European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Thursday Open Thread

by In Wales
Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:26:22 PM EST

Spin some yarn

. Home
. About
. Contact
. New User Guide
. FAQ
. Search
. Search (Google)
. Archives (Wiki)
Art, Economics, Energy, Environment, EU Politics, Mech & Tech, By Country

Username:
Password:

. Make a new account
. Reset password

Poll

Votes: 19
Results	\|	Other Polls

Thursday Open Thread | 81 comments (81 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

I'm off to a union sponsored film festival about, well, unions. A 'discussion' and then Bread and Roses which is a Ken Loach film. I've not seen it before but I like his work so I hope it will be good.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:29:07 PM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Have you mentioned what the subject is for the photo blog tomorrow?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, no I haven't. (none / 1)

That would be cafe and pub photos which I will allow to extend to street photos - candid shots I guess.

I need to work out how to simplify that for the header tomorrow. Cafe, pub and candid street shots. And then photos as usual.

Thanks for the reminder :)

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:40:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (none / 1)

Social photos?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (4.00 / 2)

Yeah. Or people brawling if you like.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:50:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (none / 1)

Even bawling or balling?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:56:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (4.00 / 2)

No. No pathos, no eros.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (4.00 / 2)

That's what art is all about, No?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:04:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (none / 1)

Who said this was about art?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (none / 1)

Dat is an insult!

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (none / 1)

Choize youz weppuns!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:26:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (none / 1)

Wet sopalins!

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Actually, no I haven't. (4.00 / 2)

Oh no I back out!

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

please share how you liked the film.

they show it regularly here in italy, i found it very well done. he's a ken loach is a frickin' genius film-maker, imnsho-

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 at 03:55:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I ought to diary it but I'm terrible at retaining the details needed, could give it a go though if anyone is bothered.

I really enjoyed it and especially liked the mix of languages which meant that half of it was subtitled!

I found it very gritty, real - Ken Loach's trademark style. It was also powerful not in a we won in the end way but by showing the reality of daily life for Mexican immigrants and how appalling conditions at work are for them and how this impacts on the home life, living on poverty wages with no healthcare or pensions. Then the huge resistance to unions on part of the employers, obviously, but also the fear on part of the workers, making it so hard for the unions to find their way in.
When they finally won, that telephone call to the jail cell seemed too neat but I won't get picky on that. It was an excellent film.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 at 03:15:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

yeah, it was the best kind of documentary/entertainment, showing very clearly the tensions that shopfloor life can create, and how unions have to fight so hard to do their valuable work.
i agree about the ending, btw.

if anyone could write a meaningful diary about unions and cinema, it'd be you.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 at 04:19:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Petition has crossed 20,000!

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 12:54:28 PM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

A first draft. The lines are for the UK, Belgium, France, Austria and Germany (which just passed Portugal).

I think one can see fairly consistent exponential decay across countries. The last peak is due to the Guardian, and one can also see the effect of today's mentions in the German press.

Note that "region" is not "nationality". A lot of the "France" signatures are British citizens.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

there was also a story about it in the dailyl mail yesterday

and I mentioned it on a web site earlier today

by zoe on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

damn that messes with my automatic, "anything published in the daily mail is intrinsicly wrong" rule.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 05:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Hi, mmmm!

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 06:43:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

by zoe on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 07:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

You know, if nothing else, I hope that this is giving Blair indigestion every time he opens a paper to read about himself at the breakfast table.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:50:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

It's possibly a coincidence that we're seeing a slew of stories about sexed-up dossiers and UK-supported rendition flights now.

But I think people still don't know the truth about rendition - which is that Afghanis and Iraqis were picked up off the streets more or less at random, flown to Gitmo, and tortured for no reason at all.

Bush needed someone to fill their jail. If he couldn't find Bin Laden, pretty much anyone at all would do as a PR substitute.

And the man who supported this barbarism wants the top job in Europe?

Not. Going. To. Happen.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

What do you mean? We've known pretty much immediately after it happened that Afghans around Mazar-i-Sharif were sold to US troops during Operation Enduring Freedom.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Not just Afghans. One prominent detainee was a London chef who was allegedly somewhere in Afghanistan cooking up bomb plots, but who has a cast-iron London alibi which proves that all he was cooking were chips and burgers.

