European Tribune

Tuesday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris
Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 10:45:55 AM EST

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Bumper stickers reveal link to road rage : Nature News

"The number of territory markers predicted road rage better than vehicle value, condition or any of the things that we normally associate with aggressive driving," say Szlemko. What's more, only the number of bumper stickers, and not their content, predicted road rage -- so "Jesus saves" may be just as worrying to fellow drivers as "Don't mess with Texas".

Szlemko admits that he is not entirely surprised by the results. "We have to remember that humans are animals too," he says. "It's unrealistic to believe that we should not be territorial."

Precious little research has previously attempted to explore drivers' territorial feelings about their cars, says psychologist Graham Fraine at Queensland University's Transport Policy Office in Australia. "This work clearly demonstrates that people will actively defend a space or territory that they feel attached to and have personalized with markers," Fraine says.

Szlemko suggests that this territoriality may encourage road rage because drivers are simultaneously in a private space (their car) and a public one (the road). "We think they are forgetting that the public road is not theirs, and are exhibiting territorial behaviour that normally would only be acceptable in personal space," he says.



Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 10:56:57 AM EST
Jesus saves...but Peter scores on the rebound.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:53:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ummm, with salon being posted somewhere between 20:00 & 22:00 can we have OT a bit earlier please ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:07:32 AM EST
I think it is meant to be but we are still getting used to the new schedule!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a schedule?  

</snark>

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
TUC Press Release
TUC on science select committee report response

Commenting on the Government's response to the report of the House of Commons Innovation, Universities, Science and Skills Committee into Science Budget Allocations, published today (Tuesday), TUC General Secretary Brendan Barber said:

"DIUS has refused to acknowledge the deep funding problems in UK science, highlighted by the Select Committee. Hundreds of jobs could be lost and cutting edge physics programmes could disappear because of funding shortfalls.

"DIUS is in danger of losing the confidence of the science community, as well as that of trade unionists working in laboratories. Planned cuts in science budgets should be put on hold until the Wakeham Review has reported in September. If Wakeham finds that the cuts would significantly damage UK physics, then they should be reversed."

Science in the UK is underfunded enough as it is. it shows a lack on interest and understanding of the importance of science, research and development to keep cutting the budgets here.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:18:55 AM EST
When Simon Jenkins can trash mathematics (and by inference all of science in the pages of the Guardian, you know that A Davies had a point this morning.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:34:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does Simon Jenkins do anything except trash things? Oh, and call for the Empire of the Whites to put things right for the Silly Little Brown people by shooting at them (or am I confusing him with some other prat?).
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:36:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He is a serial trasher, but I'm not sure you're correct about his prescriptions for solving third world problems.

You're probably confusing him with Gordon Brown.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:52:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could be: I don't care enough to check. Is there some other columnist with a white jacketed mugshot that's big into liberal interventionism?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:56:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Whoa.

Interesting that he refers to John Allen Paulos on Innumeracy, and to Hardy's Apology. I found that Hardy's apology was hardly an advertisement for the subject. And I have to agree that numeracy is to literacy like Mathemetics is to Literature. You need to get every primary-school leaver both literate and numerate (and that is a tall order), but while it is a good thing to know about mathematics and literature, neither is necessary.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:44:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How much of maths can be taught between 18 and 24 ? Because although law or economics seem to be eminently teachable to 18 years old, a maths-oriented mind - which requires much more than numeracy - needs to be trained from much earlier, I'd guess. And Maths still is useful in many fields - from finance to engineering. Pulling maths out of the core would mean it would be much harder to get those scientist properly trained at the end of their education. Look at how many quantitative analysts come from France...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suppose you could do something like
  • 6 years of basic numeracy (but get it right! - this is about acquiring the math as a language, not about what you do with math) in primary school
  • 3 years of discrete mathematics (basic probability and statistics, problem-solving, algorithms - which would introduce the basics of algebra, geometry and analysis as well, but informally) for everyone, and then
  • 3 years of higher math (linear algebra, calculus, geometry) for those on a science track.


When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:01:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is essentially how it is done in France. Halas, the second part focuses more on geometry and algebra rather than probabilities and algorithms...

