European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

I'm impressed with the quality of built in flash units on DSLRs. Now with this new knowledge, of course, I want to buy a more powerful flash anyway...

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 04:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some Yosemite pics (none / 1)

Ah! Flash gun lust. I know it well.

And while you are at it, buy those diffuser tents that go over the nice flash units. Trust me on this, if you have those and learn how to use them, you will take incredible pictures--especially portraits and product shots.

Just remember, photography is about capturing light. It's a whole new world when you have to supply the light too.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 04:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you mean a softbox?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:01:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My friend has one, it's seriously good.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Haven't a clue what they are called--though I have several friends that own them--NICE light!

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The D200 is the first one I've been happy with the pop-up flash at all, even for fill. Wait until off-camera flash starts getting to you.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.adorama.com/NKSB400AFU.html

My inner materialist demands satisfaction:

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't do it: save up for at least a SB-600 instead. That thing doesn't even do bounce flash.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:04:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was afraid you'd say that.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:05:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I take that back - the SB-400 does bounce horizontally. It's all the other features of a flash that it's missing.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:11:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's small size is appealing for my double-secret backpacking trip, though.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Its!

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some Yosemite pics (none / 1)

Actually, you know what? You probably won't regret buying it. You might hit off its limitations eventually, but there's always room for a small flash in a camera bag and you'll probably get good trade-in or resale value from it in a year or two. I wouldn't buy it, because I know I like to use the features of the SB-800, like full manual control and so on.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some Yosemite pics (4.00 / 9)

Sorry, the splashing water didn't seem to show in the above picture. Here is a tighter shot. Notice the splash at about 3:30 from the column of water. And all those sparkles are water droplets--I have not glazed the berries.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 04:27:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some Yosemite pics (none / 1)

Oh yum. I love raspberries. They look especially delicious. Nice capture of the water too.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some Yosemite pics (4.00 / 7)

Flash is much more useful during daylight - you've just invented fill-in flash, which adds some front lighting to a scene lit naturally from another angle.

It's a very nice technique - should be standard issue on all cameras. ;)

You can also use it to destroy any possible reference point for white balance:

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That works really well.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:45:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Flash is much more useful during daylight

It's a revelation.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 04:10:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NON-EXCITING THINGS FROM THE LAST WEEK (4.00 / 5)

it's been a very boring week as my dog will attest:

and black dogs are hard to photograph, and this one would probably benefit from some lightening.

shot through a piece of dichroic glass in one of the ctyd gate:

by town on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: EXCITING THINGS FROM THE LAST WEEK (4.00 / 8)

Took a fair few photos this week, but most are either snap shots or of family members who I don't really want to expose here ...

Christopher and Cleo:

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Baby rockers (4.00 / 2)

So they come equipped with airbags now?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: EXCITING THINGS FROM THE LAST WEEK (none / 1)

Make that Christopher and Cleo and Figgy's bum ...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:54:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: EXCITING THINGS FROM THE LAST WEEK (4.00 / 7)

My life this week has been so exciting that...I've been trying to sort out some of those packets of old photographs...

One of my last pre-digital trips was to India:

Taj Mahal

And, because the tourist police confiscate your camera on the way out if you don't take this shot...

by Sassafras on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: EXCITING THINGS FROM THE LAST WEEK (none / 0)

Those are great.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 at 03:55:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Exciting you say? (4.00 / 2)

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 at 02:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Exciting you say? (none / 1)

Ahhhhhh!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 at 04:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ASK THE EXPERT (none / 1)

"ASK THE EXPERT"

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:58:38 AM EST

Re: ASK THE EXPERT (4.00 / 4)

This could have been a good shot had I not forgotten to move the filter round when I turned the camera on it's side. It made me wonder if the grad filter would have been better placed in the bottom half of the shot to darken the cloud or would it have been better off without?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 03:02:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ASK THE EXPERT (4.00 / 3)

The only filter I have ever used for outdoor photography is a polarizing filter and I don't even have that choice for my point-and-shoot. So my suggestion is to consider filters just something else to stop carrying around. Anything worth using a filter for can be probably simulated in Photoshop.

But this picture is actually about the most interesting of questions when shooting outdoors--waiting for light. In this case, the sun is probably going behind the clouds for short time periods--you can tell because there's a big patch of blue. In such a case, you should wait for the light because otherwise the picture is essentially spoiled--because there is not enough (or the wrong kind) light on wall and the flag.

