European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off)

by In Wales
Sat May 31st, 2008 at 09:24:58 AM EST

Rather than hog another OT, I thought I would work out my travel plans in here. I have just decided to delay Italy until Sept/Oct which means that I now have 2 weeks in August to see Prague, go to the meet up (if it is on the 16th) and travel across to Toulouse for a few days before going home from there.

So I ask you for suggestions of one or maybe two places to stop off for a day or two on the way to Paris from Prague since I now have a little more time to play with to be able to get out and see some more of my continental neighbourhood.

Resources suggested include;
http://www.seat61.com
http://www.raileurope.co.uk/

Places to stop suggested in Tuesday's OT include;
Berlin
Frankfurt
Munich

This change means I can now also consider getting the train to Prague and maybe stopping on the way over.

I know nothing about trains in Europe (other than Italy) and don't know how interrail works, especially for booking trains so any advice is welcome.

Cheers!

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In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (4.00 / 2)

Toot toot!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 09:30:42 AM EST

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 0)

Oh, you mean it wasn't decided yet that the meet-up is on the 16th?

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 09:33:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 1)

Judging by the voting on Migeru's diary I think more people can make the 16th than the 9th but I am not sure if there was a definitive yes to the 16th. But I can't do the 9th, and I've wanted to go to Prague anyway so I am going!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 09:43:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 1)

I think it's pretty much decided, given the poll.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 09:44:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 1)

Maybe if you have the time, you could go through Vienna and then Munich. Though I am not sure about the trains.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 09:33:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 1)

InterRail. When I used it in the past, I bought it at the nearest railway station with international traffic, but Britain not having those except for the Eurostar, I'm not sure where everywhere they sell it. However, it's probably much easier now that you can order on-line.

The one for you is probably the 10 travel-days in 22 days global pass, for Ł288 (+10 for post) But it may ber that buying the tickets piecewise would be cheaper: seat reservation, supplement charges for some elevated quality trains (IC/EC/ICE/TGV), sleeper charges aren't included in the pass.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 10:12:46 AM EST

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 0)

Thanks, I think I will see where I intend to stop off and then decide whether interrail or ticket by ticket is the better option.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 10:26:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 0)

I just spent an hour digging up connections for you.

I am using the all-European timetable of the German Railways (the link is to the English-language interface), BTW.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:05:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

London to Prague (4.00 / 3)

I note in advance that we haven't yet agreed on a hour for the meet-up. I will most likely arrive on the day of the meetup at Praha-Holešovice (a station in the North of the city) 12:24.

Suggested possibilities:

(A) Brussels, Berlin

Some Eurostar to Brussels (where you'd look around), last: London St. Pancras 19:34[GMT] - 22:33[CET] Bruxelles-Midi (EUROSTAR 9158)
Bruxelles-Midi 23:41 - 08:13 Berlin Hbf (CityNightLine 243; single ticket prices from €101 for a seat to €265 for deluxe single sleeper cabin)
Berlin Hbf 08:46 - 13:18 Praha-Holešovice (EC 173, normal single ticket €56.80, cheap offer €29.00); or (if you leave Cardiff & walk in Brussels on Thursday, and walk around Berlin on Friday) any later EC - there is one every two hours.

(B) the one-day fast trip via Cologne, Frankfurt, Dresden without sightseeing

London St. Pancras 07:00[GMT] - 10:03[CET] Bruxelles-Midi (EUROSTAR 9110)
Bruxelles-Midi 10:25 - 12:45 Köln Hbf (THALYS 9417, €42.00)
Köln Hbf 12:54 - 13:51 Frankfurt Flughafen Fernbf [airport station] (ICE 507)
Frankfurt Flughafen Fernbf 14:11 - 19:02 Dresden Hbf (ICE 1641)
Dresden Hbf 19:10 - 21:18 Praha-Holešovice (EC 179) (3-5 together: €136.80)

(C) Brussels, Frankfurt

London St. Pancras 07:00[GMT] - 10:03[CET] Bruxelles-Midi (EUROSTAR 9110)
Bruxelles-Midi 11:59 -15:22 15:40 Frankfurt(Main) Hbf (ICE 15, normal price €96.80, cheap offer €59.00)
Frankfurt(Main) Süd 22:19 - 08:18 Praha-Holešovice (CNL 353, normal price for €100.80 for a seat to €253.20 for deluxe single sleeper cabin, cheap offer for first €89.00)

