After Democracy

by marco
Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 08:11:14 AM EST

This diary is basically putting two reviews of the same book, Emmanuel Todd's Après la démocratie, side by side, to see how they are similar and how they are different.

I have not read the book, but based on what is described in the two reviews -- a first one in Le Monde followed by one in the Financial Times -- it is a rather surprisingly pessimistic -- and surprisingly (to my mind) reactionary -- assessment of the state of politics and society in Europe.  In particular, Todd apparently emphasizes the socially stabilizing value of religion and calls for protectionist trade barriers.

The superscripted numbers in parentheses in each column indicate phrases that I thought paralleled each other in the two reviews.  Not that you guys had to have these pointed out.  What was perhaps more interesting than the common points was what each review left out from what the other covered.


"After Democracy," Emmanuel Todd: French Society in Crisis | Le Monde - Review - Bertrand Le Gendre (24.11.08 | 15h510)Europe urged to protect and survive | Financial Times - John Thornhill (December 1 2008 02:00)
Democracy is on the road to ruin. Religious values (Christianity, Communism ...) have collapsed. Free-marketism and its corollary, globalization, are slowly destroying society. And to make matters worse, the French have elected as their leader a president who is "incapable of exercising power"(1). A man who, once in power, immediately aligned himself with the United States, like "a rat rushing to scurry onto a sinking ship".The financial crisis is convulsing politics in unexpected(2) ways. The triumph of an inexperienced black liberal senator in the US presidential election(3) may yet be counted as the first surprise of many. What else could be in store?
That, in a few words, is the the thesis of this fulgent, fulsome, and flat-footed book, as Emmanuel Todd was caught flat-footed(2) by the financial crisis that would "re-presidentialize" Nicolas Sarkozy. Nor did he predict that the "Bushist America" he curses would elect Barack Obama(3).Emmanuel Todd, the French historian, made a name for himself by predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union. He has been peering into his crystal ball again. In his latest book, Après la démocratie (After Democracy), he conjures up the alarming possibility of a post-democratic Europe reverting to ethnic scapegoating and dictatorship(16).
At once independent-minded and upset (emporté)(4), Emmanuel Todd is not any more lenient towards the Socialists(5). He accuses the Socialist Party (PS) of having betrayed the values of the left by converting to capitalism. In Ségolène Royal's popularity he discerns signs of "rot [décomposition]" in the body politic. And he blames "cynical careerism" for the promotion of the Socialist Pascal Lamy to the head of the World Trade Organization as well as that of Dominique Strauss-Kahn as director of the International Monetary Fund.The author's starting point is incredulity that a politician as "vacuous, violent and vulgar" as Nicolas Sarkozy could ever have been elected president(1). As interior minister, Mr Sarkozy proved he was ill-suited to high office by inflaming social tensions during the riots in France's troubled suburbs, Mr Todd argues. Mr Sarkozy's first months in power have only confirmed this judgment. As incompetent in economics as in diplomacy, the hyperactive Mr Sarkozy is going nowhere fast, the author contends, rather like a cyclist pedalling away on an exercise bike.
This is a point to which he comes back often: the Socialist elites are of the same ilk as Nicolas Sarkozy. Historian, demographer and sociologist, he sees in their patent complicity(6) the explanation for the ideological void that France has sunk into. With "a rise in the power of antidemocratic forces(7)" as the consequence.Yet Mr Sarkozy's election is a symptom of the sickness of French democracy rather than its cause. Once, French politics was neatly defined by its ideological divisions(9): the Communists represented the secular, internationalist, working class; the Gaullists represented nationalist, conservative, Catholic values. But the collapse of religion and ideology(8) has destroyed that framework, leaving behind a politically atomised society wide open to manipulation by the likes of Mr Sarkozy or Silvio Berlusconi(7) in Italy. Tough economic times will only tempt such populist politicians to stoke public fears of immigration and to adopt ever more authoritarian ways.
The exploration of this ideological void is at the heart of his exposition. The crumbling away of the great religious faiths(8), explains Emmanuel Todd, aggravates the decline of politics. But this decline is also due to a rise in the level of knowledge -- a disturbing statement for those who believe that education automatically improves democracy. That was true yesterday. But times change. The increasing number of graduates with higher levels of education, notes Emmanuel Todd, has reshuffled the deck by creating a category of individuals impervious "to the strong affiliations that used to structure the nation, the public, the social domain"(9).However, the author is equally scathing about France's opposition Socialists(5), a party of cosseted bureaucrats who have betrayed the workers they once represented. French civil servants do not have to worry about the corrosive effects of globalisation(11) because their own jobs cannot be sent offshore.
