Tuesday Open Thread

by In Wales
Tue May 6th, 2008 at 12:35:01 PM EDT

Fill this space with news.
Yours, or anyone else's


Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password

Display:
Oil breaks $122 on forecasts for further rises
By Terry Macalister, The Guardian

Oil prices broke new records today when they passed the $122 a barrel mark, bringing renewed fears of rising costs for consumers and damage to the wider economy.

A new prediction from Goldman Sachs that oil prices could rise to $150 to $200 within two years provided much of the buying impetus on Tuesday, although production problems in northern Iraq and Nigeria plus a further weakening of the dollar against the euro also helped push prices up by $2.

Arjun Murti, an oil analyst at Goldman, said in a research note that prices were in the grip of a "super spike" but one which would ultimately force demand to fall sharply. Tim Evans, a counterpart at Citigroup, predicted prices could as easily fall to $40 a barrel as rise to $200 because supplies were "comfortable".

by Magnifico on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 12:55:56 PM EDT
Don't worry, the leader of the free world (tm) is working on a solution:


"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:02:26 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I almost want to hit the play button in hopes of having a laugh, but I just can't watch him anymore.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:08:13 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I just saw him on TV asking the Burmese junta to allow the US to come in and help with the cyclone.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:09:50 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Help with the cyclone?  That mean he's going to wreck whatever the cyclone left behind?

Should we start a pool on whether his performance will be better or worse than after Katrina?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:22:50 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
omg.  The book I am currently reading is really messing with my head.  It is simply about how the free-market model of the Chicago School requires juntas and economic collapse and natural disasters to enable its implementation.  Shock.  Wait until people are bloody desperate and come in with your plan to bail our their economy.  With just a few little strings attatched.  Sheesh, 3rd world, military junta & cyclone all in one bag?!  It's like Christmas for these people.

Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms.
by poemless on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:32:58 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
The only problem is that this junta is beholden to the PRC, not the US.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:42:12 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
At this point the US itself is pretty beholden to the PRC.  At any rate this is not about the US specifically.  It's about free-market ideology and trans-national corporations.  All very China-friendly.

Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms.
by poemless on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:48:04 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
My friend who is doing ethnological work in southern Burma says that the ones who might be applying the Washington consensus are the opposition party, not necessarily the junta...

The concept that socialisation has to be linked to business relationships is a great victory for business relationships, not for socialisation...
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 06:32:58 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
And you can trace it back before Strauss, to Synarchy.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri May 9th, 2008 at 04:44:08 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I'd remind Burma of Bill Maher's very correct comment:

On your watch, we've lost almost all of our allies, the surplus, four airliners, two trade centers, a piece of the Pentagon and the City of New Orleans. Maybe you're just not lucky. I'm not saying you don't love this country. I'm just wondering how much worse it could be if you were on the other side.


Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:34:39 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I know.  I am at the point where nothing he says or does is funny to me.  It just activates the gag reflex and makes me feel angry and scared, the same way dogs growl and cower when a nasty person enters the room.

Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms.
by poemless on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:12:35 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I hear ya on the gag reflex.  For me, though, the reaction is more like my reaction to someone in a Hummer nearly running me off the road.  "Could someone please pull that crazy &##(%$%&%&$% over?!"

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:18:55 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
This is seditious talk, Drew. You'll catch the attention of Dark Star. In the political expediency business, 'pulling someone over' has a deeper meaning. ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:35:35 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
By Dark Star, I mean the LatoT noitamrofnI ssenerawA program run by the ASN. I am sure they don't use a Reverse Finnish Notation decryption algorithm.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:42:55 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid that all went way over my head.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:44:37 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Just as well ;-9

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:49:19 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Are you sure HP wasn't among the contractors that implemented it ?

The concept that socialisation has to be linked to business relationships is a great victory for business relationships, not for socialisation...
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 06:33:24 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Saucy!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:12:31 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Fair enough. I'd probably feel the same if he was the head of my government.
And it's more bizarre than funny anyway.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:31:52 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
In the meantime in NY:

Since then, the dollar has strengthened -- it closed at $1.55 on Monday -- and some economists believe that, even if it creeps down slightly, the dangers of a precipitous fall, at least against the euro, have subsided.