Gitmo is beyond grand guignol - ethically and legally it's a complete farce.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 07:25:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

If only.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 05:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 6)

LOL.

Putin ideal person to head Northern Rock

"He has a strong personal brand, undimmed self-belief, a devoted public following, a distinctive balding pate and - unlike Adam Applegarth - plentiful experience of bringing private-sector assets gently under the wing of the state."

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:05:01 PM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Well, jolly good, but we do like them with shirts on, you know?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:27:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

LOL. I think it would be a coup and he should totally do it, however silly it sounds. In the future there will not be wars with missiles and tanks. Invading countries will just own you. First, they'll buy up your sports teams. Then take over your banks. In a decade everyone in London will be speaking Russian. ;)

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Englicheskaya, surely?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:06:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

About the shirt issue: (none / 1)

Speak for yourself:

Wiki: Adam Applegarth

It was revealed that he was conducting an affair with a junior employee when the bank was running into trouble.

Though I supposed it is entirely possible to conduct an affair with your shirt on... I'm rather hoping that was the case with McCain, in the event someone feels it nec. to leak photos. But as for Adam, I'm guessing it was either such a mad affair that he completely forgot he was meant to be running a bank, or he was so freaked out by the bank's problems he turned to the vice of lust to forget his troubles. Either way, I bet the shirt came off. ;)

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: About the shirt issue: (4.00 / 2)

Here's the (awful) shirt:

Gotta love that "junior". It sounds like office-intern-Monica stuff, but it's in fact a lady whose job was not in the upper reaches of the hierarchy. He took her to the Four Seasons in Washington and New York for, er, short getaways. I imagine the shirt came off.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: About the shirt issue: (none / 1)

Wait. Wasn't he in a Saturday Night Live skit?...

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:41:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't sack Musharafff (4.00 / 5)

I got sidetracked and forgot to post this in Salon, but it shows that we have't lost the habit of donning the "White Man's burden" and telling our dusky inferiors what's good for them. I guess it's worked so well up to now....

Independent - Don't sack Musharraf, US and UK warn election victors

The US and Britain are pressing Pervez Musharraf's victorious opponents to drop their demands that he resign as president and that the country's independent judiciary be restored before forming a government.
In a strategy some Western diplomats admit could badly backfire, the Bush administration has made clear it wishes to continue to support Mr Musharraf even after Monday's election in which the Pakistani public delivered a resounding rejection of his policies. "[The US] does not want some people pushed out because it would lead to instability. In this case that means Musharraf," said one Western diplomat

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:32:01 PM EST

Re: Don't sack Musharafff (4.00 / 2)

Spreading freedom and democracy.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't sack Musharafff (4.00 / 2)

... by winning hearts and minds.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:39:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't sack Musharafff (4.00 / 3)

But what patience it takes <sigh>. Those silly brown people keep voting for the wrong candidates.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Girls rule! (the Internets...).

Interesting story, actually.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 01:40:23 PM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Yea, pretty interesintg.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Girls rule!

Nothing new...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:04:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

The article says that enthusiasm for designing websites and 'glitters', etc, probably won't lead to more girls studying computer science at university. It occurs to me, though, that at least some the girls who build websites might want to pursue graphic design as a profession, since that is what they are already doing as a hobby.

by Gag Halfrunt on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

The connection between website graphic design and computer science is rather tenuous.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:17:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Linux is the proof.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Although I'd state it more generally to make it more applicable to my linux comment - graphic design / interface design has little to do with computer science.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:49:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

On the first point, more people will want to study computer science and engineering when those jobs start getting respect, stability, and livability anywhere close to that in business or finance.

On the second point, graphic design and web design/content creation are perfectly decent fields in and of themselves, and as you point out, are pretty much what they're already doing.

by Zwackus on Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 at 12:17:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

That's true in my house. Here's a link to estHer's and friends music site where they create and perform songs. estHer wrote "sucre roux" but they haven't put the words up yet. I need the written words to understand the French.

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:19:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

P.S. I see that the 'article tools' on the New York Times website are sponsored by Juno. Very appropriate, since that film has given the world the immortal (or not) phrase 'honest to blog'...

by Gag Halfrunt on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:26:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Random news roundup of things I've not seen mentioned here.

US embassy in Belgrade attacked

This apparently happening right now...

Obama Wins Democrats Abroad Primary

Shocked...

