European Tribune

Referendum question - with live blogging & results

by DoDo
Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 03:59:33 AM EST

This Sunday, I can vote in a referendum on some 'reforms', ones concerning healthcare. But colour me unenthusiastic: I wonder if the vote will really decide the future of 'reforms', or only who'll govern next.

Though since I began to draft this diary, I do tend in one direction, I felt inspired by redstar: after some intro on the campaign, the politics and polls; I will present you with the referendum questions, and ask you to tell me what to do and why.

Update [2008-3-10 3:59:33 by DoDo]: Bumped for the coverage of the actual referendum. Live blogging in the comments. Below the preliminary final result:

Turnout: 50.49% (highest in a referendum since 1989)

Yes vote ( = rejection of 'reforms') as percentage of valid votes, and as percentage of eligible voters:

  • Hospital bed charge: 84.08% (42.10%)
  • Doctor visitation charge: 82.42% (41.30%)
  • University tuition fees: 82.22% (41.15%)

As told in the comments, the PM announced a quick return to the status quo ante (not only from next year as in the referendum question), without earmarking extra funds for healthcare from somewhere else (the voter be punished for its foolish decision). Later he also had the gall to interpret absentions as silent support (also kicking those of his voters who are against 'reforms' but didn't want to reward the Right). Such spin may have worked for Bliar in Britain, but it looks suicidal here.

The referendum-initiating right-populists suggested to spend lottery tax income on healthcare... Meanwhile on the streets, riots were averted for now after one of the far-right leaders told the crowd that "we should wait a few days".


The basic situation, for the benefit of readers new to ET or my Hungary diaries:

Hungary is presently governed by a coalition of the post-reformed-communist Socialists (MSzP) and the now small post-liberal-opposition liberal Free Democrats (SzDSz) [bizarre huh?] under PM Ferenc Gyurcsány, a former communist youth leader turned businessman [no that's not bizarre]. The main opposition party is Fidesz, a right-populist party led by a yuppie cabal with former PM Viktor Orbán on top. The fourth party in parliament is a minor right-wing party currently viewing Merkel's CDU as role model.

Using runaway budget deficits as occasion, the government embarked on an austerity programme consisting of neoliberal reforms (also see Naomi Klein: Disaster Capitalism), with the notable exception of major tax cuts (no flat tax). So far, with little more result than an economic slowdown and popular opposition from the far-right to a good chunk of MSzP's base.

The most contentious is healthcare 'reform'. This was an SzDSz campaign theme, and then SzDSz made it the centerpiece of its government agenda. A suicidal strategy: the party tanked in polls, its healthcare minister and its neolib yuppie party chairman (whose election by a hair-thin margin I wrote about last year) rank as the last two in approval ratings of politicians.

Within the parliament, Fidesz fights against the reforms, for being anti-social [bizarre huh?]. Outside, street protests, often violent, have unfortunately became the thing of the far-right (who more or less explicitely subscribe to the liberals=capital=Jews=commies equation). There is no separation between the two. (Some) trade unions also raise some resistance, but in no small part due to the party-political links of the competing unions, they are ineffective.

In my last major politics in Hungary diary, Another Autumn of Discontent, I wrote about last year's referendum mania: the tragicomedic theatre of the two sides trying to bury each other with dozens of proposed referendum questions. We now get to vote on the first three of these: on the already in-effect laws that made healthcare and higher education not for-free.

In the meantime however, parliament already approved the real big reform on partial healthcare privatisation.


The referendum campaign

Basically, pro-government proponents reason that the State doesn't have enough money, the practice of patients giving money to the doctor for better treatment ("gratitude money") could be ended, and 'unnecessary' doctor visits and hospital stays waste money. Reasoning opponents argue that there should be money for this or that the measure only introduces extra bureaucracy and waits for patients, point out that gratitude money didn't disappear at all, call 'unnecessary doctor visits' a made-up problem or claim that those who really feel compelled to reduce doctor visits are poor patients with real problems.

The real campaign had little to do with reasoning, and was so inane I really don't want to bore you with details. I will only show the most colorful moments for entertainment. First I show three images. You should know the first one by now:

So look at the originality of the designer of the Fidesz referendum campaign!

"Social referendum 2008", it says. Now neoliberal reformists are non-plussed by such a slogan from a party occasionally using anti-communist rhetoric. Here is SzDSz's counter-placard:

It says: "2008 - referendum on socialism - THANKS, NO!" This from a formation that is in coalition with a party with "Socialist" in its name. I think irony just died (yet again).

