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Stop Blair! in more languages

by DoDo Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:13:01 PM EST

History of the genesis and development of our petition against the nomination of Tony Blair for President of the European Council:

15 of the EU's 23 official languages are ready (see links below the ET logo). Tomorrow, we will also have Loefing's Stop Blair logo up. We still need translations into these eight official languages of the EU:

  • Bulgarian,
  • Estonian,
  • Latvian,
  • Maltese,
  • Slovenian,
  • Finnish,
  • Czech,
  • Irish.

Any others welcome.


Display:
Created because the last thread grew unwieldy with 250+ comments.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:13:36 PM EST
People are missing all of the good work being done on translation. I saw one comment from a signatory complaining about the lack of other languages and one person has posted on the forum at Gopetition saying he will not sign due to the absence of French.

If people are reaching the petition site directly, they may not see the versions available on stopblair.eu. Ideally, a link to stopblair.eu and a statement about other languages should be present on the Gopetition site.

Even if they go to stopblair.eu, the title "Versions" on the flags may not be sufficient. Ideally, the site should identify the location of the visitor and select the default language appropriately. Failing that, be explicit: "Other languages".

by det on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 05:40:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yesterday, I watched the count crawl its way from 400 to 650.  This morning when I got up it had just topped 1000.  When I checked a few hours later, it had doubled, and now its almost at 2500.

This is a long way from a million, but its a pretty good start.

by IdiotSavant on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:32:40 PM EST
If you need 1 million valid European citizens, then using my very preliminary results you will need a minimum of

1,076,872 names - to cover bad names and people from outside Europe.

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:46:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This BBC story says we may have about 4 months to gather the signatures... A blog entry by Mark Mardell:
The role of president of the Council would start on 1 January 2009.

...

The trouble is that nothing of importance will be decided until after the Irish referendum, on a date yet to be announced, for fear of frightening the voters with potentially controversial decisions.

How much urgency is there? Nicolas Sarkozy would like all this settled at the beginning of the French presidency, in July.

Most regard this as unrealistic, and think that the decision will be taken around the time of the October summit.

Not if we can avoid it!
'Stop Blair' campaign

And there are formidable problems. Some will oppose him because of his enthusiasm for the Iraq war. Indeed there is already a website aimed at stopping him on these grounds.

Some will consider that he represents a country that has opted out of the euro, a common police and justice policy, a common immigration policy and will never be serious about Europe.



We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
his BBC story says we may have about 4 months to gather the signatures

Which will mean the current rate of signing will need to go up tenfold.  Alternatively, it just has to go geometric.

It's a really tough target.  But it will be a fascinating experiment to see whether a blog can successfuly organise this sort of pan-European campaign.

by IdiotSavant on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, we just need the total count to grow 40-fold over 120 days, which is not what I'd describe as "demanding": barely adding one signature for every 45 existing ones. Alternatively, an average rate of 9000 per day, which is not that hard either. We've added 1500 since this morning.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 08:04:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well hopefully the radio in the morning will give those numbers a boost.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 08:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
2500 at 2am GMT

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 09:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | The Reporters | Mark Mardell

'Stop Blair' campaign

And there are formidable problems. Some will oppose him because of his enthusiasm for the Iraq war. Indeed there is already a website aimed at stopping him on these grounds.

Some will consider that he represents a country that has opted out of the euro, a common police and justice policy, a common immigration policy and will never be serious about Europe.

The smaller countries think the big countries already have too many people at the top.

Britain has twice wielded the veto over big jobs and some would like to return the compliment. And so on. But perhaps the biggest hurdle is that old Brussels saw "front-runners never win".



Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 07:37:55 PM EST
Got a link on sp.nl without contacting them. Will write Mr. Marijnissen tomorrow...

We're all over the Belgian press, it seems. And getting a lot of Portuguese signatures, somehow.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 09:41:53 PM EST
The Portuguese signatures probably come from a major blogger, I found no news article with Google yesterday.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:16:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Belgian press: News agency "BELGA" had a flash yesterday late in the afternoon.
So from there it can be picked-up by any journalist in the world who has acces to this agency dispatches.

There are permanently about 600 journalists in Brussels from other countries.

The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)

by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 06:21:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We made it to Chile.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 09:47:17 PM EST
Noticed from the signatories, who include a loon who calls Bliar a "socialist", declares that they "know about the socialist" in Chile, and praises Sarko...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:45:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is an agency wire from Spain's EFE!!!!!

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:49:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you find a link closer to the EFE original?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:55:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not from my phone. Give me an hour or so.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:02:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EFE is subscription only for the most part, but this Ecuadorean story, also sourced from "EFE, Brussels" is the #1 hit for Blair on news.google.es: Recogen firmas en internet contra la candidatura de Blair a la presidencia UE - El Comercio

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:38:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing on ElPais.es, but searching for Blair I found a news story dating back to his appearance at the recent UMP convention in France, claiming that his recent hire by JP Morgan puts him out of the running. And there's this:
Gianfranco Fini apuesta por José María Aznar como futuro presidente de la UE · ELPAÍS.com Gianfranco Fini throws his lot behind José María Aznar as future President of the EU - ElPais.com
El ex ministro italiano de Exteriores y líder de la derechista Alianza Nacional, Gianfranco Fini, ha sugerido el nombre de José María Aznar como eventual candidato a la futura presidencia estable de la Unión Europea The former Italian foreign minister and leader of the rightist National Alliance, Gianfranco Fini, suggested the name of José María Aznar as a possible candidate for the future stable presidence of the EU.


We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:40:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just googled Stop Blair petition and found that the Telegraph has devoted a readers' corner and has amassed more than 300 comments; most comments unmistakeably Europhobe...

Tuesday, February 05, 2008 Would Tony Blair make a good EU president? Posted at: 17:18

Internet campaigners have launched a "Stop Blair" campaign to block any hopes the former prime minister may harbour of becoming president of the European president of the European Union later this year.

The website, http://www.stopblair.eu, went live today and its creators aim to collect one million signatures opposing Tony Blair's candidature for the job.

Jérôme Guillet, a Paris-based investment banker, explained that the idea for the campaign emerged from the pro-EU online bloggers community "European Tribune". "Tony Blair embodies many things we do not like," he said. "He is universally reviled."

Will you be signing the "Stop Blair" petition? Or would he be the right figurehead for the 27 member states? Is he the sort of president the EU deserves?

If Mr Blair isn't the man for the job, who is?

by The3rdColumn on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 10:08:16 PM EST
We noticed that yesterday, it was on their frontpage (unlike the longer article). We got a number of silly Eurosceptic signatories, some even just signed to throw abuse at us (now removed).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:48:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by redstar on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 10:43:22 PM EST
(Would you finish formatting the footnote links?)