The Smurfs are back! Woo Hoo!

Lala lalalaa...

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:03:43 PM EST

Blowing own trumpet (4.00 / 2)

Obama Wins Democrats Abroad Primary
Shocked...

Then you should pay attention to NostraHelenus who predicted this all a year ago with Democrats Abroad : The Wind Cries Obama

It's heady stuff to see close up, but it is undeniable that the Force is with him. From what I saw last night, barring absolute disaster, I can't see him failing to win next year.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 0)

uhm, was being sarcastic.

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:12:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

Yea, it was a "well duh..." moment. But I was still pretty chuffed with myself for seeing it 11 months ago.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:17:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 0)

But I was still pretty chuffed with myself for seeing it 11 months ago.

Time to bust out the handy ...English-To-American Dictionary.

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

hee heee. I think the meaning has evolved slightly since I learnt it and the dictionary being compiled. The def they gave isn't quite how I use it.

To me, it has more of a sense of having done something pretty good, "quietly proud" I think is my off the cuff definition.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

My favorite English-to-American translation effort involves explaining the difference between "bollocks" and "dog's bollocks."

:-)

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:59:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

The dictionary makes a good stab at it. The beer they mention was originally brewed by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firkin_Brewery.

It was quite different to the current recipe, more like a strong thick Wadworths 6X than the rather thin amber-malt-heavy brew from Wychwood (which always tastes like Watneys Red Barrel to me).

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:06:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

whoops (none / 1)

Sorry, my a href statement seems to have gone awry. It was Bruce's Brewery.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

I think the dictionary entry is just wrong.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:00:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

I've never seen that dictionary before. Hours of fun realising how strange our language must seem to you. Trainspotting must have needed subtitles.

Of course, the reverse isn't true cos of Hollywood.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:02:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

I've used it occasionally. But pinch of salt necessary.

(Can't "chuffed" just be replaced by "pleased"?)

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:30:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

Can't "chuffed" just be replaced by "pleased"?

not really, no.

I predict a result in the American elections 11 months out when nobody else saw it coming. "Pleased" doesn't really cover it. More that I'm feeling a little smug, self-impressed and knowing I've been a smarty-pants. Attempted a difficult trick shot in pool down the pub and it came off..."played for"

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blowing own trumpet (none / 1)

perhaps you should invest in one of these

Complete toilet humour, but proof that drunkeness and invention arenot mutually exclusive.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 06:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Nothing new on Vickigate? I still don't quite follow what the hell the NYT was thinking with this story, although it does seem that St John was being economical with the truth in his morning presser.

Whether McCain or Keller, someone's going down here. Shots fired, the general election has officially begun.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

someone's going down here

I was just talking to poemless about Monicagate...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 03:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

I think the NYT was doing its usual conservative-appeasing please-don't-hate-us sitting on a good story until it was rendered harmless (FISA etc) then they could release it and go "oh that, we thought everybody knew".

But they got flushed out at just about the worst moment. It will be interesting to see how this plays cos it's got the potential to sink McCain at the perfect time to both prevent another challenger yet utterly destroy any hope of creating a distracting momentum. I see him having a hilarious slow-motion deflation, hopefully over several weeks. He could be the repugs only hope and complete toast at one and the same time.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

What is Vickygate?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lobbyist with - at least - (none / 1)

influence with McCain. She had been warned off by McCain staffers due to concerns about possible sexual connection.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:40:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain's been a dirty old man (4.00 / 2)

Welcome to the the unravelling of a Presidential campaign

A female lobbyist had been turning up with him at fund-raisers, in his offices and aboard a client's corporate jet. Convinced the relationship had become romantic, some of his top advisers intervened to protect the candidate from himself -- instructing staff members to block the woman's access, privately warning her away and repeatedly confronting him, several people involved in the campaign said on the condition of anonymity.
When news organizations reported that Mr. McCain had written letters to government regulators on behalf of the lobbyist's clients, the former campaign associates said, some aides feared for a time that attention would fall on her involvement.
Mr. McCain, 71, and the lobbyist, Vicki Iseman, 40, both say they never had a romantic relationship. But to his advisers, even the appearance of a close bond with a lobbyist whose clients often had business before the Senate committee Mr. McCain led threatened the story of redemption and rectitude that defined his political identity

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's been a dirty old man (none / 0)

Well, as we know, Caesar's wife should not only be honest but appear honest...

