What's in a census?

by In Wales
Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 09:08:15 AM EST

The TUC and Stonewall (UK gay rights organisation) are calling for the UK 2011 census to include a question on sexual orientation.

Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered people are the only key social group not currently included in the census.

The TUC and Stonewall believe that excluding sexual orientation data places LGBT groups at a disadvantage, as local authorities don’t have an idea of numbers of LGBT people in their communities when they are allocating resources for services.


Recent changes to legislation have strengthened rights for gay people both in the workplace and in wider society, to be free from discrimination. Public sector duties (responsibilities) to promote equality and good relations between groups and to eliminate discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation can't be tackled effectively if no robust evidence is available to makes decisions on regarding service delivery and priorities.

The TUC and Stonewall recognise that there will be some opposition so have suggested that respondents be given the right to answer ‘prefer not to say’. They also recognise that there is no agreement among transgender people about whether there should be a question, and therefore the ONS is asked to consider how to collect data on this community.

The UK census website provides demographics and population breakdowns by geography and category across the wide range of questions asked in the census.

There always seems to be a need for more information or more options. So far, the census has increased the number of categories for ethnicity/race that people can choose from but although British, Scottish and Irish are included, Welsh isn't.

And of course the campaign to include Jedi as a religion failed...

The Office for National Statistics have

launched a programme of question development and testing, to ensure that the 2011 Census meets as many user requirements as possible. New questions have been developed for topics where there is a new demand for information, and existing questions have been redeveloped to account for increasing or changing user requirements.

I love looking at our census website and the analysis of census returns - see here for 2001 results and as far as I am concerned, the more information, the better (although less useful if the census becomes too complex to fill in for the average person).

Especially with the equalities agenda, being able to hold up concrete evidence to show the correlation between caring responsibilities and part time or lower paid working, or segregation of ethnic groups into certain types of employment, for example, is vital in the drive to find the causes and therefore solutions to such deeply entrenched inequalities in the UK.

The UK census runs every 10 years, providing a wealth of information on the UK population, and it is important for this to adapt to social changes.
I have no idea what type of information can be gleaned from census information across all of Europe or how comparable are they on a European level in terms of definitions and type of information collected (I suspect not very, based on my own experience of trying to collate data on physical activity levels from across Europe).
But do any other European countries collect information on sexual orientation?

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In France... (And in french :-) )

Décret n° 2003-485 du 5 juin 2003
relatif au recensement de la population

Article 38
I - Les informations individuelles utilisées durant la phase de collecte sont :

  • 1. Des données de localisation des immeubles ;
  • 2. Des données portant sur les personnes physiques et concernant le nom et les prénoms, la date et le lieu de naissance, le sexe, la nationalité, la situation familiale, le niveau et la nature de la formation, les études, les activités professionnelles, le lieu de résidence, le lieu d'étude ou de travail, la résidence antérieure, les moyens de transport,
les conditions de logement et l'équipement en véhicules automobiles. Le nom et le prénom ne sont pas enregistrés dans le fichier de saisie informatique utilisé pour les besoins du recensement ;
  • 3. Des données portant sur les logements et concernant les caractéristiques de confort et d'occupation ;
  • 4. Des données portant sur les immeubles bâtis et concernant leur année de construction et leurs caractéristiques d'équipement.

http://www.insee.fr/fr/ppp/sommaire/imeths01v.pdf for more informations...

Mostly about the addresses and the buildings (house, etc.).
For physical persons : Name; surname, birth date, birth place, sex, nationality, family status (married single windowed, etc. - no same sex couple-),  studies level, studies branch, profession, residency place, work or study place, precedent residency place, means of transportation, housing conditions and car property...

No religion, no ethnicity, no sexual preferences, no revenues levels...
Confidentiality for a 100 years, with heavy penalties !

The French Nation is one and indivisible... < start anthem here>

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 09:53:54 AM EST
This doesn't prevent sociological surveys (even those conducted by state agencies) from asking about such identity data, but the census cannot.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:21:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not ethnicity if there is government funding.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 10:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How can the government know and use information about the demographics of the population if it doesn't collect it comprehensively through the census? Surveys are only samples and the census should cover as near possible every household.

How can public policies and services be designed if you don't have an in depth understanding of what makes up your population?  Staggering.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 12:25:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why is ethnicity relevant to services the government provides ?

The last time the French government officially gathered ethnicities, the service it provided was trains to Germany...