Peticija prieš Tony Blair'o iškėlimą "Europos Sąjungos Prezidentu"

Mes, visų kilmių ir politinių pažiūrų Europos piliečiai, norime išreikšti savo visišką priešiškumą Tony Blair'o iškėlimui į Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininkavimą.

Lisabonos Sutartis numato naują Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininko postą, kuris yra Vadovų Tarybos renkamas dviejų su puse metų kadencijai, ir gali būti perrenkamas tik vieną kartą. Pagal Sutartį, "Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininkas pirmininkauja Europos Vadovų Tarybai ir vadovauja jos darbui" bei "užtikrina pasirengimą Europos Vadovų Tarybos darbui ir jo tęstinumą". Taip pat "Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininkas savo lygiu ir pagal savo pareigas užtikrina atstovavimą Sąjungai užsienyje bendros užsienio ir saugumo politikos klausimais".[1]

Būsimas Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininkas tad turės lemiamą įtaką sprendžiant Europos Sąjungos veiklos kryptis ir santykius su likusiu pasauliu. Pirmasis Vadovų Tarybos pirmininkavimas taps svariu simboliu tiek Europos Sąjungos piliečiams, tiek Sąjungos įvaizdžiui likusiam pasauliui. Šiuo atžvilgiu mes manome, kad pirmasis pirmininkas turi esmingai išreikšti Europos sumanymo dvasią ir vertybes.

Jau kurį laiką vis labiau primygtini žiniasklaidos pranešimai akivaizdžiai perteikia kai kurių sluoksnių norą, kad Tony Blair'as būtų paskirtas pirmuoju Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininku. Toks paskyrimas, jei įvyktų, visiškai prieštarautų Europos sumanymo pripažintoms vertybėms.

Pažeisdamas tarptautinius įstatymus, Tony Blair'as įtraukė savo šalį į Irako karą, kuriam prieštaravo Europos piliečių didžioji dauguma. Šis karas pareikalavo šimtus tūkstančius aukų ir privertė persikelti milijonus pabėgėlių. Jis tapo pagrindiniu veiksniu šiandienos kraštutiniam nestabilumui Artimuosiuose Rytuose, ir susilpnino pasaulio saugumą. Kad įtaukti savo šalį į karą, ponas Blair'as sistematiškai naudojo suklastotus parodymus ir iškreiptą informaciją. Jo vaidmuo Irako kare svariai paveiktų Sąjungos įvaizdį pasaulyje, jei jis taptų Pirmininku.

Tony Blair'o vyriausybės žingsniai ir prisidėjimas prie Bush'o administracijos neteisėtos "ypatingų perdavimų" programos privedė prie nematyto pilietinių teisių smukimo. Tai prieštarauja Europos Žmogaus Teisių Konvencijai, kuri yra neatskiriama sutarties dalis.

Europos Sąjungos Pagrindinių Teisių Chartija įformina pagrindines Europos projekto vertybes, ir yra viena iš naujosios sutarties atramų. Tony Blair'as priešinosi jos įtraukimui į Lisabonos sutartį, ir galų gale jam pavyko užtikrinti išimtį Jungtinei Karalystei.

Vietoj to, kad prisidėti prie Europos integracijos pažangos, buvęs Britų ministras pirmininkas nustatė taip vadinamas raudonas linijas Lisabonos derybose[2], su ketinimu blokuoti bet kokią pažangą visuomeniniais klausimais ar mokesčių harmonizavimui, taip pat bendro saugumo ir užsienio politikos srityse.

Be to, sunkiai įsivaizduojama, kad pirmuoju Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininku turėtų būti vyriausybės, kuri sulaikė savo šalį prisijungti prie dviejų lemiamų Europos statymo grandžių - Šengeno laisvo žmonių judėjimo erdvės ir Euro zonos, buvęs vadovas.

Šiuo metu, kai vienas iš Europos institucijų prioritetų yra susisieti su jos piliečiais, mes manome, kad Europos Vadovų Tarybos Pirmininku turėtų asmuo, su kuriuo daugelis piliečių galėtų susitapatinti, o ne atstumiama daugumai asmenybė[3]. Todėl mes pareiškiame savo visišką priešiškumą šiai kandidatūrai.

  1.  Lisabonos Sutartis, 1 straipsnis, 16 punktas, įrašomas 9b straipsnis į Europos Sąjungos sutartį, 5 ir 6 punktai (2007/C 306/17, 18) ↑
   2. "Blair sets out EU treaty demands", BBC, 2007 Birželis↑
   3. Lentelė 6 FT/Harris apklausoje, 2007 Birželis ↑

by das monde on Wed Feb 6th, 2008 at 10:47:34 PM EST
I know you are quite busy, and probably asleep, but do you have the time to follow my instructions, and if not, to translate the non-petition text on stopblair.eu ?

Or any other lithuanian speaker...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:59:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok, I sent it to you...
by das monde on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:24:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks das monde, Stabdom Blair'ą! is up. Thanks for following the instructions !

10 EU official languages to go !

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:31:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Diary & links below logo updated accordingly.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:27:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Haltigu Blair ! is up too, if not yet linked from the other pages. That'll have to wait for a bit of redesigning, which will include Loefing's logo, and possibly signature count.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:50:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(that's esperanto)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:51:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not sure how strategically wise it was to emphasise Blair's anti-integration policies so strongly in the end of the text as a reason to oppose his presidency.

Sure, one should not be ashamed of one's beliefs. But the goal here is more limited, namely, to stop Blair becoming the first EU president. This requires the maximum amount of signatures, and citing his anti-integration policies does NOT contribute to that goal. Those who care about integration will sign anyway. Many of those who hate Blair for Iraq, his sleaziness or any other of the many reason may actually not sign it because of

by Almanax on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 12:56:19 AM EST
...because of it.
by Almanax on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 12:57:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, most of our first thousand signatories came via the Torygraph and the FT, and were obvious Eurosceptics. Personally, I wouln't mind if we'd only collect pro-European signatories, Eurosceptics could start their own campaign...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:50:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Moreover, citing the anti-integrationist policies as a reason to oppose Blair contradicts the very pitch of the first paragraph...

"We, European citizens of all origins and of all political persuasions,..."

...by effectively forcing everyone who signs the petition to sign up to a pro-integrationist approach to Europe.

I personally agree with a pro-integrationist approach per se. I only want to raise questions about its use in this campaign because I believe the (potential) primal force behind a successful anti-Blair campaign are his lies and war-mongering. This is, I believe, the most common reason for Europeans' dislike and rejection of Blair. The integrationist criticism distracts from that and may work against the goal of getting the maximum number of signatures.

by Almanax on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:05:46 AM EST
I believe you are informed by the fact of Euroscepticism being strong in your country. However, checking the comments of the Belgian and Portuguese signatories, it seems the integration issue is just as strong if not stronger an issue for people in those countries. Also, see my soon to be posted proposal.