Add to this gloomy picture the temptation to fill the religious and ideological void(8) he denounces with calls to reclaim identity: the castigation of Islam(10), the creation of a ministry of national identity, the "ethnicization" of a national myth... One begins to understand why this book is titled After Democracy.Mr Todd paints a picture of a collusive political-media elite(6) that benefits from globalisation while being disconnected from the people who suffer from it. As arrogant as the aristocracy on the eve of the 1789 revolution, this elite blithely ignores the views of voters whenever it suits them. French voters rejected the European Union's constitutional treaty, but a modified version was later adopted by parliament. Britain's voters protested massively against the war in Iraq, but the government sent in the troops regardless.
Which democracy is supposedly at risk of disappearing. Emmanuel Todd does not rule out a "coup d'Etat(16)", the temptation to which he perceives in Henri Guaino, Nicolas Sarkozy's special counsel. Similarly, he suspects the Socialists of wanting to "withdraw the right to vote from the people, or to at least to seriously limit its practice(16)".Ordinary workers blame cheap-wage China for killing jobs and compressing wages(13). Instead, France's leaders scapegoat Muslim immigrants and target militant Islam(10), justifying an unpopular intervention in Afghanistan. Employees want Europe to protect their jobs but, in spite of his increasingly protectionist rhetoric, Mr Sarkozy - and the opposition Socialist party - still adhere to the free-trade dictates of the EU and the World Trade Organisation.
At times one wonders if he is joking, but he is not the type. Emmanuel Todd is convinced that the free market and globalization, considered by France's elite to be a foregone conclusion, have disintegrated(11) French democracy.In Mr Todd's reductionist view, globalisation is simply the exploitation of cheap workers in China(13) and India by US, European and Japanese companies. He is therefore an unabashed champion of European protectionism. Erecting trade barriers(12) would increase European wages(14) which, in turn, would increase demand and boost trade, he argues. The "social asphyxia" that is sucking the breath out of democracy would disappear.
The solution flows from the source: abandon globalization and institute a salvational protectionism at the borders of Europe(12). Thanks to such a reasoned protectionism, French wages, pulled down to the bottom by Chinese workers(13), will rise again(14). National cohesion will come out of it restrengthened. And democracy -- at last! -- will find its colors again.The British, whose very identity is wrapped up in free trade, will never buy protectionism, Mr Todd suggests, but Germany and the rest of the EU could be persuaded.
Sprinkled with cutting judgements, this exposition often vacillates between essay and satirical tract, in the process losing its force(15). Above all, Emmanuel Todd is too presumptuous. If the solution that he argues for were the panacea, we would follow it without hesitation. Alas...At times, Mr Todd's anger(4) outstrips his analysis(15). Too many questions are left hanging. Does globalisation not benefit western consumers? Why would Germany, one of the great exporting nations, turn its back on free trade? Has Mr Sarkozy not performed well in the crisis? But there is no doubt that the intellectual assault on free trade is intensifying. Mr Todd's book is an impassioned(4) salvo in that war of ideas.
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The translation of the Le Monde review is mine, so it may very well contain some significant errors.  For example, I had never encountered the noun politique in the masculine except for the nominalized form of the adjective, as in the politically expedient.  But here there two phrases -- le signe de la "décomposition" du politique, and accentue le recul du politique -- where I had no choice but to guess that it simply meant "politics".  But then, I thought la politique was the word for "politics".

Could the meaning of le politique be closer to something like "the body politic", whereas la politique refers to "politics as practiced by politicians"?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 08:16:27 AM EST
"la politique" is rather public affairs, party politics, the practice of politics by politicians (as you say), while "le politique" is the field of what is proper to politics, that which is political. The former is extremely common, the latter reserved for academic and didactic use.