Economists point out that American policy makers, particularly Ben S. Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, have begun to voice concern about the dollar's fall and its inflationary effect in the United States, where a weak currency has increased the cost of oil and other imports for the American consumer.

These guys are great. The stock market doesn't know where to turn, so everything is fine now.

And that people worry about 'global imbalances' is sure to fix them without changing anything that's been going on for the past 20 years.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:47:47 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
So, now the Swedish foreign minister Carl Bildt (with a past as PM and in the oil industry) mentioned peak oil on his blog. I talked about it with him last fall but was told I couldn't quote him verbatim, but I surely can translate his blog posts:    
   
   
   
119 dollar119 dollar
Nu på morgonen noteras oljepriset till en bit över 119 dollar per fat.

Hade någon nämnt en sådan siffra för några år sedan hade vederbörande knappast setts som riktigt seriös. Att tala om möjligheten av 100 dollar per fat var att antyda rena skräckscenarior.

Att dollarn i dessa dagar inte är vad dollarn var påverkar något, men faktiskt inte så mycket.

Många framtidsprognoser - också de som gäller klimatförändringar - utgår från en ständigt stigande produktion av inte minst olja.

Jag tror att det börjar bli dags att titta på de prognoserna med lite mer kritiska ögon.

Det är kanske så att vi nått den situation där det inte längre kommer att vara möjligt att påtagligt höja produktionen. Större delen av de oljeproducerande länderna har ju redan i dag fallande produktion.

Om så är fallet är det många kalkyler som måste förändras.

Men siffran 119 dollar per fat kan inte undgå att leda till reflektioner.

This morning the price of oil was noted as a bit above 119 dollars per barrel.

If someone had mentioned such a number a few years ago he would hardly have been considered really serious. Talking about the possibility of 100 dollar oil would've been implying scenarios of pure terror.

That the dollar these days isn't what it used to be affects it all somewhat, but actually not that much.

Many prognosises of the future - also those about climate change - assumes a constantly increasing production of for example oil.

I think the time has come to look at those prognosises with a bit more critical eyes.

It is maybe so that we have reached the point were we cannot considerably increase production anymore. Most of the oil producing countries do already have falling production.

If that is the case many calculations will have to change.

But the number 119 dollar per barrel cannot avoid leading to some reflections.


http://carlbildt.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/119-dollar/

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 06:31:25 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
It reached $122.49 thus far. In Euros, it reached €78.6/barrel.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:07:25 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
After a crash course in Jeromonomics, it is interesting to read stories like these, especially the statement by the analysts.
by Ephemera on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:33:28 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Wnet ot the Grand Designs show in london today. For those who've not seen the programme it's a self-build/renovation show that concentrates on people with ambitious or interesting design concepts.

From building a cob house with straw bales in a forest near london to renovating a castle in Tuscany.

There was a brilliant demonstration of eco building with cob and straw bales and I'm dying to have a go. Anyone know where's some cheap land ? I might try it in Bulgaria but I have a sneaky it might be against their building regs. How's the W of Ireland ? Central France looms again.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:20:21 PM EDT
If there are no foundations you don't need planning permission in France.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:43:41 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
But you'd still need to build on land with outline planning pemission, you couldn't just plonk it on agricultural land, could you ? Course amenities permitting (which may be problematic).

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:53:24 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Yeah, there are problems. Agricultural land, you can't build on. But there are people who build in woods, I'm not sure what the status is. If you can get a ruin, you can do pretty much what you like. Getting the amenities to secluded spots costs the earth, though.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:12:35 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Home now. House in chaos, Christopher apparently grumpy at being back: either the architecture isn't to his liking or there aren't enough people to admire him at home.

Now to download pictures and start getting some film developed.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:29:14 PM EDT
It's probably that he's convinced his relatives are those people with the big eyes that they hold up in front of their faces. that flash lights at him.

you've separated him from all of those Japanese relatives he's met in the last few days.

As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:54:58 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Try playing him this.