On a further note, technically, "all political persuasions" would alos include pro-war, and pro-Bliar positions :-)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:55:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed.

Maybe "accross the political spectrum" would be better.

by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:35:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In any case, major props for setting this website up. Thanks a lot. I hope I will find a way to contribute beyond just my signature.
by Almanax on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:06:38 AM EST
Put up the following comment (unfortunately twice) to the dismissive Economist blog post:

We take it as backhanded compliment that The Economist creates publicity for our campaign. Tnanks!
Regarding your competition, we "leftish bloggers" (whatever that means nowadays -- wouldn't "leftish" describe the former Labour leader?) submit that Habeas Corpus has been little heeded in the past when colonial powers tried to imprint terror in restive natives, or when War on Terror was fought in North Ireland, but to go on and abolish it after 325 years seems rather more spectacular.

Over the top? Just fine?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:15:01 AM EST
Delighted that The Economist has taken notice of us and lent us their "mantle of respectability."

That said they are trying desperately to minimise the effect by making some claim that we are a group of leftish bloggers, known collectively as European Tribune. (My first reaction was to say So frigging what?)

I had always thought of The Economist as a serious player in the journalistic world and not given to unsubstantiated reporting. I certainly do not see myself as leftish but consider myself as rightish albeit progressive. Being rightish doesn't mean that I have to agree with Mr Blair's decision to obey Mr Bush's command on Iraq or to like Mr Blair's lapping it up to right-wing Bush and to US neo-cons.

by The3rdColumn on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:27:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am very late to this (and totally blown away by the effort and results already), so others probably have already mentioned these ideas.  But here are a couple of simple suggestions on how to increase awareness of the petition.

  • Email signature: Make "Join the effort to block Tony Blair's nomination to the EU presidency -- http://stopblair.eu/ ", or something like that, your email signature.

  • If you are on FaceBook, join the group "I do not want to see Tony Blair APPOINTED as the President of the EU": when you join a group, that is announced to all of your friends, who in turn may decide to join the group.  The FT article "The Blair project gains momentum" and the petition itself are already visible there as "Posted Items", and a request to sign the petition is one of the "Discussion Board" topics (albeit with no activity).  Only 151 members so far, though.

  • Set your chat application status to " http://stopblair.eu/ ".  If you use Google Talk, you can set your chat application status to a custom message, visible to all other users.  I don't think custom statuses are possible with Skype; have no idea for other applications.  But if you use Google Talk, just put in that URL: it acts as a link, and it does not have any effect on what your actual status is (e.g. "Available", "Busy", etc.)


Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:17:30 AM EST
>> I do not want to see Tony Blair APPOINTED as the
>> President of the EU"

Sorry for the nitpicking: but wouldn't it be better to pick a shorter, more concise group name such as "Stop Blair!"

Also, the "appointed" (especially its emphasis) unnecessarily feeds a negative narrative of the EU as an undemocratic institution, rather than channelling all rage at Blair.

by Almanax on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:42:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We didn't create the Facebook group, I think they possibly pre-dated us.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:00:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Given that it is still so small (& I couldn't even find it in the group search when putting in "Blair"), do you think it would make sense to open up a dedicated group called "Stop Blair!" which also features the petition website-url prominently and gives a contact-email linked up with the Eurotrib team?

Actually, I had just done so 10 minutes ago, but then I deleted the group again when I saw the above post and assumed this was part of a coordinated effort.

by Almanax on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:06:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm fine with you doing this!

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:59:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think In Wales offered to do this.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:32:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Forgot...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry everyone, I've been delivering training all day - only just home.

Has anyone set up the Stop Blair facebook group or shall I organise that?  I may have to ask a friend to set it up for me if so, since my name as creator of the group could get me into trouble.

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My daughter, who just turned 18, just signed the petition said it would be good if we could come up with stickers and pins: STOP BLAIR! petition address.

I think this is a good idea.

She's already spread the word to her schoolmates and friends.

by The3rdColumn on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:03:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As soon as we have a logo, we should certainly think about how we can show it around, online (badge with link to easily embed etc.) and offline (think cafepress).

BTW, the shape of the logo could be an octagon (get it?).

/STOP

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:05:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was thinking more Hexagon, non?
by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:15:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That one is only for the french ! :-)

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't we a majority here?
by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:27:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you've proven that you really can't count.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:33:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now, now...
by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:37:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ebay man, ebay.

That might even raise money. Please please let's copyright the image quickly, I could even get it professionally designed here...

Not sure if this would work in Europe, but in the US people make a killing with magnets as well, for cars, frigos, whatever else they'll stick to...

by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:17:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The possibility of finding ourselves in a legal battle over such merchandising has been raised in private e-mails...

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps this has been dealt with, but just in case:

Why not put a prominent message on the http://www.stopblair.eu website requesting that visitors/signatories alert family and friends to the existence of the petition. It may be bloody obvious and hopefully they are doing it anyway, but it seldom hurts to state the bloody obvious.

by det on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 09:10:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome on BBC4 now, listen online

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:53:24 AM EST
I have a General Error... transscript/summary/mp3?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:58:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that was short.

Jerome had two or three sentences, I'm think he didn't get the URL on, and then McShane defended him. Then the BBC commentators/debaters commented ; one was not in support, saying Blair had been too divisive ; a Tory one didn't support a Labour candidates ; and most claimed that the position had no power.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:01:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They did not let me speak much because Malcolm Rifkind, the former Tory senior minister, unexpectedly came to their studio, so they let him speak and hash it out with McShane. It wa Rifkind who argued against Blair, using several good arguments (divisive, not up to his words on Europe).

I never got a chance to jump back in, but I' still in the studio to speak on the World Today on the World Service...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:12:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We do seem to be getting more "leftish" UK signatures right now, maybe thanks to this.

You are in their parisian studio ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:19:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Around what time would you speak ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:23:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Blair and Brown hold EU job talks

Labour MP and former Europe minister Denis MacShane told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "I think he [Mr Blair] has been one of the biggest national leaders Europe has had in the last generation."

He added: "If he wants the job... from a British point of view it's always good to have a Brit in a top job."

An online petition against Mr Blair becoming president, organised by the European Tribune group, has attracted more than 2,900 petitions.

Sir Malcolm, foreign secretary from 1995 to 1997, said: "By his own standards, his [Mr Blair's] whole strategy on Europe failed miserably.

"He wants to be leader of Europe, but he was more responsible than anybody for dividing Europe over the Iraq war.

"He failed to get Britain into the single currency, I'm delighted to say, but he didn't even dare have a referendum...

