares in my proposal were: M&A activity approved by the resolution trust, a cap on executive compensation payment of 10x median personal income, and no dividends on equity junior to the preferred shares.

Under a system of the strings turning off when the four most recent preferred dividends have been paid, they would automatically be in place for at least a year, and would kick back in if the financial institution ever was in a position of being unable to meet the preferred dividend.

Also posted at the Open Thread at Agent Orange ... there, the Open Thread Comment list is called "Recent Diaries".

Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 12:11:21 PM EST
If the $700B was the elite´s october surprise and 43rd´s last heist in the country, the US will be very lucky.  Just hope they are not preparing to unleash the xmas wish list surprise.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:17:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... xmas list, but they forgot about the law passed that allows Congress to review and, if they wish, overturn last minute regulation finalizations by an outgoing President. They are not going to get more money out of Congress this close to inauguration.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 06:06:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Roll a joint, pour a glass of wine, dim the lights, and enjoy.



I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 03:50:09 PM EST
Gimme Firesign Theater any day of the week

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, college early '70s.  Either a bunch of guys, all stoned, sitting around in the dark, listening to this and JUST HOWLING, or lying in bed with my lady, stoned again, and giggling like crazy.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. Are such things possible?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Nov 15th, 2008 at 05:08:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is as good an open thread as they go.

No?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:11:42 PM EST
Dude (dudette?).  Laptop going back to the mfgr. in about an hour.

Truffle project now moving forward because of your help.  If we want continue conversation, I recommend via email.  The starter's gun has officially sounded.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Circus canon shoots truffles boom boom boom.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:29:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's no rhyme nor reason for how OTs go, except that weekend ones are generally about as abandoned as mid-west mining towns.

this one is ..struggling

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh well I spent a day in a conference about small farmers and local and consumers and stuff and I thought this thread looked good.

Whatever.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Compared to a conference about small farmers and consumers and stuff, I'm sure this looks like a haven of erudition.

But, on a friday the whole blogos dies, even the huge arguments on Facebook have descended into imbecility (although some of us suspected this happened some time back) and I confess I a bit bored. So a dead OT is disappointing.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Be interesting to know how many people here are also on social networks like Facebook. ?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think, as of about last Friday, every living human is now on facebook.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I joined?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been avoiding it.

Not quite sure why, except that signing up feels like being pressganged by the Borg.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 08:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
me resist till last breath

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Nov 15th, 2008 at 03:20:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Me too.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Nov 15th, 2008 at 03:48:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I note that apparently half the current ET people on facebook joined this month...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Nov 16th, 2008 at 02:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anything worth reporting back from your conference?

I got lots of things ticked off my to do list today in a spate of great productiveness that I doubt I will repeat until after the winter break.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:04:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not a great deal. Mostly there was an institutional frame, because it was the future Parc Naturel Régional (Regional Nature Park) that was paying and organizing, and their interest is in "local traditional products" that they can promote - little jars of stuff tourists can buy to take home. But some of the discussions were quite good, all the same.

What I should do is set out what I see as the type of co-operative framework that can bring together local producers and consumers to show how it can carry out a distributive function that current trading structures don't provide for, and what useful communication it can do that isn't done elsewhere, too. We realized yesterday that our association, that groups a dozen or so farmers with eighty or so families (and counting), is a rare bird, in this part of France at least.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Nov 15th, 2008 at 03:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Try looking at The Riverford Model

It's an organic food box delivery company (tho it's also part co-op) that basically franchises out around the country so that ordering and marketing is centralised but distribution is localised.

The system you've got locally is the base model.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Nov 15th, 2008 at 05:43:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
also this article on alternet about a website for finding local food

The site is for people interested in food that is "good, clean and fair." As the Web site describes, it's "a free online directory of thousands of family farms, restaurants and other outlets for fresh, locally grown food. Originally a database of sustainable-raised meat and dairy producers, its listings have expanded to include farmers markets, CSA programs, partner organizations, water-conscious ratings and vegetarian eateries." Here are four important things you can do on the site:

Find good food: You can not only find great local food, but also have get a map to help you get there.

