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Thursday Open Thread

by In Wales
Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:48:56 AM EST

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Thursday Open Thread | 140 comments (140 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I did have something to say earlier for the OT but I have forgotten now. But here it is, anyway.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 11:50:04 AM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Any hint as to which photos I should be digging out of my archives for tomorrow?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:14:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Oh, I had an idea for this--make the subject "context"!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:20:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Just a suggestion of course ;)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:21:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

In Wales is the photo blog master (mistress?) tomorrow. But I'm not quite sure what you mean by "context." That's not one of those things from a meta diary?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:38:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Every photo has a context--I realised while watching people photographing all kinds of things that they are cropping--by position, zoom, or afterwards in their editing--to achieve something special--and that special has a context--so a picture of a castle on a hill--how to take it? Click click (our camera goes woof--don't know why, we can't work out how to change it)--but....what's the context? What I mean is, what is happening around a photograph such that elements are chopped out?

My example: I was standing on a bridge looking at a local brewery, I thought (I don't carry a camera) about what kind of photo I might take--how to capture--what? The brewery (so the context would be: let's not show the viewer that bit of cement by the river); or I could go for a river shot, where the context might be "lose the factories, they're ugly"--or I could take a photo of the whole thing as a blank shot--"this is what it looks like"--

There are postcards from our town designed to be as...unphotoworthy as possible--terrible angles, subjects all out of sync with surroundings--and they worked well because that is often our daily experience: that the world contains all those elements the photo has chopped out--

--so "context"--what's missing? What was taken out of the shot, and why?

(In my head it ties into the idea that photos are lies we tell, like films and theatre etc...)

heh....I no makea de sense again!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Whenever you frame something, what you exclude is as important as what you include. Photography is a matrix machine.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Yeah. And I realise that "lie" is a strong word--"the camera never lies--oh, could you airbrush out that wrinkle?" I saw a programme about a 43 year old who was trying to be a photo model, she was explaining that they airbrush out all the wrinkles.

By "lie" I mean that they are not representations of reality--or no more a representation of lived human reality than a painting or a piece of music. They can explicitly aim to be nothing more than passive recording devices, but how to capture the emotion at the time--so sometimes (I was thinking of a picture DoDo posted of a hill, and melo's shots of sunsets) you have this thing that happened that you want to pass on--unmediated, but there's an obtrusive element that distracts--so there's idealisation. Then there's our favourite shot of ourselves, the complimentary one--etc. So "the camera never lies, it just bends truths through the matrix machine while saying, 'yeah, this is the truth, well, this bit, and maybe that bit, and oh--hey! Did you think of this--look!'"

...as the subject for the photo blog--only more wittily expressed!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

You would have to prepare for a diary like that. It's very interesting. You could take several photos of each total scene. Of course which photo would be the subject and which the context?

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:04:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For example: (none / 1)

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:20:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For example: (none / 1)

I think it's obvious which one's the context here.

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:27:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

Argh! I just put the blog up and then saw this! Maybe we can have 'context' for LEP's blog next week?

Although we (being me and Colman) did have a quick discussion on the OT on wednesday and decided on 'rules of composition'. If you have any shots that have been taken either deliberately or accidentally looking as though they fit with the rule of thirds, diagonal rule or the golden section then they can go in that bit of the blog.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 01:32:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

See I dun proved it (4.00 / 3)

Keith Olbermann gets pretty damn contemptuous and then angry, more than usual.

Transcript here

Mr. Bush, I hate to break it to you six-and-a-half years after you yoked this nation and your place in history to the wrong war, in the wrong place, against the wrong people.
But the war in Iraq is not about you
...................
And, Sir, if you have any hopes that next January 20th will not be celebrated as a day of soul-wrenching, heart-felt Thanksgiving, because your faithless stewardship of this presidency will have finally come to a merciful end, this last piece of advice:
When somebody asks you, Sir, about Democrats who must now pull this country back from the abyss you have placed us at...
When somebody asks you, Sir, about the cooked books and faked threats you foisted on a sincere and frightened nation...
When somebody asks you, Sir, about your gallant, noble, self-abnegating sacrifice of your golf game so as to soothe the families of the war dead.
This advice, Mr. Bush...
Shut the... hell up!