You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.
by Vagulus on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:15:46 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Perhaps he misses the girls. They miss him.
No admiration, though. They haven't learned that yet, thank god.

Useful talking follows experience, the more the better. Talking that precedes input is known as bullshit.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:41:32 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
dobranoc (but isn't it still early out where you are?)
by MarekNYC on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:46:36 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
I've just spent a couple of hours wandering around with my camera. The light is gorgeous.  I found a very photogenic dandelion.

Photobucket

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:09:07 PM EDT
Very pretty, especially with the green bokeh in the background.

You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.
by Vagulus on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:27:43 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I haven't come across the term bokeh before.  What a great word!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:45:11 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
According to Wikipedia, the word is of recent coinage. I first came across it 2-3 years ago, when I subscribed to a photography mail list. Bit of photo geek parlance, perhaps, but I think it's a useful word.

You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.
by Vagulus on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:36:54 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
BBC:  Sarkozy 'non' to Blair presidency
Nicolas Sarkozy has withdrawn his backing of Tony Blair to become the first president of the European Union, senior sources have told the BBC.

The French president is understood to have changed his mind after meeting German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

We did it!

by IdiotSavant on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:31:52 PM EDT
Yay! If confirmed, that's great news!

(Merkel: Dear Nicolas, if you back Bliar I promise you the six months of French EU presidency will be a nightmare.

Sarko: (twitch) It's all the same extraordinary (contorsion, loosens collar) that the media have to keep on (loosens collar) saying I ever backed Bliar in the first place (facial tic).)

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:39:16 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Well, with the StopBlair! petition, we managed to scare Sarkozy into dropping his support of Tony's candidacy... ;-)))

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 06:13:58 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I note that according to some reports back then, the Bliar candidacy was smoke and mirrors from Sarko, who behind the scenes supported Juncker all along - and pushing him into the limelight too early, Sarko may have prevented Bliar from any top jobs in the EU. (I didn't give too much credit to these reports back then.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:53:16 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I still don't. Too much credit to Sarko for Machiavellian machinations, I think. His policy wizardry in the last year suggests more thought with the little head than with the big one, as my Jamaican friends would say.

Useful talking follows experience, the more the better. Talking that precedes input is known as bullshit.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:46:41 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
Good.  If true, I suspect that's a pretty harsh blow to Blair's chances.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:34:01 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I'm writing a modest 15p paper. And yet getting that bibliography in order took me 3 hours, for only 20 entries... It must have been painful for your Inwales.

Do you guys use bibtex/latex? I just started -- really, as an excuse to make pauses -- and I feel like I'm learning how to walk. Pressing return doesn't quite feel the same anymore.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:29:53 PM EDT
LyX is a fairly painless way to get most of the power of LaTeX.  I've used it in Linux some, and I understand it also runs in Windows.

The blurker formerly known as ignorant bystander.
by budr (budr at hughes net) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:33:43 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I wrote my thesis in LaTeX, but didn't use it since.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:37:42 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Yeah it took forever and I still didn't manage to finish the referencing properly. I got told off for it and it is on my amendments to do list.  I haven't come across bibtex/latex. What have I been missing out on?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:54:53 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
LaTeX is THE way to produce professional quality typeset publications on your PC.  It is not for the faint of heart, however.  It is very much from the old Unix mindset, where you're supposed to be at least as smart as the machine.  LaTeX is actually a comprehensive set of macros designed to, ahem, ease the pain of using TeX, an even more arcane computer typesetting program that is still probably the standard for such works.  This is going back to some of the giants who invented computer science.

The blurker formerly known as ignorant bystander.
by budr (budr at hughes net) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:13:47 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Dare I ask what is wrong with M$ Word? (other than being inherently evil).

Actually I don't know what our papers were written on. I did the text and diagrams and somebody else dealt with formatting it all for submission.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:19:49 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Um, I'm probably not the one to make this case.  I'm not any good at LaTeX or Word either one.  This is what I understand from reading my betters.

CTAN: What are TeX, LaTeX, and friends?

With a word processors your text is places while you type it, referred to as "what you see is what you get." In contrast, TeX is a formatter: it separates the steps of entering the material and placing it on the page.

