Monday Open Thread

by In Wales
Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:30:22 AM EST

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I'm still in post party recovery.  It was a packed full weekend. Back to the grindstone now!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:32:02 AM EST
I hope all went well after i left. Did anybody ever dance ? I felt very sorry for the disco.

thanks for inviting me, it was a fun weekend.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:33:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Loads of people were dancing!  It was empty for a while, with just one little boy kicking balloons about but there were plenty of us boogying later on in the evening.  That's always the way with discos.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:43:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds like Helen got out just in time!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:51:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
:O outrageous statement.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:57:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
for reasons I don't know how to explain I left early. Had last orders in Penarth.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 10:58:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently the reason it got so cold was because the pilot light went out on the heating and security didn't know how to restart it.  Everyone was sitting in their coats by the end, apart from those of us dancing to keep warm.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 11:01:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Belated Happy Birthday, In Wales.  And you had a party! Even if you had to do a lot of the work.  Been there.

Now it is off to Branson.  Oh, joy!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 11:13:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ah, and I thought it was just normal govt policy of being too cold in winter and too hot in summer. that was certainly the BBC policy.

And the reason the Brains Dark was vinegary was... ? :-)))

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 11:52:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THEY knew you were coming?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
NBER has officially called the recession.  Started in December 2007.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:37:37 PM EST
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

Dec. 1 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. economy entered a recession in December 2007, the panel that dates American business cycles said today.

The declaration was made by the National Bureau of Economic Research, a private, nonprofit group of economists based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. The last time the U.S. was in a recession was from March through November 2001, according to NBER.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds about right.

The Fed and others seem to think it's going to last a year and a half to two years, so we have about six months to a year to go.

Depending on how fast they can ramp up the stimulus package, a year sounds more right to me.  Six months is simply too short.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
situations with old methods.  

"Hey, I've got lung cancer."

Ans: "Take some cough medicine and shut up, whiner!"

Hope I'm wrong but don't think so.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:59:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
called it at the time. I guess that it depends which end of the stick you're on.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:44:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Business Cycle Dating Committee, National Bureau of Economic Research
The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research met by conference call on Friday, November 28. The committee maintains a chronology of the beginning and ending dates (months and quarters) of U.S. recessions. The committee determined that a peak in economic activity occurred in the U.S. economy in December 2007. The peak marks the end of the expansion that began in November 2001 and the beginning of a recession. The expansion lasted 73 months; the previous expansion of the 1990s lasted 120 months.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 12:44:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I want to go out with the cute blond with the great boobs!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My immediate reaction was, "A dating committee for economists?  Oh, that sounds exciting..."

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:03:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Man, I better keep my mouth shut around THIS crowd.

Can you imagine a school dance with ALL economists?

All the guys along one wall, all the gals along another.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:08:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, we're not all as boring as watching paint dry, and we don't all look like Paul Krugman.  It could work.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you asked a straight male Economist what his favorite porn site was, his answer would be ...?

(This should be fun.)

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:22:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you asked a straight male Economist what his favorite porn site was, his answer would be ...?

Calculated Risk?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:25:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know Tanta died yesterday, and all de Dkos migrants is in big, big trouble now. No one left to guide the commentators through the macro meta graphics.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:54:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How does it happen that the DOW is currently down 600 pts. and nobody seems to give a rat's be-hind?  Why do I think the blase attitude is NOT a good thing?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The fact that we're officially in recession will be the top story.  The stock market will be secondary, even with such a big fall.  A 600-point fall a year ago would've stunned everyone.  But it hasn't been way out there for the last couple months.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:02:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Clusterfuck Nation.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hadn't read that one yet, but I'll check it out.

I'd add Barry Ritholtz's Big Picture, Brad DeLong, Krugman (obviously), Atrios (when he does economics), and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not a "feel good" site. He'll have you growing your own food soon.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gonna be a little tough in a studio with no yard.

Oh, that reminds me: Mr D00M Pr0n, Roubini.  (Duh.)  Just looking at Roubini's reaction to anything is enough to make you want to grow your own food.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:22:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Blogs that make Roubini look cheery: Clusterfuck Nation, The Automatic Earth, and Jesse's Cafe Americain.
Clusterfuck Nation comes out once a week on Monday- I havent had a chance to read today's yet. Yesterday's Automatic Earth tackles how to survive in a long period of deflation. It don't sound to easy-but you're young:-)

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do both, lol.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or bring it up?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:12:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you've got a windowsill, you can be a farmer.