And of course, the science track is so much more prestigious than all the cool kids who want to do political science, commerce, law, often take it...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 05:58:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
linca:
Look at how many quantitative analysts come from France...
The fact that the job market for mathematicians is pretty much reduced to finance should be worrying. Maybe Jenkins is right and it's not such a useful discipline...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had a pretty solid pre-college math background (IB Maths Higher), and went into college as a physics major. And while I was an abject failure at that (partly talent, partly inclination), there was no shortage of people with very good math skills. Almost all of them ended up either in IT, or in business, or in law. (For non Americans - in the US law is a post-graduate field - first you study something else, anything you want, then after university you apply to law programs. Medicine is similar though you need to take a few science classes in college. Also, the US undergraduate experience is much more flexible than the European one)
by MarekNYC on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:10:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect that says more about the current job market than it does about mathematics.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or mathematicians for that matter.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:30:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not the job market. Scientists still think it's the 50s, and science matters.

It doesn't.

Musicians still think it's the 60s-80s, and music matters.

It doesn't.

All that matters now is finance, with law as a footnote. Finance is the field which has cannibalised all of the talent which could be doing something useful with its time. It's the new rock 'n roll.

No one cares about research or engineering any more. Funding is being cut. A few months from now there will be the usual outcry about how badly the UK is doing compared to other countries, but funding will continue to be cut all the same.

You don't need science for a service economy. You just need people who can smile and nod and rob you blind, and science isn't the ideal training for that.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is to understand what a % is.

Seriously. It's surprising how few people do.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 02:06:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, obviously some of his words come from the classicists disdain of maths and science.

But, his observation that the generic maths curriculum is failing students not bound for science/engineering in university is spot on.

You can even argue that the massive dearth of practical statistics teaching is hobbling us in biology as well as communal understanding of public policy.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:40:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maths and science self-justify as economically worthwhile in a way that law or economics or management studies do not dare.

No shit, Sherlock?

In the two decades during which British pupils have fled from maths towards social science and the humanities, the economy has boomed. It has done so on the strength of finance, marketing and design, on service activities that have little mathematical content. If the market is any guide, Britain "needs" more financiers, consultants, marketers, publicists and lawyers. [my emphasis]

snicker giggle coughNortherRockcough

In all seriousness, though, we could easily do away with most of the Euclidean geometry. It's boring, it's not particularly pretty and if you need geometry at all, you'll need the post-1600 version (which incidentally does not require the classical version at all in my experience).

I disagree with killing off arithmetics and algebra, because it takes a long time to learn and you need a lot of drilling, which is really only possible in a school where you have a captive audience (because for the first few years, it's goddamn boring).

But after arithmetics and algebra has been drilled (hah! who am I kidding), I agree that focus should be on more immediately applicable things, such as how to tell cooked up numbers from bona fide ones and the use and abuse of scatterplots, time series and histograms.

If you have time left after that (big "if" in my experience) you can do a little game theory. Of course, that will annoy the bookies...

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do away with geometry? It's visual, it's the one fun part for the non-scientist-inclined! And one of the many fun parts for this onetime scientist-inclined.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:22:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You really think so? Euclidean geometry is fun?

OK, for the first week or two, where you learn how to construct angles using nothing but a ruler and a piece of string, are pretty amusing (and completely useless, but I never supported making usefulness the principal figure of merit for education). But spending several months to half a year on it (as we do in Danish schools) is just plain overkill.

It's not my experience that non-math and non-science inclined kids find geometry all that fun either... 'Course, those kids are unlikely to find a crash course in spotting BS statistics particularly amusing either, but at least that is useful.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Best of luck doing Flash animation, CGI or even plain vanilla web design if you're not at least numerate and able to understand a simple Euclidean space.

To do anything clever or interesting you need quite a bit more than that.

Also, trying to program anything at all is extra special fun if you don't understand basic logic.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, yes. But that doesn't have anything much to do with classical geometry. You'll want analytical geometry for that.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:52:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oddly, I was never much capable at maths and whatnot in school, but I did manage to remember enough about brackets and the order of operations to write rather complicated Excel spreadsheet formulas.  I love Excel!

And on a couple of occasions, I've taught myself object-oriented scripting languages for game systems.