 

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 10:30:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could it be short for "le domaine politique"?
by Lily on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 10:58:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And, of course, in France, there's a philosophical discussion :-)

Dans son ouvrage L'Avénement de la démocratie, Marcel Gauchet développe une distinction très structurée entre le politique et la politique. De même, Il insiste sur la distance qui sépare le citoyen soucieux de l'intérêt général de l'individu libéral soucieux de ses propres intérêts. Dans cette intervention, il revient sur ces notions souvent mal comprises.

http://gauchet.blogspot.com/2007/11/le-politique-versus-la-politique.html



Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 05:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
good diary, marco.

the going away to university has many benefits when it comes to broadening of the young person's mind, and helpful in impressing cultural relativity at a formative age, but there is a downside too...

preindustrial age, these young men and women were shaping their skills needed in the communities, learned from their elders.

now, once a young person has gone somewhere too far to stay intimately connected to his blood roots and community of origin, during those years of early adulthood, there is a rupture between the needs of the actual (not virtual) natal community, and the new needs that university trains to satisfy.

when it's successful, a young, intelligent man might learn something complicated like law or medecine, and learn to supply needs, useful perhaps in his natal community, but also fungible, less locked into the locus.

when it's less successful, you get overeducated-for-the-situation doctors, selling matches on the street, as i heard happened in the transition between the old soviet russia and the shiny new one.

or scads of very numerate people who could work for a hedge fund, but maybe could not be very useful in practical things like fixing broken axes or axles.

while away, much of the social tissue that holds communities close erodes, and the students return to a world they no longer feel at home in, no matter how good their marks were.

it's fine to change directions. i have a buddy who trained in jurisprudence, and now runs a restaurant. he studied the former mainly to please his parents anyway!

and i know a slew of great musicians who could probably pull down some serious cheese if they were ambitious enough to go seek their fortunes in some bigger burg, but they like the provincial rhythms, the closeness to their families, and they know what they'd lose if they didn't stay home and nurturing the bonds with their communities, keeping that social tissue alive.

no easy answers here...

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 02:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great comment, melo - as usual.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 02:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
melo: now, once a young person has gone somewhere too far to stay intimately connected to his blood roots and community of origin, during those years of early adulthood, there is a rupture between the needs of the actual (not virtual) natal community, and the new needs that university trains to satisfy. <...>

while away, much of the social tissue that holds communities close erodes, and the students return to a world they no longer feel at home in, no matter how good their marks were.

were you in part writing that in response to the following passage?

... this decline is also due to a rise in the level of knowledge -- a disturbing statement for those who believe that education automatically improves democracy. That was true yesterday. But times change. The increasing number of graduates with higher levels of education, notes Emmanuel Todd, has reshuffled the deck by creating a category of individuals impervious "to the strong affiliations that used to structure the nation, the public, the social domain".

personally, i feel very ambivalent about this point.  on the one hand, i agree that there is an increasing and troubling "atomisation" of our society, due in part no doubt to the decline of these "affiliations".  but unlike Todd, i am all for an "organic" falling away of older affiliations so that "new improved" ones can take their place.  in this intermediary stage there may be this sense of atomisation, but -- I believe and hope -- the atoms can be reconstituted into an improved (can I say, "higher order") system of social organization. this has been happening for hundreds of years already.  the European Union, assuming it succeeds, will be the most recent progression.  and part of that process is outgrowing older, more tribal and provincial affiliations like religion, ethnicity, country, etc. and gradually taking on broader, more global affiliations as primary.  And getting back to education:  I think it's in the universities that we get in touch with these broader affiliations, not only intellectually through our courses and studies, but experientially by meeting people from all over the world, and not just one's home community.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 01:45:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I really don't think that new affiliations spring up ex nihilio and they don't emerge from nothingness to ubiquity in the space of a generation. Barring catastrophe that is. And I'm not sure that global affiliations can exist if not based on a hierarchy of loyalties or "belongings" that range from the universal to the local, not only geographically (but that too) but in terms of various identities (i.e belonging to a scholarly community, a linguistic one etc).