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:58:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's been a dirty old man (4.00 / 2)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I don't give a flying fuck who any presidential candidate was fucking eight years ago. I don't give a rat's ass if they were having an affair or chastely singing kumbaya around the campfire. I don't care about any candidate's sex life, period, whether he or she is a Republican or a Democrat, and I don't think it should be a campaign issue. (Unless the candidate has spent a lot of time moralizing about so-called family values or some such crap, in which case the hypocrisy should sink him....)

If she got special legislative or committee consideration because of him, that's different. But I'm not convinced that the Times has made a case for that.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 05:04:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's been a dirty old man (none / 0)

You know, I don't even want to have to think about the possibility that most of them can, have or ever did fuck anyone. Yuck.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 05:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's been a dirty old man (none / 1)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I don't give a flying fuck who any presidential candidate was fucking eight years ago.

Right. I didn't realize this was about the 2000 campaign!!!

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 05:14:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's been a dirty old man (none / 0)

Oh, and any adult would agree with you.

But we're talking about republicans here and that's why he's toast. There will be a period, hopefully achingly protracted, where the details will leak out of every moment of unfaithful trysting and sweating whilst McCain stands in the public glare sweating like the squealing stuck pig he is. All the while completely unable to stop the look in his party's eyes as they judge and find him wanting.

This republican primary was always about "None of the Above", we are now moving into "Wild Horses can't make me". And he will kill everybody downticket.

Stack the briars, tonight and for the next few months we will be roasting repignican, roasted Gop-hog. Die you filth, die.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 05:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain's been a dirty old man (none / 1)

Actually, quite the opposite: The Republicans seem to be kinda-sorta rallying around him under the "Evil Liberal Media" banner.

Now it all, of course, hinges on the question of whether or not it's true. (The Times had better have more than this, because its case has thus far been thin, at best. The Washington Post, however, seems to have gotten into greater detail on the influence-peddling and done the story in a way that is at least close to right.) And the real issue is obviously the influence peddling, not the possible sex. (Philandering is nothing new in McCainland.)

Stormy's right that nobody really cares about the sex (except the Christian Right). And nobody should care. McCain can snort coke with gay prostitutes for all I care. But if he was having an affair in exchange for special treatment of her clients, or if he was simply close to her and giving special treatment, it basically blows a hole in McCain's entire foundation as a presidential candidate. And there does seem to be evidence of special treatment, looking at the letters he wrote to the FCC on her behalf.

If the real story gets traction, he's in trouble. If the NYT has it right, he's dead, and Obama -- or, of course, Clinton (but that's becoming increasingly unlikely given the meltdown in her campaign) -- is going to blow the GOP away in November.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 08:33:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

Is it possible that somebody from McCains campaign was refreshing the rumor, so that McCain can defend himself against wrong accusations and is seen as victim, while turning on issues more to the Republican base under the radar?
So some kind of false flag operation?

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 06:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

From SPON

Just in case somebody gave McCain a similar advice.

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 06:38:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

US embassy in Belgrade attacked

Several hundred protesters have attacked and broken into the US embassy in the Serbian capital Belgrade, setting fire to part of it.
The embassy was closed and unprotected at the time. Reports say the Croatian and UK embassies were also attacked.
The violence follows a peaceful protest by at least 150,000 people outside the main parliament building against Kosovo's declaration of independence.

by Gag Halfrunt on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 02:43:48 PM EST

seeking advice (4.00 / 2)

Can anyone recommend a good bittorrent client for a Mac? I have finally decided to cave in and start downloading stuff. Too frustrated with my inability to watch anything worth watching here.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:04:28 PM EST

Re: seeking advice (4.00 / 2)

Miro seemed to work.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mac torrent client (none / 1)

I've had good luck with Tomato Torrent. Not a lot of bells and whistles, but it worked when I wanted to see the Christmas Doctor Who special on, well, Christmas.

by Magnifico on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 04:41:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Anybody see anything hypocritical in the presidential candidates saying that they want the Cubans to release political prisoners? We could do that unilaterally on one part of Cuban soil, couldn't we?

It will be better, but its still a long way from good.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson

by NearlyNormal on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 at 08:30:50 PM EST

Thursday Open Thread | 81 comments (81 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]