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:01:48 PM EST

Re: See I dun proved it (none / 0)

I actually think he's doing special comments a bit too much lately, but this was a decent one, and I appreciate him ripping into McShitforBrains.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: See I dun proved it (none / 1)

He says he only does it when motivated by a particular event, but I guess there's been a lot coming down that's annoyed him. I think if I was an American it'd annoy me a lot as well. I get pretty shouty about our pols and they're nothing on your lot.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: See I dun proved it (none / 0)

Yeah, the problem, though, is that he blew his wad last night when he could've gotten off a good one tonight over Bush comparing Obama to a Nazi appeaser.

Maybe a second is in order. Prescott Bush, Nazi Collaborator? Anyone? Could be fun.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:01:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Prescott Bush (none / 1)

Yea, but then you'd probably have to mention Joe Kennedy and that'd be something of an own goal given how his sons turned out.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (none / 1)

Nah, there's no connection to draw on between Joe Kennedy and Obama, though, except to say that Teddy endorsed him.

With Bush, the connection is direct and obvious, and I'm inclined to think it will get attention, but I wish Dems would bring it up in their responses anyway.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (none / 1)

Dems still not getting it though.

Biden's comments are a long way from pwnwage. Pwnwage would be something like 'President Loser.'

Or even - here's a novel idea - going on the rhetorical attack instead of waiting around for the other side to define the talking points.

Paragraphs of disagreement and factual explanation, or frank content-free outrage, are not pwnwage.

I like the Prescott Bush idea. Something along those lines would be more likely to work.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (4.00 / 2)

On the upside, I don't follow Bush's logic in attacking Obama. Surely he realizes that 75% of the country hates him, and that attacking Obama naturally leaves that 75% inclined to like Obama more ("Bush bad, thus Obama good") while rallying Democrats.

And it leaves McCain to either be associated with Bush or denounce him.

A plea for relevance maybe?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (none / 1)

Now this is pwnage.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:13:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (none / 1)

totally owned him.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (none / 1)

Indeed. I loves me some Obey.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (none / 0)

The Dem leadership is sitting back, knowing Bush screwed up, under the "When your opponent is hurting himself, shut up" rule. Still, I think hitting back hard could've dealt a lot more damage to Bush and McCain. May bring up Prescott after wondering aloud if "the Boy King is drinking again," or something to that effect.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:36:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prescott Bush (4.00 / 2)

I think that would be a little too on the nose. The trick with rhetoric is to appear as if you're making a serious point - which is so serious it's self-evident, only they never quite thought of it before.

Then leave people to work out the implications for themselves.

It's character assassination without being personal. So calling a war-hero a flip-flopper implies their weakness without calling them weak out front.

I've been trying to find some books about practical rhetoric, and they're really hard to hunt down. There are plenty of tips for salesmen about how to screw over their customers more effectively with psychology, but hardly anything at all about winning debates.

Bush is just being Bush. Lying and being rhetorically insulting are the only things he knows how to do, so he may as well keep doing them. It might distract the peasants from thinking about the economy long enough to win McCain a few more points in the general.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:51:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More Pwnage (4.00 / 3)

I can haz teh Tweeteh?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 08:48:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Pwnage (4.00 / 2)

the significance of that exchange is that the tradmed have been allowing these idiots to get away with this ignornant nonsense for years and now they're calling them on it. No wonder the idiots look surprised and shocked, they've never been called out before and they don't know how to respond.

The thing that nags at me is that they'll now pretend they have the right to call the dems on anything and everything in this new mood of "seriousness". Yet, I strongly believe they have no such right. They have to earn that right by smacking down McCain from now till November. No barbecues, no excusing his re-writing history, no bs. If they don't I think the dems have every right to blow them off, "You don't get to ask me that question till you kick the repugs for 5 years. In your own time.".

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 06:08:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Pwnage (none / 1)

Agreed. I do sense a change in Tweety in recent days and weeks, though. Others at dKos pointed it out, too. I don't know if it's because he's been taking his meds lately, or if it's because he knows he's going to get thrown off MSNBC if his ratings don't start picking up. (They're basically paying him $4m/year to deliver, on a good night, a small fraction of Keith Olbermann's audience, and I don't think Keith makes that much.) For a while, he had been threatening to run as a Dem for Arlen Specter's Senate seat in Pennsylvania, but he seems to have given up on that idea, hopefully having discovered that he probably can't win anything outside Philly.