However, if the flag is in the shadow of the building and will be for say, the next six hours, waiting is impossible. In such a situation, you must make do. In my film days, I would bracket the shot with f-stops on either side of my best exposure guess. If you do this digitally, you may have pictures that are easier to manipulate in Photoshop. In this case, I would choose to work with the picture that gave me the best detail of the stone wall.

Another thing you can try is to "change" the background by moving around a bit. There may have been an angle here where the flag is in front of the big white cloud. That may have helped the composition and it might have made it easier to Photoshop. In any case, you give yourself a few more options if you find yourself constrained in other ways (you're in a tour group, your kids are furious that you have stopped again to take a picture, etc. etc.)

But if your goal was to show a blustery cold spring day, you succeeded. I can assure that I have nothing so warm to wear that I would have wanted to wait very long for the light.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:01:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I really should make more use of my polarizing filter. I have one and it is easy enough to use but I instinctively take out the grad filter each time. I didn't have the tripod with me but bracketing is another thing I need to think about more often.

I think I took the photo from that angle since that was where the flag was billowing such that I could catch the dragon. Easter monday with 20 tourists in my way and an impatient friend getting cold, as you say constrains the time and composition!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:41:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ASK THE EXPERT (4.00 / 2)

My dad was a big fan of the polarizing filter. He took a lot of pictures in the Midwest where there was often a lot of water in the air during the summer. This would introduce a haze that would lower the detail of clouds. In the black and white days, he would used a red or yellow filter to put the definition back into the clouds.

When color came along, hanging a red filter in front of the lens seemed especially pointless. Happily for my father, the polarizing filter had just gone on sale when he made his first serious moves to color. And it works MUCH better than a colored filter anyway--it doesn't do anything about the water in the air, but it does make it possible so the light the humidity is reflecting doesn't show up in your picture.

His nature photography lenses had their own polarizing filters that almost never came off. And you don't CAN turn them "off" if they start causing problems like eliminating the reflections on the surface of water, for example.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:13:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your last sentence doesn't make sense?

I still use red and yellow filters on B&W film: these are the black and white days!

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, but now black and white is a choice!

As for making the surface of water disappear--that is a known hazard of polarization. I knew a guy who almost killed himself landing an airplane on a lake--turns out he was breaking in a new pair of polarized flying glasses and the word had not yet spread about some of polarization's drawbacks. With the lens filter, of course, you just rotate the front glass 90° and you are back to the "real" world.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:32:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will make a mental note to use it more. I have decided to keep a scrapbook of useful tips and thoughts regarding photos.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Waiting for light is a cultural decision, IMHO. My father and I had a serious disagreement over the practice when he waited four DAYS for light in the Grand Tetons. I was a teenager and I was bored silly.

So I have spent some time collecting strategies for getting the best pictures under the circumstance. And of course, the best strategy is to go out with your camera when the light is most likely to be good. Unfortunately, many photogenic sites are closed during golden hour.

"Remember the I35W bridge--who needs terrorists when there are Republicans"

by techno (reply@elegant-technology.com) on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 at 03:49:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for all the tips, your contributions have been great. Must say, I'm not hardcore enough to wait 4 days for the right light! I hope he got a bloody good photo from that.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Mar 29th, 2008 at 03:57:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ASK THE EXPERT (4.00 / 3)

Despite being surrounded by the flowers, this is the only daffodil shot I have managed to get so far. Shot through the window of the castle keep, looking onto the moat. Would this have been a candidate for spot metering?

I had an impatient and cold friend with me so I had seconds to take any photos so I kept it on program mode and didn't alter any settings at all.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 03:06:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

l'm contemplating upgrading to a macbookpro and l'm curious if any of you have experience with the apple Aperture 2 application.

l currently have photoshop cs v. 8, [still pretty much a black-hole of a learning curve] as well as the canon digital photo pro programs on my existing mac, and wonder if there's any advantage to getting it as part of the package.

several friends of mine, both skilled photographers, are using it and they're lobbying hard for it's inclusion.

any thoughts?

thanks in advance.

by town on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you take a lot of photos Aperture is great - it's a good organisation tool and it allows you do the basic post-processing quickly. It's also good at outputting the photos. If you want to do a lot of complicated manipulations, (which I generally don't) you'll need photoshop or the gimp or whatever to do the manipulations.

Aperture is a much smoother, smarter version of iPhoto ... I like it a lot, and use it as my primary post-processing tool, together with Noise Ninja for handling noise reduction, especially from my GR-D II.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:33:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you have a machine the trial version will run on?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:47:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks for the feedback. l thought about that and checked, and no, l don't.

l'm leaning toward getting it, as l do minimal manipulation. interesting that you need another app for noise reduction...is the Noise Ninja a freeware app? l'm not familiar with it.

by town on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:06:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I only really need Noise Ninja (€80) for the small sensor GR-D II, which is noisy by ISO 200 and really bad at ISO 800. It's useful for the D200 at high ISO as well.