"He didn't even ask the British public. He just dropped the idea. I would be astonished if the rest of Europe sees him as their natural spokesman."

'No doubt'

The leader of France's Socialist Party, Francois Hollande, said: "He has eminent qualities. He has had successes in his own country.

"But the position he took during the intervention in Iraq means that there is no doubt in my view that he cannot be the one to be the coming president of Europe."



Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 06:56:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1. An addition to the text

Signatory #34, Simon Pride from the USA, commented:

The EU was formed to prevent war. Blair launched an unprovoked and unjustifiable war against another country and is therefore unworthy of European Union recognition.

I thought long and hard about this, and I think the first sentence is so important and fitting into the logic of our text that it warrants after-the-fact addition to the Petition, in all languages. I'd put that sentence into the third paragraph:

The European Union was formed to prevent war. However, in violation of international law, Tony Blair committed his country to a war in Iraq...

2. Translator alert

If the site is to be developed further (above all, if we move the petition signing to a dedicated site), the other language versions need quick update, too. So would it be fair to ask all the translators to mail linca, so that he has an email list when push comes to shove?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:18:51 AM EST
Good ideas, although I'm not that sure changing the petition after signings is a ethical for the signers...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:22:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's one thing I thought about, but in the end, those who'd object have already ignored other Europhile content in the text, including the "red lines", on which they would rather blame Bliar of reneging on.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:26:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the principle of making changes to the text calls for more discussion, perhaps when Melanchthon is back online?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:48:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With more discussion, you mean a separate diary? (I opened a top-level comment for discussion.) Obviously a lot of people have to agree, including the principal author.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:25:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think we could add a box under the main petition with significant comments, calling it something like - I don't know - 'Significant comments.'

It wouldn't change the main text, but it would add new insights. And I think the insight from that commenter is certainly important enough to be worth some space.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I disagree on principle with changing the text once signed.

However, we can add a "highlights from the comments".

A FAQ including especially an answer to "I am not a European citizen, can I still sign?" would also be a good thing.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:43:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We have changed the other language versions, including a whole sentence in the Greek version.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 04:47:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I disagree with making major changes to a text once people have signed up.

Mig's suggestions sound right to me.

My point about further discussion was that Melanchthon is offline till tonight or tomorrow, and that we should perhaps wait for him before fully discussing this, whether here or in another diary (I wasn't suggesting a diary specific to this theme...)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 05:21:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Technically that was a correction not a change, since it was a partial sentence which wouldn't have made sense without the correction. Adding things however... I'm not too hot on that...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:09:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agree with all three points.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:41:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would also like, to use a turn of phrase from our own document, to register my total opposition to a post-publication change in the wording. First of all, it would be highly unethical to change the content of the petition in any way that goes above correcting minor translation and grammatical errors. Second, that kind of 'running update' would look thoroughly unprofessional. Third, such revisions would provide ready-made ammunition for those who wish to dismiss the petition. It is, in other words, A Bad Idea.

I think, however, that Migeru's idea of highlighting interesting, informative and/or well-thought-out comments in a separate section.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:47:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I finally managed to get a connection for a few minutes.

I totally second Jake's position. I oppose any change after people have started to sign, even minor ones (except to correct orthographic or grammatical errors).

I agree with Migeru idea to make a separate section "excerpts from the comments", including our comments!

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 01:27:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With such unanimous rejection, consider my proposal 1) abandoned, as fond I am of it still. But what about the second?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:11:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
2) looks uncontroversial. I'm certainly game. The e-mail in my profile works, so if someone pokes me when there's an update, I'll get cracking ASAP.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:24:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Simon Pride is right... that was the dogma behind the founding of the EU, never again war between nations of Europe.
by The3rdColumn on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 09:56:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I tried to post the following comment at Mark Mardell's BBC blog:

I disagree with Mr. Mardell that the President of the European Council shall be "Mr or Mrs Europe". That would give too much importance to the already too powerful Council against the other two EU institutions. The Council is like an upper house (though more like the German Federal Council [Bundesrat] rather than the aristocratic Lords), and the EU just wanted to move into a more democratic direction by increasing the Parliament's powers and the Commission's accountability.

I also think that for the Council Presidency, only the former leader of a smaller EU member can be in question. That bars Merkel or Prodi even if they have the negotiating skills. But I may welcome former heads of major EU countries (if qualified, unlike Blair, or Aznar or Berlusconi) as European Commission Presidents.

I am also wondering about your description of Juncker. He may be little-known in a Britain where discourse on Europe is dominated by Eurosceptic private media, but he is certainly well recognised elsewhere as skillful negotiator, a main mover behind the formation of the European Union and the adoption of the Euro, he reassures us in the smaller EU members, and he is a good pro-European speaker (and I say all this as someone not too close to him on the left-right spectrum).

...but I am constantly timed out.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:23:10 AM EST
We got an AFP communiqué :

Le Monde.fr : "Stopblair.eu": une pétition contre Tony Blair comme président de l'UE

Tony Blair président de l'UE? Le débat a à peine commencé qu'une pétition pour tuer dans l'oeuf cette possibilité est déjà sur internet, sur le site "www.stopblair.eu".

Le nouveau traité de Lisbonne instaure un président du Conseil européen (qui rassemble les dirigeants européens) désigné pour deux ans et demi et qui devra représenter l'UE sur la scène mondiale.

Ce futur président devrait être choisi fin 2008 par les chefs d'Etat et de gouvernement des 27. Les spéculations sur le nom du futur président ont déjà commencé, alimentées par les déclarations du président français Nicolas Sarkozy favorables à Tony Blair.

"Depuis quelques semaines, on voit émerger des soutiens à une candidature de Tony Blair (...) Ca semble devenir sérieux alors nous avons décidé de nous exprimer contre", a expliqué à l'AFP Jérôme Guillet, un des initiateurs de la pétition qui se disent politiquement "plutôt de gauche" et animent un blog citoyen sur les questions européennes, European Tribune.

Great, Jerome !

Hoping this will get picked up by some French newspapers...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 05:33:45 AM EST
Also in English, on Yahoo News:

On-line campaigners seek to "Stop Blair" becoming EU president

An on-line campaign to stop former prime minister Tony Blair from becoming European Union president is gathering pace long before the job is even created.

Once the EU's Lisbon treaty is fully ratified next year, the prestigious post is to replace the EU's current presidency system which involves member states taking six-months turns at the job.

"We have been seeing support for a Blair candidacy... It seems to be getting serious so we have decided to express our opposition," said Jerome Guillet, one of the stopblair.eu organisers who have set up an on-line petition.

The campaign appears to be gathering speed, with over 3,000 "signatures" by Thursday morning, almost the double the number on Tuesday evening.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 09:22:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Italian: La Stampa!