I have no real clue about WHY any of it works, or what kind of sense the system is supposed to make.  Honestly, it seems really awkward.  But that didn't stop me from figuring it out.

by Zwackus on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:35:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't remember how much time we spent with it, but it was definitely fun to figure out the construction of parallels and halvings and the impossibility of angle thirdings, or follow angle equivalencies in a complex graph, etc., and it led to both trigonometry and simple algebra (e.g. Pythagoras).

From your description, it's not clear to me how much of that you had in those several months in Denmark. However, I do remember that when I went to West Germany, they were taught stuff in mathematics I had one or two years earlier, including some Euclydian geometry, and at a very basic level - not much of the joy (but it wasn't overdone either).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the curriculum runs more or less like this:

Constructing right angles (and parallel lines); constructing hexagons; halving angles; drilling the names of the different species of polygons; constructing various circles in and around triangles that touch tips and lines; a rather anachronistic concept of area; constructing tangents gets brief mention, IIRC.

The most useful bits are the ones about parallel lines and their properties and the decomposition of polygons into triangles. The rest mostly boils down to an exercise in angle construction. And while constructing polygons and circles Ancient-Greek-style is fun the first couple of times, it doesn't have much in the way of re-play value...

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 02:14:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, and I'm a big fan of formal logic. A month or two spent drilling the difference between "not everyone does X" and "everyone does not X" would be eminently worthwhile. And knowing the difference between necessary and sufficient conditions should be an absolute requirement for anyone going into journalism.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
James Walcott has an amusing essay about the man-crush that the tradmed has for John McCain, although he carefully avoids explaining what it is the press are hiding beneath all that swooning. But there's a funny comment about Blair

Not so Tony Blair, former prime minister of Great Britain and beloved cowboy sidekick. From the first indiscreet moment on the public stage, when Bush revealed that he and Tony shared the same brand of toothpaste, Blair purged himself so completely of pride, shame, pique, and preying doubt that each rhetorical flourish he voiced in support of the freedom mission in Iraq rippled like a flag, his mouth supplying the wind. If only the nougaty goodness of his eloquence hadn't been so undermined by his eager, ears-pricked anxiousness to please whenever the White House whistled, Blair might have been able to salvage enough respect to avoid the lapdog label. But the poor man was starstruck, lovestruck, dumbstruck, some kind of struck. Preserved for YouTube posterity is the cringe-making footage from the July 2006 G-8 summit captured on live mike during a lunch break, when Bush hailed, "Yo, Blair!" (there is some minor dispute as to whether it was "Yo" or "Yeah" Bush uttered--the title of Geoffrey Wheatcroft's book Yo, Blair! indicates which interpretive camp has prevailed), and, talking while chewing like Henry VIII with a chicken leg, proceeded to air his remedy to resolve the then ongoing conflict between Hezbollah and Israel that was tearing apart Lebanon: "You see, the irony is that what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it's over." The great ones make it sound so easy.

.........................

That is the abiding mystery of Blair's constant flutter, how little he got for his toadying, the zero dividends his standing-tall, shoulder-to-shoulder stance earned. As the British journalist Andrew Brown wrote for Salon, "No British prime minister except Thatcher and Winston Churchill can have been so much admired in America . ............................................. For his unrequited loyalty to Bush, Blair was dealt one indignity after another until his valiant smile resembled a sword turned inward and his prime-ministerial reign dribbled to an anticlimactic close.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 11:50:30 AM EST
Walcot:
beloved cowboy sidekick.

Ouch.

how little he got for his toadying,

At $50,000 per speech (or whatever the number is) it's possible he doesn't quite see it that way.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:52:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Off to the Chicago Suburbs-Youngest daughter graduating from College, so the various branches of ex-s and in and outlaws from California to Tennessee converging on Crystal Lake.  If Los Angeles wins tonight then my Dad and I can watch the NBA finals together Game 7 Boston Celtics versus the Los Angeles Lakers.  That would be cool, but I'd just a s soon soee Boston close it out tonight.

Hope all are well with all of you, check in again late next week when I get back.

Steve

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson

by NearlyNormal on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:01:13 PM EST
The News | News

Will a book about to be published by historians Slawomir Cenckiewicz and Piotr Gontarczyk - "Secret services and Lech Walesa.  A Contribution to the Biography" shed some new light on the past of the legendary Solidarity leader? 