As I mentioned, this was the perfect theme for the neoliberals' self-destruction. Even the lead columnist of the most pro-SzDSz weekly announced a No vote in the referendum, calling the doctor visit charge a "punishment" of patients. If that weren't enough, the right-wing media came in with a perfectly timed scandal.

I meantioned last year's narrow party chairman election. Now, two weeks ago, the right-wing media got the testimony of an SzDSz-close entrepreneur, who claimed that one local branch organised fake voting for absent delegates. Then a week later, they found one SzDSz member who was then an absent delegate, who found his faked signature on the attendance list. Having failed to make clean slate, the liberals are in total disarray, and that was it for their aggressive No vote campaign, too.

The campaign by other means was practiced by everyone against everyone, of which the most ridiculous was the "vote buying scandal" from right-wing private news channel HírTV  (think Fox News with pretensions to look like BBC). They played taped telephone calls, in which Gypsy minority self-governance leaders ask the campaign manager of an MSzP minister about an offer to buy votes that he relayed to them earlier also by phone. HírTV also contacted police with this.

The trouble was that the original caller was quickly identified as NOT the campaign manager, but a reporter for  HírTV itself... So they re-branded their exposure as 'investigative report', based on alleged earlier rumours. As for police, they continue to investigate...


Will a yes vote mean anything?

Winning the referendum could ensure a Fidesz government after the next elections, maybe even in early elections. Should they then be expected to get serious with public healthcare?

I have my grave doubts. On one hand, there is Fidesz's history of 180-degree-turns in its populism. There is Fidesz's history of policy ideas verging on Social Darwinism, like wanting to support rich parents to have more children than poor ones. There is Fidesz's praise for the economic boom achieved by the previous government of Slovakia, with flat tax and all, but healthcare privatisation was part of that (and was the main reason for that government's fall).

Then there is the age-old practice of newly elected governments to abandon election promises after declaring that "the situation left behind by our predecessors is even worse than we tought".

Then there is Lajos Kósa, major of second-largest Hungarian city Debrecen (nicknamed "The Calvinist Rome"). Though he is the only one in Fidesz with power independently of Orbán and his cabal, and thus makes his own policy, it gives one food for thought when Kósa declares that 'if Fidesz wins, what should be done is not undoing stuff'.

Until recently, Fidesz leaders openly called for radical tax cuts. Even during the campaign, Orbán said that tax cuts should start by ending the doctor visitation and hospital charges. Which makes one wonder if they seriously considered financing public health care. Or if they have any program -- as hard-left intellectual Gáspár Tamás Miklós says, here was the moment for Orbán to "declare the leftist programme his uninspired detractors - baselessly - accused him of".

Beyond the issue of how much of the current neoliberal destroyers' policies would really be corrected, I also think about whether they would let the far-right back into public media (as they did last time).


Polls

Note: (1) in the referendum, a Yes vote means a vote for the elimination of reforms; (2) a referendum is valid in Hungary if the majority constitutes more than 25% of all eligible voters (i.e. in theory, a 25% turnout with 100% Yes vote is a valid and successful referendum, the same with a 100% No vote is a valid but defeated referendum).

All polls show support for Yes over No at at least 70:30. Even with the expected moderate turnout (46-57% promise it, from experience that means 40-55% actual turnout), at least 30 and up to 50% of all eligible voters for Yes on all three questions looks certain.

MSzP supporters are much less willing to participate, and even half of those who promise to go would vote against the government. The majority would not want the government to resign after a successful referendum, but when the question is asked about the PM (Gallup), the majority is for a step-down.

(The poll sources: Medián, which is generally reliable, for HVG magazine; Századvég-Forsense, a creation of former Fidesz people; Gallup, which is Fidesz-close in Hungary; Socialist-close Szonda-Ipsos in today's Népszabadság, the main pro-government center-'left' daily.)