In fact if you leave out some sort of regional belonging, there is precious little room IMHO for democracy, no room for self-determination and certainly no room for community in any meaningful shape. You start from claiming your democratic stake in the affairs of you neighborhood and move to grander things from there, I think.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 01:54:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
talos: if you leave out some sort of regional belonging, there is precious little room IMHO for democracy, no room for self-determination and certainly no room for community in any meaningful shape.

that's a real good and tough point: does society/community depend first of all on geography?

i am not sure.

what i was trying to convey -- and the issues are definitely intertwined -- was very well expressed by Todd in an interview afew translated:

Emmanuel Todd : The protectionist revolution, current affairs debates : Le Point - Elisabeth Lévy (translated by afew)

... implemented at a collective supranational level, free from any ethnic or State founding myth, would demonstrate that have moved up to a higher state of human consciousness and of historical development.

i don't know if i buy (or even understand) the concept of "cooperative protectionism" he was describing in this passage, but replace that with "society/community in general", and it describes very well what i was trying to get at.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 10:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not sure either, but I reckon that it does begin with geography. I assume that every hierarchy of belonging and of social organization needs a real lived material base.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 11:39:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
words--or is it your translation?  

As for the thesis:  Democracy depends upon a shared vision of a society or a nation as a society or nation--when that shared vision breaks down because of propaganda by the plutocrats or equally and oppositely because of abuse of government by them, then what?  Predicting the next thing is surely chancy, but "democracy" as we have known it is indeed near the end of the road.  

Somehow, I doubt the socialists understand what is happening, but the corporatists surely do:  They are banking on fascism:  It worked for them before.  

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 06:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Somehow, I doubt the socialists understand what is happening"

Why ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 06:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gaianne: As for the thesis:  Democracy depends upon a shared vision of a society or a nation as a society or nation--when that shared vision breaks down because of propaganda by the plutocrats or equally and oppositely because of abuse of government by them, then what?

I would say that even before a shared vision, there has to be a shared universal sense of belonging, stakeholdership (for want of a better word), and responsibility.  These are the sine qua nons of any real democracy, and each of them is getting put through the wringer these days (actually, is there ever a time when they are not?).

I would have considered it quasi-fascist when I was younger, but more and more I like the idea of some kind of mandatory national service.  In order to preserve one's status as an adult citizen, everyone must serve for a period of time in either military or civil service.  This idea has been discussed -- and debated -- at least once before, and probably many times.

(As an aside, I hate the idea of "nationality"/"nationhood", because it contains too much tribalistic residue and lends itself to abuse and exploitation; e.g.

Add to this gloomy picture the temptation to fill the religious and ideological void he denounces with calls to reclaim identity: the castigation of Islam, the creation of a ministry of national identity, the "ethnicization" of a national myth... One begins to understand why this book is titled After Democracy.

But it's the least bad of existing forms of social organization we've come up with so far, so given these conditions, I think a national service is a good thing to maintain the health of these nation-state thingamajiggies.)

Gaianne: Predicting the next thing is surely chancy, but "democracy" as we have known it is indeed near the end of the road.

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  I believe democracy can be restored back to health.  In fact, I think it's still pretty healthy, despite its problems.  It can be improved a lot, of course, but the first step to that end is believing that it can be restored/improved/saved.  If you don't believe that, then sure, this sucker is going down.

Gaianne: words--or is it your translation?

It's Bertrand Le Gendre's writing.  Just pour into it into Google Translate, correct some obvious parsing errors, go to WordReference.com for alternate translations of a few specific words and phrases, and presto, you got your translation.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 01:16:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
in a Daily Motion video which unfortunately I cannot access because Daily Motion seems to have been blocked in China.  (I've tried through web proxies, too, but no dice.  Will try another proxy work-around later.)

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 08:37:29 AM EST
My French is rusty, but the interview is outstanding. Big, split into 9 videos. Worth it.