 

The publication is said to aim to answer the question if the former Polish democratic opposition leader, Nobel Peace Prize winner and President Lech Walesa co-operated with the Communist Secret Services (SB) under the nickname "Bolek" and informed on his colleagues from the Gdansk Shipyard in 1970s, reports the Radio Information Agency (IAR).

Rzeczpospolita broadsheet presents the main theses of the publication.  The newspaper reveals that the documents studied by historians from the Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) - the publisher of the book - include Walesa's personal details form drawn up by SB when the Solidarity leader was arrested during the Martial Law in Poland.  The document says that SB enrolled Lech Walesa as a collaborator on December 29, 1970.   

 

"In the period between 1970 and 1972, he revealed a lot of information regarding harmful activities of shipyard workers", says the document, as reported by Rzeczpospolita.  

As to the question of whether the historians' analysis is sound and unbiased, I leave that to Marek. At any rate, if true, I think

  1. this doesn't take away from Wałęsa's deeds in Solidarność,
  2. nor does this add to Wałęsa's general misdeeds as President,
  3. it is interesting, however, how his personal situation might have affected the secretr files mess, version Poland.

As for the last:

 

The daily also quotes a note drawn up by a secret services officer in 1978, which says that Walesa received money for the information disclosed to the SB.  The book also accuses Lech Walesa that in 1992 and 1993, when he was President, he demanded the Ministry of the Interior to grant him access to his personal files gathered by SB.  Some fragments of his files were never returned back to the Ministry, the authors of the book claim. 

The article goes on to detail turmoil in the Institute of National Remembrance (its head was against the publication), and the real possibility that these are forgeries of the outgoing regime:

Also the former Head of the Agency for State Protection (UOP), General Gromoslaw Czempinski denied on TVN24 that Lech Walesa could operate as agent Bolek.  He said, "Bolek might have been a fictitious figure". Former UOP head also told the television he knew that forgery of documents against the opposition, perhaps including Walesa, was common practice among the Communist secret services in Poland. 


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:05:07 PM EST
As to the question of whether the historians' analysis is sound and unbiased, I leave that to Marek.

If he or anyone know the history of this in detail, a diary would be interesting! The thing is that this claim is not at all new, it was declared real and false repeatedly since the regime change, with ever more details to the story, but I couldn't follow pro and con.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't judge the evidence, not having seen it myself, however, there are several issues with it. First of all the historians are hard right ideologues with a history of tendentious use of evidence to try to discredit the social liberal ex-dissident circles. They are two of the more prominent historians appointed to the IPN by the Kaczynskis after the twins purged it of its left wing, centrist and center-right historians.  Secondly, this shit isn't new, it's been around since the early nineties, and most historians who have examined the evidence say that there is nowhere near enough to reach a conclusion, though the they themselves aren't free of political bias (no one is in a case like this) There is also strong circumstantial evidence suggesting that he wasn't an informer (his treatment in that period was pretty harsh). So all in all, I'd be inclined to doubt it, but I can't be certain.

PS, its deputy head was against publication, not its head.

by MarekNYC on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
PS, as a tie in to Anthony's diary, Gontarczyk was very active in the campaign against Jan Gross' book 'Fear' about violent antisemitism in the aftermath of WWII. While the book rather overstates its case, the IPN crusade against it was ridiculous. It basically amounted to denying the reality of antisemitic violence in postwar Poland by passing it off as simply 'anti-communist' or as communist provocations, and generally downplaying the existence of widespread antisemitism by presenting it as justified because of the large numbers of senior communists of Jewish origin. (How blood libel sparked violence against random Jews qualifies as 'anti-communist' and why violent ethnic cleansing of Poles by Ukrainians is bad, while the reverse is good, and those who deny that are guilty of moral relativism isn't something I quite understand.)  And the purge of the IPN was largely at the behest of the Radio Maryja crowd who were upset that it investigated crimes committed by Poles against other ethnicities, and not just crimes against Poles by the Nazis and Communists.
by MarekNYC on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
First of all the historians are hard right ideologues with a history of tendentious use of evidence to try to discredit the social liberal ex-dissident circles.