Oh, and it's not only the census : state researchers aren't supposed to make surveys about ethnicity, at all.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 01:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you... :-)
I was wondering how I could manage a short reply in my rusted english... And gave up ! :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 01:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Because different ethnic groups may face different disadvantages in terms of accessing healthcare, education, employment and so on.  

If you have an understanding of what these issues are and you know area by area what the ethnic mix is ie where you have areas of high muslim populations or other immigrant communities or asian or chinese groups etc, then any social problems causing disadvantage and exclusion can be tackled by altering public policies to reflect local populations in an area. ie improving access and service provision to meet the needs of the population rather than assuming one size fits all.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 02:13:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That is in a community oriented system...! We have a collectivity oriented one (or would like)! There are regional and local differences provisioned, but has nothing to do with ethnicity or religion. It's supposed to be a laic country, still state funds even mosques, because citizens "ask" for it in sufficient numbers (democracy) or because the local mayor thinks it will bring in votes... It could be a bowling center, or a rugby play field, same thing!

That's why I don't believe in a short answer, as it is cultural, deeply rooted (one french revolution with quite a blood bath), and recent history (as linca stated) keeps us with shame when we see a distinctive sign of religion (as a yellow star on a jacket) !

Integration is the word..! Using education, one language, one law, for the benefits of all... It's about the "civitas", not the individual.

I'm not just joking when I state that we do have a problem in Europe (or will have) between these two culture (community vs collectivity).
Till we dwell on the surface of things, everyone agrees... But if you go deeper there are real divergences ! Not so on the goals, but more on the way to reach them !
It works with economics, as well as social welfare, and even with sustainability... Or unions :-)

The point of sites like E.T. is that, those willing can start to listen to others, trying to understand their viewpoints, thinking of what can be done to bring these very different viewpoints together, or at least next one to the other, so that some common goals can be achieved without bad feelings, war or worse... And, of course, that no one is left behind ! :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 03:34:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what a great, heartfelt comment!

you summed up perfectly why blogging here feels so good.

;)

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 04:56:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Grazie mille :-)
Didn't you take some sort of vow about E.T. ??? <LOL>

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 05:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yeah, so?

i didn't know the internet could bite before, know better now, <LOL>

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 06:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is always more then one "lou ravi" (lo deliziato maybe ?) in one given location :-)
I think that's what I want to be when I grow up...

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 06:38:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
had to google those...

lou ravi sounds like village idiot, and there is some truth to that.

just saw a hardtalk interview with desmond morris, zoologist author of 'the naked ape' where he said only humans carry play into adulthood so completely.

There are no blank spots on the map any more, anywhere on earth. You want a blank spot on the map, you gotta leave the map behind. Jon Krakauer

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 07:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe the US census (past ones -they are always changing) asks ethnic and race related questions but not sexual pref.  Yes, here is a reference for the 2000 one.

http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/content.htm

won't wonders never cease? _ Snuffy Smith

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 03:50:39 PM EST
I think that while the collection of statistical data about LGBT people on the next census would certainly be useful, I fear that it would be potentially very inaccurate. The census is taken on the basis of households, and so disclosure may be a difficult issue for some LGB people, and possibly not even an option for a lot of the T. The question would therefore have to be optional, but that would mean that a sampling bias could occur, with LGBT people proportionally more likely to answer the question, as issues regarding sexuality is of interest to them, while straight people would skip the question as 'irrelevant' (hey, they're the default, don't you know?).

I would be interested to know how they currently go about estimating the number of LGBT people. I can't think of that many situations where people are both asked and expected to answer a question on their sexuality/gender identity, which a large portion of the population. I suppose GUM clinics are one place where sexuality is regularly disclosed and recorded, and the NHS must have statistics about how many trans people they have seen. But in neither case would it give a true reflection, as LGB are more exposed to safe sex messages and more likely to attend GUM clinics (supposedly, I mean, the NHS and NGOs keep pushing them), and not all trans people go through the NHS.

Hmm, no answers, sorry. I just think that it would be something worthwhile collecting, at least once, but not easy to do so. I suppose that while society has prejudice against LGBT people, it will be difficult to get proper information. Plus, some folk would shriek at the idea of the 'state' asking about our sex lives...

Member of the Anti-Fabulousness League since 1987.

by Ephemera on Wed Feb 13th, 2008 at 07:42:45 PM EST


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