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Sunday Open Thread

by Fran
Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 10:47:27 AM EST

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There is going to be a change with the Salon. We are doing a test-drive to see how it will work out, if I post the Salon in the evening. After almost 3 years of doing the Breakfast thread and then the Salon, I want my mornings back. I would appreciate more leisure and most of all, not having to start out the day with negative news. Posting the Salon in the evening has come up as a solution. So we will see how it works out.

 Also, it might help to avoid double postings of news links. I usually had not the time to check the open thread for news links before doing the Salon. It also looks like lots of news discussions have moved to the OT lately. So maybe with the evening opening of the Salon that can be solved too.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 10:48:27 AM EST
We're all very grateful for your contribution. Whatever works best for you.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 12:32:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you, Helen!
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 12:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree, it is a lot of work for you and maybe more discussion on the news can start in the evening and carry over to the following day.  I hope it works out easier for you!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 01:50:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm only one reader, but most often my day begins with a review of the world through the eyes of Salon.  I've tried to let Fran and afew and all know how much i appreciate the day's compendium.  Goes without saying that i approve of whatever changes must be made, because of the time it must take to produce the usual Salon.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 02:11:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Outrage as French judge annuls Muslim marriage over bride's virginity lie - Times Online

The annulment of a young Muslim couple's marriage because the bride was not a virgin has caused anger in France, prompting President Sarkozy's party to call for a change in the law.

The decision by a court in Lille was condemned by the Government, media, feminists and civil rights organisations after it was reported in a legal journal on Thursday. Patrick Devedjian, leader of the ruling Union for a Popular Movement, said it was unacceptable that the law could be used for religious reasons to repudiate a bride. It must be modified "to put an end to this extremely disturbing situation", he said.

The case, which had previously gone unreported, involved an engineer in his 30s, named as Mr X, who married Ms Y, a student nurse in her 20s, in 2006. The wedding night party was still under way at the family's home in Roubaix when the groom came down from the bedroom complaining that his bride was not a virgin. He could not display the blood-stained sheet that is traditionally exhibited as proof of the bride's "purity".

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 11:04:12 AM EST
Ok, apart from the fact that this involved a scary Muslim, I'm missing the reasons for outrage here. Would a divorce somehow have served better? Or are people to be stripped of the right to divorce if their reasons are fucked up? You can't legislate assholes and screwed up personal relationships out of existence.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 11:52:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But, scary Muslims ! Invented story about blood stained sheets ! A repudiated wife who could only have agreed to the annulment in front of the judge under the menace of Sharia-ordered lapidation ! Politicians showing their commitment to the French Laïcité while only peripherically hunting for racists' votes ! Can't you feel outraged yet ?!?!?!

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 12:32:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Colman, sometimes I wonder ...

Or are people to be stripped of the right to divorce if their reasons are fucked up?

No, but if the reason is that stupid, the party who wants to divorce has to bear the consequences. So, yes, a divorce at all faults for the husband would have served Ms Y a hell lot better. There, it was an annulment. Very different.

What strikes me is that:

The annulment of a young Muslim couple's marriage because the bride was not a virgin has caused anger in France, prompting President Sarkozy's party to call for a change in the law.

Pfff, again a legislative fix. More words in the law. Always more law, more specific, more inapplicable, more lawyer-bound. Fuck that! The law must be simple and concise.

In French law, a marriage can be annulled if one of the parties made substantial and material misrepresentation of its situation. Virginity is not material in our societies. There is no cause for changing the law. There is just cause to kick that decision to the Cour de Cassation and wallop the moron of a judge who made that stupid decision.


Facts, selfish little bastards. They don't even care about your feelings.

by Francois in Paris on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, even less material aspects have been decided similarly by the Cour de Cassation. A similar annulment was made on the case of a Christian bride who had found the groom to already have a mistress before the marriage. That annulment will probably stand still in the Court of Cassation.

Actually, in French Law it is the married people who decide what counts as substantial and material misrepresentation. In that case the bride recognised she had knowingly lied to the groom. It's a pretty liberal way of looking at things : the judge is not recognising that virginity is a material and substantial precondition, he is recognising that for the groom and the bride, it was such a precondition (which was made clear before wedding). Marriage is not only an institution but an intimate contract.


Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
<advertisement>

Please notice my Learning English diary.  Please drop by an give me the benefit of your experience.

Thank you.

We now return to our regularly scheduled Open Thread, already in progress.

</advertisement>

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 11:18:22 AM EST
27001

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 11:46:10 AM EST
Wow.  It moved up quite a bit without my even realizing it.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 11:47:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We're only getting a few hits per day.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 11:48:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, we're sitting here watching Christopher discover that he can manipulate objects ... of course, that means stuffing them into his mouth, but what can you do?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 12:11:08 PM EST
enjoy watching! Babies have survived putting stuff in their mouth for thousands of years. :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 12:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Saw this on americablog:

Mark Bittman: What's wrong with what we eat

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 12:44:18 PM EST
Forgot, it is about 20 minutes long.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 12:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good presentation

"We have to stop raising animals industrially, and eating them thoughtlessly"

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 01:05:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My pc has suddenly decided to once every couple of minutes put out some sound, like there's a crossed line or breakthorugh on the intertubes.

And it seems to be a thing called FX, which is some Fox nonsense. I've run norton to no effect, so I think something else is sitting on my system. Also tried task damager, no use.

Any idea where I look and how to expunge.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 01:47:33 PM EST
try spybot next, plus get the task manager up and screenshot, all the running tasks, throw them to me in an email and we'll work it out

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 01:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
spybot ??

It seems to have stopped. As if it realises I'm on to it.

Screenshot. Please don't remind me I used to be an IT support professional, I've explained my ignorance but how do I do that ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 02:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
alt and prt scr then paste (ctrl v) into a word processing document, will copy the current window. (ctrl and prt scr will copy the whole screen)

on the taskmanager set it to alphabetical order, and scroll down after each screenshot to give me the full list

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 02:22:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EconoSpeak: Debunking Skill-biased Technical Change
Debunking Skill-biased Technical Change

David Card, who always does excellent work, and John DiNardo published a nice work on the subject. Here is their conclusion:

133-40: "Since the late 1980s, a consensus has emerged that the decline in real wages for low-skilled workers in the early 1980s and the subsequent slow recovery of these wage levels are explained by skill-biased technological change. In this chapter, we have argued that the evidence underlying this consensus is remarkably frail.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 01:57:19 PM EST
Not terribly surprising.  Krugman has talked about this in layman's terms.  It's a nice theory, but you can see the holes in it, because high-skilled workers haven't exactly watched their wages soar either.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 04:18:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey LEP!  You need to pick the theme for next week's photoblog and let us all know!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 02:06:04 PM EST
Perhaps the Sunday OT is a good place to say, i'm not sure who captured my account login last night, but it did seem like fun on a slow night.  i stand by everything whoever that was wrote.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 02:18:41 PM EST
Independent - Robert Fisk - So al-Qa'ida's defeated, eh? Go tell it to the marines

So al-Qa'ida is "almost defeated", is it?.........

Am I alone in finding this stuff infantile to the point of madness? As long as there is injustice in the Middle East, al-Qa'ida will win.........

Yes, we've bought ourselves some time in Iraq by paying half of the insurgents to fight for us and to murder their al-Qa'ida cousins. Yes, we are continuing to prop up Saudi Arabia's head-chopping and torture-practising regime - no problem there, I suppose, after our enthusiasm for "water-boarding" - but this does not mean that al-Qa'ida is defeated.

Because al-Qa'ida is a way of thinking, not an army. It feeds on pain and fear and cruelty - our cruelty and oppression - and as long as we continue to dominate the Muslim world with our Apache helicopters and our tanks and our Humvees and our artillery and bombs and our "friendly" dictators, so will al-Qa'ida continue.  




keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 02:34:52 PM EST
Are you any good at finding miniature train stations too?

Photobucket

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 02:44:29 PM EST
No, sorry, I don't have the foggiest. I know only a few of the multitudes of mini railways, and many don't have the longevity of normal railways.

Based on the look of it, I did try to look up some mini railways in non-West-Coast Wales, though, but no luck. The thing appears to be new - or just well maintained?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:01:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, a bit of a red herring since I didn't mention that I went over the border to Bristol yesterday. It was Ashton Park in Bristol and they have a little railway there.  I don't know how old it is though. We were walking my friend's dog, so I didn't go into the station.  Children were running all over the tracks though!

