European Tribune

Mentors

by Sven Triloqvist
Thu Feb 14th, 2008 at 02:22:06 PM EST

In Greek mythology, Mentor was the son of Alcumus and, in his old age, a friend of Odysseus. When Odysseus left for the Trojan War he placed Mentor in charge of his son, Telemachus, and of his palace. When Athena visited Telemachus she took the disguise of Mentor to hide herself from the suitors of Telemachus' mother Penelope.

<..>

This is the source of the modern use of the word mentor: a trusted friend, counselor or teacher, usually a more experienced person. Some professions have "mentoring programs" in which newcomers are paired with more experienced people in order to obtain good examples and advice as they advance, and schools sometimes have mentoring programs for new students or students who are having difficulties.


I got to thinking about this because last night I was discussing with my singing daughter's godfather, his investment of time, skill and even cash in her music career. He is a keen musician and involved in the outskirts of the music business. I didn't ask him to help - but he had felt a duty as her godfather, and, of course, a like interest that was fun for him. I do my bit too, since I was in the business and have many contacts - but I don't want to impose my musical interests on her. I have had enough influence anyway as a parent.

He talked about her current interest in melody-less beats. He made the point that if she went in that direction, he might lose interest in her musical development. I said that as a mentor his job was empowerment, not the imposition of taste or style. We argued somewhat heatedly. I think I am right - especially in this particular case. My daughter has over 2 years of school left before she reaches majority. There isn't going to be any record contract until then at the minimum. So now is the time to experiment, make mistakes and learn the craft. And you need, as a teenager, to be empowered to do those things. Part of the empowering is challenging, part advice and wisdom, part being helpful with resources, part giving security. That is what mentoring is about IMO.

The reward for the mentor is not in the giving, but in taking pride in the future success of the protégé. It is a social investment, not a financial investment.

We have all had mentors - people who saw something in us worthy of a helping hand. At 14, my father arranged for a cinema manager friend to teach me the basics of photography. He gave a lot of his time and I shall be forever grateful for that grounding. At 16 my art teacher more or less forced me to go to the local art school a couple of evenings a week to do a life drawing class. Apart from the ego boost of making me the only boy in the school who had seen totally naked women live, my teacher knew that I would get hooked on that art school world, the smells, the sights, the freedom. And I also got that most important gift of draftsmanship that life drawing and painting impart best. At 18 I studied under one of the foremost art educators of the Sixties. He was a mentor for all in that class. And so it goes.

For some reason the film camera teacher at film school took a shine to me. He was an alcoholic former RAF bomber film cameraman during WWII. He knew everything about every type of movie camera, and taught me every trick of the trade. I got my first professional jobs as his clapper/loader on commercials, and actually ended up shooting most of them because he was so drunk on location. The latest cameras then (eg Éclair 16mm) were new technology for him, but he had taught me so well that I quickly mastered them too. He had given me the basics and let me make my mistakes. But I always thought that he wanted at least someone else to know what he knew, and make good use of it. He was a mentor.

There have been many other mentors since, but for a few years now I have found myself in the mentoring role. It gives me a great deal of pleasure to help and watch young people develop their creativity over time. It is about empowerment - to empower them to find their own creativity. As a mentor, one can help with process, but should not help in product. Besides which, the `new creativity' a protégé might come up with is a good way of learning something new oneself.

The mentor has a special role in society - the Jiminy Cricket for Pinocchios.

What say you?

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Mentoring is so essential to a vocation that there ought to be a ministry for it.  Definitely is a social function to promote if we want people to have the best ´activity´ for their talents in the upcoming, non-growth world.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Thu Feb 14th, 2008 at 04:07:13 PM EST
I was wondering why in Spain the word mentor is so seldomly use.. there are no mentor... or th ementors that exist are relatd with helping finding a job.. or helping advance someone by removing obtacles or getting jobs without qualification?