Or maybe he's doing this to try to get himself an in-road with Dems for the seat. It's Tweety, so who knows?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 10:52:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Pwnage (none / 1)

If that's the case, I hope the Dems tell him to shove off. He's no Limbaugh but he's certainly been carry water for the repugs by allowing them to get away with outrageous stuff for years.

He made Bush flying onto that mission accomplished carrier into some repressed Brokeback Mountain wet dream live on air.

Here's a president who's really nonverbal. He's like Eisenhower. He looks great in a military uniform. He looks great in that cowboy costume he wears when he goes West. I remember him standing at that fence with Colin Powell. Was [that] the best picture in the 2000 campaign

sorry, you don't get to be a Dem after being up Bush's ass like that, even if it was only in your dreams.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 11:35:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Pwnage (none / 1)

Isn't he just being Mr Common Wisdom?

When Bush was being manly and preznitentienal, he was ready to do his patritiotic flagpin-eating duty.

Now that the weapons pods have fallen off the R war machine, he's joining the queue to bayonet the survivors.

It's bizarre by UK standards because we expect people like Paxo to be equal opportunity muggers. So when someone is slithery and sycophantic one year and robustly sneering the next, it looks odd.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Tweety gets his orders from the Executive Suite. So expectations of consistency may be optimistic.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 12:01:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Pwnage (none / 1)

Yes, I always think of Paxman when I think of Tweety, because he's basically Tweety with better suits, less saliva and actual journalistic instincts.

They're both kind of obnoxious. Both like to cut people off, although I think that's more a tactic to throw whomever he's interviewing off balance, in Pax's case, rather than a love of hearing himself talk, as in Tweet's case.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 12:10:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More Pwnage (none / 1)

It's not an issue, because he wouldn't win anyway. For one thing, Democrats are not big fans of Tweety. We clap when he behaves properly, but we wouldn't vote for him. Female Dems, especially, would not be thrilled with him, given some of his past comments. For another, I think most people in Pennsylvania would find Tweety obnoxious even if he had a good platform. He'd get creamed.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 12:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 10)

SATS. The UK national tests for 11 year olds.

The maths one this morning was a pig of a paper. It was the worst any of us have ever seen.

I have spent an hour this morning watching children I've known since they were seven years old, children I've stayed after work to help coach, for whom I've given up lunchtimes for weeks running a drop-in: supposedly to provide help with maths if requested, but more in practice to reassure them that they've worked hard and there's no such thing as a "fail"...today I watched them slump ever more dispiritedly down in their chairs as they turned page after page of questions they just couldn't do.

Language was a big part of it. A huge imbalance towards word-based problems. We can read them the questions, but where English isn't fluent-and to be able to process a problem in another language is a big step up from conversational fluency-that doesn't help as much as people imagine. Nor does the eleven extra minutes the government thinks is enough to redress the balance between fluent and non-fluent English speakers. Frankly, for a floundering child-and there were a lot floundering today-it just prolongs the torture.

Did I mention I despise SATs?

by Sassafras on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:13:03 PM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 6)

My sympathies. It must be so utterly dispiriting to see this. Clowns who've not been in a primary classroom since they were 11 chatting amongst themselves and then pronounding in oblivious ignorance on the best form of education whilst ignoring the expert opinion of those who actually are doing the job.

As NBBooks wrote in the excellent summary of US the wind energy industry;-

By contrast, the management of U.S. auto makers were aggressively hostile toward their workers and suppliers, and scoffed at the notion that workers on the factory floor could offer any meaningful contribution other than their brute, raw, physical labor. One statistic tells it all: U.S. workers at Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors plants in the U.S. submit 0.4 suggestions per worker per year; U.S. workers at Japanese plants in the U.S. submit four times as many, or 1.6 suggestion per worker per year. But each Japanese worker in a Japanese car plant in Japan submits an astonishing 64 suggestions per year. In other words, the Toyota system of production is 160 times more efficient than U.S. mass production at mobilizing the creative powers of human ingenuity at the lowest level of production. Workers may suggest small, incremental changes, but over time and given a large enough number, they can make for impressive results: at the time of the MIT study, Toyota could produce over 50 cars per employee each year, compared to only the 10 or 15 cars produced per each employee per year by U.S. automakers, and Toyota's defect rate was one third that of the U.S.
U.S. automakers have striven mightily to catch up to Japanese levels of efficiency, productivity, and quality, but some two decades later, still lag behind. For over 20 years, U.S. automakers and U.S. industry in general have tried implementing a number of facets of the Toyota "lean production" system, such as just-in-time inventory control and concurrent design and production, but they have stubbornly refused to do anything but give lip service to "valuing their human assets."