You could also become a guerilla gardener.

<That> might be right down you alley :-))

by Loefing on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:32:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, guerrilla gardener perhaps, but my windowsills are only about an inch and a half wide.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You could grow spaghetti.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Spaghetti squashes would probably be a bit large...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:44:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking bonsai spaghetti trees.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:46:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Keep the guerilla possibilities in mind! Individual, of course, but preferably organized.
by Loefing on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:48:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Naked Capitalism?!
by das monde on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 08:37:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
probably this

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:27:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I can hear all of those economists huffing and puffing now.  Good call!  LOL

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:53:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here: The Automatic Earth

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great car.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is pretty funny to me, because I do remember quite clearly hanging out by the wall  with future economists during college SAC-sponsored parties (youth "socialism" at work!) sipping grain-alcohol laced punch and caterwalling unseasonably tanned bimbos.

I understand how someone like Romer might not have been available for one or two FRB Friday night phone calls, explaining the EXTRAORDINARY circumstances that necessitated TDF, TAF, and PDCF "innovations." Hell, I can't keep 'em straight when I'm sober.



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama economic team | CNNMoney | 24 Nov 2008

Obama also announced that economist Christina Romer will be director his Council of Economic Advisors, which provides economic analysis and advice to the president.

Romer, whose expertise includes the Great Depression and the economic recovery that followed, is a professor of economics at the University of California, Berkeley. She is also co-director of the monetary economics program and a member of the business cycle dating committee at the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), the group that officially determines when U.S. recessions begin and end.

In Romer, Obama said, he has found an independent economist respected by both conservatives and liberals who has done "groundbreaking research on many of the topics our administration will confront, from tax policy to fighting recessions." [emphasis added]

BIO. Surely she labored with undue political pressure to moderate NBER recommendations and public advisory notices. Clinton tax era, Summers school of monetary institutions, and the Martin "Tradeable Gas Rights" Felstein era of business.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's an interesting diary on Cif about the misrepresentation of Chinese strategic nuclear goals.

however there's a good comment in response which I'd like to reproduce

To call this claim deceptive is an understatement

No. It is not deceptive at all. The people who wrote it know that it is false, and they know that most of the people who read it will know that it is false, and they know that most of the people who read it will know that they know that it is false.

The purpose of the claim is to provide cover for its authors to do what they want. It just provides plausible deniability in that any time someone objects to government policy, the government can point to this statement (which nobody believes) knowing that the critic cannot establish proof of what everyone knows, that it wasn't a serious claim in the first place. George W Bush is a master of this game. It's why he never admits to being wrong.

The philosopher Harry Frankfurt wrote a book about statements like this. It's called On Bull**.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 01:03:49 PM EST
Didn't George Orwell write a book about that too?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:27:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think Bushco have been issuing updates.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn! My first impression was Cif, Unilever PROFIT CENTER.

I'm sure, if more Chinese buy Cif to scrub clean their wood rice bowls in that nasty Yangzte River, current balances will be restored.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by das monde on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 08:42:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ooooh ick

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 at 05:39:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just passing this along —

My favorite blog from Iceland, The Iceland Weather Report, is looking for people and businesses to Become a sponsor.

So if anyone out there would like to become a sponsor of The Iceland Weather Report for the nominal fee of USD 50 per quarter [that's three months] for a private blog, or USD 100 per quarter for a small business,* in return for a 100×75 px image in my sidebar linking back to your site, please contact me and let me know.

Alda has been writing about Iceland from the inside and among other topics, she is covering how the banking collapse is impacting Icelanders and how they think and feel about it. She's also written for The Guardian Comment is Free section.

by Magnifico on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 01:53:15 PM EST
Happy Monday!

How is everyone?  It's snowing like mad here - very beautiful, but makes getting about a pain.  As if just trying to get about with a messed up foot were not pain enough.  No, where's the challenge in that?  Let's make it interesting! - cover all surfaces with a slippery substance!

But I do like the snow...

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 01:54:17 PM EST
How's the foot ? Or more precisely, how long will the foot be out of action ?

And suppplemetary (name that sitcom) : If you're in plaster, did they leave your toes sticking out with no means of protection from the elements ? Which must be a nuisance.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:23:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's ok.  Hurts to walk around.  I'm not in a cast - just all taped up, because the part that is actually broken is my toe, and they can't really do much in the way of casts for that.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:28:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OTOH, I have plenty of justification now for having purchased a pair of those awful UGG type boots. :)

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
UGG: I don't get the urge. That I don't get the urge bugs me. I feel like I ought to even if I decline to spend. UGG styling isn't even complimentary -- then again, I'm a Ferragamo specialist.

