European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date

by Migeru
Fri May 23rd, 2008 at 06:49:56 PM EST

This is a follow-up on my previous Central-Eastern Europe Meetup diary. Though I cannot be certain right now, the odds are that I will be travelling around the Czech Republic with Barbara for 10 days the second week of August, and I thought of organizing a Central-Eastern Europe meetup mostly as an exercise in non-Frenchness and non-Westernness. It looks like August 16 would be the best date, but at this point I'm not yet excluding August 9. People who have shown interest include:

nanne
Fran
DoDo
InWales
Helen
Metatone
Barbara
Migeru
Sven Triloqvist
Jerome a Paris
Crazy Horse

So this still looks like a delocalised British ET meetup... Where are all the Austria- and Czech-based ETers?

Just to make a decision on the date, please answer the poll and post a comment so we know who might be coming...

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Poll

Votes: 9
Results	\|	Other Polls

Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date | 43 comments (43 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

For me the 16th is better, then I can stay until Monday. I will have to fly to Prag on Saturday morning, as I am working Friday night, but should have a direct flight were I arrive approx. at 9:00 am. I have never been to Prague and would love to have some time to enjoy it.

Can we find a Hotel, were it might be possible to stay with most of the group?

I would appreciate some help with finding a hotel?

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 03:18:44 AM EST

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

It is a good idea to get everyone in the same hotel, but I think it's best if we leave travel arrangements for the next diary a couple of weeks from now, when we have picked a date, so hold the thought!

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 03:57:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

Either works for me at the moment. Anyone have views on why we have lower readership in Central Europe? DoDo?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 03:41:19 AM EST

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

I would put it down mainly to language fluency. From the Eurobarometer Europeans and their languages (PDF), the number of people who self-describe as being able to hold a conversation in English is: (former Austria-Hungary bolded)

Belgium: 59% of 10.6M = 6.3M
Czechia: 24% of 10.3M = 2.5M
Denmark: 86% of 5.5M = 4.7M
Germany: 56% of 82M = 46M
Estonia: 46% of 1.34M = 0.62M
France: 36% of 64M = 23M
Greece: 48% of 11.1M = 5.3M
Spain: 27% of 45M = 12M
Ireland: N/A (100% ?) of 4.2M = 4.2M
Italy: 29% of 59M = 17M
Cyprus: 76% of 0.77M = 0.58M
Latvia: 36% of 2.3M = 0.83M
Lithuania: 32% of 3.4M = 1.09M
Luxembourg: 60% of 0.48M = 0.29M
Hungary: 23% of 10.1M = 2.3M
Malta: 88% of 0.40M = 0.35M
Netherlands: 87% of 16M = 13.9M
Austria: 58% of 8.3M = 4.8M
Poland: 29% of 38M = 11M
Portugal: 32% of 10.6M = 3.4M
Slovenia: 57% of 2.0M = 1.14M
Slovakia: 32% of 5.4M = 1.73M
Finland: 63% of 5.3M = 3.3M
Sweden: 89% of 9.1M = 8.1M
UK: N/A (100% ?) of 61M = 61M
Bulgaria: 23% of 7.7M = 1.77M
Croatia: 49% of 4.5M = 2.2M
Romania: 29% of 22M = 6.4
Turkey: 17% of 71M = 12.1M

I observed a while ago that the number of active ETers is of the order of one per million English speakers, so you would expect two Czechs, two Hungarians, five Austrians, one Slovene, two Slovaks, and two Croats.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 04:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

And 12 Spaniards ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 04:50:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (4.00 / 2)

We're provincial like that.

But also, the total is about 256 which is a bit large for an "active user" count. We really have only 4: metavision, kcurie, kukute and perclupi as this is about residence, not nationality.

Anyway, 1/4 of this is made up by UK + Ireland, which probably explains the Anglo bias in the site content that Fran was compaining about recently.

Also, there is a network effect where you need more than one person to have a dialogue and at least three for a conversation. If there's only one person who knows about a given country, they can post "informative" content but there will be little debate around it.

