European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

The left/right Survey

by Helen
Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 09:38:14 AM EST

This morning's salon had a debate on the number of people here who are left handed and whether the L/R ratio among bloggers differs from that of the general population.

wiki states;- "In 1998, a study suggested that approximately 7 to 10 percent of the adult population was left-handed, and that left-handedness is more common in males than females"

This is self-defined, but answer away....

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Poll

Votes: 58
Results	\|	Other Polls

The left/right Survey | 60 comments (60 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 2)

Let's assume that you find a correlation that is different from the population as a whole. So?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 09:57:37 AM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

It will be deemed significant and interesting

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 10:18:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 2)

Yes, ... AND?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 10:41:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 3)

We'll go to Tara, cos tomorrow is a brand new day :-))

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 10:50:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cryptic. Very cryptic. (none / 1)

Tara?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 10:51:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cryptic. Very cryptic. (none / 1)

Gone with the wind. the fake ending.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 10:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cryptic. Very cryptic. (none / 0)

I thought you meant the ancient seat of the High Kings of Ireland!

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 02:30:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cryptic. Very cryptic. (none / 1)

Well, that was the fallback if he got lost.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 03:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

cos tomorrow is a brand new day

"After all, tomorrow is another day," not "tomorrow is a brand new day."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 11:18:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 3)

Well, I just don't give a damn :-))

{snigger}

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 11:36:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

And a late entry for the 2008 ET PN award from Drew....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 12:49:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

"PN"?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 12:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 11)

It comes from the acronym of a Finnish phrase meaning to have carnal knowledge of punctuation, and by extension, meaning quibbling about details. You know how ET is.

We have had a Grand Vizier of PN for 2 years or more - but since the award is self-selecting, I am not sure who it is at the moment. Ted, probably. It also melded somehow into the Rite of the Caol Ila, or the Order of the Golden Peat. I've never attended a seance, but I understand a scale model of the Eiffel Tower plays a part in the ceremony, though I've no idea where they put it ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 01:01:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 4)

Ah, thanks. I'd seen "PN" tossed around here and there in the past, but I'd never bothered to find out the meaning. Cheers.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 01:04:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 2)

But an obfuscatory response from one who is in fact (and always has been) the leader of the Ancient and Awesomely Precise Order of the PN, Grand Vizier Triloqvist himself.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 03:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 2)

'He of the sweeping statements' of whom it has been written that his imprecision with the brush exceeds that of Boy George on community service.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 04:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 5)

One thing is clear: you are decidedly not left handed :-)

By definition, polls are skewed [particularly local ones], but perhaps all the more so when the polled are poor, neglected minorities <sniff>, who suffer from discriminatory right-hand scissor, vegetable peeler, oppressive public pen, policies, and other. And that's just a short list.

Ever watched a lefty trying to negotiate an underground turnstyle designed for right handers? It's even more fun when they're loaded with baggage or packages ;-)

Why not hang on and see what happens, before questioning the poll and its results.

Could turn out to be a fun party. I'll see what I can do.

by Loefing on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 11:45:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

Yes to all, but have you ever watched a left-handed fencer (foils) having extreme fun with an inexperienced righty? The only thing funnier is watching two inexperienced lefties going at it.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 08:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

Left-handedness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Left-handedness and intelligence
In his book Right-Hand, Left-Hand,^[36] Chris McManus of University College London argues that the proportion of left-handers is rising and left-handed people as a group have historically produced an above-average quota of high achievers. He says that left-handers' brains are structured differently in a way that widens their range of abilities, and the genes that determine left-handedness also govern development of the language centers of the brain.
McManus also says that the increase in the 20th century of people identifying as left-handed could produce a corresponding intellectual advance and a leap in the number of mathematical, sporting, or artistic geniuses.
In 2006, researchers at Lafayette College and Johns Hopkins University in a study found that left-handed men are 15 percent richer than right-handed men for those who attended college, and 26 percent richer if they graduated. The wage difference is still unexplainable and does not appear to apply to women.^[37]

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 07:40:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 2)

I'm absolutely right-handed now. I used to be able to write with my left hand. Always played basketball left-handed better for some reason, too.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 11:22:40 AM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

I've always been very left handed. Learning to play guitar was mostly a fight to make my right hand do something other than hang by my side.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 11:37:18 AM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