I guess from the "caciques" networks... it is interesting to see how both got confused... more like how mentor went in to decadence here.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu Feb 14th, 2008 at 04:15:06 PM EST
Maybe I'm entirely missing your point, but...

The reward for the mentor is not in the giving, but in taking pride in the future success of the protégé. It is a social investment, not a financial investment.

In the past... distant past, the reward for the master was the payment received upon taking a new apprentice and the work done by the apprentice for the master. The exchange had financial benefit.

Today, as you suggest, the reward is societal. The mentor is helping the protégé, the next generation, to acquire the skills and wisdom he or she has to give. Is this enough for most people to bother with mentoring? I do not know for certain, but I suspect not.

In addition to there only being the intangible reward for mentoring, there are also additional constraints placed on potential mentors, such as the need to make an income or even, at younger ages, differences in 'parenting' between the teacher and the parent(s).

You give examples such as music and photography which are artistic endeavors. I believe fewer people support themselves by artistic endeavors and as I see it, we've moved away largely as a society from craft skills where an individual's ability is valued.

With industrialization, interchangeability and uniformity are more valued than individual skill. Uniform mediocrity makes people replaceable. If someone was brilliant then, he or she is harder to replace and thus less desirable.

Finally, I think people are not staying with one thing, one skill for very long anymore. There may be very few masters and of those masters, even fewer who care to share their talents with the next generation and maybe even fewer of the next generation who want to take the time to learn.

by Magnifico on Thu Feb 14th, 2008 at 04:45:50 PM EST
Exactly. To empower people to acquire skills and value them. It is not the skill to DO a job, as in the apprentice relationship, but the skill to understand the organization of any type of knowledge.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 14th, 2008 at 04:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So right ! The reply as the whole thing ! :-)

This why I'm still fighting the shortening of architectural studies in France. The skill to do the job can be acquired quite quickly... The skill of knowing what you are doing, needs time, trials and failures, and an around the word trip (physical or virtual through reading :-) )!

There is teaching and there is mentoring. There is a mentoring part in teaching, but it escapes the radar of some teachers...!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman

by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Thu Feb 14th, 2008 at 06:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it seems that here we do disagree again :-) I don't think a mentor has to agree with anything the mentored person prefers to do; if the mentor sincerely believes the latter is making a bad choice they should say so and try to explain their opinion. They may be wrong, but they would be even more wrong to fail to defend what they sincerely believe.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 14th, 2008 at 07:11:37 PM EST
I don't think we disagree ;-)

Sincerely held opinions are important and should be expressed. But a mentorship is voluntary (except within an educational structure). The mentor chooses the protégé, not the other way round. That choice is made in connection with beliefs.

The protégé is free to leave at any time. And there always comes the moment when the protégé feels themself to be ready to step out on their own. It is another form of parenting. The mentor also has to know when to let go.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:08:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It depends how it is done.  There's nothing more damaging than to be told - "you're wrong, you shouldn't explore that, there's no point" which is always a danger when a mentor thoroughly disagrees with the direction a protege may wish to take. Explaining why a mentor thinks that a choice may not be a good one but still leaving things free and open for experimenting with is fine, but laying down the line isn't. And you never know what could come out of it all when you follow something out of your own school of thought.

People should not have a fear of trying new things in case of disapproval or failure.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 12:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's nothing more damaging than to be told - "you're wrong, you shouldn't explore that, there's no point" which is always a danger when a mentor thoroughly disagrees with the direction a protege may wish to take.

Not necessarily - the person being given the advice, which, as I said, should be explained, might actually accept the explanation and the advice. If not they are free to decide for themselves, and might decide to go ahead anyway - but might actually respect the mentor for having been honest with them. Personally I'd rather someone gave me their honest opinion, even if I might not like it, rather than not telling me they thought something was definitely a waste of time, in case I might be "damaged" - which I would find rather patronising.

And you never know what could come out of it all when you follow something out of your own school of thought.