The questions

Egyetért-e Ön azzal, hogy a fekvőbeteg-gyógyintézeti ellátásért a jelen kérdésben megtartott népszavazást követő év január 1-jétől ne kelljen kórházi napidíjat fizetni?Do You agree that from 1 January in the year after this referendum is held, no daily hospital charge shall be required for the treatment of in-patients?
Egyetért-e Ön azzal, hogy a háziorvosi ellátásért, fogászati ellátásért és a járóbeteg-szakellátásért a jelen kérdésben megtartott népszavazást követő év január 1-jétől ne kelljen vizitdíjat fizetni?Do You agree that from 1 January in the year after this referendum is held, no visitation charge shall be required for family doctor attendance, dentist attendance, and out-patient specialist treatment?
Egyetért-e Ön azzal, hogy az államilag támogatott felsőfokú tanulmányokat folytató hallgatóknak ne kelljen képzési hozzájárulást fizetniük?Do You agree that students participating in publicly funded higher education shall not be required to pay tuition fees?

So, how would should I vote? Should I even vote?

Should I be more worried of a narrow failure on validity, or a high margin of victory that is taken by some as a mandate?

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In other Hungary news: Fidesz is also making a fuss over last Thursday's deal between Hungary and Russia/Gazprom over South Stream, in best anti-Communist/Soviet/Russian tradition.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 11:39:24 AM EST
Okay, with pretty unanimous opinions, I can admit I also tend for swallowing the right-wing toad and voting 3xYes. (In fact I did so once before.) In recent days, on one hand I saw the potential of early elections recede, on the other hand, I saw the credit a future Fidesz government would start with reduced. (Some of this is reflected by the diary, it would have been a lot harsher written two weeks ago.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 06:44:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Follow up question - does Hungary have a participation requirement for passage of referenda (as in, say, neighboring Serbia)?

If so, I wouldn't vote.

Follow-on - what is voter participation looking to be on this? If less than say 30%, I wouldn't vote either, a low turnout undermines the credibilty of the "reform" effort and this is important because the neo-lib movement is running out of steam.

Sounds to me like Hungary needs its own Die Linke. Wasn't Erich Hoenicker's younger brother in Hungary? Maybe he's available. There has to be enough pissed off pensioners, especially if this reform goes through (prob why Fidesz, who likely draws from this constituency, is campaigning against the reform), who might be starting to think better of the counter revolution...

For the record, after Edwards dropped out, and considering I was both sick and not particularly thrilled with spending 4 hours in a caucus with what turned out to be pneumonia, I didn't bother voting. And no, I'm not bitching, for similar reasons to you given your choices in Hungary, I don't care enough about the disenfranchising process to bitch anymore...

"C'est un scandale !"

by redstar on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 12:14:19 PM EST
On the requirement for passage, I wrote:

a referendum is valid in Hungary if the majority constitutes more than 25% of all eligible voters (i.e. in theory, a 25% turnout with 100% Yes vote is a valid and successful referendum).

I don't understand your argument about low turnout. How would the failure an anti-reforms referendum on participation undermine the neolibs? Maybe you misread me on the polls, and thought the wide mayority for Yes is a wide majority for the reforms rather than for repealing them?

Sounds to me like Hungary needs its own Die Linke.

Would I wish a genuine hard-left party, also for the political youth to see another way to be radical than being fascist, and desperate pensioners seeing other saviours than the fascists or king Orbán. But the special circumstances of re-unified Germany (where the post-reformed-communists weren't regime changers [i.e. old cadre = new businessman] and were kept from corrupting power, and merged with Western new/old leftists) don't exist here.

Wasn't Erich Hoenicker's younger brother in Hungary?

Hinecker. Never heard of a younger brother. At any rate, this has to be a bad joke.

I note that there is a post-unreformed-communist party in Hungary, currently called Hungarian Communist Workers' Party. Unfortunately, it is an irrelevancy consisting of a couple of Kádár nostalgics around a would-be-Big-Brother who likes to cozy up to dictators, personally: he was first to greet the coup leaders against Gorbachev in Moscow, then came overtures to Milo and Saddam. (They are also the last holders to the regime propaganda on 1956, and thus as steadfast deniers of its leftist nature as the Right -- including the, heh, real existing communism of the Workers' Councils.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 02:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not much chance for a real left wing party in Poland either. There have been two serious attempts, both coopted and destroyed by the mutual aid society of corrupt ex-apparatchiks otherwise known as the SLD. To make matters worse, the group which has done worst under capitalism and which is most hostile to neo-liberalism are the peasants, and they're otherwise deeply conservative. So an anti-neoliberal party has to either be very nationalist and catholic or give up on that (huge) voting bloc. In urban areas they can compete for anti-neoliberal elderly and the working class but many of the former tend to either be nostalgic for communist times or share the peasant conservatism, the latter have often done quite well under capitalism, particularly the last couple years. The result is that the most successful anti-neoliberal parties have tended towards right wing populism or outright fascism.
by MarekNYC on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 03:16:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Long time no see!