Playing guitar left handed is something I can still do a bit. Not very well, but I was always a clumsy guitar player even playing right-handed. So perhaps my vote should be changed. I'd forgotten about that.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 11:44:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Warning... (4.00 / 4)

This is all very sinister ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 12:50:21 PM EST

Re: Warning... (none / 1)

I guess someone had to say that and, in a shoot out between you, ceebs and afew, I shoulda guessed you'd be first.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 01:23:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Warning... (4.00 / 2)

It's the right thing to say.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 01:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Warning... (none / 1)

All that is left now is to remain silent.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 01:44:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not as bad (none / 1)

as when thr Wright Brothers left the ground.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 01:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not as bad (none / 1)

There's no-one more sinister than Dexter

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 02:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not as bad (none / 0)

You mean the famous M.B.Dexter?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 03:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not as bad (none / 0)

Yep - the Leicestershire bodyline bowler of the infamous 37 -38 season.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 04:08:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not as bad (none / 0)

The man of the "two balls in play" controversy?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 04:19:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's not as bad (none / 0)

That's him. You must have seen the same clippings from the Mercury. It ended in tears, of course. They didn't get the 'cup' that year.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 04:54:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 3)

I knew this blog was disproportionately dominated by lefties

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 02:33:19 PM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

And yet it's not sinister.

Strange.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 03:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It doesn't APPEAR to be sinister ... (none / 1)

... and if you pause to think about it, that it the most sinister fact of all.

So, by all means, don't pause to think about it.

Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 06:35:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

According to more attentive research, left/right-handedness is not singular -- that is, people can be left-handed for one activity and right-handed for another and ambidextrous for a third.

Myself, I am very left-handed. The only half-way exemption is eating with fork and knife: I hold fork in the left hand and knife in the right. However, at one time in my childhood (can't remember at what age), it has been pointed out to me that I don't use these tools 'right': my active hand is still the left one, and I'm often tearing with the fork rather than cutting with the knife. By then it was too late to re-learn.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 06:29:55 PM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

I have what is called Mixed dominance, where some things I do naturally with the left side, and other things naturally with the left. It's not Ambidexterity, its another seperate thing.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 07:33:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

Yeah, that's me too. I voted ambi-mostly left, but in truth I do some things naturally with my right hand, like throwing a ball. Other things I do with the left and with still others I don't seem to mind which hand I use - like in tennis with volleying.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 09:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

Um, not to be rude or anything, but does the survey assume that everyone here is male, or that everyone is female? It says right there in the quote that there's a difference. I suggest that the poll may need to be restructured...

by asdf on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 08:22:10 PM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

Interesting comment. It would be instructive to find out the male/female proportion of respondents.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 09:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gender too ? (none / 0)

No, you're right, I had that very do'h moment about 6 hours in, by which time there were already a significant number of responses. And so couldn't re-cast the survey.

It came about from a suggestion from Loefing (who was female the last time I met her) to me (born male, now female-ish) so I never considered the gendered angle until too late.

It would be worth re-doing to take into consideration, but I don't know which gender would make for a relevant answer for me as my handedness was entirely natal.

I didn't know holding cutlery in the standard way was handed, it has never occured to me it could be done in a left handed way. So I'd never count that as a right-handed activity.

Interestingly several famous guitarists, Gary Moore, Tony Iommi and, I believe, Steve Vai, are lefties who play right handed. Jimi Hendrix was allegedly able to play right handed, although obviously not as well. FWIW I can play a RH guitar okay upside down (except fingerpicking), but a lot of habitual skills like vibrato don't work.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 06:17:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gender too ? (none / 1)

I'm not all that sure guitar-playing is actually lateralised ; actually, for expert shredding, when playing "right handed", it is the left hand that is really working hard. I think it has more to do with habits - and obviously, once you learn to play one side, switching becomes hard. Violin for example is clearly much more taxing on the left hand, and I never heard of "left handed violins" ...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 08:42:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Gender too ? (none / 0)

A gis of "left handed violins" gets hits...

by asdf on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:48:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 3)

I appeared to be ambidextrous at entry to school and experimented with writing with each hand. By the third grade I had become a lefty, but on April 1 I was the victim of a bad joke which smashed my left elbow, which required open reduction and remained in a cast for over six weeks. This resulted in structural weakness in my left elbow combined with modest hyper extensibility, (I can touch the C1 vertebra with my left index finger from behind my back.)