I'm supposing that the mentor has very good reasons for their negative view and that it is to do with things about which they have some expertise. Millions of things MIGHT - just possibly - work out, but part of the point of a mentor is to advise about which things are almost certainly a waste of time, since we don't have infinite time to try out all possibilities.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is not clear form your post whether he doesn't want to follow her becase he is not interested, and not qualified, himself, or because he really oppose the idea, for her sake. Of course those two versions are ot entirely distinct, but also not quite the same.

Suppose your daughter's interest moved from music to, say, painting. In that case it would be no more than natural for the mentor to say "I won't follow you there", and this has nothing to do with imposing.

On the other hand, he might really think her choice is 'bad', either for herself in the long run, or because he thinks it is a choice people in general shouldn't make. That would be imposing of his opinion, and it could be either justified or not.

by GreatZamfir on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 04:43:15 AM EST
More in general, isn't it true that a mentorship only works if the plans and interests of mentor and child are sufficiently aligned? A mentor is worth a lot, and adapting your views and plans closer to the mentors ideas might be worth it, but this only stretches so far.

Same on the other side: being a mentor really requires shared interest in the field. The godfather realtion might suggest a bit more leeway, but in the end it won't work if the differences are too big.

Unless, of course, your daughter convinces him that her melodyless music really is more interesting than he thought. Encountering the new ideas of younger people should be part of the reward of mentorship, shouldn't it?

by GreatZamfir on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 04:55:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed. Encountering new ideas is one of the rewards of mentorship.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:09:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Encountering new ideas happens both ways.

I think mentorship differs from teaching in that it is  "two way" rather than "one way".

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:18:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are many good teachers who might disagree, certainy beyond secondary education;-)

But yes, mentoring is a two way informal relationship.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 06:53:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are, of course many formal, professional master/student relationships, but what I see as being different about mentoring is the voluntary aspect which goes over and beyond the call of being a teacher, godparent, employer etc.

Mentors may get vicarious reward through the success of their proteges, or as in your case, the protege may pay back the debt by helping his master (when the latter is too drunk to do the job, as in your case).  

But ultimately it is a self-less thing.  You may or may not get something back out of it, and my feeling is that you can never fully pay back your parents/mentors in any case, and that you owe it not to them, but to your children or to your own proteges in due course to pass on the benefits of your experience.

Things get complicated, psychologically, if people feel they owe or are owed as a result of such relationships - charities can be very difficult places to work in if people feel they are entitled to misguided loyalty as a reward for their service.

Tell your friend that your daughter needs the space to experiment and make mistakes. That his advice and guidance is valued even if not always adopted.  The important thing is the relationship of giving and caring rather than the content of that relationship which may easily move away from the type of music he is expert in.  It is more important that he remains supportive even when the direction taken is not one he is comfortable with.

The whole point about art is that it isn't simply a replication of what has gone before.  Some rupture is inevitable if true growth and creativity is to take place. A true mentor rejoices when their protege finds their own voice.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 08:19:35 AM EST
Finding one's own voice is exactly it. That is how I see the role of mentor - to faciltate this.

And I hardly think it applies just to the arts. Whatever we do, isn't it about finding one's own voice? Being a person, not cannon fodder. A very French way of democracy ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 09:10:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He is a keen musician

He talked about her current interest in melody-less beats.

Heh...if he means she's into rap, or variation thereof, then, well, he can say "Go, yeah!" but maybe there's not much he can offer--there's not a lot of musical (=playing an instrument) production in a lot of (what I've heard anyway) four-four talkover.  There's a cadence aspect, maybe.  If she's interested in percussion--I thoroughly recommend that development but not all musicians (not many maybe!) are comfortable outside the 3/4 4/4.  

A New York drummer by the name of Joe was out of work and desperately  searching for a gig. He went to the union office where they told him about plentiful  jobs in Greece. "Greece?", the drummer said. The union representative replied,  "Hey, do you want to work or don't you?".