"Stop Blair for president":
la petizione corre sul web

 Tony Blair presidente dell'Unione Europea? No grazie. E' il messaggio di una petizione lanciata su Internet contro la candidatura dell'ex premier britannico alla presidenza stabile dell'Unione europea, una carica introdotta dal nuovo Trattato di Lisbona, che dovrebbe entrare in vigore a partire dal 1 gennaio 2009. 

Nel testo disponibile sul web in nove lingue europee, i partecipanti ritengono Blair il candidato meno opportuno alla guida dei Ventisette, perchè in «totale contrasto con i valori professati nel progetto europeo». 

Non mancano le accuse. Il dispiegamento di militari inglesi nella guerra in Iraq, un conflitto «osteggiato dalla stragrande maggioranza dei cittadini europei» e la complicità con l'amministrazione Bush al programma dei voli segreti della Cia in Europa e delle «Extraordinary renditions», sono solo alcune delle incriminazioni rivolte all'ex premier britannico. Senza contare, fanno notare i partecipanti, che sarebbe «insensato» nominare a capo dell'Ue un presidente che ha posto ferma opposizione alla Carta dei diritti fondamentali contenuta nel nuovo Trattato di Lisbona, ed è stato leader di un Paese che non è entrato nella zona Shengen e non ha adottato l'euro. 

Le mosse di Blair, lamentano i 2.800 cittadini europei che ad ora hanno firmato la petizione, non solo hanno portato ad un declino senza precenti delle libertà e dei diritti civili, ma sono anche «palesemente in contrasto con le norme della Convenzione europea dei diritti dell'uomo». Tra i tanti nomi vociferati a Bruxelles, quello dell'ex premier britannico è uno dei più citati tra i possibili candidati al nuovo incarico, al quale lui stesso ha recentemente ammesso di essere interessato.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 09:26:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Czech: the Czech Economic Daily

Začala internetová kampaň Zastavte Blaira

HN, ze zahraničí
Londýn, 7. 2. 2008

Skupina politických odpůrců bývalého britského ministerského předsedy Tonyho Blaira především z francouzské levice zahájila internetovou kampaň proti jeho možné kandidatuře na předsedu Evropské rady neboli vrcholných schůzek Evropské unie. Blair sám o této kandidatuře vážně uvažuje a podle britského tisku měl minulý víkend na toto téma strategickou poradu se svými spolupracovníky.

...

Proti Blairově kandidatuře se ovšem zdvíhá znatelný odpor. Pařížský bankéř Jerome Guillet, který stojí za peticí Zastavte Blaira na stránkách http://www.stopblair.eu, řekl, že šlo o spontánní reakci lidí, kteří si Blaira nepřejí právě pro jeho blízkost s Bushem a jeho roli ve válce v Iráku. Cílem petice, která existuje v devíti jazykových verzích, je získat co nejdříve milion podpisů.



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 09:28:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oops, didn't see this first before posting below...
by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:34:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lots of Croatian reports as well, apparently, every national news agency takes it from AFP. This paper even made its own graphics:

vecernji.hr

Stranica www.stopblair.eu protiv Blaira na čelu EU

Tek što je počela rasprava o tome može li Tony Blair postati predsjednik EU, na internetskoj stranici www.stopblair.eu pojavila se peticija kojoj je cilj u samom začetku spriječiti tu mogućnost.

Novim Lisabonskim ugovorom uvodi se dužnost predsjednika Europskog vijeća uz dvoipolgodišnji mandat, koji će EU predstavljati na međunarodnoj pozornici.

Budućeg predsjednika krajem 2008. trebaju izabrati predsjednici država i vlada 27 zemalja. Špekulacije o imenu budućeg predsjednika već su počele, a potaknule su ih izjave francuskog predsjednika Nicolasa Sarkozyja kojima je pokazao sklonost Blairu.

U peticiji se upozorava da je Tony Blair "kršeći međunarodno pravo" uvukao svoju zemlju u irački rat "kojemu se usprotivila golema većina europskih građana".

Organizatori peticije, koju je do četvrtka ujutro potpisalo tri tisuće ljudi, žele prikupiti "simboličan broj od milijun potpisa", rekao je Jerome Guillet, jedan od pokretača akcije.

(Hina)



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 09:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmm, the choice of a picture with a rememberance-day poppy and the arm raised in that way is very unfortunate from a British perspective.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In addition to the BBC blog entry Migeru links to above, the petition is also mentioned in this BBC story, and there's a link to ET (but not the petition) on the right-hand sidebar.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:00:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are 3965 signatures now, and they're coming in fast.  I think we'll clear 4000 within the next 20 minutes or so.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Four thousand signatures now.  That was even faster than I expected.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:20:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
with AFP picking up the news, there's a good chance it will be in French newspapers and on radio.
by The3rdColumn on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:43:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I mentioned yesterday we had line in Wikipedia, but I found it's been edited out on these grounds:

From the revision history
7 February 2008 JLogan (Talk | contribs) m (18,372 bytes) (is this really notable? there are petitions on the internet about everything. Would only be notable if it got into the media for its size or if it was supported by leading figures)

I think got into the media is arguable, but supported by leading figures is silly or disingenuous. But hey, it's a wiki. We can try and improve it. (Not surprisingly, this reminds me of work on peer-reviewed articles to address the reviewers' concerns.)

You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.

by Vagulus on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 05:49:14 AM EST
Well, as I said last night, as a (formerly active) wikipedian, the wikipedia mention is borderline. It is an anonymous edit. If it turned out to have been added by one of us, it could be construed as an attempt to use wikipedia to raise the prominence of the petition. In fact, I added a link to wikipedia in the "they talk about us" section. This kind of use of wikipedia for self-rpomotion is a violation of wikipedia policy.

The original Wiki entry linked to the petition only. If it had linked to the Financial Times (now also to the AFP note) then it would have had more credibility.

I might add the edit myself but I don't want to because I'm involved with the petition. I might add a note in the talk page.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 06:22:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We are getting many hits from search on "petition tony blair" or "european tribune" ; which means, possibly, that people are getting aware of the petition happening...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 06:59:05 AM EST
I might be able to organise a Bulgarian version next week when I'm over there.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:48:56 AM EST
Do we want or still need a Russian version? I think I could get it from somebody at the weekend, but would need to know soon.

/the more the merrier

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:59:05 AM EST
I think we should have one.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:11:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The more the merrier. Though I hope ET's own Russians will come forward.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:12:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll ask her now and report back when I get an answer.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:41:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How do you find out what number you are without ploughing all the way through ? I searched on my name, but it didn't show

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:10:43 AM EST
I remember seeing you on one of the earliest couple of pages (which are now the pages with the highest numbers).  Try clicking on the thing that looks like this at the bottom  of the page:  >|

That should take you to the last page, and you can go backwards from there.  Shouldn't be more than a page or two in.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:14:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can directly change the page by changing the URL. For example, this is page 100.