You rarely get history without strong bias in this region, so my general suspicions proved right... except: since when do PiS people hate Wałęsa, (and count him a social liberal)? Did Wałęsa extend support to the current government or what? I missed that.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:16:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the twins and the PiS crowd have hated Walesa since soon after his election as president in 1990, orchestrated by Jaroslaw Kaczynski (the ex-PM and head of PiS). It had to do with how much to push de-comunization, and culminated in the Walesa orchestrated removal of the hard right government of Jan Olszewski  that was the forerunner to the recent PiS government. It was at that time that the accusations first surfaced.
by MarekNYC on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My memory might be totally garbled, but I thought they were friends in AWS times?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:33:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, though some of the folks in the current PiS were. The twins left the AWS soon after the elections, following their pattern of being brilliant at uniting the right when its out of power and splitting it the moment it wins. The relationship since the early nineties has swung back and forth between chilly and frigid.
by MarekNYC on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:37:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, I am forgetful. Upon re-reading, I recall this one from last year:

Elections législatives et sénatoriales en Pologne, 21 octobre 2007

At the end of August on the 27th anniversary of Solidarity, former Foreign Minister, Bronislaw Geremek, former President of the Republic (1990-1995) Lech Walesa, and former Prime Minister (1989-1991), Tadeusz Mazowiecki published "The Gdansk Declaration 2007". "The present situation requires major changes. It is vital to throw light on the events that have taken place over the last few months. General and senatorial elections are necessary," they wrote. "The slander and fighting have destroyed citizen confidence in politics, the authorities, and the institutions. Instead of ensuring that the law was applied, the latter have become instruments in the hands of those in power. Serious evidence shows that these institutions have been used against the citizens. The Polish political arena has to be cleaned up and the filth has to be removed, along with the hate and obstinacy. A new generation must be given a chance." So reads the Gdansk Declaration 2007. ... Lech Walesa maintains that the Kaczynski brothers' behaviour "emanates from the Stalinian past". "They do everything they can to retain power and destroy their adversaries, " maintains the former President.


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In addition to our Ask the Expert technical section we will have as our main section ANYTHING GOES !

Interpret that as you like :-)

I told Bush; don't play chess with the freakin' Russians.

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 12:22:12 PM EST
Israel Aerospace Industries Ltd. - Jun 16, 2008
G-NIUS announced that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) has received its first trial system of the GUARDIUM Unmanned Ground Vehicle (UGV).

Sponsored by MAFAT (the Israeli Ministry of Defense's Research & Development Branch), GUARDIUM is scheduled to take part in security missions along Israel's borders.

In preparation for its operational deployment, GUARDIUM UGV is presently concluding a comprehensive test and evaluation campaign in the IDF's Operational Test Laboratories.

     
 


The struggle of man against tyranny is the struggle of memory against forgetting.(Kundera)
by Elco B (elcob at scarlet dot be) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:29:13 PM EST
Please put down the weapon. You have 10 seconds to comply.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 01:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Potential new client today. I've not signed an NDA yet, so I can give impressions of the technology, but have no idea how it works.

The company is Senseg.

Senseg has created a fundamentally new method to produce touch-like sensations. Senseg's leading edge technology has a wide range of applications, for example generating the feeling of virtual buttons on smooth surfaces such as mobile phones or other touch screens.

The prototype (or what was demonstrated) feels like a tingle or a puff of air on the finger - hard to decide which. It is not localized enough yet - covering an area of around 25 mm square, but the area will get smaller and more precise. So they say.

It sounds weird, and it is. But the ramifications are enormous. No doubt that is why former engineers of Skype have invested - along with seed fund Vera. I'll keep you posted until my mouth is shut.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 02:28:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ok. So I was originally supposed to spend the day in Brussels, and go to Copenhaguen tonight. I managed to cancel the trip to Brussels and will go to Copenhaguen tomorrow morning (reeeaaallly early, sigh).

My wife had been invited to go see the game tonight with some half-Italian friends, and had booked the baby-sitter. So when my trip was changed, I was hoping to go with her.

But now the baby-sitter is ill, and we have two additional kids for the night at home - well, I have 2 additional kids, given that my wife is still going to her party....