Incidentally, I was thinking of you today due to a similar subject: I thought that with no one closer around, I should write a diary on the current government's flat tax plans. But would you be willing to write such a diary, or one on other new developments since the election?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 05:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm actually going off to London and Geneva for a couple weeks starting this Sunday so I don't know if I'll be able to get to that before I leave, but I'll see. It would be on something else than the flat tax since I haven't followed that closely.
by MarekNYC on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 06:17:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you have any spare time to meet while you're in London?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 07:03:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I should though I'm only there for a few days, arriving Monday morning and leaving Thursday morning. I'll e-mail you the details.
by MarekNYC on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 07:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm extremely flexible these days, it's one of the advantages of unemployment.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 07:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So, if it needs 25% approval of all eligible voters and you are against reform, than by not voting you are essentially voting against. Is that how it works? Which is, incidentally, how things work in Serbia but there the approval threshold is a more democratically credible 50%.

25% means better than 50% of 50%, that's a pretty easy threshold to pass,though most recent US Presidents (Bush 1, Clinton either time, or Bush 2) haven't passed it.

I dunno, I still wouldn't vote. It only encourages them. Anyhow, I'm sure the SNCF is hiring quality people, how is your French? Our President is also Hungarian, you know, and my wife is too (by half)...

And yes, I was joking about Honecker.

"C'est un scandale !"

by redstar on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 03:20:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You still don't get it. The referendum questions ask, in essence, "do you want to abolish these neolib reforms?" If the majority votes Yes, that means a rejection of reforms, if the majority votes No, that means an approval. But regadless whether Yes or No gains majority, the vote is valid if that majority is more than 25% of the voting-age population.

Thus, if 70% vote Yes but turnout is just 35%, the majority voted against reforms but the vote is invalid (the majority, here the Yes side, is just 24.5% of all). And then the reformists can claim the support or toleration of the 'silent majority' (who stayed home).

I'm sure the SNCF is hiring quality people, how is your French? Our President is also Hungarian, you know, and my wife is too (by half)...

Mon français est mauvais... base level, I wanted to go on to medium level, but my company didn't support a course the next year. Your prez turned mud to shit, but maybe I can derail his ambitions?...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 05:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I got how it worked, I just didn't understand that the no vote was actually for reform. I should have understood it but this doesn't make sense.

In Serbia consitutional reform only passes if 50% of eligible voters vote for the reform. So if you don't vote, you are voting against. So in essense it is far easier to vote against - those who are simply apathetic stay home and watch basketball instead of bothering to vote and thus they vote no. And, the logical extension, most people who vote (90%+) vote yes because the only reason they would vote is to vote yes. Sounds like Hungary has the same mechanism but with a (thankfully if you are for the change) lower passage threshold.

Sounds like your "socialists" have gamed the referendum to make sure they get the advantage of the apathetic vote. Negative-option voting though is pretty undemocratic and I would think this vote will not pass the smell test for whomever actually wants to have Hungary have a modern healthcare delivery system some day.

I guess in view of this I'd go and vote yes. The enemy of your enemy is your friend.

"C'est un scandale !"

by redstar on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 05:49:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would vote "yes" myself on the grounds that the policy to be repealed is abhorrent.

If Fidesz wins the next election and tries to pass the same policy they can be fought then.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 05:52:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like in most countries with a validity limit (with Switzerland being the most notable without such a limit), Hungary originally prescribed a 50% turnout, which asumes the same minimum for a majority. The change came due to typically low turnouts. Incidentally, before the referendum on NATO accession (turnout ended up at 49%, though with an overwhelming 85% majority that included me, who regretted it since).

Sounds like your "socialists" have gamed the referendum

You again don't get it :-) You seem to be thinking in terms of constitution changing referendums only, when there is an obligation to put some big change up for vote before implementing it. (I am guessing France only has those and your US state has none.) But there are referenda only concerning changes in law not constitution, based on public initiatives. This referendum is such a referendum, they were the initiative of Fidesz, which collected 200,000 signatures for each.

Nothing MSzP could game to its advantage there. In fact, that 25% rule works to their advantage: all they need is to gather 25%+1 for voting Yes, they don't depend on another 25% turning up to vote No.