I was encouraged to learn to write with my right hand and I continued to do so for the rest of my life, with a legible if ugly script. I can write with my left hand, but very poorly and with difficulty. I prefer to throw with my left hand but can throw with either, though more accurately with my left. Even though my left arm has been weaker since the accident I still have more grip strength in my left hand and use it to grip the lids of bottles I have to open.

I suspect that my mental development was more typical of lefties than of righties, but I have always been rather atypical. I suspect that the reported career advantages accruing to lefties is due, in part, to their having to learn to function in a world that was not designed for them and thus acquiring coping skills not required by righties and that those skills turned out to be generalizable.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 08:38:11 PM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

I suspect that the reported career advantages accruing to lefties is due, in part, to their having to learn to function in a world that was not designed for them and thus acquiring coping skills not required by righties and that those skills turned out to be generalizable.

I've had the same thought. Kind of like the prevalence of famous "self-made men" from extremely humble beginnings. Ambition, coping and anger.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 09:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

That and the fact that if you're not from "humble beginnings," you don't qualify as a self-made man. Then you just become a made man...

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Dec 10th, 2008 at 06:56:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (4.00 / 2)

I find it very interesting that there are no "ambidextrous, primarily left" respondents. I would suggest that it is not unreasonable to lump "ambidextrous, primarily right" together with "absolutely left" on the theory that the ambidextrous are lefties that have been converted to righties by subtle or not so subtle social pressures. The increase of lefties over recent time could be explained by a decrease in overt social pressures on lefty children to convert.

In either case ET has a significantly higher proportion of lefties than suggested by the cited '98 survey.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sun Dec 7th, 2008 at 09:15:55 PM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

On the other hand, it might also be that normal righties are more inclined to consider themselves ambidextrous when they can do minor activities with the left hand, however badly compared to the left hand.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 02:58:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

Er, compared to the right hand, I meant.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 03:15:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

Speaking of that, what exactly do we mean by ambidextrous?

I can't write with my left hand. I try occasionally, and can't. I even practiced once, just to see. I don't like cutting with my left hand either, and I've never tried to learn.

But I nonetheless use my left hand quite a bit, more than a lot of other people I know. Yet I've never considered myself really ambidextrous.

by Zwackus on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 05:02:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

I guess that there is a loose saeparation of high-level manipulative activities and low-level ones. I.e. you could do the latter with your secondary hand even in parallel while doing the former with the primary one.

However, there is one high-level activity most people do with their second hand: wiping their asses. Some scientists speculate that this is the actual origin of one-handedness; i.e. those of our ancestors who got the genetic predisposition to touch food etc. with their clean hands got sick less often and had more offspring...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 03:54:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

Hey. Why doesn't the poll add up to 100?

Absolute left + ambivolous left = 22%

Absolutely right + ambivolous right = 77%

Ja, that's 99%

What might that 1% be up to?!

by Loefing on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 09:09:19 PM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

I think the percentages are rounded up.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 09:14:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

Discrepancy due to 'rounding up', maybe, but that still doesn't account for the 1%, whether it is whole or fractional ;-)

What is that 0.xx% thinking?

by Loefing on Mon Dec 8th, 2008 at 09:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

Methinks it's rounded down, not up. Pretty silly. At present:

Absolutely Left: 10 votes/52 votes total = 19.23%, vs. 19% displayed
Ambidextrous; mostly Left: 1/52 = 1.923% vs 1%
ambidextrous; mostly Right: 10/52 = 19.23% vs 19%
Absolutely Right: 31/52 = 59.615% vs 59%

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 03:47:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 0)

Right now (er, left now?), we have 19% + 1% + 19% + 59% = 98%

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 01:47:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

I was born left-handed but was switched. I can do a lot of things either way. My knots are all left-handed. It came in handy writing Arabic, too.

by rifek on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 12:05:02 AM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

So basically the conclusion is that ET is a nest of atheist Leftist lefties...?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 08:17:55 AM EST

Re: The left/right Survey (none / 1)

Well thank God we figured that one out. Something I was not aware of. And it only took 50+ comments. Such efficiency.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 9th, 2008 at 08:37:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]