It should be fun - the only question is whether I'll succeed in putting them to sleep before the second half. And it needs to be actual sleep, given that I have no TV and need to go over to the neighbors to watch the game...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 02:11:08 PM EST
And you don't have a paddle ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 02:29:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You could have watched it on a computer...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 06:04:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
WorldChanging: The Nexus of Peak Oil, Climate Change and Infrastructure

The creation an efficient, effective and fair U.S. climate policy is utterly important, and overdue. But, argues Dynamic Cities Project founder Bryn Davidson, unless we take Peak Oil into consideration, we may end up in a situation that pits energy security against climate change concerns.

Davidson told the 30 or so people squeezed into a board room at the Seattle Office of Sustainability & Environment that only by coupling policy on Peak Oil and climate change, will we succeed in reaching a sustainable future. (Take a look at what Peak Oil looks like here.)

Although climate change is the larger threat, Davidson said, the magnitude of Peak Oil will soon outweigh climate change concerns, as fossil fuels are ingrained in almost our entire infrastructure.

"Peak Oil is an economic bulldozer that comes on and changes everything," Davidson said. "A climate strategy that ignores Peak Oil would be like sticking our heads in the sand."


The presentation by Davidson on Peak Oil, Climate Change and Transportation is well worth clicking through. I especially like the thinking on scenario-based planning.

Our current infrastructure planning processes come out rather stupid in comparison.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 02:16:15 PM EST
Fascinating.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 02:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A very good example for a dedicated professional audience.

But how do you persuade Mr Normal? How do you persuade couch potatoes?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't have to.

You do have to persuade government officials. They're the professional snake-oil salesmen, they'll take care of Mr. Normal.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:05:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But clearly they haven't been able to sell a single bottle in Ireland. They are incompetent. It is not enough to hold up a bottle and say "It works - read the fine print on the ettiquette", The pain-ridden populace, desperate to relieve their aches, isn't buying it.''

Either you demonstrate a miracle cure, or offer an explanation as to how it works that is understandable to the assembled citizens.

I DO however believe we can show the snake-oil salesmen how to sell their product, by taking a dose of the medicine ourselves.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:25:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, how do they manage to get themselves elected, then?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:08:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you vote "no" in elections it feels like nobody is listening to you :P

The plural of anecdote is bullshit.
by generic on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 08:31:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Getting elected and doing the job are two entirely different things: witness Finnish MEP Anneli Jäteenmäki, disgraced former PM, whose language skills are zero and who, to my knowledge, has made no speeches yet - after 4 years! She was elected because her role as an MEP was not understood by those who voted for her.

I am sure there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other MEP examples of incompetence. And let's not get started on Commissioners. ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 02:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Commissioners don't get elected.

But my point is that these people's only skill is to convince people that they are right.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 02:39:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was referring to incompetence - and I understand your point.

But let's say that the real snake-oil salesmen are selling products containing opioids (historically quite common). Of course the gullible buyers of snake-oil are going to feel 'better'. But it doesn't make the salesmen right, however good they are at selling.

I agree with you that if it were possible to convince the snake-oil salesmen to give up their products and sell something scientifically efficacious i.e. to remodel the entire distribution systems of travelling shows and wagons, then that would be good.

But another method would be to reduce gullibility in the audience. To go for the demand, not the supply. The proposed ET EU map is aimed at that gullibility.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 03:03:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd be happy if we can use the ET EU map to bet people to pay less attention at what happens at the Summit of Heads f State or Government and more to what happens elsewhere.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 03:13:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed. And those 'people' include the media. If our 'map' works, and the media refer to it or do something similar under their own brand, then I think we will have achieved a great deal. The media affect both 'supply and demand' in EU communications.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 03:19:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]



Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:35:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scary how I've seen at least 2/3 of the graphs before! ;O

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:52:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are there any David Sirota fans about?  I know many of you read things like Daily Kos and HuffPo a lot more often than I do...  To be honest, I don't know a lot about him (except, according to wikipedia, it looks like we went to college together...)  Anyway, check it out, I'm meant to be "schmoozing" with him later in the week (not that either of us have anything to gain from schmoozing with each other...) and I'm really terrible at this kind of thing.  I know he's pissed off people at Kos, but I'm not sure why, what that is all about.  I feel like I should be more in the loop about all this.  