 So the man packed his bags and headed off to Greece. He was to meet up with  an old guy by the name of Tarek at a small pub near the town of Perin. Upon his  arrival, he located the pub but Tarek was nowhere to be found.

 He tracked Tarek down later by phone. Tarek said he needed him for a last minute  wedding gig tonight at the Oasis hotel. There would be over 400 guests but  unfortunately there wouldn't be time for a rehearsal. Tarek said, "Just show up  with your drums and be ready to play." Well, the NY drummer wasn't that  nervous. He had played hundreds of wedding gigs back in New York and he  was just happy to have some work.

 Joe arrived at the hotel on time. The whole band was there except the band  leader, Tarek. He set up his drums and patiently awaited for the old guy. Tarek  finally arrived 5 minutes before they were supposed to go on, frantically set up  his music stand and raised his arm to lead the band. "Wait!," shouted the NY  drummer, "what are we playing?" Tarek looked at him calmly (knowing he was a  professional drummer) and stated, "Just relax and give me strong backbeats on 7  and 13."

(I may have mentioned this before, but I know a percussionist who told me, eyes bright, that he had found the equal division of seven.  "It's four and a half," he said, then beat it out on the table and a wine bottle.  He's also played me a four beat where each beat was a very speedy five.  I think a lot of kids [maybe not around the black sea and points beyond!] are inculcated to 4/4, so there's a lack of interest = ears can't hear or "feel" compound metre, it took me a while to really get the flavours of seven, and I still haven't quite grasped five--imagine "backbeats on 7 and 13"!--something to do with not dancing when touching, or not stepping out the beats...or something!)

Hey, at least there's a drummer joke!

Re: mentors, the felicity of having a person who takes a personal interest who also has relevant technical/professional knowledge/access...ach...it's a subtle relationship, very wu wei--and humour, sorta friendship but with such a steep gradient of knowledge/skill that equality can't exist in the knowledge that the learner wants to learn what the knower already knows--and then they can, I dunno, do something else where their knowledge is equal--breaking the hierarchy while acknowledging it in the specific area(s) where the gradient exists.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 09:11:37 AM EST
It took me awhile to apprehend Dave Brubeck's rhythm experiments. I appreciated them, but I couldn't figure out what he - and his group - were doing. You couldn't really count it; but you could feel/sense it. (Final analysis - I think that it was an overlay.)

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 12:03:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Try counting out raga rhythms. You can get to counts of 17.

I have an ongoing argument about the existence of 1/8th notes. Yes, I say, they do not exist in:

Scales in traditional Western music generally consist of seven notes and repeat at the octave. Notes in the commonly used scales are separated by whole and half step intervals of tones and semitones. The harmonic minor scale includes a three-semitone step; the pentatonic includes two of these.

..But they exist in some of the myriad of other scales (or sets of note intervals or pitch classes). Especially when you go East from Greece. Take your pick; diatonic, chromatic, whole tone, pentatonic, hexatonic, heptatonic, ditonic, tritonic, tetratonicc, octatonic. Phrygian and Davis forbid, microtonal...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:23:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Properly done Gregorian plainchant isn't in a fixed time scale, instead has an accelerating and decelerating scheme through the individual lines. (Most people who get it wrong have it far too regular) I've never heard recorded plainchant done right.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's one in seven time--see how long (or short!) it takes to pick it up; and how easy it is to lose the rhythm (at least for my 4/4 saturated ears.)

Dave Brubeck!  I don't really know his music, bar the famous Take Five--in five, I don't know if this is the piece you mean, the count's really easy once you have it--it's five: ONE two (and) three ONE two, ONE two (and) three

The beginning...ta di da da 'DA di da di da DA DUM' Da (two three, ONE two; ONE two three...)

(I'm sure you know all this!  But it's a great video--drum solo in five!)