Negative-option voting though is pretty undemocratic

I don't understand the above at all. People just can't say no?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 06:24:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I checked, I see Erich's older brother Wilhelm "Willi" Honecker died in Hungary in 1944. He was a simple soldier on the Eastern Front. There was one brother younger than Erich, Karl-Robert, of whom I only found that he died in 1947.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 03:01:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To me, if you oppose the reforms, you have to vote yes.

Fidesz may well turn around and screw you over by doing nothing to repeal the reforms, but if the referendum endorses the reforms they will become canonical, part of the governing consensus for the next 50 years. Whenever anyone questions them, neo-liberals will just point to the referendum: "see the public agrees the reforms are necessary..."

Likewise, if turnout is too low, it will be "see, people don't really care about healthcare reform."

In fact, if one looks at the discourse in the US over healthcare, you can see how these kind of excuses can kill decent social provision for an entire generation...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 02:02:51 PM EST
Unless the government has specifically staked its continuing existence on the result of this vote, I would vote Yes. If it has, I might be tempted to abstain - but even so, the chances look to be a win for the Yes anyway. (Even a 40% turnout at 70% for the Yes = 28%, which validates the referendum). The best outcome would be a Yes victory but no government stand-down as a result.

I think referenda should, in any constitutional arrangement, be sparingly used. They can be manipulated and give rise to all kinds of complicated situations, as here. In any event, they should not determine the fall of the government, or they will constantly be abused to bring that about.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 03:17:47 PM EST
Fidesz expects the next 'round' of referendum questions in September, altogether at least a dozen questions are bound to end up on the ballot.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Mar 5th, 2008 at 05:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re my mixed feelings, Fidesz again made it clear what this referendum is really about for them. In the last few days, lamp-posts were plastered full with orange stickers calling for 3xYes, with the double-meaning slogan "eltöröljük őket". Literally, this means "we erase them". In Hungarian, this can mean "we squash [these laws]" (though with bad grammar). But it can also mean "we eradicate [the political opponent]". And that has a quite brutal ring to it.

Still, I went to vote 3xYes.

Of the few other people whose vote I know, there are 3xYes voters both left and right, one mixed vote (Yes only for hospitals), a few 3xNo, and several absentees disgruntled one way or another.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 at 01:43:44 PM EST
Polls close 19h CET. At 17h30, turnout was 46.34%.

This means that we will exceed 50% by all likelihood. Thus the referendum will be valid whatever is the vote. Based on the polls I showed, 3xYes is all but certain.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 at 01:46:20 PM EST
No exit polls, only pre-election-day polls, they show almost 80% Yes for each question.

Turnout is now projected at 56%, this would give Yes majorities that are 39-41% of all eligible voters. So a comfortable victory of the vote against reforms.

The pollsters again have an egg on their face: they expected much lower turnout, around 45%. But still, they have interesting data: for the first time in Hungarian voting history, the rural turnout exceeded the urban vote.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 at 02:08:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now it looks like turnout will be just shy of 50%. However, Yes majorities are 83-85% of (actual) voters, and just got above 25% of eligible voters, with the largest precints not yet reporting...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 at 03:29:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
During the fight about the referendum, one of the reformists' points was that the referendum questions are on a budgetary issue (something barred from referendums). But the Constitutional Court ruled against.

However, immediately after polls closed, the PM held an unscheduled press conference, declaring that the government will introduce draft laws re-instating the pre-reform status quo ante, but won't be able, nor intend to find other sources of money for hospitals, doctors and universities.

Bang...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 at 02:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hundreds of 'spontaneous' protesters gathering at the Parliament, with the usual composition: many skinheads and retired fools.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sun Mar 9th, 2008 at 03:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A government politician again forgot to keep his mouth shut in the gaze of right-wing media.

HírTV taped two leaders of (neo)liberal SzDSz while they watched the PM's speech. The PM was using the following rhetoric: "All that happened today is that people said, 'if one doesn't have to pay 300 Ft [c. €1.2, the visitation charge], then we would like to not pay 300 Ft." Then one of the SzDSz guys remarked to the other: "That's not what they said, Feri [PMs nickname], they said you to fuck yourself!"...

(To wit: this is certainly what motivated many if not most on the Right, but also comes handy for reformist self-delusions about lack of real popular rejection.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Mar 10th, 2008 at 04:09:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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