From the figures I gave we have Sargon (who is Russian!) for CZ, Almanax and Generic for AT, DoDo for HU, and nobody for SK, SI or HR. Nanne (DE) and Fran (CH) are interested, plus 5 British residents.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 04:59:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

There's also jv from CZ, but he's less active than Sargon.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:06:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (4.00 / 5)

While I do read eurotrib almost daily I know I should do something about posting too. ;-)

I agree with you here - While I could post some, as you say, "informative" posts about what happens in this corner of the EU, as the coverage of CZ in the global/european media is virtually non-existent, it's sort of the lack of debate around it/perceived lack of interest that's slightly putting me off (and a cough little bit of laziness), not to forget the fact I sadly don't pay that much attention to local politics as I should have.

But the more important thing I've been wondering about is how to frame such posts.

The language disconnect between the global and local media leads to 'theme/issue' disconnect - ie. issuess which are hotly debated here are often ignored here and what is pushed as important here may be of no interest to people outside of the CZ (like corruption of cabinet members, etc).
It does not help much that most of the foreign news is coming via state-run news agency (similar to the current outcry in the US that virtually all of the foreign news is just rehashed AP/Reuters). But even the coverage of the European parliament (and hence no local opinions one could report/translate/summarize).

Sometimes there are issues which could be certainly of interest - the US radar site, recent recognition of Kosovo - which Klaus considers shameful, the healthcare deform (the ruling coalition wants to introduce "managed healthcare" as seen in the US(!)).

But I promise I will try to think about it a little bit more ;-)

by jv (euro@junkie.cz) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 08:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

There's another for HU, but I don't know if he is sticking around.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 07:52:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

And 11 Poles?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

Maybe it would be good, for some of Central European lurkers, to know and who are reluctant to join because of language that some of the people being at the meeting, also speak German and/or French, and some of course Hungarian and I think also Polish - so it does not depend on speaking English well only. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:02:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

But unless the site becomes bilingual English/German the user numbers for Central and Eastern Europe just won't pick up.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:04:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

And since our aim is pan-European debate, what can we do?

The side by side translation capability is one excellent solution. But is it enough? How do the one in a million find themselves here in the first place? And what makes them stay past the 2 seconds of splash page time?

I still believe that we need a statement of intent on the splash page that makes a 'promise' to potential new member - even if the promise is as vague as seems inevitable after our numerous discussions.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:38:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

Pan-European debate? We're building the as-yet non-existing pan-European public sphere.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:49:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

I should have said 'conversation' ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 07:31:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (4.00 / 3)

And 17 Italians? Where are they? For that matter, my experience in the past makes me doubt that 29% figure. I suspect that in some countries people are more generous about self-describing their fluency in English...

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 11:56:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

In addition to language, there's that a good chunk of the pro-Europeans among the English-speakers is either neoliberal, or inward-looking with a very superficial view on European matters.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 07:56:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (4.00 / 2)

Now, isn't that a nice building?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:01:19 AM EST

Architectual Criticism by a Grump (O/T) (4.00 / 3)

(O/T but Migeru started it)

Auntie Em! Auntie Em!
It's a twister! It's a twister!

Now, isn't that a nice building?

No.

Round rooms are a major pain to live in; your furniture doesn't fit and there is a lot of wasted space.

At street level it looks like any other International Style mind-numblingly boring cityscape infesting POS. That veranda is too tall and narrow to actually protect Pedestrians from inclement weather. The ground level windows will blind pedestrians at certain times during the day as they foolishly try to walk on the sidewalk or cross the street.

What's with the junk on the roof and that doo-hickey sticking out the side? What do they have to do with anything?

That twisty part is the architect saying, "Look at ME! Aren't I clever?!?"

Bah, humbug -- grump, grump, grump

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bork! Bork! Bork!

by ATinNM on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 06:34:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Architectual Criticism by a Grump (O/T) (none / 1)

LOL

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 07:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Prague ET meetup (none / 1)

It is 40 years since I was in Prague - so the idea appeals. And it would be my first ET meet.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 05:41:25 AM EST

Re: Prague ET meetup (none / 0)

Too early to tell, but the idea also appeals to me. Then again, if nanne and metatone are also there, we might have a wee dram of more than bier. Initiation night for the Illuminated Brethern und Schwestern of Caol Ila?