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This stuff about 4/4 or 7 whatever is all so alien to me!  What does it mean?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how many beats there are in each bar of music.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:49:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why is 7 harder to get the head around than 4?
And I don't know what a bar of music is either...!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:55:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
because most music and rythms people encounter is in four beats to the bar  so people tend to try and interpret what their hearing in blocks of four notes.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 01:59:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a case to be made that the entire w*estern society is in 4/4.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:14:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A serious case. marching behind a flag with big boots.  The west needs to march to a Jazz beat. ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:47:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A bar (or measure) is just the name for a division of written music.  Each bar has a certain number of beats.  It's easier to write music out in bars--it means the conductor can say, "Let's start from bar forty two" instead of saying, "Let's start where the violin does that thing and the cellos are doing that other thing," though some composers have written without bar lines--just loads of notes across the page.

A four beat is: tapping your leg and counting ONE two three four ONE two three four--you can feel where the ONE should be, it feels natural.

A waltz, which is in three time, goes ONE two three, ONE two three.

A seven beat (like the song above) counts in sevens, which can be broken all kinds of ways.

You can start with a section of four

ONE two three four

followed by a three (like a waltz: ONE two three)

If you try and tap it out on your knee

ONE two three four ONE two three ONE two three four ONE two three, you'll feel it's not balanced.  

You can also try:

ONE two three ONE two ONE two ONE two three ONE two ONE two

which is just a variation on seven.  

Now imagine a song which goes:

ONE two three ONE two ONE two
ONE two ONE two ONE two three
ONE two ONE two ONE two three
ONE two three ONE two three four
ONE two three four ONE two ONE!

If you find seven patterns as easy to tap out as fours you're going to have great fun with eastern music generally (starting somewhere near DoDo), indian beats (as Sven mentioned--they have crazy counting patterns where they go from one to ten beats then back to one again, then doubling up--enlightend stomping!)


Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 02:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What about drummers?  Don't they have a whole variety of beats to get used to?  I don't know if I am just asking absurd questions. I know zero about music in these terms.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 04:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably one of the most difficult two hand beat rhythms for a starting drummer is the paradiddle: left-right-left-left-right-left-right-right.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tell me when I get boring ;)

You can think about music as tones.  Tones have pitch (higher/lower) and texture (hard, soft, rounded, pinched...you name it).  Each instrument has a tonal range--it can't play every possible pitch (think of the topmost note on a cello--violins play higher; vice versa, the lowest note on a violin is higher than the lowest note on a cello.)  The composition of an instrument (wood, metal, plastic, mixes of materials) and its shape (solid, hollowed out in one, two, three sections etc.) gives it a specific texture (the difference between the sound of an un-plugged-in electric guitar [solid body] and an acoustic guitar [hollowed out body]...

Percussion instruments have tones--tubular bells are pitched, as are gongs, timpani, triangles, even a snare drum has a specific range of tones--the thinner the snare the higher the tone....

From tones you can create melodies--sequences of tones--and harmonies--more than one tone playing at the same time.

Counterpoint (Bach!) is music for two (or more!) melodies--but staying with two, you have two different sets of notes being played.  Imagine one person whistling one tune while another person whistles a different tune.  Where the two tunes overlap, you get harmonies--Bach is the master of this mix of harmony and melody just using (but not only!) a maximum of only two notes at a time, and often just one.

Here's some music (breaking the page!): you can see three notes being played together at the beginning, then on the top line a series of notes; on the bottom line a different series of notes.

You can see the bar lines too (the vertical black lines--the first one appears after the fifth note at the top moving left to right.)

At the very left you can see a 3 above a 4.  Ignore the 4 and think of the three: it means there are going to be three beats in every bar.  If you look at the top line in the second bar, you can see the three beats.

It doesn't matter which instrumentare playing: they all have to play beats.

That's not true, though.  A trumpet can appear softly, grow louder, then fade, and this effect may appear outside of the basic ONE two three structure.  Percussive instruments are those that automatically play a beat (think of hitting something--a definite pulse; think of slowly breathing out--it has a beginning, but no clear pulse--though rising and falling are what pulses do...among other things!)

