European Tribune

What's the definition of a "Lurker"? Diary of a New User

by amity
Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:38:12 AM EST

From Wiki:
In Internet culture, a lurker is a person who reads discussions on a message board, newsgroup, chatroom, file sharing or other interactive system, but rarely participates.

Why is it often the case that a simple Wiki definition could have prevented marital strife?

I am a self-confessed lurker on the Internet.  The other day I even set-up, ok, my husband helped me set-up, bookmarks of some of the blogs I read regularly to open all in one window.  I read EuroTrib regularly and am impressed by the quality of the analysis of topics that really interest me and key insights that others share so freely.    

I am a bit intimidated to post comments or diaries.  It's a strange mixture of fear of others, not really sure what I can write or add, and a bit lacking the technical expertise. I have read the New Users Guide and found to be very helpful.  I have posted a comment once to the Sunday open thread and really appreciated that a member took the time to welcome me to the group.  

My husband is very active in the blogging world and spends a lot of time reading and participating.  A few times he's referred to my activities as a "lurker" and I didn't like him calling me that.  For me there is something negative associated with someone who just "lurks" on blogs.  

For many years I was active in the Burning Man where for one week a year an active community is built in the Blackrock desert of Arizona.  There's the saying, "no spectators", meaning people whose only interest is watching others or taking lots of pictures are encouraged to get involved in some way.  

Was I a "spectator" in an online community?

Wanting to shed the "lurker" title I decided I wanted to post a quick comment with a video link that I had seen the other day.   I found the video very insightful and relevant to a diary.  I asked my husband for help.....

"That's not really appropriate as a comment, you should write your own diary."

"You really need to source the link giving kudos to the other blog where you first saw the video."

"You are kind of preaching to the choir since most of the people here know this already."

Not the form of encouragement and technical assistance that I needed to post a quick comment.  My husband is probably right, but him saying that he is right doesn't help and then him calling me a lurker again just set me off.  Here I was trying not to be a lurker and I'm called a lurker.    

To his defense he has said many times that there is no negative connotation to the Internet culture definition of Lurker and even Wiki backs him up.  I think it's just a culture clash of being part of a community for many years that actively engaged people and discourages "spectators".

He even went so far to say that on many blogs he's a lurker.  Since I know he's had hundreds of posts on online communities, and had posted a few times that morning already, that label just didn't fit.  It's like saying someone who just finished building a huge art installation at Burning Man is now a spectator since they are looking at other people's art.  Again, it just doesn't fit.    

I hope someday soon the title lurker won't bother me.  I get that blogs wouldn't be so successful and meaningful if there weren't people reading them.  I think recommending diaries and giving ratings are a nice way to start.  

Furthermore, I hope someday I can get over my fears and be an active and engaged participant in this online community where I am spending more and more time.  


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I hope someday I can get over my fears and be an active and engaged participant in this online community where I am spending more and more time.

I hope you do too.  Welcome to ET, and thank you for such a thoughtful opening diary.

by Sassafras on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:51:04 AM EST
Well I think you've made a great start in stepping out in style with this diary!  You certainly won't be the only one hovering in the background and not being too sure how or whether to make yourself known.

I 'lurked' for a long time on ET, and still now I don't look at any other blogs (like, where's the time?)

So croeso/welcome!  I hope you'll find yourself commenting more and giving us the chance to get to know who you are.  Your diary is a really nice piece of writing too so I do hope we'll see more.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:57:30 AM EST
I still don't like "blog" as a word--it reminds me of "log" (the wooden thing) and the "b" reminds me of "blurt" or "bleugh" etc.  like a burp--a bl(eugh!)og.

For me, if I lurk it's just that I read but don't write-and-post.  (There's that fun part where you write-and-delete-comment-without-posting!)  The negative connotation as I've understood it is that the person "can't post"--meaning: they aren't good enough to post. "Go back to lurking--you're better at it!"  That kind of thing.  A site where comments of that kind abound is...a vicarious thrill or maybe a punch up--not my cup of tea.

I suppose there must be another stage where a person writes and posts but doesn't read much else of what's going on--and in the middle, some reading, some writing--the fact that one can write (or post videos or pictures) is the difference--and that the process of posting is not complicated--one of the things I like about ET is that anyone can join up, click on "Write a new diary entry..." and voila!  I like ratings (makes a person feel their comment has been read and appreciated), but everyone has their own internal logic to how they rate, from "I read it, so I'll rate it" to "I will only rate a comment if it is of exceptional quality" in comparison to others, maybe, or compared to other comments by the same writer...all the convolutions are there, and all the cultural variations...