Customize your choices: You can save listings that you like in an online notebook and use it to create your own guide to share with friends.

Support the movement: You can help farmers, co-ops and small businesses by suggesting that they be added to the list.

Tune into the blogosphere: Find out what's going on in the sustainable food world at the Green Fork blog.

I like the fourth idea cos it makes the diea as much about reachout and inclusion as about consuming. It builds the total market.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Nov 15th, 2008 at 08:19:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are we OK, Afew? I never know when you are joshing or not. Me - I'm always joking.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:36:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm just tired and this looks like an interesting OT, that's all.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:43:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's also Monet's birthday today - a reminder of summer heat and the beauty of the ordinary:

762px-Claude_Monet_-s

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:22:25 PM EST
I'm mostly closed to art (not hostile, just not getting it), but this, like a few other geniuses (Van Gogh, Modigliani, Dire Straits) I can recognise immediately.

Monet rules the world! (well, at least impressionism does)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"I'm mostly closed to art"

Much recent art is part of a rather closed game - and what do you know - it connects with very familiar themes here:

Twenty years ago, a noted art writer lobbed a hand grenade at the smug world of contemporary art. In Has Modernism Failed?, Suzi Gablik castigated a culture in which total submission to "the big, powerful machine" of the art market replaced the artist's independent moral authority. Modern art broke the old rules, creating subversive work intended to shock the viewer into a new way of seeing. But consumer culture eventually co-opted shock value. In Gablik's view, successful artists of the 1970s and early '80s traded their autonomy for the money and security of "institutionalized individuality" offered by aggressive art dealers and museums increasingly reliant on corporate support.

http://www.amazon.fr/Has-Modernism-Failed-Suzi-Gablik/dp/0500284849



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is best defined by Calvin & Hobbes' line:


With modern art, you don't know who' pulling whose leg

(that's the polite version)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No need to give in to cynicism entirely though - there's a lot of inspiring stuff in science - see the space photos on NASA site. Then there is digital art and the combination of art and science, here's one specially for you - a French site - with some nice imagery using stuff like fractals:

http://www.lactamme.polytechnique.fr/Mosaic/descripteurs/Galerie_NonDeterministicFractalGeometryNatu ralPhenomenonSynthesis.FV.html

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 06:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dire Straits, definitely.

Monet for nothing...

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 05:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...and your ricks for free.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 08:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bravo sir.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 09:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly, in relation to the recent commemoration ceremonies:

"... his son Jean died in 1914. During World War I Monet painted a series of weeping willow trees as homage to the French fallen soldiers."

Claude_Monet,_Water-Lily_Pond_and_Weeping_Willow

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:40:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The sky from the balcony tonight:

ev-light-70739

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 04:48:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Over at DKos, they are having a cow about Hillary being Secretary of State.  I hope she gets it.  Not because I like her foreign policy ... policies.  I don't like Obama's either.  But because we have had someone who knows something about Russia in the job for years, and our relationship with Russia has sucked.  I'm hoping someone who knows nothing about Russia besides what Yeltsin's favorite potato chips were will change everything.  And I think, if we have to be enemies, Hillary and Putin would be a great match up.  

Anyway, everyone in Chicago knew she was meeting with Obama last night - it was on the local news.  This is like the only instance ever in which the tv people got the story 24 hours before the bloggers.  In the same news episode, and a fraction of a second was devoted to the economy.  Reporting on the economy now is like being a weatherman in Antarctica.  What's the point?  Weather sucks and you already know it.  No, the majority of the news was devoted to...

Obama's favorite pizza place.  Pizza is like sports teams here - everyone is a rabid fan of their favorite.  So they were reporting live from the pizza place. Back in the studio they played Super Obama World on the computer and waited for the pizza to be delivered.  Then they sat around and ate Obama's favorite pizza on camera.  

This was the evening news.  Not the silly morning news that always has gimmicks.

This is all truly weird.  I mean, I love it!  But I don't think it is normal.  How even bad journalists are supposed to act.  But they love Obama too.  No one will pretend not to.  It's madness.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Fri Nov 14th, 2008 at 06:41:50 PM EST


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