To see the difference, consider how a typical user of each system might start a new section. In a word processor a typical user might start that section by hitting <Enter> twice to get two lines of vertical space, typing "Section 1.2: New results", clicking to highlight that text, clicking to select a larger type size, clicking to select a new type style, and finally entering two more lines of vertical space. A typical user TeX user will type into a file the line "section{New results}". That is, a word processing user is formatting the text as they enter it, while the TeX user describes the meaning of the text and later TeX will format it.

Beginners like word processing but when they graduate to complex jobs the appeal fades. Word processing a twenty page technical article is hard; for instance, keeping the vertical space between sections uniform is error-prone, and so is making sure that all of the bibliographic entries follow the required format. In particular, very few people have both the knowledge and the eye to correctly lay out equations -- people often say their equations "just don't look right." That is, as a user becomes more experienced and knowledgable the TeX approach of having the typesetting done by the program becomes the better choice. (Some word processors offer as advanced features TeX-like facilities for organizing input text, although few users take advantage of them.)

The input is plain text. TeX's source files are portable to any computing platform. They are compact; for instance, all of the files for my 450 page textbook and 125 page answer supplement fit easily on one floppy disk. And, they integrate with other tools such as search programs.

The output can be anything. As with inputting, TeX's outputting step is separate from its typesetting. The TeX engine's results can be converted to a printer language such as PostScript or to PDF or HTML, or, probably, to whatever will appear in the future. And, the typesetting -- line breaks, etc. -- will be the same no matter where your output appears. (Did you know that word processing output depends on the printer's fonts, so that if you email your work to someone with a different printer then for them the line and page breaks are likely to come out differently?)

As I understand it, changing one or two lines can change the appearance of a paper from AMS standard to pick your favorite glossy magazine standard.

The blurker formerly known as ignorant bystander.

by budr (budr at hughes net) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:06:54 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
The faint of heart can use LyX or TeXmacs or scientific workplace or a number of other GUI frontpages to (La)TeX.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:41:25 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
And I just discovered if you try to open a .tex file under Mac OS X , it opens it in an application called TeXshop which consists of a simple text editor (with syntax highlighting) with an interface to PDFTeX and a PDF viewer, which is all you really need from a TeX GUI.

BTW, pace TBG, TeX is not a programming language, it's a markup language. Anyone who can use HTML tags should be able to use TeX.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:26:57 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
TeX is Turing complete, though, unlike HTML...

The concept that socialisation has to be linked to business relationships is a great victory for business relationships, not for socialisation...
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:37:55 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
That's why HTML had to be augmented with JavaScript :-)

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 06:56:06 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
Somebody must have installed this for you. My Mac OS X (several different versions) came without it, and I had to install TeX myself. The default when I click on a TeX file is to open it in TextEdit.

As for your second comment, I doubt anybody who can use HTML will be able to figure out how to use \expandafter... You comment applies more to LaTeX, than to TeX itself.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 07:04:48 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
It must have come with the MacTeX distribution I installed.

One of the problems I often encounter is that I am not aware of all the programs that a given package will install.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 07:16:19 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
It's THE way if you're an uber-geek and want to produce something for Arxiv with lots of mathy symbols.

The rest of us use InDesign, which is an awful tool because it does fast WYSIWYG layout and makes your job easier rather than harder for 95% of all possible DTP applications.

Every so often someone points to a book and says 'Typeset entirely in LaTeX!' and then you ask them how long it took and the answer always seems to be measured in significant fractions of a lifetime - especially when you include how long it took to learn in the first place.

Aside from being free and good for mathy symbols, LaTeX really has very little to recommend it if you want to get a big job done in a reasonable time scale and want to include little extras like colour profiles, soft proofing, and good text flow around objects.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:48:07 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I guess I'm not geek enough!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:04:15 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Me neither. I was over at a local printshop today checking on a DTP project.

Looks great. Couldn't have been done in LaTeX.

I also got to see some giant print presses. 8500 sheets a minute - running at close to its slowest speed.