Sure, lambskin makes some sense for some persons during podiatric healing. But wtf outside shuffling 'round the a chilly house in syn-fab slippers? Hell, I'd rather drive barefoot than put on one of those "boots".

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They are certainly a fashion abomination.  I mean, you are talking to the girl who wrote a political manifesto celibrating high heels.  

But 1) If you have to walk around in shoes while your foot is recovering, they are ideal: snug enough support you but loose enough that there is no pressure on your foot and padded enough to protect you. And 2) I don't know where you live, but it gets evil cold here, and these babies are like duvets for your feet.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 04:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, you are talking to the girl who wrote a political manifesto celibrating high heels.  

I sensed this; call me nuts; poetry requires nuance. For me, the pivot is toe cleavage. I like everyone else in my family is born with the THING for slender footprint. Who can see cleavage in UGG? Whatever.

Sure, I understand UGG is infinitely preferrable to orthopedic sandal during any Chicago winter. Duh. (I grew up in Michigan.) Would you wear UGG in June? Does UGG even market lambskin sandals?! I must have missed that tween opportunity -- although I have seen tween UGG wear in June in fuckin MD. I guess, we'll have to reserve unilateral UGG judgement.

We hang onto LL Bean all-weathers with Gortex booties, tested, myself.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would you wear UGG in June?

No.  But at home I wear my LL Bean Wicked Good slippers, which are basically like UGGs, all year round.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No. You. Don't.

I'm really bad at shoes: I'm more or less neutral among most of them, can't off any useful feedback during shopping trips  and don't really see the point of high heels, but even I can tell that, unless you're a reindeer herder in full traditional dress or something, those things are inexcusable.

Any they wear them in summer here. I can't imagine what that smells like at the end of the day.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I mean, stay at home or something.

Yeesh.

</insane rant>

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:37:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Uhm, I know you are having a difficult time and all, but I think you are being unnecessarily hostile.  "Stay at home"?  Are you serious?  Over a pair of shoes you think I am too horrid to leave the house?  You realize that is, uhm, mean, right?

Step away from the computer, Colman.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, guess my humour is out of tune then.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I really hate uggs (or whatever they're called) though.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:50:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not summer here.  It's 5 inches of snow and 25F here.  My feet are warm and not in pain, and frankly, that's much more important to me than your opinion.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Get a walking stick. It will help. And remember; left foot, stick in right hand or you'll do your back (& vice versa).

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:49:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think I will just go the Power of Positive Thinking route, and visualize myself not falling down. :)

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just find it eases the pressure so's it doesn't hurt so much.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
An advent calendar just for you-(Dr)Who

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:28:15 PM EST
That's exciting. Although I am at college and shouldn't be looking at Doctor Who....

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 02:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who here has a clear, simple How-to to make a You-Tube, staring myself of course.  I have a laptop with built-in camera and microphone.

Someone educate me, please.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:20:45 PM EST
It's on youtube. Try google - "how to make a youtube video"

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:39:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you.  Will do.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:35:37 PM EST
Nice.  

Of course, DDT will have to be mysteriously killed now ...

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 03:43:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
1905 lolcat:

Good to see the humour has improved since then - at least a little.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:22:17 PM EST
Not enough focus yet to make a Bremen diary, there's so much to do.  But here's what's on the box right now, to help make sense of the current insensible...

Nina Simone, Sinnerman

Watch the media follow the Bush spin, as this carefully planned and coordinated campaign begins.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 05:51:51 PM EST
New living space

Have i crashed anything?

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 06:36:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, the glass roof!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 07:54:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another song about power!

By Screaming Jay Hawkins

and Nina

A glass roof, a glass of whisky, seeing through a glass darkly....and because it reminds me of way back when...

End on a positive--some old hip to go with the new hip!

And an extra track for ceebs--I didn't know what to choose, I've been down some old memories, and finally I thought, come on, The Stranglers--but how to choose?  Then I thought of Alex, out there, but no!  Ach, so hard to choose--ah!  One you might not have heard for a while!  Hope all goes well in ceebsland!

Well, and I wanted a Patti Smith track, living on the thin edge, falling off, getting back up or just lying there thinking....:



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Dec 1st, 2008 at 07:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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