(D) Cologne, Frankfurt

London St. Pancras 07:00[GMT] - 10:03[CET] Bruxelles-Midi (EUROSTAR 9110)
Bruxelles-Midi 10:25 - 12:45 Köln Hbf (THALYS 9417, €42.00; note: the Cologne Cathedral is adjacent to the station)
Köln Hbf 13:53 - 16:13 Frankfurt (IC 2027, normal price €39, cheap offer €29; this train goes via the scenic Rhine valley), or the train two hours later (see (E)3))
Frankfurt(Main) Süd 22:19 - 08:18 Praha-Holešovice (CNL 353, normal price for €100.80 for a seat to €253.20 for deluxe single sleeper cabin, cheap offer for first €89.00)

(E) Brussels, Cologne, Frankfurt

London St. Pancras 07:00[GMT] - 10:03[CET] Bruxelles-Midi (EUROSTAR 9110)
Bruxelles-Midi 11:59 -14:15 Frankfurt(Main) Hbf (ICE 15, normal price €43.30, cheap offer €19.00; note: the Cologne Cathedral is adjacent to the station)
Köln Hbf 15:53 - 18:13 Frankfurt (IC 2329, normal price €39, cheap offer €29; this train goes via the scenic Rhine valley)
Frankfurt(Main) Süd 22:19 - 08:18 Praha-Holešovice (CNL 353, normal price for €100.80 for a seat to €253.20 for deluxe single sleeper cabin, cheap offer for first €89.00)

Of these, I would probably choose (D). The nifty thing is how and when you get to London. You could stay there for a night (so that crossing London won't become a hassle), or if you can stand travelling at crazy hours, there is a night train arriving in Paddington at 05:40 which you could reach from Cardiff in Taunton at 02:48...

Alternatively for (C)-(E), if you start with the first direct morning train:

Cardiff Central 05:15 - 07:32 London Paddington (First Great Western GW620100)
London St. Pancras 09:57[GMT] - 13:21[CET] Bruxelles-Midi (EUROSTAR 9110)

...then you could continue:

(D') Cologne, Frankfurt

Bruxelles-Midi 13:25 - 15:45 Köln Hbf (THALYS 9429, €42.00; note: the Cologne Cathedral is adjacent to the station)
Köln Hbf 17:20 - 18:30 Frankfurt (ICE 127, normal price €61, cheap offer €29), or the next via the Rhine valley (see (E')3))
Frankfurt(Main) Süd 22:19 - 08:18 Praha-Holešovice (CNL 353, normal price for €100.80 for a seat to €253.20 for deluxe single sleeper cabin, cheap offer for first €89.00)

(E') Brussels, Cologne, Frankfurt

Bruxelles-Midi 14:25 - 16:45 Köln Hbf (THALYS 9433, €42.00; note: the Cologne Cathedral is adjacent to the station)
Köln Hbf 17:53 - 20:13 Frankfurt (ICE 1027, normal price €43, cheap offer €29; this train goes via the scenic Rhine valley)
Frankfurt(Main) Süd 22:19 - 08:18 Praha-Holešovice (CNL 353, normal price for €100.80 for a seat to €253.20 for deluxe single sleeper cabin, cheap offer for first €89.00)

Of these, I'd prefer (E').

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:02:33 PM EST

Re: London to Prague (none / 0)

I note in advance that we haven't yet agreed on a hour for the meet-up. I will most likely arrive on the day of the meetup at Praha-Holešovice (a station in the North of the city) 12:24.

The Standard ET Meetup™ starts with a lunch, which we can probably set at 13h.

By the way, does your Holesovice train stop at Hlavni Nadrazi before? You could get off then if it's closer to the meetup location...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:14:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (none / 0)

No. The Budapest-Berlin, Vienna-Berlin through EC trains stop at Holešovice because it is the direct route, bypassing the central station. I will need to take the subway to the meeting. (BTW suggestions welcome as to how subway tickets can be purchased.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:33:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (none / 0)

(I mean stuff like accepted currency/card type and automats.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (none / 0)

Are Sargon or jv actually expected at the meetup?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (4.00 / 2)

Only Czech crowns are accepted. On most metro stations (definitely in Holesovice), there are usually attendants from whom you could buy tickets. There are automatic ticket dispensers, which regretfully take only coins, and if you buy some currency at home, you are unlikely to get coins.

This form will let you search for a public transport connection. There's also a map, with bus/metro/tram stops.