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/stopblair/signatures-page100.html

Just change the page number at the end.

aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:29:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you're right

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:30:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:44:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a last name search function, if you look thoroughly... (on the top left)

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:24:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but it doesn't show the number you are in the list.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:29:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Click on "link"?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:54:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
check it out.

Basque is an official regional language, maybe they'd be interested in translating!

by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:29:31 AM EST
ET user kukute might translate it for us...

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 02:50:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The blogger responsible for it offered to send me a translation - no guarantee it will be fast, though.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 06:17:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The business press, no less.
by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 10:32:04 AM EST
picked it up from AFP. No linky though.
by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:31:38 AM EST
Bolivia...
by redstar on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 11:36:32 AM EST
That's the EFE release (see this google search: also Chile, Ecuador, Bolivia). It's run in the Spanish paper La Vanguardia, which is apparently the fourth of Spain by circulation, but in the science and technology section.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 12:14:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So I guess they found the design revolutionary, and the html coding innovative ? nice !

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 12:17:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More likely, the scitech section has more people who take the internet seriously (and spends time on it). Oh, and it's probably easier to sneak something under any ideological radars in the scitech section than in a genuine political section.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 12:30:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just got this petition in my inbox:
Hi,

I just signed an important global letter to the US Presidential candidates. The outcome of the next US election will greatly affect the world and I thought you might want to sign this letter too. Heres the link:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/us_change_course/98.php?cl_tf_sign=1

[outtake from/summary of text of petition]

I think this is a great idea on an important issue, and I hope you'll join me by signing up!

Thanks!


This is a pretty standard form of dissemination, but it is well done on the site:
Import automatically from my personal address book. Select this option to load contacts from your Gmail, Yahoo!, Hotmail, or AOL email account.

[More Friends]

Manually enter email addresses of people I know. Select this option to fill in email addresses manually.

Email [field]
Email [field][Remove Friend]
Email [field][Remove Friend]
[Add Friend]   [Remove All Friends]

[send]

Since we like our references: wikipedia.

AVAAZ.org is an international civic organization that promotes political action on issues such as climate change, human rights, and religious conflicts.[1] Its stated mission is to "ensure that the views and values of the world's people inform global decision-making." The organization operates in thirteen languages, and claims more than one million members from every country in the world.[2]

Avaaz, which means "voice" or "song" in Hindi, Dari, Persian, and other languages, is managed by a team of campaigners working from Switzerland, Brazil, the United States, France, and the United Kingdom. They communicate with members via email, and employ campaigning tactics including online public petitions, videos, and email-your-leader tools.

At the 2007 G8 conference, Avaaz.org protested against the "U.S. administration (for its) 'wrecking tactics' and failure to agree to specific, binding global goals" when it came to the mitigation of global warming. At the event, Avaaz.org presented a petition signed by 355,000 people from 193 countries that supported its position. [3] Avaaz is also a co-organizer of the Global Day of Action for Burma along with Burma Campaign UK and Amnesty International. It has registered more than 750,000 signatures to a petition to the Chinese President Hu Jintao and the UN Security Council, urging them to "oppose a violent crackdown on the demonstrators" and "support genuine reconciliation and democracy".[4] Avaaz delivered this petition to UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown on October 15, 2007.[5] The Avaaz video Stop the Clash of Civilizations, created with Agit-Pop Productions, is the all-time second most discussed video in the YouTube "News and Politics" section.[6][7]

AVAAZ.org was co-founded by Res Publica, a global civic advocacy group and non-profit organization, and MoveOn, an online community that has pioneered internet advocacy in the United States. The organization is also supported by Service Employees International Union, a founding partner, and GetUp.org.au.

Oh and you should of course sign the petition.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 12:39:06 PM EST
i've been getting avaaz newsletters for a few months, since the burma crackdown, and it feels like a really good social use of the internet.

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Note that entry 149 in the list appears to be a joke and should probably be removed:

"149 Mr Gordon Brown UK N/G Feb 05, 2008"

by Almanax on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:14:31 PM EST
check the email adress, could be real ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 03:39:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The e-mail address is correct. Gordon Brown is probably quite common.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is #5796 the editor of The Diplomat, or is it a name clash?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:35:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
#5119 Yasir Arafat?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well there is more than one

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:53:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about #5845 Tony Blair?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:55:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well there's 5 on the electoral roll, not including the well known one.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
checked somewhere else and there are actually 59. probably pretty pissed off at the grief they get when they mention their name.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:06:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Comment No. 5877 by a Dr P Gill UK Feb 07, 2008 rates ZERO in my book...
by The3rdColumn on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 09:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Logo - is Margouillat working on this? If not, I can do one. We don't need to worry about copyright if we can find something in the public domain.

Press release - we need one to fill that slot at the bottom. I can put something together quickly tomorrow and then send it around for comment.

Press/PR email - it would be very helpful to have a press@eurotrib.com email set up, even if it's just an alias and goes to the usual address.

Geometric growth - we don't have a pitch saying 'And tell your family and friends.' It could be helpful to have a shortened version of the main text to download to send around as a viral email, leading back to the petition. Even with the PR, I'd be surprised if the petition site on its own gathered enough interest to break 1M. (It might, but some alternatives wouldn't hurt.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 07:52:24 PM EST
well as a rule of thumb, appearences in the press are effective for about three days, so we need to hit the press again in about two days. having been on the main BBC late evening news, it might be easier to get traction in other media tomorrow.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:00:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have an idea for other media - could be interesting, but could also be labour intensive.

There's no reason to limit this to a conventional MSM campaign. Other media forms can help too.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:04:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If it's an email, let me look at it first to check it's compliant with spam filters

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 7th, 2008 at 08:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think all emails in the form xxxx@eurotrib.com come to me. etg@eurotrib.com certainly works. press@eurotrib.com does too.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 06:37:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Er... No ! I had the idea that it was already done (blue with stars across)...
If there are more ideas or work on the graphic part I can give a helping hand but on saturday as I have a dead line for today late !!!

"What can I do, What can I write, Against the fall of Night". A.E. Housman
by margouillat (hemidactylus(dot)frenatus(at)wanadoo(dot)fr) on Fri Feb 8th, 2008 at 08:33:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Stopnite Blaira! is now up ! Thanks to the translator !

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 08:04:44 AM EST
this is my definitve catalan version.. I eencourage people to pass it.. to see if there is any mistake...

any comment here before it is oficially posted...

ATUREM BLAIR

Petició contra la nominació de Tony Blair com a "President de la Unió Europea".

Nosaltres, ciutadans europeus de diferents orígens i tendències polítiques, volem expressar la nostra total oposició a la nominació de Tony Blair a la presidència del Consell Europeu.