The worst that can happen to a comment is that it sits quietly on its own, no ratings, no replies.  I have a theory that the best comment ever will gain no replies and no ratings--heh...

....I would love to go to Burning Man.

Talking of videos, here's one--three guitarists play La Rossiniana, by Mauro Giuliani.  Hope you like it!



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:15:40 PM EST
The above is not the best comment ever. I replied to it and gave it a 4.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:23:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Curses!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a really nice "de-lurking" diary, amity, thanks! Welcome, and don't be intimidated. As Helen says, our bark is worse than our bite. Er, woof.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:21:07 PM EST
Welcome!

Good diary.

Please don't hesitate to write what you think needs to be said, in the way you think it should be said.  You can provide a valuable service to ET as a 'newbie' (a newcomer to a blog) in helping other people who feel uncomfortable about dipping their toes in this pool of opinionated, verbose, comma-pluckers.  ;-)

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run

by ATinNM on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:37:39 PM EST
Ahem.... misquoted, but that's OK.

Welcome to the ET, honey!

Now that you've lost your lurkginity, I hope to see more of you online.

BTW: The link she wanted to post was one that I had emailed to her. It's to a talk by Prof. Clay Shirky at the Web 2.0 Expo in SF this year.

LINK

It''s about the "cognitive surplus" that is now being utilized to create collaborative online endeavors such as Wiki and ET. A very interesting and stimulating talk. Highly recommended!

by gioele (gioele(daught)sandler(aaaattttt)gmail(daught)kom) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:57:25 PM EST
Oh, h/t to Atrios for the link...
by gioele (gioele(daught)sandler(aaaattttt)gmail(daught)kom) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:18:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... been a diary rather than a comment?


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:49:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like I said.... misquoted....

Heh, heh, good one though....

by gioele (gioele(daught)sandler(aaaattttt)gmail(daught)kom) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:37:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... and I couldn't just lurk.

Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 07:56:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
gioele:
lurkginity

I knew I'd lost something important when I started posting.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
it'll  be down the back of the sofa.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So that's what that was.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:47:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, your voice in our community is very wlecome. As we've discussed on the meta thread, this can be a bit of a school playground at times, we can be a bit cliquey and there's definitely a few kewl kids and sometimes the rest of us squabble and pull each other's hair.

But most of the time, it's pull up a chair, crack open a brew and have a good chat about stuff we care about.

And don't worry about being an expert on anything. {whisper}I never know what I'm talking about and a lot of them haven't noticed yet. Ssh, don't tell 'em{/whisper}

However, I know a definition of "lurker" that is distinctly unflattering, but as I lurk on several US blogs I'll not repeat it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:03:01 PM EST
Helen:
{whisper}I never know what I'm talking about and a lot of them haven't noticed yet. Ssh, don't tell 'em{/whisper}

damn, you had me fooled ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
{whisper}That's because the rest of us don't know what we're talking about either...{/whisper}

;)

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:16:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I wasn't going to admit it. ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And that's nothing compared to what's going on in Malta...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not sure we need to go into 'Bozos in Gozo' propaganda ;.)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:42:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you know we had an early ET user living in Gozo? We haven't heard of him in a long time, though...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 07:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't, but i know the bohemian Gozo expatriate community at a distance. I quite like them ;-)

"That's nothing compared with what happens on Malta"

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 07:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Congratulations on coming out. :)

Uhm, this is a perfectly acceptable diary, so I would stop listenning to people whose comments make you feel bad about yourself.  Even if you happen to be married to them.  

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:26:11 PM EST
Especially if you happen to be married to them

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ahem.... I was misquoted....

.... and now misunderstood.... sigh....

Our whole discussion was about what the definition of lurker was in an online context. I told her it had no negative connotation. She didn't believe me, took it the wrong way and wouldn't let go of her erronius misperception.

Thus, wiki, a source you can trust (usually).

That's the point.

by gioele (gioele(daught)sandler(aaaattttt)gmail(daught)kom) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry if I gave the impression of anything to the contrary.  My husband is a constant source of immense support and has never made me feel bad about myself.  In fact, he is amazingly encouraging, inspiring, and I wouldn't know about the EuroTrib community if he hadn't shared it with me.  

I did misinterpret the meaning of "lurker" as something negative and wanted to point out that a part of this is linked to my own personal experience with the word "spectator".