Our govt doesn't even do that.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:44:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

That is wrong on so many levels it would take weeks to comprise the list.

Have epistemological model of Complex Information environments. Will Travel.

by ATinNM on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

How depressing and grim.

I'd mention 'abusive control-freakery allied to stratospheric levels of strategic idiocy' again as an explanation, although unfortunately it's not going to be any help at all here.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Thanks, everyone.

I'm going to get an early night. By tomorrow lunchtime, it will all be over...

by Sassafras on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:04:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

Word-based problems in mathematics are a good thing, except that possibly at the primary school level the focus should be on basic numeracy as opposed to the sophistication necessary to translate a text into numbers.

I am willing to believe that SATs are a bad thing.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Oh, I'm not against word problems, as such. They're an essential part of numeracy-if you can't choose operations to solve a real-life problem then, for most people, what is maths for?

It's just hard-and counterproductive-to see confidence draining from children for whom they're still a step too far.

by Sassafras on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:21:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For Drew (4.00 / 3)

As Millman pointed out in yesterday's OT.

Is American beer any good ?

I doubt it will surprise any of you that I've tried more than half of those pictured. I'm a big fan of Rogue ale.

C'mon Drew, if you tried it, you'd like it !!!!

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 12:50:12 PM EST

Re: For Drew (none / 0)

It looks like they've got some interesting stuff. I can't seem to find out where to buy it. Or can you order directly from them?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Drew (none / 0)

This event is this weekend. That page has four places listed.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:40:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Drew (none / 0)

And this site has some more liquor stores in DC that stock craft beer.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:41:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For Drew (none / 1)

Rogue is pretty easy to find across the US. Figure out what local liquor stores have a good microbrew selection and check it out.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

High-Speed blogging (4.00 / 4)

Hi!
Blogging from the TGV at 300km/h

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 01:59:17 PM EST

Re: High-Speed blogging (4.00 / 5)

<whoosh!> That's why it's

s-o-o-o-o

sh-o-o-ort

<whoosh!>

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High-Speed blogging (4.00 / 4)

That's why it's s-o-o-o-o sh-o-o-ort

No, it's because the train is so fast that I was arrived before I finished typing the comment...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ET meta (4.00 / 6)

I've been thinking about what has been discussed about the evolution of ET. I have not added my two bits to the discourse because I am not certain to what it would add. (My connection to Europe is more ideological than physical.)

My concern is that as ET moves to whatever the next model is decided upon, commentators on the periphery, such as myself, will become more marginalized.

I advocate the next iteration ET keep equality as a core value and promote the democratization of ideas. I see a risk toward elitism at the exclusion of unsolicited newcomers and commentators on the edge like myself.

by Magnifico on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:23:36 PM EST

Optimistic (4.00 / 5)

Aaah, don't worry. If anything gets decided, it'll never happen anyway.

This place is no more nor less than the aggregation of those who turn up. If you keep coming, all change will reflect you.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:36:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Seconded (4.00 / 5)

I think this is a very valid concern, and shared by more than one of us.

I don't know how to express it without making anyone defensive, which I don't want to do, because I do feel that people have the very best intentions. Nor do I want to stand in the way of progress.

For my part, as an American, as someone without specialized fields of knowledge applicable to ET's projects and who largely prefers ET for its salon-type atmosphere (Magnifico's "the democratization of ideas") - I can't see a practical place for my contributions in the ideas which have been discussed. I also respect that ET has no obligations to accomodate any one of us.

Is the age of the blog dead? (rhetorical)

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 02:42:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Places for people (none / 1)

Yes, I think poemless expresses well what I am thinking by being on the periphery.

We're Americans.
We may lack "specialized fields of knowledge applicable to ET's projects".
Where will our contributions go?

Also, I think this is very important to underscore — ET has no obligation to accommodate any one of us.

So, while I think we're not asking to be accommodated, I would still like to be included some how.

by Magnifico on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:02:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Places for people (4.00 / 2)

I'm not American, but part 2 applies to me as well, indeed to the overwhelming majority of people who post here. If the concept is enacted as you fear, it won't just be Americans displaced. I and most of the others'll be out on the street as well.