El Tractat de Lisboa crea la nova figura de President del Consell Europeu, càrrec escollit pel Consell per un mandat de dos anys i mig, renovable només una vegada. Sota els termes del Tractat: "El President de Consell Europeu encapçalarà les seves discussions i dirigirà els seus treballs" i "assumira les preparacions i lacontinuïtat del treball del Consell Europeu". A més a més, "El President del Consell Europeu assumirà, en el seu càrrec i condició, la representació exterior de la Unió en temes relacionats amb la política exterior i la seguretat comuna".

El futur President del Consell Europeu, tindrà, per tant, un paper clau en la determinació de les polítiques de la Unió Europea i les seves relacions amb la resta del món. Aquesta primera presidència del Consell també tindrà un gran caire simbòlic tan pels ciutadans de la Unió europea com per la imatge de la Unió en la resta del món.

Davant aquestes consideracions, creiem que és essencial que el primer president representi l'esperit i els valors del projecte Europeu.

D'un temps ençà, s'han incrementat les informacions que fan evident un desig per part d'alguns sectors d'escollir Tony Blair com el primer President del Consell Europeu. Si aquest fos el cas, la seva selecció aniria en contra de tots els valors que professa el projecte Europeu.

Violant la llei internacional, Tony Blair va involucrar el seu país en una guerra a l'Iraq que la gran majoria de ciutadans europeus va rebutjar. Aquesta guerra ha generat centenars de milers de víctimes i desplaçat milions de refugiats. Ha estat un factor principal en l'ara profunda inestabilitat de l'Orient Mitjà, a més de debilitar la seguretat mundial. Per tal de guiar el seu país a la guerra, el Sr. Blair va fer un ús sistemàtic de proves falses i de manipulació informativa. Si arriba a ser President, el seu paper en la guerra d'Iraq marcarà negativament la imatge de la Unió en el món.

Els passos presos pel govern de Tony Blair, i la seva complicitat amb l'administració Bush, en el programa il·legal de "rendicions extraordinàries" han portat a una forta reducció de les llibertats civils. Això està en forta contradicció amb l'establert a la Convenció Europea de Drets Humans, que és una part integral del tractat.

La Carta Europea de Drets Fonamentals formalitza els valors fundacionals del projecte Europeu i és un dels pilars del nou tractat. Tony Blair va lluitar en contra de la seva inclusió en el Tractat de Lisboa, i finalment va aconseguir una exempció pel Regne Unit.

Enlloc d'impulsar la integració europea, l'antic Primer Ministre Britànic va fixar una sèrie d'anomenades "línies vermelles" durant les negociacions del tractat de Lisboa amb l'intent de bloquejar qualsevol progrés en temes socials, d'harmonització fiscal o de política exterior i de seguretat comuna.

A més a més, sembla poc imaginable que el primer President del Consell Europeu sigui l'antic cap d'un govern que va mantenir el seu país fora de dos dels elements claus en la construcció Europea: l'àrea Shengen de lliure moviment de persones i la zona Euro.

En un moment en què una de les prioritats de les institucions europees és connectar amb els ciutadans, creiem fonamental que el President del Consell Europeu sigui una persona amb la qual la gran majoria de ciutadans es puguin identificar, i no pas una persona rebutjada per la majoria de la població. Per tant, declarem la nostra oposició frontal a la seva nominació.

Tractat de Lisboa, Article 1, secció 16, que afegeix l'article 9 B en el Tractat sobre la Unió Europea, seccions 5 y 6 (2007/C 306/17,
18)

Blair exposa les seves demandes sobre el tractat de la UE. BBC, Juny de 2007

Taula 6 del sondeig FT/Harris, Juny de 2007

Signa la petició!

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 02:21:32 PM EST
I am thinking about changeing "sembla poc imaginable" by "sembla poc raonable"... which is moer like a catalan sentence although the translation is not literally correct.

Hope you do not mind.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 03:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, you're the expert. I only speak Catalan in limited circles.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 03:24:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]


We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 07:13:37 PM EST
Cuir stad air Blair ! (Scottish Gaelic) is up !

Now waiting for the other celtic languages : Britton, Irish, Welsh, Galician ?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 10:14:34 PM EST
Galician is indeed one of Spain's official languages, but it is most definitely a Romance language.

You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.
by Vagulus on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 10:36:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oups. Cornish and Manx, then?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 10:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The ISO language code for Scottish Gaelic is GD, not SG, I'll fix that...

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 10th, 2008 at 04:05:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
[Guk, jatorri eta joera politiko orotariko Europako hiritar garenok, adierazi nahi dugu Tony Blair Europar Kontseiluaren Lehendakari izendatzearen aurka gaudela zeharo.

Lisboako Hitzarmenak erabaki du kargu berri bat sortzea, Europar Kontseilaren Lehendakariarena, Kontseiluak berak hautatuko duena agindaldi osorako, bi urte t'erdirako, behin bakarrik berritu ahal izango dena. Hitzarmenaren hitzetan: "Europar Kontseiluaren Lehendakaria Kontseiluburu izango da eta haren lana bultzatuko du" eta "Europar Kontseiluaren prestaketa eta jarraipena segurtatuko du". Areago, "Europar Kontseiluko Lehendakariak, bere mailan eta ahalmen horrekin, Europar Batasunaren kanpo ordezkaritza segurtatuko du haren kanpo eta segurtasun politika komunei dagozkion arazoetan"¹.

Etorkizuneko Europar Kontseiluko Lehendakariak, beraz, giltza nagusia izango du Europar Batasunaren politikak erabakitzeko lanean eta munduko beste guztiekiko harremanetan ere bai. Lehen Kontseiluburu honek, halaber, pisu sinboliko nagusia izango du Europar Batasuneko hiritarrentzat zein Europar Batasunak munduaren gainerakoan duen irudiari dagokionean. Ikuspegi horretatik, guk uste dugu funtsezkoa dela lehen lehendarariak Europar proiektuaren espiritua eta balioak gorpuz ditzan bere baitan.

Azkenaldi honetan, gero eta albiste gehiagok agerian jarri dute desio bat zenbait bazterretan, Europar Kontseiluko Lehendakari izendaturik ikustea Tony Blair. Izendapen hau, gauzatuko balitz, erabateko kontraesanean izango litzateke Europar proiektuak agerian aitortzen dituen balioekin.