I personally am not sure whether I'll attend - August is my usual time for going to visit parents, and given that as a teacher my vacation is pretty long, I could be away for a bigger part of it.

by Sargon on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 03:24:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (none / 1)

Wow, thanks so much for all of this. I'll take a good look and google the places and see what I like the look of best. Much appreciated!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:19:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Route highlights (none / 1)

I note there aren't just the router end-points. Beautiful stretches, in loose order:

Valley of the Vesdre (after Liège and before Aachen in Belgium)
the narrow part of the Rhine Valley (between Clogne and Frankfurt, most beautiful between Koblenz and Bingen, don't miss the Pfalz)
low mountains betweeen Cologne and Frankfurt (high-speed line goes up and down steeply like a roller coaster)
narrow part of the Elbe Valley (between Dresden and Prague, most beautiful between Pirna and Děčin, don't miss the Bastei and Hřensko [both visible right across the river])
Pfälzerwald mountains (crossed between Mannheim and Saarbrücken, most beautiful between Neustadt and Kaiserslautern)
Mountain of Reims (more a hill, passed by the TGV line before and next to Reims)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 01:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Route highlights (4.00 / 3)

don't miss the Bastei and Hřensko [both visible right across the river]

Actually, I have the photos to demonstrate...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 01:34:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Route highlights (none / 0)

Sorry for the reflections (had no polar filter) and (on the first) the dirty window.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 01:35:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Route highlights (none / 0)

They look gorgeous!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 01:48:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

*groan* (4.00 / 3)

That pun gets real old real quick when you work with rocks for a living...

by Nomad on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 07:24:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (none / 1)

You will note that between Cologne and Frankfurt, I focused on direct connections along the scenic Rhine Valley. I consider that a must-see if you're there. But, if you'd rather hurry, there are a LOT of trains along the parallel high-speed line, that would give you some freedom in schedule. Some of these trains stop at Köln Hbf (the main station just next to the Cologne Cathedral), others just a short walk across the Rhine in Köln-Deutz.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (none / 1)

I always prefer the scenic route!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: London to Prague (none / 1)

<mouth watering>I may be taking that route on the 8th/9th...</mouth watering>

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:59:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 0)

European Tribune - In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off)

I have just decided to delay Italy until Sept/Oct

Can't do Prague. Considering Florence in September though.

Any idea when you'll be around?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:54:11 PM EST

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 0)

Not at the moment - need to check with work. I'll post on here or elsewhere when I have an idea.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat May 31st, 2008 at 12:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (4.00 / 3)

My girlfriend and I took the train to Florence last summer. We bought an interrail pass and eurostar tickets to paris and back to bookend the trip. We originally planned to take the Palantino sleeper train (as seat61 recommends) straight to Florence but it was fully booked for weeks in advance - not one of those trains you can turn up to with your interrail passes and just get on!

Instead we stayed a few more days in Paris, got a little panicked about how to get to Italy and eventually settled on using the TGV and making more stop offs than we had planned, an extra two nights in Paris and one in Milan. Although the eurorail pass is good for just getting on local trains, if you want to make good time with relatively few stopoffs and hotel stays it doesn't actually save much money, as TGV and sleepers have extra fees to pay anyway (it was about 60 euros each way for the two of us on the TGV, on top of our passes)

As soon as we made it into Florence we booked our tickets to return, to make sure we weren't stuck again. Already some of the TGV tickets had sold out for the day we wanted so we had to spend an extra night in Paris again before getting the Eurostar.

The actual TGV experience is amazing, so relaxing and fast that in hindsight getting a eurorrail pass wasn't the best idea for us. It's good if you want to travel every other day or so, going short distances to the next city to see the sights for a day, grab a hotel and then get on another random train to the next stop. If you just want to get to your destination, it's not so good. As it was we had a destination we wanted to get to and it took three days more to get there than we planned, and an extra day on the way back, plus more hotel and booking fees.

If I did it again (and we definitely will) I'd book the exact TGV tickets we wanted as well as the hotel stays, so that we could just turn up and go. I don't actually think it would cost much more that way, either, so long as you booked ahead.

Hope that helps. High speed rail is awesome but the europass is more inclined to send you on slower shorter train routes in my experience, unless you want to spend extra money that'd be better off just booking the TGV trips in the first place.

Enjoy your trip!

by darrkespur on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:41:36 AM EST

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 1)

Thanks for this, really useful to know.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 01:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (4.00 / 2)

On your way to Toulouse, you could make a stop in Lyon. I should be back from New Caledonia on the 16th.

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 04:09:10 PM EST

Re: In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) (none / 1)

Just in case I don't make it, I'll remind you of a valuable diary I did last year.

In Praise of Amber Nektar - Czech it out

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 at 01:59:41 PM EST

In Wales in Europe (Prague Spin off) | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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