I simply don't believe that's the intention. I remain confident that they will not destroy the village in order to save it and so when all is said and done this place will be around much as we know it now.

Besides which, right now McCain is talking about being out of Iraq by 2013. Talk's easy.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seconded (none / 1)

No, the age of the blog isn't dead - anything else should be a spinoff, not a transformation of the blog into something else.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:35:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 3)

I don't think that it's all that likely that ET will change in a way that would exclude you or anyone else.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 2)

Actually, I'll pretty much guarantee that it won't. Unless Jérôme decides otherwise.

There may be other associated projects that might be more exclusive, but the core blog isn't going anywhere.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:24:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh I agree (4.00 / 7)

The last thing I would want to do is to damage what already exists.

I have the hope that we'll be able to, in addition find a way to turn its potential into something that is heard in the wider world - and heard as the collective voice(s) it is.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (none / 1)

I don't know why you would have that concern, except that one of the enhancements being discussed is the development of a multilingual capability. Other than that I would have thought the focus was on broadening ET's membership and appeal. I what sense do you feel marginalised?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 2)

Multilingual capability is not much of a worry to me. My only caveat with that would be that by posting here, I would now have the ability to annoy or anger more people in many, more languages.

Perhaps my feelings of marginalization come from being on the Pacific coast of the U.S. and not in Europe. How would people fit in with the ET think tank concept, for example? With paid ET staff, would those positions be open to non-Europeans?

by Magnifico on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 6)

There's two American FPs. One lives in the pacific NW, the other in Africa.

I think it's quality of input rather than geography or cultural background that matters.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 2)

Those are the active ones - then there's one "on leave" who lives in Switzerland, four alumni FPers who are also American and one "honorary" FPer who is British-born but has lived in North America her whole life. Plus at least 1/2 of the registered users are American.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:34:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (none / 0)

I think one of those american alumni blotted her copy book, if last nights discussion is anything to go by.

I wondered where she'd gone after leaving booman.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:42:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (none / 1)

I know we are talking about trying to obtain EU finding for ET 2.0, but that doesn't mean we will become a more eurocentric blog. For one thing - good EU-US dialogue is essential for both polities - and its is one of ET''s strengths that there is such an active contribution from our US brethren/sisters here. I also don't think we are at the point of discussing paid staff as such - merely funding a very specific development project for 2009. We don't even have any ideas about an ongoing revenue stream at the moment, never mind an actual proposal.

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (none / 0)

PS - the Brits don't think they are in Europe either!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:18:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 3)

If it came down to it, this brit is european before anglo. I suspect that's true of most of us here.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:22:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 3)

Wash your mouth out with soap young man.

As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (none / 1)

I really like the young man bit....

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ET meta (4.00 / 2)

it just doesn't have the sternness without it.

As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mmmmmmhhhhhh??!! (4.00 / 2)

Maybe, I should consider going on a holiday next months, as I live near one of the Euro 2008 statiums.

Online Calls Increase for Terrorist Attacks at Euro 2008 | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 15.05.2008

Swiss authorities are reportedly taking seriously al Qaeda Internet appeals for attacks to be launched against the Euro 2008 soccer championships. Switzerland and Austria are hosting the tournament in June.
The number of incendiary messages on two Web sites favored by the terrorist group has proliferated in recent weeks, according to a senior Swiss security official.
"We are on alert and we are following these jihad forums very closely. It is through these that Bin Laden's agents awaken dormant cells. The situation is serious even if it is frustrated people hiding behind these sites," the official told Switzerland's La Liberte newspaper. "We are taking these threats seriously," he said.
One of the sites said: "Let's transform the two most secure countries in Europe into hell, like the hell in Iraq and Afghanistan," according to the official. Another message said: "The hour has come for fighters of the faith they must make themselves heard."

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:42:59 PM EST

Re: Mmmmmmhhhhhh??!! (4.00 / 2)

Just avoid the crowds. They won't be interested in places like yours.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:01:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mmmmmmhhhhhh??!! (none / 0)

wots wrong with Fran's place?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:12:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mmmmmmhhhhhh??!! (none / 1)

I thought Al Qaeda didn't announce attacks ahead of time...

