Right to a family life

by In Wales
Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 09:19:33 AM EST

One of the fundamental human rights enshrined in the European Convention on Human Rights is the right to a family life and the right to get married.

In the UK, there is an increasing focus on building human rights into the design and delivery of public services and in trying to raise the public conciousness about how human rights is relevant to them in terms of their own rights and their responsibility to respect the human rights of others. We are still fairly poor on this at the moment.


An example used for design of service delivery when it comes to the right to a family life is as follows:

An elderly couple who have been married for 60 years and are currently still living together, then get separated after one of them becomes ill and requires care that can only be provided in a nursing home. The other is sent to a separate nursing home since their needs are different.

This is a breach of their human rights (and is a real life case for many elderly couples). Separating a married couple may ensure that each have their basic needs met (cared for, fed, kept warm and safe) but it fails to respect their human rights ie to carry on living with each other.

I was reminded of this scenario last week when I was talking to a young woman who was telling me about her boyfriend, and how the ring on her finger meant that they were going to get married, and how she utterly loved him and was looking forward to the wedding. A friend was saying how wonderful it was for them both and how nice it is to have that to look forward to and the thought that flashed across my mind was - "is he unfairly building her hopes up? Should he be more realistic?"

The young woman in question is wheelchair bound, with very little movement, almost no speech although she uses a very basic speech machine based on symbol combinations, requires 24 hour care, hoists, medication... an extremely severe disability.

But, nonetheless, she too has the fundamental right to a family life, to get married if she wishes. The bottom line is that she is a human being, a person. It may be hard at first glance to see that person and not the disability, but having had the priviledge of getting to know her, it is obvious that she knows her own mind, she knows what she wants. I believe she should be able to exercise control over the choices she makes about how to live her life, yet the reality is that almost everything is decided for her.

She hurts and hopes and desires and loves and fears just as I do, just as you do.

So when we discuss her wedding with her, when we talk to her about how in love she is, there's a terrible juxtaposition of wanting this love story to become reality and yet knowing that this choice is likely to be refused her because our society still doesn't quite view her as being human, so her human rights don't have to be addressed.

I'm not quite sure what the aim of sharing this story is, other than I hope to give people something to reflect on, in terms of how our societies view disability and the rights of those with extremely severe and limiting disabilities to be able to exercise their rights in the same way as the rest of us. Perhaps it is another example of hierarchy of who is a valid member of society and who isn't.

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Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 09:53:06 AM EST
Human rights legislation or no human rights legislation, gay people do not have any right to marry in the UK. They are only accorded civil partnerships, which may allow a pseudo-recognition in the eyes of the law but by no means does it confer all of the rights and privileges of marriage.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 09:57:04 AM EST
Good point.  I wonder if anyone has tried to argue this as a breach of the right to get married, for gay people?  In the link I gave above it does specify that transgendered people should be given the right to marry someone of the opposite sex once they have transitioned.  But reference to same sex marriages is not there.

Another example of hierarchies of rights.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 10:27:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I wonder if anyone has tried to argue this as a breach of the right to get married, for gay people?

Yes, they have

We are a British same-sex couple who legally married in Canada in 2003. For When the Civil Partnership Act became law (December 2005), we were told our marriage was now deemed a civil partnership.
 A different-sex couple married in Canada would automatically have had their marriage recognised as a marriage in the UK.

With the support of the human rights organization Liberty, we sought a declaration of the validity of our marriage as a marriage in the UK. We lost.

The judge agreed that we are treated differently from a heterosexual couple, and that this constitutes discrimination. But he said that this discrimination is justified in order to protect the traditional definition of marriage as between a man and a woman, primarily to produce children. Drawing on British and European case law, he also ruled that a same-sex couple does not constitute 'a family'.

More religionist bollocks to justify discrimination from a Labour Party in thrall to superstitious hatreds

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 10:41:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was surprised to discover that I was legally allowed to marry, so long as I get a gender recognition certificate and new birth certificate. Cost of £140 last time I looked.

Can't be bothered.

But, without it, can I get married to a woman ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 10:43:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess technically you may be able to, unless somebody jumps up at the ceremony with reasons why these two people shouldn't marry... Would there be a risk of the marriage being revoked at a later stage if your gender becomes officially recognised through whatever process?

If you don't mind me asking do you have legal status as a woman or do you need to apply for these documents in order to get that?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 10:56:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sure you could be supplied with some very muscular ushers if you ever wanted to do this.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 11:12:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ha, that's a bridge I'll cross should I come to it.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 11:26:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
One thing I remember from my sisters wedding is being informed by the priest that if anyone actually wanted to complain, they have to put a cash deposit down, otherwise their complaint is instantly dismissed.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 11:36:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do I have a legal status without ? Ummm, dunno. I have a passport and driving license that say I'm female and are taken as legitimate ID by all authorities I've dealt with. Whether that applies to marriage where a birth certificate is required I dunno.

The gender recognition certificate was brought in for that purpose but the legislation specifically states that it is not to be used as an identification certificate (despite which, the LGBT police officer demanded one from TGs who wanted to use the female loo at Pride). Course I can't retire at 60 whatever I do cos that would cost HM Govt money.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 11:25:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Would there be a risk of the marriage being revoked at a later stage if your gender becomes officially recognised through whatever process?

No, because they oblige you to have a divorce from any official partnership before you go through. It was never an issue for me as I didn't have a partnership, but a lot of my official pre-op recognition was dependent on my being single.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 11:30:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That has got to be one of the most absurd regulations I've ever heard of. Restricting medical treatment on the basis of who you live with?

Makes one want to go to sleep and not wake up until the 22nd century.

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 02:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yea, but if you're married, which is currently legally restricted to heterosexual couples, then if you change sex your relationship legally changes.

Plus a lot of this comes from custom and practice when lesbian relationships weren't officially recognised. Also in the UK the medical profession make you jump through a lot of stupid hoops to prove to them you're serious and worth wasting money on.

Plus there's a whole heap of expectations from psychologists that the transgendered should conform to stereotypical feminine behaviours, one of which must involve a desire to play happy families with men. Being sexually orientated towards women definitely counts against you and so being married or wanting to continue a relationship with a woman would be the end of your ambitions to change gender.

And then bigot wimminists use conforming to those very stereotypes against us. Gah, ya can't win !!

Again, I'm glad I didn't have to put up with any of that crap, but those who did remain angry even decades later. The psychiatrist who started the gender re-assignment clinic was such a monster that, 25 years after his death, his resting place apparently still smells of wee from those who've pissed on his grave.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 02:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Texas, yes. .From Slate:
Paradoxically, it's the more conservative states that tend to allow such same-sex unions. Courts in Texas and Kansas, for example, have ruled that no operation can alter a person's sex in the eyes of the law. In the 1999 Texas decision, a state appeals court invalidated the marriage between a deceased man and his male-to-female transsexual widow, after the widow tried to sue her husband's employer for wrongful death. Gender, the court concluded, is "fixed by our Creator at birth."

The unintended consequence of that decision, however, is that a transsexual could marry someone of the same gender in Texas. After all, if a male-to-female transsexual is legally a male in the state, regardless of her surgery and appearance, then she is free to marry another female. In fact, at least two couples have taken advantage of this Texan loophole since the ruling. A 2002 Kansas decision, In re Gardiner, created this same loophole, although it's unclear whether any couples have made use of it yet.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Jul 29th, 2008 at 04:14:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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