Also, how do people feel about "schmoozing"?  I'm decidedly anti-"schmoozing."  

OTOH, it's a backyard bbq at my friend's house.  I can't not go.  That would be silly.  I've just been so out of the US politics/blogosphere drama loop lately...  

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:35:19 PM EST
I wouldn't call him my idol, but I like his writing.  No idea why the Kossacks would be mad at him, but you know they always have their panties in a twist over something over there.  I love dKos, but they really are a bunch of drama queens.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I tend to read his stuff whenever I see it. People on dKos dislike him because they feel that his diaries are really just adverts for his paid writing rather than stand-alone contributions to the kos community.

Also, he has a particular (and slightly jaundiced) view that rubs that community the wrong way. He does post at HuffPo, but in terms of exposure to his audience, dKos is his audience..

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:53:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Think of it as networking.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Except "networking" makes me perfectly nauseous...

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:55:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just pretend you don't know who he is and be very interested in his blogging career.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A bit late for that since we've already exchanged a few e-mails.  Pretending not to know who he is now might come off as more "mentally ill" than "charmingly naive."

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:54:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like his politics, because he is also a populist. If he didn't invent the rubric "Fair Trade", he popularized it among the progressive blogs - and, finally, among the progressive politicians, such as Darcy Burner in WA.

His detractors on DKos seem to feel that he is 'careerist', due to his books, media interviews, and news columns. It's pretty much "the perfect is the enemy of the good" in my opinion. David is a more practical pundit, looking for solutions that will appeal to a broad political coalition, but will still head in the correct direction.

The other characteristic that seems to rankle some of the Kossacks is that he will stick with the argument, and he has a pretty fair command of facts. Overall, he has a similar run there as Jerome - certain amount of abuse, majority of supporters, enough readers to hit the Recommended group consistently.

Did I mention that he's fairly good-looking, about 6' tall, and married?

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:57:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did I mention that he's fairly good-looking, about 6' tall, and married?

Of course; why did you think I have to go to this?  ;)  

BTW, I'm pretty certain there is not one hot, intelligent, liberal unmarried man left in the universe.  My own unscientific studies confirm it.

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."

by poemless on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What kind of universe is this?

Was it the intelligence that did me in this time?

by Nomad on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:17:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you going to the Paris meetup?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there is a sudden urge.

Clearly I need to convince a few people of my hotness and my intelevision. I mean intelligence. Yeah.

by Nomad on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or, you could just post a picture...  :)

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:34:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for all of your responses, everyone.

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Okay, so maybe I'm nuts, but I'm really starting to think about it.  Still trying to gather my thoughts, and I'll undoubtedly have more to say later, but the end result is this: The GOP may try to toss McCain out.

Thoughts?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:46:05 PM EST
I think they'd love to, he's obviously sinking fast and taking the field with him, not so much coattails as undertow.

But who is there ? Huckabee ? Romney ? Jeb Bush ???

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hillary!

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:10:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Y'know, she reminds me of Julie Birchill, a stupid self-contradicting ignorant iconoclast.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know what she is saying but she has aggressive body language and her top lip hardly moves.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha !!!! Half of the GOP would spontaneously combust.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:11:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Who else would want it, though?  The question is, "Would a replacement have any real shot?"  Probably not.  By then, if this happened, Dems would be pumped beyond measure.  Obama would likely be an unstoppable juggernaut with an army like we've never seen.  The Reps would be broke and without any infrastructure.

And I think it'd spark a war in St Paul (ironic given that was supposed to happen in Denver, eh?).

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 04:08:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Darth Cheney

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:41:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The one guy with lower approvals than Bush?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 08:11:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Petreus? Though I doubt he would want to blow his long-term chances entering a hopeless race like this one. The same probably applies to anybody who might otherwise have a chance.

What if no alternative candidate gets half the delegates to vote for him? Does anybody know what happens then?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean if no candidate, McCain or an alternative, gets the majority of delegates' votes?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:14:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. I couldn't find any rules for conventions anywhere. Do they just keep trying indefinitely, as with the pope? Is there a cutoff point where the one with the most votes wins (as with some Italian elections)? Or could we end up with no Republican candidate and an Obama vs. Nader election?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They just keep going until someone carries a majority, I believe.  The Libertarian Party went through six or seven ballots before Barr won.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:28:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
Odds on McCain not actually being nominated at the Convention?