The picture suggests that Al Qaeda prefers Macs. Is that really true?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:57:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

the darn latch went on my old polo, so the fumes were coming in, and i had to drive all the way to perugia, then the next day to cortona, was keeping it together, then yesterday there was a jackhammer going all day at home, today was a long headache...

on the good side i located a worm farm an hour from here, and on saturday i'm going with a friend to pick up castings and some babies to start breeding the little darlins.

sourced a stables willing to give away mountains of horseshit and litter about ten miles away, and a friend with a big trailer to get it here.

and best of all sourced 5 different types of edible bamboo, and am planning to drive up to genoa to score some young plants.

woo hoo.

now if only this feeling someone's blowing up an airbag behind my right eye would go away...

Lobbyists are people too...

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:49:38 PM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Oooh, you have my sympathy there. I have, in my time, driven a car with a broken exhaust for a couple of hundred miles. It was like sticking your head in a combine harveter engine. Ugg, it took an hour long soak in a bath to get rid of that. I recommend similar. Lotsa hot water and perfume, candles, relax.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope you are not having (none / 1)

'cefalea', or 'cluster headache', because it is unbearable.

Wikipedia has a lot on 'trigeminal nerve neuralgia', etc. although the docs only give pills, expensive nasal sprays and tell you that they will go away in 6 weeks to a few months.

_Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena._

by metavision on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are not having (none / 1)

hi metavision, thanks for your concern.

thank the spaghetti monster, no.

my mum had those, she'd crunch down a whole tube of veganin in a day, and still have to lay moaning in the dark for a couple of days, god forbid we might turn on the radio. shhhh!

my headache has finally passed on, 2 cephyls later...

anyone else here discovered cephyl? half homeopathic, half aspirin.

the only industrial medicine i ever have to take, and it's pretty rare at that.

it's that jackhammer wot done it, plus the fumes...

then i had to do some tractor work this am.

it's gone....but i still feel a bit fragile...tomorrow i'll be fine.

Lobbyists are people too...

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 07:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

"blowing up an airbag behind my right eye"

I hate to say this, but if the feeling persists or recurs, I would suggest visiting a neurologist to guard against a cerebral aneurysm.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 08:36:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

nah, it was just sinuses protesting the insult, all better now. vit c, melatonin, some tiger balm on the temples, rose water on my pillow, feel great this morning...

thanks anyway

Lobbyists are people too...

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri May 16th, 2008 at 03:11:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

let's speak plainly, mr bernanke (4.00 / 4)

sounds like the title of a play...

Jesse's Café Américain

Financial Relativisim: Fraud by Any Other Name....

Let's speak plainly for once, Chairman Bernanke.

The US financial system degenerated under the collateralized debt origination model in which super-compensated bankers and brokers used unreliable mathematical models to create complex and opaque packages of dubious quality debt which they sold to most of the major institutions in the world.

Our words to be sure, but a paraphrase of Paul Volcker's testimony to Congress yesterday, as he deviated from his prepared text.'

More simply put, it is a Ponzi scheme.

Now that the game is collapsing, the bankers that gained enormous, fantastic wealth while it was running are now looking for their shareholders, the public, and in many cases their victims to bear the losses and repair the financial system and the banks themselves while they safely hold their personal gains.

All up and down the line, from the loan originators to the bankers who created the bundles to the broker salespeople to the regulators and the Fed, everyone turned a 'blind eye' to the fraud as it occurred.

The banks were central to the scheme from the inception as they spent years and many hundreds of millions of dollars to overturn Glass-Steagall to allow this coup de grace to be delivered to all holders of US dollars.

Have they at long last no shame? Is there no segment of US society that they have not corrupted?

and quite the play it was, as chris put it Grand Heist IV, yeah...

how to loot the treasury of the richest country in the world, in 7 years 101

mission accomplished

deal with the blowback, someone, will you?

Lobbyists are people too...

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 03:55:20 PM EST

Re: let's speak plainly, mr bernanke (none / 0)

Hey, am I late? Can I have a bit of the action? Darn. Dem Amurkan sheisters have been there before me...

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

We packed the whole circus (two dogs and baby) in the car, together with a big pile of cameras and a picnic and headed up to the mountains for the afternoon. Home via a stop in town to drop film into the lab and get some dinner. Pleasant.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:13:21 PM EST

Just for a boner (4.00 / 2)

I bought my eldest daughter an Olympus E-510 today for her white hat celebration at the end of the month. It was a good deal with two zooms and 2 giga memory. I was tempted to keep it myself ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just for a boner (4.00 / 2)

The more I think about it, the more I feel a trip to Lyon would bring happiness ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just for a boner (none / 1)

I would be delighted to welcome you, my friend! I can provide accomodation, too. Just avoid coming to Lyon between July 18 and August 14, cause I will be away...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:11:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just for a boner (none / 1)

my daughter has lined up a bevy of French speaking acolytes for your daugheters

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just for a boner (none / 1)

Bring 'em on

But hey, wait a minute - give me a run down on your family again.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:24:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just for a boner (none / 0)

I was talking to Melanchthon....