I aspire to be as well read and up-to-date with current events as my husband.  At a dinner party tonight a Hungarian colleague commented that he knows more about Hungarian politics than he did.  This is in part thanks to all who participate in EuroTrib community!

Even after misquoting him in this public forum he is still sharing with me the excitement of my first diary.  

by amity on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for turning up, join the fun.

one thing , I think I speak for everyone when  say we have no problem with people lurking. amongst other things, we're a resource for the wider world, and if people cant turn up, read and go away again without feeling that they have to contribute, then in a large part we're failing.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:11:09 PM EST
Welcome aboard! Everytime I hear the word "lurker" I remember a song by Laurie Anderson in her album The Ugly One With the Jewels- The Ouija Board Lyrics:

In 1978, I spent some time in California in the fall, looking for a quiet place to live. I finally found what seemed to be the perfect apartment. But the night after I moved in I heard a tremendous pounding sound. As it turned out, I had moved in right above a Hawaiian hallow log drum school. Every other night, it was converted into a hula school with a live band of six Hawaiian guitars.
I decided to soundproof my place but I didn't hang the door very well and all the sounds kept drifting in. About this time, like a lot of New Yorkers who find themselves on the West Coast, I got interested in various aspects of California's versions of the occult. We would sit around at night when the Santa Anna winds howled outside, and ask questions to the ouija board. I found out a lot of information on my past 9,361 human lives on this planet. My first life was as a raccoon.

-- And then you were a cow. And then you were a bird. And then you were a hat, spelled the ouija.

We said "a hat?" We couldn't figure it out. Finally we guessed that the feathers from the bird had been made into a hat. Is this true?

-- Yes, spelled the ouija. Hat counts as half life.

And then?

-- Hundreds and hundreds of rave eyes.

Now this is apparently my first life as a woman, which should explain quite a few things. Eventually though, the ouija's written words seemed to take a kind of personality, a kind of a voice. Finally we began to ask the board if the ouija would be willing to appear to us in some other form.

-- Forget it, forget it, forget it, forget it, forget it, forget it.

The ouija seemed like it was about to crash. Please, please, what can we do now so you will show yourself to us in some other manifestation?

-- You should lurk. You should L, U, R, K. Lurk.

No, I never really figured out how to lurk in my own place, even though it was only a rented place, but I did find myself looking over my shoulder a lot. And every sound that drifted in seemed to be a version of this phantom voice whispering in a code that I could never crack.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:22:21 PM EST
Welcome.  

They also serve who only lurk and wait,
indeed they serve the more than those who bark and bait!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:55:38 PM EST
As a lurker you are part of the 80% majority, on most blogs even more. Don't worry about it. If there were no gallery to play to...
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:45:40 PM EST
Independently of teh name of it.. just do what is fun!!!

if it is fun to read.. do it!! if it s fun to write once in a while ... do it!!

if it is fun to discuss .. do it!!

whatever you feel like doing it....!!!

so I fell like... saying Hello!!!!!!!

And yes.. nike stole one of my favourites sentences in spanish... the famous "hazlo"

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:07:35 PM EST
Hi amity, welcome to ET and though husbands might have their uses, here on ET just do what feels right to you. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:14:28 PM EST
welcome, amity (i like your handle).

well done for taking the plunge....wasn't so bad, was it? it's only freezing for a few seconds!

do you guys live in sicilia?

"Growth is the Holy Grail, nature is an optional extra." David Neville

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:34:56 PM EST
I lurk therefore I am.
by Asinus Asinum Fricat (pjmandeville@gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:37:52 PM EST
The nice thing about online communities is that there is no right "style". If you want to write first person diaries, that's fine. If you want to write about universal truths, that's fine too.

Blogs don't have space constraints as does print, so the worst that can happen is that your diary gets ignored. So write what you wish and tell your husband to get outside more, he's obviously spending too much time at his keyboard!

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:33:45 PM EST
I, for one, found this a very straightforward and honest diary.  I hope for more straightforwardness and honesty.

I have to say that I have not yet come to terms with lurkers. These are the people who drive to work because they are not sure of the bus timetable, and don't quite understand the principle of insulation.

But lurkers who come out of the closet are the blessed. They are proof that we are not totally bohemian nor totally anally retentive.  We are citizens of this world, and we are not going to take it anymore - to quote.

Welcome.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:58:19 PM EST
from one mostly-lurker to another.

Although, in the immortal (heh) words of Spike:

I wasn't lurking ... I was standin' about.

It's a totally different vibe.  

by Maryb2004 on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 10:26:35 PM EST


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