Huge ink vats in bright colours. Six foot high stacks of pre-cut large format paper. A console out of Star Trek showing colour values and calibration settings across the surface of the document.

Cool. It's not a job I'd ever want to do, but it was fun to watch. :)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:23:39 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
My father, before he retired, travelled the world, assembling and installing those machines, so I know the fun of watching and listening to those machines. The major foreign installations he did during the late 90's were the machines for the Amity press, which have printed something like 50 million bibles for Christians in China.

As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:33:02 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
What do you mean you couldn't have done it in LaTeX? With LaTeX you can embed arbitrary PostScript in your document.

Oh, wait, PostScript is a programming language.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 06:06:12 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I mean I couldn't have done colour proofing, good text flow around objects, speedy WYSIWYG, decent RGB to CMYK colour conversion, high quality drop shadows, and other essentials.

There's a lot more to commercial DTP than PostScript, which is 80s technology and doesn't include features that are standard in PDF and XML. And the next part of the project is putting together a PHP front end for a website which will dump XML content into InDesign templates automatically, so that when we do this all again next year all of the content will be collected in a single database and copied onto tagged spreads in a single pass.

I'll do code if it makes life simpler, but I object to pissing about with it when there are simpler and faster tools available, or if its main appeal seems to be as a tribal marker for the cool kids. There's a lot of the latter around Open Source, and very little of it can hold its own against standard issue features in commercial software.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:00:48 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I think there is another reason to use Latex...

It follows the line of this.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:32:41 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Sure. Linux is a playpen for people who enjoy coding. LaTeX is a playpen for people who enjoy coding. Open Source software is mostly a playpen for people who enjoy coding.

That's fine, but sometimes you have a job to do, and coding isn't any part of that job.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:48:10 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I want to be as cool as you when I grow up.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:53:47 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
As I said, I'm student procrastinating before writing his first master-level research paper.

But at the end, there are no reasons why we shouldn't strive to get the most fun in work, right? i'm sure that there are ways you do your job that you chose because they were more fun than some others.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:54:30 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I used to have a day job coding.

Now I don't any more. I think both of us prefer it that way.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 06:51:13 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I'd like to find out. But it seems that i get to meetups about a month too late on average.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:43:41 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Linux zealots are less connected to reality than Apple zealots who think they buy the hardware for performance rather than for the status.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:36:52 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I never quite got the whole "Apple has awesome hardware" thing.  It's the same stuff in every other machine, isn't it?  The software is where it shines for me.

Can someone explain the hardware thing?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:41:50 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Because Apple controls the hardware, they only have to design their software for the hardware they release to the market, versus the nearly infinite number of hardware combinations windows has to account for. There is some truth to this, but it ultimately comes down to how well any given computer design has been tested by the manufacturer (which determines the robustness of the device drivers) before it leaves the floor.

XP was the first version of windows to offer comparable performance to mac's OS offerings of the same era in this category. Vista has been a huge step back because they crippled it with what I refer to as sociopathic levels of DRM (which goes all the way down into the hardware level - we're not just talking encrypted media here).

Before I spark a mac/pc war, I'll note that only a subset of mac fans are deluding themselves - there are certainly legit reasons to go for mac products.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:55:14 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I didn't know about this. It explains a big part of the hype..

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:42:33 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Frequently it's even the same hardware, created in the same factories in Taiwan. And several of the major apps that used to be created on Apple hardware are now created on windows hardware then converted.

That's not to say it doesn't look good and perform well, but they all have problems and there's no perfect platform.

As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:57:32 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
The hardware looks nice. That's probably the main appeal.

Performance is so-so. I've been using Macs for about a year and a half now, and a bunch of stuff either doesn't work, works weirdly, or works in ways which are distracting and unproductive.

OS X seems more stable than XP, in that you can leave it running for days on end. But Mac Mailer crashes reliably, and I have a weird Firefox bug which only appears on dKos and suddenly slams the processor load up to 100% across both cores.

We had true pre-emptive multitasking back in the 80s on both Amigas and STs, and between Linux, M$ and Apple not much has changed in terms of core OS features or cool new tools.