"Nullius in Verba"
by tiagoantao (put_my_login_here <> gmail com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 10:38:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent diary, marco.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 09:54:52 AM EST
Thanks, but it is nothing more than a translation.  It was more of an experiment than anything.  I was hoping to find an interesting way to present alternative interpretations of the same topic/incident/phenomenon, etc. in one diary.  But as I did this, it started to feel more like a frosh exercise in literary analysis.  I think the really interesting part will be getting responses to particular points made in these reviews -- or even better, in the book itself, or in one of Todd's interviews.

Still I suspect there is some as yet undiscovered potential in cross-language, or simply cross-author, comparative diaries, as I DoDo seems to say here.  Requires a lot of work, though!

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 12:52:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have (h/t to Jérôme) an interview with Todd about this. I'm tied up now, so I'll get back later.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 10:32:12 AM EST
Here goes. It's from an interview in Le Point, with some pretty "pointy" questioning... I found there was a lot of interesting stuff, so...

Emmanuel Todd : La révolution protectionniste, actualité Débats : Le Point Elisabeth LévyEmmanuel Todd : The protectionist revolution, current affairs debates : Le Point - Elisabeth Lévy
(...) Et je sais aussi que lorsqu'une bande mêlée, de toutes les couleurs, caillasse la police, c'est que l'assimilation fonctionne, fût-ce sur un mode négatif. Les valeurs égalitaires sont toujours ancrées dans la société.(...) And I also know that when a mixed gang, of all colours, throws rocks at the police, it means assimilation works, if only in negative mode. Egalitarian values are still anchored in society.
Donc, « La Marseillaise » sifflée est l'expression d'aspirations égalitaires contrariées, tandis que l'inquiétude que cela suscite traduit le raidissement islamophobe de l'élite? So, whistling down the Marseillaise [at football matches] is the expression of frustrated egalitarian aspirations, while the concern that this creates reflects the Islamophobic stiffening of the elite?
La fascination de l'islam, l'obsession de l'islam, la fixation sur l'islam n'ont rien à voir avec la réalité de l'islam ni même avec la crise qu'il traverse en dehors de nos frontières. Elles s'expliquent par le fait que la France, pays de tradition chrétienne, vient de connaître l'ultime disparition du catholicisme. D'où une angoisse liée au vide religieux, que certains intellectuels laïques projettent sur l'islam, comme s'ils avaient besoin de ce repoussoir pour préserver leur sentiment de sécurité athée. J'aimerais que les intellectuels et les politiques français s'intéressent un peu moins à l'islam et au football, un peu plus au libre-échange et aux délocalisations qui détruisent la vie des gamins de banlieue.Fascination with Islam, the obsession with Islam, the fixation on Islam, have nothing to do with the reality of Islam nor even with the crisis it is undergoing beyond our borders. They can be explained by the fact that France, a country of Christian tradition, has just lived through the final disappearance of Catholicism. Whence anxiety linked to a religious vacuum, which some secular intellectuals project on to Islam, as if they needed this foil so as to hold on to their atheistic feeling of security. I wish French intellectuals and politicians would show a bit less interest in Islam and football, and a bit more in free trade and the offshoring that destroys the lives of kids from the banlieues.
(...)(...)
Vous opposez des séries statistiques à l'expérience concrète. Prenons votre diagnostic sur l'éducation...You place statistical series in opposition to concrete experience. Take your diagnosis on education ...
Dans mon modèle éducatif-culturel, l'émergence de la démocratie est associée à l'alphabétisation de masse et l'émergence de tendances oligarchiques à la restratification de la société par autonomisation des diplômés de l'enseignement supérieur. Et non seulement j'observe la stagnation éducative dans laquelle est entrée la France depuis 1995, mais je reconnais que nous ne savons pas s'il s'agit d'une pause ou d'un plancher de très longue durée.In my educative-cultural model, the emergence of democracy is associated with mass literacy and the emergence of oligarchic trends towards restratification of society by the empowering of higher education graduates. And not only do I observe the educational stagnation France moved into from 1995, but I recognize that we don't know if it's a pause or a long-term floor.
Vous vous imposez pourtant un devoir d'optimisme...Yet you make it your duty to be optimistic...