You keep away from my daughters!

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just for a boner (none / 0)

Frank - we have very little influence over our daughters. I like to think that some very small part of my Bohemian philosophy has transcended the generation gap, but it is mere wishful thinking. Basically we are the subjects of manipulation, as fathers. I listened today to the lyrics my youngest wrote for a demo for a record company we are about to sígn (and I say we, because she does not yet have majority), and I thought Jesu H- Christ, I wish I'd said this.

ET members will be the first with the download. But just remember I am a manipulative son of a bitch.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:58:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mountains ???? (none / 1)

And if you had more moles, no doubt you'd have a whole mountain range.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 1)

Oh, I think that there are a couple of mountains there, technically speaking, they're just not very impressive ones. Nice though.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:25:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 0)

You denigrating my wickla hills?

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:33:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 1)

I did consider dropping in for a cup of tea.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 1)

you would have been welcome

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:00:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 0)

dogs, baby, Sam and all.... just spare me the server side stuff - I ain't a techie

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 1)

Define mountain...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 1)

Wiki has this British definition, which probably extends to Ireland

In England and Wales the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has defined "mountain" (as a mass noun) as all land over 600 metres for the purposes of right to roam legislation. This is a close metric equivalent of 2,000 feet (610 m).[5] The Land Reform (Scotland) Act 2003 does not appear to draw this distinction, and in Scotland the term "mountain" is more subjective, often being used for hills exceeding 3,000 feet (914.4 m) listed as Munros. In the United Kingdom the term "hill" is commonly used for all hills and mountains, regardless of height.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mountains ???? (none / 0)

The Dublin hills close to your old haunts don't count. You have to enter Wickla for the real thing...

"It's a mystery to me - the game commences, For the usual fee - plus expenses, Confidential information - it's in my diary..."

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

Where it really got silly:

Cleo's making a good recovery from her spinal surgery, but she can't keep up in town, so she had to be carried.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:22:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I can't imagine anything more caninely embarrassing than being carried in a branded bag. Look at the face.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

I know. We bought them originally for use on trains, which she doesn't mind so much. She wasn't happy about it: how can she roll at the feet of strangers and demand worship if she's in a bag?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:30:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I am not sure that it is appropriate to discuss marital problems at this site ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:43:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | California lifts gay marriage ban

California's top court has ruled that a state law banning marriage between same-sex couples is unconstitutional.
The state's Supreme Court said the "right to form a family relationship" applied to all Californians regardless of sexuality.
The ban was approved by voters in 2000 but challenged by gay rights activists and the city of San Francisco.

As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:22:44 PM EST

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Damn right. As the Massechusetts supreme court already decided

The court found that Massachusetts may not "deny the protections, benefits and obligations conferred by civil marriage to two individuals of the same sex who wish to marry" because of a clause in the state's constitution that forbids "the creation of second-class citizens

I simply fail to understand why that doesn't apply to all states. A marriage ban should be unconstitutional everywhere becasue all Americans are equal before the law.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 04:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

You're joking, right? It took us -- what, almost a hundred years after the end of slavery to finally agree at the national level, "Uh, guys, we weren't kidding about the whole 'Negroes are Equal' thing, bokay?"

We'll get equal rights for same-sex couples at the national level eventually, and I think it's probably sooner than we sometimes would guess.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)

i think its just surprise that there's not a similar clause in every states constitution.

As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:37:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

The states write their own constitutions, so they can say whatever they want. But it shouldn't matter. Anybody who isn't a religious nut should recognize that equal justice under the law granted at the federal level trumps state constitutions under the supremacy clause.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 05:42:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0)

If the state amended its consitution to once again ban same-sex marriage, LGBT could appeal to the Supreme Court to find the amendments in violation of the federal equal protection. But it isn't certain that they would win the appeal, or even be heard.

Member of the Anti-Fabulousness League since 1987.

by Ephemera on Thu May 15th, 2008 at 06:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 1)