When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 03:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Look at these polls today:

Ohio
Obama 50
McCain 39

Impressive spread, and the internals actually suggest the poll may be too generous to McCain.

NC (79% White, 18% Black sample)
McCain 45
Obama 41

Now note that I mentioned the sample.  Blacks were 26% of the NC Electorate in 2004.  They're 30% of the population.  If the internals on this poll are correct, but simply underreporting blacks, Obama's going to win North Carolina.

Kentucky (!)
McCain 53
Obama 41

Obama's gone from being down by 36 points to being down 12.

And, lastly, look what's happening in Poblano's model.

The reason I'm entertaining the idea of the GOP dumping McCain is that there may be something happening that we're not yet seeing reflected in the national polls (which would be odd, since I think national polls lag state ones, but I'm sure we could come up with an explanation).

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, while I'm not a huge believer in the predictions markets, note, too, that Intrade now has McCain at only 33.5% and Obama up to 62.6%.  McCain's standing seems to be steadily eroding.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 05:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there may be something happening that we're not yet seeing reflected in the national polls (which would be odd, since I think national polls lag state ones

Whay would that be odd? If national polls lag state ones things would show up first on state polls before they are reflected in the national ones.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:11:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But why would they lag state ones?

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:12:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, so that's what you think needs explanation...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I'd wonder what the intuitive explanation for state polls lagging nationals would be.

I can reason it the other way around.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 06:26:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When is the convention?

Do the Rs have anyone at all who would be more popular?

There has to be a smarmy guy in a cheap suit somewhere they could put up if McBain suddenly has to retire to put more food on his family.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 07:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the GOP convention is in the first week of September, just after the Dems.

I'm not sure who they'd get to take McCain's place.  Romney and Huckabee would each turn it down, since I think both clearly want to run in 2012 if McCain loses.  Those are the two logical contenders from the Big Business and Christian Right wings of the party.  They don't really have anybody who's a champion of both wings right now who also happens to be presidential material.  The religionists hate Romney, because he doesn't believe any of their shit, is a member of a different cult, and wears magic underwear.  The neoliberal and neoconservative wings hate Huckabee, because Huckabee's insane.  And none of them really thinks he believes that Fair Tax shit.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Jun 17th, 2008 at 08:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe Ron Paul wouldn't mind losing...

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 02:10:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, Ron Paul wants to make trouble at the convention and build a grassroots organization to get more people like him elected.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 06:51:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Considering that the last person to successfully blend locust-like free market venality, plastic dashboard spirituality, flag-waving carboard patriotism and a reassuring level of stuped was GWB, it's not looking likely the GOP is going to be able to find anyone at short notice with exactly the right skillset - cheap suit or no.

They don't really have a choice. If they throw McCain under the proverbial bus, they lose. If they keep McCain, they lose.

At this point they might as well phone Moscow and ask to borrow Lenin's corpse for a few months - it's as likely to help them win as any of their other options.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 07:06:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
More frequent national polls, with a sample size too small to infer anything reliable at the state level?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 06:57:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You keep flip-flopping on me here, unless we have a misunderstanding of what it means that A lags B. I thought A lags B means that features of B show up in A later, and A leads B means that features of A show up in B later.

State polls would lag National polls on average because everyone is aware of National polls and people who want to vote for the winner may change their vote to follow the latest national poll.

Individual state polls can lead national polls because the national polls are big averages and a small effect is amplified in a state poll and so are visible earlier. This is what you seem to be talking about: the state polls you quote are showing things that get averaged out in national polls, especially because we're talking about relatively small states whose population is diluted in a national poll.

Drew J Jones:

there may be something happening that we're not yet seeing reflected in the national polls (which would be odd, since I think national polls lag state ones
something is apparent in state polls before it is in national polls

but that can't be [you think state polls follow national polls]

you think national polls follow state ones

Drew J Jones:

But why would they lag state ones?
[you expect state polls to follow national polls]

Drew J Jones:

I'd wonder what the intuitive explanation for state polls lagging nationals would be.

I can reason it the other way around.

You can reason that national polls follow state polls.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 18th, 2008 at 07:37:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
<