I'm bemused by Linux - it's yet another reincarnation of Unix, which makes it pure computing nostalgia. I'd love to see some cool new stuff happening, but we seem to have reached a plateau for applications where nothing much is changing - the web-based stuff seems to be spinning its wheels for now as well.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:17:54 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Linux zealots are less connected to reality because they hold which false argument?

I'm not a linux zealot, not am i even knowledgeable in linux, so I won't carry this conversation too far... Sry.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:41:38 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
TBG's comment is accurate. Average people do not use linux "for fun."

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:20:37 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
more

MillMan:

Average people do not use linux


As we journey through life, we should keep an iron grip, to the very end, on the capacity for silliness. It preserves the soul from dessication.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 01:43:30 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
Since I am not a student I simply don't have the time to properly maintain a linux box, which is probably why I switched from Debian to (K)ubuntu.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 02:46:15 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
You mean, average Linux users don't use it for fun?

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 06:39:50 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
People use Linux as long as it's fun to do so.

To be honest, I still find Windows less fun than Linux. Mac OS X seems like fun so far, but that's a descendant of BSD Unix, and it is Open Source, too.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 06:45:06 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
I quite agree. I enjoyed you pun in your reply to ceeebs as well.

I can't really understand how far open source Mac OS X is. Most of what shows up on screen is screen is still apple proprietary.

Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine

by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 10:20:31 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
I use ubuntu to escape the corporate desktop and for a more streamlined experience. Fun...I don't know, I think of computer fun as youtube and video games - ie, not the OS.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed May 7th, 2008 at 11:36:27 AM EDT
[ Parent ]
Oh, and I forgot to mention, BibTex is a similar program to produce those beautiful bibliographies at the back of the book.

The blurker formerly known as ignorant bystander.
by budr (budr at hughes net) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:23:46 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I didn't need that for my thesis but I guess we used one of those or similar for producing our papers.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:26:36 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
It's hot here today.  Just had lunch, and I'm ready to fall asleep, so I'm hoping a solid caffeine and nicotine fix can rescue me.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 01:50:23 PM EDT
So, anyone seen an exit poll yet?  

I must say, it's great this thing has gone all the way to Indiana.  Because a significant part of Indiana is in the Chicago television market, so we have the commercials.  I was watching TV last night and kept seeing these Obama adds and thought, why is Obama spending his money on us?  This is his base.  How weird...  Then it hit me: Indiana.  For a fleeting moment I knew what it felt like to live somewhere these candidates actually campaign in.  Was eerie...

Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms.

by poemless on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 02:39:13 PM EDT
You should've seen it in Virginia.  NoVa was a friggin' madhouse.  We had Obama right up the street in Alexandria, and Hillary was just out west in Manassas.

Ron Paul, of course, still won the competition for most signs.  Couldn't walk three feet without tripping over one.

Exit polls won't hit until the polls close, and they won't be worth much anyway.  Nobody seems to consistently get good leaks of them.  Expect Clinton to outperform the IN one, and Obama to outperform the NC one, if the history of exits this year by region is any guide.

My predictions...

NC
Obama 56%
Clinton 44%

IN
Clinton 54%
Obama 46%

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 02:49:37 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
So how long do you think until this ever more underwhelming primary season leads to a conclusion?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:35:05 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Florida and Michigan won't be settled until the DNC meets on the 31st.  Unless someone sweeps both primaries today, it'll probably be June before anyone concedes.

Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms.
by poemless on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:40:58 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
JUNE!?!?!? Yawn... ÍI am beginning to think that I should prepare for Prez Saint John.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:45:41 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
June 4th, at the earliest, unless Obama pulls off a magical upset in Indiana tonight.  (Only one pollster -- Zogby -- has him in the lead.  Betting on Zogby...not wise, to put it nicely.)  When do I think it will end?  I wouldn't venture a guess.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:43:09 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
When did everyone got mad at Zogby? I missed something.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:47:17 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Well, he's kind of had his rear end kicked in every contest but Missouri, where he was the only one to call it for Obama (albeit by too wide a margin).  He did okay in Pennsylvania and a few others, but he hasn't consistently beaten other names like SUSA, and he's gotten a few big ones badly wrong.

