Interesting economics thoughts...

by Metatone
Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 10:26:25 AM EST

Over at Naked Capitalism, the author has turned a long comment by one contributor into a full blog post:

I'd urge you to read it in full, as it puts some numbers around some key questions about neoliberalism:

naked capitalism: Hoisted From Comments: Has Neo-Liberalism Failed to Deliver the Goods?

Reader Juan provided a well-argued and provocatively-worded critique of so-called market fundamentalism yesterday that I thought would provide grist for thought and discussion. The main argument in favor of less regulated commerce, both domestically, in the form of deregulation, and internationally, via more liberal trade regimes, is that it generates higher growth. Juan argues that the results have been the reverse.

Promoted by Colman


This section in particular caught my attention:

naked capitalism: Hoisted From Comments: Has Neo-Liberalism Failed to Deliver the Goods?

Neoclassical economists and their theories provided ideological justification; a sort of 'we are all neoliberals now' attitude infected world leaders until, in 1989, John Williamson coined the term 'Washington Consensus', which was very much not the consensus of those most subject to the various 'shock therapies'.

So, how did the world do under this set of misguided fundamentalisms?

"Real global GDP growth averaged 4.9%a year in the Golden Age years from 1950 through 1973, but dropped to 3.4% annually in the unstable period between 1974 and1979. Dissatisfied with the instability, inflation, low profits and falling financial asset prices of the 1970s, advanced country elites pushed hard for a switch to a more business friendly political-economic system; global Neoliberalism was the result. World GDP growth averaged 3.3% a year in the early Neoliberal period of the 1980s, then slowed dramatically to 2.3% from 1990-99 as Neoliberalism strengthened, making the 1990s by far the slowest growth decade of the post war era." (James Crotty)

Which led me to the following page:

http://www.people.umass.edu/crotty/index_files/Page311.htm

Crotty has done a pile of interesting work, of which I only had time to read properly the paper the blog quotes:
Crotty -- Recent Papers

2000

*  Structural Contradictions of the Global Neoliberal Regime

For me, the most frustrating thing about this critique of neoliberalism is that it was written in 2000. I think the first vector of attack on it would be to ask questions about how things have developed since then.

Thus, if George Soros is reading, one of the most useful things that a monied think-tank could do would be to pay Crotty (or someone else) to update the data and arguments in this paper with figures coming up to the present time.

The paper is interesting to me, because I've been groping around for some time now, trying to understand the interaction of increased productivity with aggregate demand that does not seem to be keeping pace.

This comes at the issue from another angle, integrating the political question of how neo-liberalism itself has constrained aggregate demand.

I'm not sure about the interest rate story he tells (which is part of why I think an update to 2008 would be so interesting) but I think this paper is another interesting pointer to what I would regard as the key difficulty with "economics" so far:

Absent "non-market" redistribution, "market-fundamentalism" creates growth and creates increasing inequality. However, this system tends to reduce aggregate demand, because the needs of the wealthy are actually quite constrained. And the needs of the non-wealthy cannot create "economic growth" because they have no wealth.

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Terrible to see that this diary has no comments.

I meant to... Still mean to.. But yet again have to go off and do something else. Back later ;)

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 11:01:55 AM EST

The paper is interesting to me, because I've been groping around for some time now, trying to understand the interaction of increased productivity with aggregate demand that does not seem to be keeping pace.

I saw this yesterday, but was unable to quickly find the source of the best supporting analysis of which I am aware, J.A.Hobson's Imperialism.  Now I have found it :


It is this economic condition of affairs that forms the taproot of Imperialism. If the consuming public in this country raised its standard of consumption to keep pace with every rise of productive powers, there could be no excess of goods or capital clamorous to use Imperialism in order to find markets: foreign trade would indeed exist, but there would be no difficulty in exchanging a small surplus of our manufactures for the food and raw material we annually absorbed, and all the savings that we made could find employment, if we chose, in home industries.

There is nothing inherently irrational in such a supposition. Whatever is, or can be, produced, can be consumed, for a claim upon it, as rent, profit, or wages, forms part of the real income of some member of the community, and he can consume it, or else exchange it for some other consumable with some one else who will consume it. With everything that is produced a consuming power is born. If then there are goods which cannot get consumed, or which cannot even get produced because it is evident they cannot get consumed, and if there is a quantity of capital and labour which cannot get full employment because its products cannot get consumed, the only possible explanation of this paradox is the refusal of owners of consuming power to apply that power in effective demand for commodities.

But it may be asked, "Why should there be any tendency to over-saving? why should the owners of consuming power withhold a larger quantity for savings than can be serviceably employed?" Another way of putting the same question is this, "Why should not the pressure of present wants keep pace with every possibility of satisfying them?" The answer to these pertinent questions carries us to the broadest issue of the distribution of wealth. If a tendency to distribute income or consuming power according to needs were operative, it is evident that consumption would rise with every rise of producing power, for human needs are illimitable, and there could be no excess of saving. But it is quite otherwise in a state of economic society where distribution has no fixed relation to needs, but is determined by other conditions which assign to some people a consuming power vastly in excess of needs or possible uses, while others are destitute of consuming power enough to satisfy even the full demands of physical efficiency.

Our present dilemma is not for want of cogent analysis.
The date of this work is 1902.  Hobson was a regular contributor to the (Br) magazine The Nation. He was a reporter for the Manchester Guardian covering the Boer War, which had a profound effect on his thinking.  His major concern for the UK was the issue of the distribution of wealth.  He favored a mixed system with some industries being nationalized. He was considered to be somewhere between the Liberals and the Socialists of his day.