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 10:33:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't do Aug 16 (none / 0)

but I might be able to do Aug. 9 (not with a strong probability, so don't change everything for me).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 06:19:17 AM EST

Re: I can't do Aug 16 (none / 0)

Did you vote in the poll?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 24th, 2008 at 06:21:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (4.00 / 3)

I can do the 16th. I've decided to go anyway and start off my summer holidays with maybe 3 days in Prague before I move onto France and Italy to visit family.

As yet I have no idea about travel arrangements, so if anyone knows of good ways to use trains to travel between Prague, Toulouse and Pisa I'd be happy to consider that.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 08:55:45 AM EST

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

You probably want to to Prague - Linz - Innsbruck - Florence - Pisa - Genoa - Nice - Narbonne - Carcassonne - Toulouse.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 09:07:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

I'd love to do that but I think I need to do Prague - Toulouse - Pisa in that order since my Dad isn't available that first week. I wrote a note for myself somewhere but still need to finish unpacking from a week away so I haven't come across it yet.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 10:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

Then probably either Prague - Dresden - Strasbourg - Lyon - Toulouse though you can do Prague - Linz - Geneva - Lyon - instead...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 11:06:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (4.00 / 2)

The latter would be better I guess, Strasbourg-Lyon is a bit of a side thought in French train... The quickest way for that trip being probably via Paris nowadays.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 11:21:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

According to Deutsche Bahn you can't do that trip in less than 20h and the one with the least changes is Prague - Berlin - Paris - Toulouse, with a night train on the Berlin - Paris leg.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 11:31:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

There's also: night train to Mannheim, ICE to Paris, TGV to Toulouse. Still only 1.5 hours shorter, tho'.

But let's talk about travel arrangements in a later diary. (But let's do so at least one month before the event, I have to reserve my railwayman free tickets to Praha until then.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun May 25th, 2008 at 01:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

Hmmm... I can still get the trip for 58 EUR now. Probably also in a month. But one month in advance might be trickier.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 04:24:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

Should we discuss travel and accommodation in the next diary two weekends from now?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 04:47:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

Yes, that's good.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 04:57:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

If you split the trip in two parts you could cut the total travel time to 17 1/2 hours -- 12:15 to Paris and then 5:15 to Toulouse, with 2 transfers on the first leg and 0 on the second. So In Wales, you should seriously consider making a stop in Paris.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 04:20:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

My rule of thumb is no more than 5h each day unless you take a night train.

So InWales could do Prague-Berlin early, take the night train Berlin-Paris and then a TGV to Toulouse later in the day. Stopping overnight in Berlin and also in Paris would be a possibility, too. That makes for a 4-day trip.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 04:46:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

So is it the weekend of the 16th now? I would appreciate if I could make my travel arrangements now. The earlier I can do it, the less expensive it gets. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 10:54:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

I was thinking of waiting until the Friday after next to post a diary to discuss travel arrangements. Is that too late?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 11:27:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

I think it is getting late for the travel tickets, the more you wait the more expensive it gets. If I know the date I can get the plane ticket. I guess the hotel is not as urgent and can still be discussed in two weeks.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 12:03:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

I thought you were taking a train, like everyone else!

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 12:07:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 0)

I can't because I am have to work Friday night! So I have to fly or not make it to the meet-up.

But I really would appreciate if we could decide on the date.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 27th, 2008 at 09:16:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

How late on Friday night? There is the following night train itinerary:

Basel 21:22 - 22:26 Zurich (InterRegio 593)
Zurich 22:40 - 11:53 Prague (EuroNight 467)

And if you didn't have to work at night you'd have a direct night train, too:

Basel 18:04 - 08:18 Prague (CityNightLine 353)

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 28th, 2008 at 10:55:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date (none / 1)

I'll be there on the 16th, meet-up or not!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon May 26th, 2008 at 11:45:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Prague ET meetup in August - picking a date | 43 comments (43 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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