He's usually a great pollster.  Did very well in 1996 and 2004 (not sure on 2000), at least in the general elections.  Maybe his track record in primaries is lousy but he does well in the generals.  (shrug)

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:51:33 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I just noticed in recent days that everyone hisses at Zogby polls across the US blogs, as do you and ATinNM.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 03:59:31 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I think the rest of the blogosphere is too hard on him, honestly.  I don't trust his polls if they don't jibe with SUSA or PPP, but he's not near as bad as the truly atrocious ones, like ARG (which you'll notice the Kossacks refer to as "ARRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHH").  ARG is very much deserving of its reputation.

The Zogster's alright.  Just don't put any money down on him.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 04:03:57 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Hiss?  (Looking up with mild surprise)  I don't hiss at them.  It's just that one has to be cautious when reporting their results as their Internet based polls are still having teething trouble.

z=z²+c. It's the Law. Obey it.
by ATinNM on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:40:21 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
dKos seems to have fallen over.

Either it's a busy night at the big orange, or someone is having an off-moment in MySQL land.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:49:36 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Is working for me...

Talking nonsense is the sole privilege mankind possesses over the other organisms.
by poemless on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:51:53 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
It's working alright for me, but it was screwed up on my iPhone before.  Back up for you?

Exit polls look like a mixed bag in Indiana.  Higher black turnout and lower rural white turnout than expected.  That may be magnified, too, since as I understand it Obama banked a lot of votes in early voting in his strong regions.  Indiana could be anything from an Obama win to a Clinton win.  I really can't read anything out of them.

North Carolina looks like it's going to come in roughly as I expected.

Clinton's support among southern blacks has been cut in half (O 91-6 Clinton).  Similar figure in Indiana, although O was already beyond the 90% mark in the North.

Economic questions don't tell us a lot so far.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 05:56:49 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
It reappeared almost as soon as I posted that.

I think I'm well into primary fatigue here. I want it to be over, but the pattern so far is that it's going to drag on and on and on and no one is going to be a clear winner until someone from the top of the party tree takes out one of the candidates and (metaphorically) shoots them.

I don't expect an Obama win in Indiana because that would break the pattern and we'd actually have something like a clean finish.

But I'm expecting we'll still be here tomorrow. A few more delegates will have been shuffled around but nothing else will have changed.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:05:35 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Probably.  Looks like it's going to be something above a ten-point win for him in NC, and about a four-point win for her in IN.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:11:47 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
How can you estimate NC without the final exits?
by MarekNYC on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:20:08 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
I had certain numbers in my head on what to look for in the exit polls.  Anything above 33% black turnout would mean a solid win, I think, because he was looking at 30-40+% of whites.  Black turnout today was 33%, and then you add the early voting in which they were 40%.

Might come in a little higher than I expected for him.

NC just got called for O as soon as the polls closed, so presumably he got over a 10-point lead.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 07:33:48 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Clinton seems to be winning Indiana on a combination of republican spoiler votes and a rump of racist white-male democrats.

That's not much of a base. But it's depressing how significant the racist vote still seems to be.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:29:05 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Yeah, 20% said they were voting McCain in November, and they voted 87-12% for Clinton.  That's staggering.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:39:42 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
The funny thing is, Clinton can't win the Presidency without the AA vote.  Bashing Obama is not winning hearts and minds.  

z=z²+c. It's the Law. Obey it.
by ATinNM on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:41:56 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
True, but which part of 'batshit insane' isn't obvious yet?

Or she's going for 2012. Or it's what the lizard people told her to do.

Or whatever.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:43:51 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
Wouldn't worry too much about the racists.  It's depressing, but ya gotta figure 10% of people are just stone-cold racist little shits anywhere you go.  They wouldn't vote for a Dem in November anyway, in all likelihood.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue May 6th, 2008 at 08:46:20 PM EDT
[ Parent ]
"it's what the lizard people told her to do"  ????

ROTFLMAO!

z=z²+c. It's the Law. Obey it.

by