Photobucket

Photobucket


Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 01:48:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The new version of Salon is at this moment being uploaded.  If any of you have predictors, or inside info on what will happen tomorrow please be sure to post.  Your keystrokes will be rewarded.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 03:35:08 PM EST
I predict that somebody will demand that Gordon Brown be ousted.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 03:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LAT - Robert Sheer - Indefensible Spending

What should be the most important issue in this election is one that is rarely, if ever, addressed: Why is U.S. military spending at the highest point, in inflation-adjusted dollars, than at any time since the end of World War II? Why, without a sophisticated military opponent in sight, is the United States spending trillions of dollars on the development of high-tech weapons systems that lost their purpose with the collapse of the Soviet Union two decades ago? ......................

Since the 9/11 attacks, the United States has been on a madcap spending spree on wars and weapons having little, if anything, to do with combating terrorism, nothing to do with the imaginary threat from China and everything to do with sustaining an enormously bloated defense industry threatened with extinction because of the demise of the communist enemy. The fact is, the end of the Cold War was a welcome development for everyone except for those in the military-industrial complex whose profits and jobs, as President Eisenhower famously warned, are rooted in every congressional district. ..................

But then came what defense industry lobbyists and their many allies on both sides of the aisle in Congress came to treat as the gift of 9/11, offering dramatic imagery of a new global enemy. Fortunately for those who profit from a permanent war economy, few in government or the media were inclined to challenge the enemy bait-and-switch game that unfolded. The defense industry and the Pentagon bureaucracy that services it were all too happy to accept whatever war they could embrace, even if the new "global war on terrorism" that President George W. Bush launched was to be fought against an enemy armed primarily with weapons that could be purchased for a few dollars at Home Depot.

h/t cabdrollery

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 03:39:48 PM EST
"Why is U.S. military spending at the highest point, in inflation-adjusted dollars, than at any time since the end of World War II?"

Because "freedom is not free," according to the bumper stickers.

It will only get worse, because the combination of a reduction in spending in the 1990s and the destruction of much of the military's capital equipment in Iraq will "require" a significant amount of ongoing money. The Navy is not able to get its ships built, the Air Force is literally falling out of the sky, and the Army is completely worn out. The next administration is going to run into a heap of trouble from the very beginning.

by asdf on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:46:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The government is controlled by those who have all the fun and profit of that spending. Now wonder they want more...

Politicians dance (and a new album of "Coldplay" is coming):

by das monde on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 09:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I just finished my first book since Christopher was born. That's ten weeks now. (Not counting books of photographs, which you don't exactly read.)
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 04:17:24 PM EST
I lie. I read the Web of Life as well.  I forgot.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 04:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So.  If y'all had four days to kill in France, what would you do?  I mean, Paris is a given, but can I do more than just Paris in four days?  Without bankrupting myself, that is, remember I do get paid in American play money.

Much to my shame (and to the astonishment of most of my friends) I've never been to France, other than a few brief stops at Charles de Gaulle airport.  Yes, I've been to Baghdad and Goma, but not Paris.  Sigh.

Also -- any ETers who might be in or near Paris in roughly two weeks feel like having lunch?

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 04:55:49 PM EST
If Paris is a given, I can't imagine spending less than all four days in it...

But, if just for short trips away, there is Chartres, or there is Orléans, or there are literally thousands of châteaus.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 05:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just 4 days?

Stick with Paris and if you've a yearning for a change of scenery head out to Versailles for a day.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
She could take a day trip to Lyon for great food!

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll actually be in France for over a week, but I'll spend the rest of the time in Bretagne for a wedding.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:32:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm glad you are finally getting some time off!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 01:43:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
if you count 2 days to properly visit EuroDisney, you should be able to visit a few of the sights in Paris...