Je crois beaucoup plus aux données qu'aux impressions. Trente ans de fréquentation des courbes me prouvent le caractère massif, universel, de la marche en avant de l'alphabétisation, celle-ci entraînant la révolution démographique, puis, ultimement, le développement économique. En 2030, la planète entière sera alphabétisée. Bref, je vis avec le progrès. C'est ce qui me rend optimiste.I believe in data much more than in impressions. Thirty years of being around curves have proved to me the massive, universal character of the forward march of literacy, this in its turn setting off the demographic revolution, then, ultimately, economic development. In 2030, the whole planet will be literate. In short, I live with progress. That makes me optimistic.
D'où la volée de bois vert que vous passez aux « pessimistes culturels ». Or il y a quelques raisons d'être pessimiste, non ?From that comes the drubbing you inflict on the "cultural pessimists". But there are some reasons for being pessimistic, right?
Ce qui me frappe, c'est la façon dont un simple arrêt du progrès est interprété comme un déclin. Comparée à l'extraordinaire progression observée depuis la guerre, la stagnation éducative est un choc, pour les profs et pour tout le monde. Mais le pessimisme culturel est une réaction hystérisée à ce choc. Je n'observe nullement l'ignorance universelle et le prétendu illettrisme que Le Point, comme d'autres, dénonce régulièrement. Il est parfaitement vrai que, après les gosses des milieux populaires, ceux des classes moyennes sont touchés par le chômage et les bas salaires, mais le monde abruti que nous décrivent des dépressifs culturels qui idéalisent le passé, je ne le vois pas !What strikes me is the way a simple halt in progress is interpreted as decline. Compared to the extraordinary advance observed since the war, educative stagnation is a shock, for teachers and for everybody. But cultural pessimism is a hysterical reaction to this shock. I can't at all see the universal ignorance and supposed illiteracy that Le Point, like others, regularly declaim against. It is perfectly true that, after kids from lower-class backgrounds, middle-class kids are now hit by unemployment and low wages, but I don't see the moronic world described by the cultural depression sufferers who idealise the past!
L'appauvrissement du langage, la chute de l'autorité, le délitement de la transmission n'existent pas?The impoverishment of language, the decline of authority, the collapse of [cultural] transmission do not exist?
Votre obsession du déclin culturel vous fait oublier l'emballement des inégalités, le fait nouveau que les diplômés ne profitent plus du changement économique, ainsi que le retour du capital dans la vie politique et l'émergence d'une oligarchie qui ne représente pas 1 % de la société.Your obsession with cultural decline blinds you to the rapid rise of different forms of inequality, the new fact that graduates no longer get anything out of economic change, along with the return of capital to political life and the emergence of an oligarchy that does not represent even 1% of society.
(...)(...)
...Le problème fondamental de la démocratie, c'est que la classe politique refuse de mettre en question le libre-échange, ce qui mène à la baisse des revenus, à la montée des inégalités, bref à une baisse du niveau de vie pour le plus grand nombre. Et désormais à l'insuffisance de la demande, à la crise financière et à la récession. (...)
Toutefois, il existe une chance de sortir par le haut de la course dépressive de la demande et des salaires : cette solution, européenne et non nationale, c'est le protectionnisme. Mais la crise financière rapproche l'heure du choix. (...)
...The fundamental problem of democracy is that the political class refuses to question free trade, which leads to lower incomes, mounting inequality, in short to a decline in living standards for the majority. And now to insufficient demand, to the financial crisis and recession. (...)
However, there is a chance of getting out the right way from the depressive race of demand and wages: this solution, European rather than national, is protectionism. But the financial crisis brings us closer to the time to choose. (...)
Le protectionnisme est peut-être une solution pertinente, mais on dirait que, pour vous, il est la nouvelle utopie révolutionnaire. L'avenir radieux derrière des frontières? Protectionism may be a suitable solution, but it seems that for you, it is the new revolutionary utopia. The bright future behind frontiers?
C'est tout le contraire. Face à la narcissisation des comportements, l'adoption d'un protectionnisme coopératif, mis en oeuvre au niveau d'un collectif supranational, délivré de tout mythe fondateur ethnique ou étatique, montrerait que nous sommes passés à un état supérieur de la conscience humaine et du développement historique.Quite the contrary. Faced with the narcissisation of behaviours, the adoption of cooperative protectionism, implemented at a collective supranational level, free from any ethnic or State founding myth, would demonstrate that have moved up to a higher state of human consciousness and of historical development.