None of the main software seems to be as good as the specialised noise reduction stuff.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:09:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ASK THE EXPERT (4.00 / 4)

Have people seen that the free official, web based version of photoshop is available from today?

here

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PHOTOS AS USUAL (none / 1)

"PHOTOS AS USUAL"

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:59:16 AM EST

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 6)

The keep of Cardiff Castle, it has a moat around it. The castle and walls are built around the keep.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 03:10:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 7)

A duck that made the effort to look at the camera properly,
* nudge nudge* to the mallard at the top.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 03:13:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 3)

Equinox moon night.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 05:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Minor flood on the Danube (4.00 / 9)

Tree roots under water on my side, last snow on the nountains on the other side.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:08:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

After a freak blizzard passed (4.00 / 6)

On the edge of Salka/[Ipoly]szalka, near the recently opened border of Hungary and Slovakia, looking towards the outliers of the Burda mountain. There is a very faint, flat rainbow in the picture.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:15:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After a freak blizzard passed (none / 1)

Fantastic landscape.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:38:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After a freak blizzard passed (4.00 / 2)

Aint' it?

Yet, for the photographer, the best photos are those not made. Waiting in hope of a better vantage point later, I missed the opportunity of a photo in the opposite direction, with the Sun shining upon falling snow in front of the Börzsöny mountains a few kilometres away, framed by a black cloud above and right.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:53:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: After a freak blizzard passed (none / 1)

Oh I know the feeling.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 07:26:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

From estHer (4.00 / 4)

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 06:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 4)

Medieval lithographer.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 09:04:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (none / 1)

looks more like a calligraphist to me...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 09:46:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're absolutely right. Excuse my tired brain :-)

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 10:34:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 3)

Medieval embroidery.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 10:46:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Are they real medieval people? Do you have a time machine you haven't told us about?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 10:49:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course, but it's only in the experimental stage and only my camera goes back. The next thing I'm going to try is to get in it myself and see if I can go back about thirty five years.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 10:57:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

thirty five years? How ambitious.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 11:15:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (none / 1)

Rather modest as time machines go.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 11:32:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 2)

And I thought it was an H&M sale...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 11:45:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24470729@N03/2358864169/

I can't seem to embed a flickr photo here... :S

Have a link though...

by Torres on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 12:28:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 8)

Aha!

by Torres on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 12:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lovely!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 12:52:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmm, i believe this is against flickr user agreement or something... maybe i shouldn't have done it... feel free to delete it, if possible. If not, sorry...

by Torres on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 12:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it not your own photo? I guess if you acknowledge the source it should be ok. I can't check until I get home, certain sites are off limits through work firewall.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is my photo but flickr seems to prefer we use the "embed" version, where the photo links to flickr. I was getting HTML errors when trying to do it, so i tried the Eurotrib user recommendations for posting pictures.

This is what they say:

Remember! Flickr Community Guidelines specify that if you post a Flickr photo on an external website, the photo must link back to its photo page. (So, use Option 1.)

by Torres on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd fail to worry about that! What error were you getting?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your HTML has the following error :

* Attribute TITLE for tag A is not allowed

The image seems to post allright, its the link embedding that seems to be the problem.

by Torres on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 2)

Any better now?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 11)

Let's see... yep, it works!

by Torres on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 01:57:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very nice. Where was this taken?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you,
this was at the Zoo, in Lisbon.

by Torres on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 03:12:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 5)

It doesn't feel like it but Spring is busting out in my garden. Taken 20 minutes ago.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (4.00 / 8)

Swan:

Tunisian beach grass:

Tunisian beach:

Japanese students in Carthage:

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:43:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The detail on the swan is incredible. What lens did you use?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

These were all taken with my crappy Fuji S7000.

The swan is quite a tight crop, with some Noise Ninja to smooth out the wrinkles.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair bit of sharpening afterwards?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 02:55:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

None at all, except for bicubic sharper while resizing.

I think it's partly down to Noise Ninja, which brings out the detail by removing the noise - it's slightly less sharp overall, but all of the important details are clearer, so it looks more detailed.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 03:03:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PHOTOS AS USUAL (none / 1)

Also, I lost an arm just after taking this.

But I wasn't going to mention it.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 03:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't understand this?

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 28th, 2008 at 04:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]