;-)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would be glad to welcome you. It's only 2 hours from Paris by TGV...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Take up the offer, the food in Lyon is worth crawling from Paris for.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pfff. Plenty of great food in Paris, too. And a day trip to Lyons is a bit expensive, too...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:37:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Melanchthon gives a very scenic and politically instructive walking tour of the city...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you!  I'm still forming a plan, and I'm sympathetic to the argument that there's enough in Paris to keep me busy for four days, but I have to say that I like the idea of meeting The Man From Lyon even more than the idea of actually seeing Lyon... ;-)
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:53:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And you can talk about think tanks, too.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmmmm.  The plot thickens.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 07:00:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can try and get him to come to Paris. It worked for Paul and Redstar.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 07:05:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I really would like to meet you, too. When exactly are you arriving/leaving?

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 07:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the plan for now is to arrive on the 14th and travel to Bretagne on the 18th.  I don't leave France till the 24th (it was double the airfare to leave a day earlier!) and thus have the 23rd and part of the 22nd to play with as well.

I live in fear, however, that someone around here will declare war on someone else before then and ruin the whole plan.  If they could please leave the wars for July, I would be much obliged.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 07:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aïe ! I have a conference in Avignon on the 16th and then will be in Barcelona until the 21st, then Carcassonne, Toulouse and finally Paris on the 25th...

That leaves us only the 15th, unless you arrive earlier...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 01:48:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nooo!  I can't possibly arrive earlier, I already had to pull teeth to get this much time off.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 03:54:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Tell them it's a business meeting...

How about the 15th?

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 04:05:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh, unfortunately they know I have no business in France. ;-)

Could you come to Paris on the 15th?  Or the evening of the 14th?  I arrive in the early afternoon.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 04:24:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I am leaving today for Paris and then Poland. Nex t week, I will certainly be in Paris again. So, I would like to have a some time to see my daughters during the week-end...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 04:35:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wouldn't the daughters like a trip to Paris as a prize for a good school year ?

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 05:26:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, but one is preparing the Baccalauréat and the other one the Brevet, so they are quite busy...

I'll take them to Ireland in July as a prize for a good year, whatever the results...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 02:18:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So they need a weekend getaway to cool down so that they avoid over stressing...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 10:14:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well that's understandable.

I've just checked the TGV fares for Lyon on the 15th, and the cheapest available return fare is €101,  which is quite a lot for a day trip...

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 05:42:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
which is quite a lot for a day trip...

Not if it is to meet me... ;-)

I sent you an e-mail. Did you get it?

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 03:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had the pleasure of both 7 days in Paris and that of meeting Melancthon, linca, Migeru, and a number of other ETers. But, if Melancthon won't come to Paris, then the stormy present must go to Melancthon.

In any case, however wonderful the cuisine of Lyons may be, you almost can't fail to have very good food in France, wherever. Just don't look at the bill too closely - give them your credit card and worry about it when you get home.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 02:12:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It was a great pleasure to meet you, Paul, and I hope we will have opportunities to meet again.

BTW, provided you're ready to pay the price, you can find good food everywhere, even in the United States and even in Paris!... ;-) There are two criteria that make a place a real cuisine heaven:
_ when you can find really excellent food at a reasonable price.
- when entering any restaurant, it is very likely you will find good food
It is the case around Toulouse, in Alsace and, of course, around Lyon. But you can find good food in many other places, too

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 04:17:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
4 days aren't enough to properly visit the Louvres museum itself... Plenty to do in 4 days in Paris, indeed.

And fully available for lunch in any of those 4 days...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 06:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you need to take a day for the Musee d'Oursay (sp?) and a day for the Petit Palais (Goya exhibit may still be there).

Suggestion that may sound strange to the locals, but there are boat tours of the Seine, such as Bateau Mouche, that are both interesting in themselves and can serve as an orientation process, too. Take the trip on your first day, bring along a map of the city and a map of the Metro, and you will get a pretty good idea of where things are in relation to the Seine.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 02:19:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
First, nice to see your back!

4 days in Paris is short. What I like to do in places like Paris is, have a minimal schedule of what I "have" to do - like the Louvre, Versaille... and the rest just for walking around, sitting in a cafe and just soaking in the Ambience. Time usually just flies by. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 2nd, 2008 at 01:48:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So it looks like about 380,000 people voted in the Puerto Rico primary (Clinton now at 68/32 with 72% in).

Drew, you remember the old days (last friday-ish) when Hillary Clinton's campaign was talking about 2 million people voting? And state officials said it would probably be more like about 500,000-600,000?

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jun 1st, 2008 at 05:54:28 PM EST


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