Reactionary? Pessimistic? I'm not sure that's quite it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 10:39:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
afew, thanks for this.  a very enlightening interview.

while it's encouraging that Todd remains doggedly optimistic, i get the sense that, as the journalist puts it, he assumes it as a duty -- i.e. it is an optimism of the head, but not one he feels in his heart (dare i say gut?).  but then again, this appears to be in the same spirit as his statement:

I believe in data much more than in impressions.

as for his advocacy of cooperative protectionism, that is a very catchy name (though neoliberals might consider it somewhat "orwellian") and makes it sound like Economic Fortress Europe can do very well on its own, thank you very much, and does not really need to maintain current levels of trade with the rest of the world.  is that realistic?

the ideals he describes here --

implemented at a collective supranational level, free from any ethnic or State founding myth, would demonstrate that have moved up to a higher state of human consciousness and of historical development.

-- are almost exactly what i had in my reply to melo above.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 10:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree with you on his optimism. He seems conflicted throughout the interview on this. Yet I think we can fairly take his assessment that a halt on the road of progress is not irreversible decline (even if it's not clear how to get moving again!) as his position.

On protectionism, I suppose we'd need to read his book to see what he says in more detail. Here he's simply asserting that it's the right thing to do. How realistic it is would depend on how much protectionism and how articulated, I suspect. I take as more important his attack on "free trade" and (symbolized by that old but obvious code word) neoliberal economics as the root of the break-up of society and the risk to democracy.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 01:21:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(Appologies to Richard Strauss)
Faced with the narcissisation of behaviours, the adoption of cooperative protectionism, implemented at a collective supranational level, free from any ethnic or State founding myth, would demonstrate that have moved up to a higher state of human consciousness and of historical development.
Has anyone read After Democracy?  If so, does he make the above point in the book or as an afterthought?

Much of what he describes are the juxtaposition of the bright and dark sides of Modernity, what Karl Polanyi described as The Great Transformation.  The market society is the epitome of modernity, at least in ideals:  position determined by ability vs. birth; policy based on reason vs. tradition; universal vs. particular values; etc.  

But market capitalism has become an inhuman monster.  Introducing market capitalism into a traditional society is like dropping an intact tree into a stumper.  Atomization. Does anyone want to live in a society in which the single value of Return on Equity outweighs all other values combined?  How do we humanize this system so that due care is given to the needs of sentient beings?

Todd's observations are hardly new.  Polanyi wrote in the '40s.  He has described a destination but what about a path from here to there?  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 12:16:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a good point to be made about modernity; I'd insist more on the technological evolutions that made possible (and now unavoidable) all those model simulations, polls, internet, continuous news, instantaneous movement of capital... Too much, too detailed, too close, leads to atomisation the same way people living in metropoles tend to isolate themselves.

Wouldn't that rather be financial capitalism, btw ?


Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Fri Dec 5th, 2008 at 07:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite interesting.


But the collapse of religion and ideology has destroyed that framework, leaving behind a politically atomised society wide open to manipulation by the likes of Mr Sarkozy or Silvio Berlusconi

The author seems to believe that democracy as such only makes sense in a context of polarised social life, be it by ideologies or religions. Does democracy need ideologies?
One can indeed see the present moment as a time when anyone runs towards the centre with an eye on media coverage and polls, there is no structured set of genuine political ideas - hence no discussion of such ideas; the democratic debate would thus lack its fundamental fire and dissolve in a web of atomic social  issues approached without some coherent social/political vision.
One can also see it as a plea ideology (and reading between the lines, one can quite easily guess which one) makes for its own salvation.


Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)

by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 at 03:32:12 PM EST
Saying that all ideologies are left-wing is an ideological position.

Saying that collective movements are ideological and promotion of individualism are not is an ideological position.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 04:30:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I tend to agree with you. Do you target any remark of mine? How does this relate to the post you reply to?

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last! (Martin Luther King)
by ValentinD (walentijn arobase free spot frança) on Thu Dec 4th, 2008 at 10:30:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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