Nazioarteko legeak bortxatuz, Tony Blair-ek bere herria arriskarazi zuen Irakeko gerran, nahiz eta Europako hiritarren gehiengo zabala haren aurka agertu. Gerra honek ehunka mila biktima izan ditu eta milioika erbesteratu eragin ditu. Hori izan da Ekialde Ertainak gaur bizi duen desegonkortasun sakonaren eragile nagusia, eta horrek ahuldu du mundu osoko segurtasuna. Bere herria gerrara eramateko, Blair jaunak sistematikoki erabili zituen hutsetik sortutako froga faltsuak eta informazioaren manipulazioa. Irakeko gerran izan duen jokabideak pisu astuna izango du Europar Batasunak munduan duen irudian, inoiz haren lehendakari izendatua izango balitz.

Tony Blair-en gobernuak eman dituen pausoek, eta Bush-en administrazioarekin batera legez kanpoko "errenditze ohiz kanpokoen" programan izan duen jokabideak, aurrekaririk gabeko gainbehera eragin ditu askatasun zibiletan. Hori kontraesanean dago Hitzarmenaren muin den Giza Eskubideen Europar Konbentzioarekin.

Funtsezko Eskubideen Europar Kartak europar proiektuaren sortzezko balioak gauzatzen ditu eta Hitzarmen berriaren zutabeetako bat da. Tony Blair-ek borroka egin zuen hura ez zedin sartua izan Lisboako Hitzarmenean, eta azkenean lortu zuen Erresuma Batua salbuetsirik uztea.

Europaren integrazioa aurrera eraman ordez, Britaniar Lehen Ministro-ohiak "lerro gorriak" (nola-hala) deituriko arau-sail bat ezarri zuen Lisboako Hitzarmenaren negoziazioetan², gizarte gaietan eta zerga harmonizazioan edozein aurrerabide oztopatzeko asmoz, baita defentsa eta kanpo politika komunean ere.

Are gehiago, pentsaezina dirudi Europar Kontsiluaren lehen Lehendakaria izan dadin gobernuburu-ohi bat bere herria Europaren eraikuntzan giltzarri izan diren bi elementutatik kanpo mantendu duena: mugimendu libreko Schengen eremua eta Eurogunea.

Europar instituzioen lehentasun nagusietako bat bere hiritarrekiko lotura sendotzea den garaian, uste dugu funtsezkoa dela Europar Kontseiluaren Lehendakaria izan dadin norbait hiritarren gehiengoak harekin bat egiten duena, eta ez gehiengoak arbuiatzen duena³. Beraz, gure erabateko aurkakotasuna adierazten diogu izendapen honi.

Lisboako Hitzarmena, 1. artikulua, 16. puntua, bere baitan 9 B artikulua biltzen duena Europar Batasunaren Hitzarmenean, 5. and 6. puntuetan (2007/C 306/17, 18) ↑
Blair-ek bere eskariak agertzen ditu EUko hitzarmenari buruz, BBC, 2007ko ekaina ↑
6. taula FT/Harris inkestan, 2007ko ekaina ↑]

Dear eurotrib people and especially Migeru:

Lately I've been quite busy to reed eurotrib and too busy to translate the petition, but reading in Berria basque newspaper that eurotrib has some basque user but they aren't very active, didn't make me very happy.

The main reason is that in the petition page there are two sections while selecting the country you belong to. First, the UE official countries (States, speaking properly) + some mayor G8 + BRIC countries, etc. And in the second "regions" list (all nation-states of the world, but with some small exceptions like Scotland and Wales.

It's funny that UK people have choices that some european people don't have. I signed the petition before getting to 700 people, but it was a bit hard to me to have to select Spain, and not have the choice to select Basque Country (Euskal Herria - EH).

I'm not independentist and I hate and condemn the violence of ETA, but I hope that European Union will give us some way of democracy out of spanish integrism and french chauvinism: a bit respect for a little old country fighting to survive with its old language and habits.

So, I ask to eurotrib editors to offer choices to every country or people with its own language in Europe to choose its own country in the petition  like Basque Country, Catalonia, Galiza (in Spain) and many others in the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages (ECRML), though is noticeable that France doesn't appear protecting any language under the charter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Charter_for_Regional_or_Minority_Languages).

To finish, I'd like to say that if you fill my petition in this post, I'll send tons of messages to a lot of basque associations and news media, to get more signatures. But we are a bit bored of being forget. I'm sure my petition will be welcome in Catalonia and Galiza.

On the other hand, I'm probably very slow and clumsy, for I get impressed with all the activity shown by Jerome and many others, but I try to make little contributions, when I dare. This was the last, on friday, abit late:

 Amnesty International censored in Spain
Yesterday Amnesty International of Spain called a press conference to say that after being waiting for eight moths for a TV advertisement about human rights to be broadcasted, it was censored. Besides, any TV channel could be penalised with a 300.000 € fine if they broadcasted it.
That's the freedom of speech we are given in MSM in Spain.
This morning the advertisement was in the front page of the digital edition of Publico.es, but it has been removed; not only the advertisement, but also the news about the press conference.
I suggest you to watch to it, it's very good. Here:

www.elpoderdetuvoz.org
(the power of your voice)

A very literal translation to english below:
(Gaddafi)   All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights,
(Ahmadinejad)   without any distinction of race, colour, sex,
(Shimon Peres)   language, religion and politic opinion.
(Putin)   They have the right to the security of their person.
(Bush)   Nobody will be tortured, nobody will be arbitrarily arrested.
(F. Castro)   All of them will have the right to leave their country and come back,
(Hu Jintao)    to freedom of opinion, 
(Kim Jong-II)   to education and to a suitable level of life.

(Amnesty International guy) And no person nor state will never be able to violate any of these rights.

Best wishes to everybody
Thanks!

by kukute on Sat Feb 9th, 2008 at 11:23:49 PM EST
kukute:

I'm sorry I said that, but I hadn't seen you around the Stop Blair! threads (I probably missed you) or I would have asked you to translate it into Euskera.

As to

The main reason is that in the petition page there are two sections while selecting the country you belong to. First, the UE official countries (States, speaking properly) + some mayor G8 + BRIC countries, etc. And in the second "regions" list (all nation-states of the world, but with some small exceptions like Scotland and Wales.

It's funny that UK people have choices that some european people don't have. I signed the petition before getting to 700 people, but it was a bit hard to me to have to select Spain, and not have the choice to select Basque Country (Euskal Herria - EH).

we're hosting the petition on an American server and as long as we don't have our own server running the petition we have no control over many of the fine details. I'm not sure how much control Melanchthon had over the pull-down menu when he set it up.

Let's not go into the options that the UK has, because then we'll get into the international participation of Autonomous Sports Teams and all that...

You will notice the petition is already available in Esperanto, Catalan and Scottish Gaelic... Give us the benefit of the doubt!

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 10th, 2008 at 04:03:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Geldi dezagun Blair ! is up now !

Thanks kukute for translating, and following the instructions !

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Feb 10th, 2008 at 08:15:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also added to the list of petition links under the ET logo.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Feb 10th, 2008 at 08:19:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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