If you want people to dance a waltz you play three beats with the emphasis on the first beat.  ONE two three, ONE two three, ONE two three, ONE two three--and everyone starts dancing.  Note that there are four "ONE two three" groups: That's a round, your brain feels a "coming back to the beginning".

Now-let's get strange.  Let's call that a FOUR beat.  Each beat is broken into three parts, so imagine saying

ONE two three four
ONE two three four
ONE (two three) two (two three) three (two three) four (two three)

If you feel a pulse, that's rhythm.  If you enjoy the pulse, if you enjoy the movement, your body moves.  If the music goes POOM!  POOM!  POOM! POOM! it's playing a fourbeat, and each beat is a single POOM!  If you imagine POOM! POOM! POOM! POOM! you can imagine nodding your head to it...but not to ONE (two three) two (two three.)

Rock music is four beat, with two emphasis points: one the first beat and the third--

u-ONE two Three four.  Normally the Bumfh! first beat is played with a bass drum, while the tink! third beat is played on a higher sounding instrument, such as a snare drum.  The second and fourth beats are usually tapped out on a cymbal of some kind.  (boom an chich an, boom an chich an....four beats)

So anything can become a fourbeat: you take whatever crazy pattern you like and repeat it four times.  Each repetition of the crazy pattern is a beat.  The simplest pattern is BOOM! or TING! or HUH! or Yeah!...

{%:-}

Historically, humans have found many other patterns than the circular four.  The circular four is good for trance-states (similar to the no-beats in ambient music--only the four beat is more--active!  more energetic.  Anything that isn't playing fours sounds cerebral--you have to think about it; but not if from birth you have consistently heard various beat patterns and also observed specific movements enacted to the various patterns.  Some music doesn't have an overall beat.  It gets faster, changes patterns when maybe a dancer acts out a different character.

I think rhythmic diversity--the pleasure in the various different patterns and patterns of patterns we can create--is energising.  I understand "dumbing down" as the process whereby a new generation can no longer appreciate a rhythm different to POOM! POOM! POOM! POOM! or maybe an UmpaChinkaUmpaChinka.  That's unfair, though, as much fourbeat music has great variety inside each beat--trouble is, then they loop it up and it stays the same for the whole song!  But maybe that's okay if the melodies and harmonies are supposed to be at the forefront.  There are crazy tunes that burst out--you hear one and mention it to another person who says, "Yeah, I know it, it's lovely!"  or banging or the top or top rate or really rather good--ya know, it gets an affirmation as music.

Part of european tradition has been to write music down as notes so that another player at another time can make the same music--note perfect--and with the correct rhythm: that 3 back there that said there are three beats to a bar, so the music will go ONE two three ONE two three--only of course it doesn't, because melodies may be stretched across bars so that the rhythm becomes ONE and two and three AND one AND two AND three AND ONE and two and three and....

Drummers learn to play the beats on their instruments--and as their instruments have a percussive sound--BUMF! WHOOMF! Crash boom tink shk po ta--the rhythmic qualities are clearly present.  The same goes for a piano, which is a percussion instrument with a large tonal range, so it can play rhythms at the same time as melodies and harmonies.

Because we all enjoy fourbeat rhythms, because we enjoy the circularity, but are also prone to boredom, any instrument can use the internal beats to create alternative rhythms within the individual beats

ONE (two three) two (two three) three (two three) four (two three)

(a) ONE (anna) two (a give me a) three (hey hey boy) four (!) anna ONE...

So your question:

Don't they have a whole variety of beats to get used to?

The answer is yes--but change "beats" to rhythms and note that so does every musician, meaning every person directly involved in playing a specific piece of music.

Heh!  You got me rambling.  I hope that's of some use!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 06:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Awesome! Thank you.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 03:32:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I remember seeing Take Five put into a 4/4 bar. Ugh.

Also, blue rondo a la turk as some nice rhythm experiment, although the bar is a standard 9/8

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Feb 15th, 2008 at 05:49:48 PM EST
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