The problem of distribution of wealth remains the most fundamental and the process Hobson analyzed under the concept of Imperialism continues, as in Iraq, but has also metastasized into new ways for a tiny elite to extract vast sums from the masses. "Financalization" and "bubbles" are two examples.  How do we get people to "wisen-up"?  At least with the Vikings, the locals knew they were being raped and pillaged.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 02:42:52 PM EST
Our present dilemma is not for want of cogent analysis.

As Bruce says elsewhere in this thread: the problem is not technical, it is political.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 09:10:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the problem is not technical, it is political.

As I implied in my last two sentences:

How do we get people to "wisen-up"?  At least with the Vikings, the locals knew they were being raped and pillaged.

The ability of elites to distract and manipulate the population remains the most basic problem.  Until now the population in the US has remained more receptive to the charge that critics of the current neo-liberal economic system are conducting "class warfare" than to the charge that the elites have successfully waged such war on them.

Mine was the first substantive comment on the diary.  Bruce, at least in part, concurred.  I remain convinced that the cogency of Hobson's analysis is still valuable. Among other things, he is pragmatic.

One of the problems in the US is to undo the vaccination that almost all US citizens received during the cold war against anything that could be smeared, first as "Atheist-Communist", then as Marxist, then socialist,  down to, most comically, as "liberal," remains a potent obstacle to intelligent discourse.  As the professor in the one course I took from a sociologist remarked: "The value of Marks is in his analysis.  His prescriptions  were very tentative." But the conservatives have managed to conflate him with Lenin, as in "Marxist-Leninist." Most unfortunate.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 11:09:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Being the old fashioned fart that I am, there's a simple answer to:

... the interaction of increased productivity with aggregate demand that does not seem to be keeping pace.

Aggregate demand is not keeping up with increased productivity because the majority of the world's population don't make enough money to eat 3 square meals a day much less purchase consumer goods.  When all a person's salary is going to food and rent there isn't anything left over for that snazzy puce and mauve digitally controlled FingerPlucking Nose Hair Removal System™ (with the KungFu© grip!)

In the First World, the trans-nats have gone about their merry business destroying local economies and now they're wondering where all the local consumers went that used to purchase their goods.  

A regular practice of mine, back when I had a subscription to the Economist, was to check the Productivity Increase Chart in the back pages against the Wage statistics.  The only country that regularly matched Productivity Increase and Wage Rate Increase was Sweden.  The US regularly had increasing Productivity and decreasing Wages.  The other countries listed fell somewhere in the middle.

It doesn't matter when n workers go from making a to 2_a_ number of goods if the price of those goods means there is only a amount of goods that can be sold because nobody else can afford them.  

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bork! Bork! Bork!

by ATinNM on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 02:55:57 PM EST
Of course, I agree, but what I know not is how to do something about it before an "endgame collapse" of the system as it eats itself.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 03:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Somehow, we have to devise rhetoric that will convince  majorities in all of our countries that the policies that we have pursued have in fact been designed by the beneficiaries of those policies specifically to enable dominant elites to extract the maximum amount from the rest of society.  Humor is always helpful.  

Melo's comment on ceebs' blog leaps to mind. The discussion being about the impact of bio-fuel on food and energy costs combined:

"car eats our food, we can't eat oil.

car wins, game over"

Ideally, if someone could get this line to some of the writers on Saturday Night Live, and should the straight man give it a proper set-up, it could be devastating.

 

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 08:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
heh, i almost didn't post that comment, snark too dark for public consumption...

The Emperor Has No Growth

the opportunities for constructive satire kinda jump off the screen with this one...

what we need are great graphics.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 01:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I always thought that H.C. Anderson cleaned up "The Emperor's New Clothes."  In the case of such an event, the crowd would be more likely to tear limb from limb the little boy who made the observation.  This would be for revealing them to have been such fools.  Dark enough?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 03:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a race for the dark, uh-huh.

not always in the mood, but your idea would make a great cartoon.

i was thinking more along the lines of deconstructing the viagrafication of masculinity.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 05:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

deconstructing the viagrafication of masculinity.

Laudable goal that!  However I fear it would require the purchase of time for public, (pubic?), service announcements.  My solution would be to place a 100% tax on all drug advertisements.  25% would go to such counter Pharma advertisments.  The remainder would go to Medicade.  I don't know how it works over there.  Is prime time commercial TV viagrafied?  How about running counter adds, how poorly the stuff works, featuring a computer generated "sprite" of Berlusconi?  Two birds with one stone?  Make that a kidney stone please.  Such an ad would be the political equivalent of a kidney stone for good ole' S.B. (Has he got his initials backwards?)

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 07:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
my fave big pharma ad i saw in a doctor's waiting room in the usa, in a med journal that was full of colour whole page ads for medications. the centrefold was an ad for a medication whose unique purpose was to enable patients to remember to take their other medications.

wot's next, thunk i, another one to help remind you to take that one?

who said perpetual motion was impossible?

something else that may amuse you: here in yurp rupert murdoch has kindly provided us with access to the much lauded fox news (we distort, you deride) channel.

it is wonderful enough to see the ollie north show, hannity, and o'reilly, but in the c.5 minutes per 15 devoted to commercials in the usa, we used to get a world weather loop, now we get little nuggets, a ridiculously large proporton of which are about: (sit down before reading further)

natural remedies, solar energy, all kinds of green stories, herbal lore.

go figure...

to imagine the kind of mind that could sit through fox programming interspersed with pharma ads....

can't. go. there.

steven king time

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 08:55:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rupert decided about two months ago that his favorite color was green.  That was probably the color of the faces of some of his highly paid Foaminators. He reportedly decided it was good business. If it lets him run ads for green products it seems like an improvement.  I, however, have alternatives, poor though they be, so I don't watch Faux News.  I'll put on the hair shirt to read the Economist, but that is the upper limit of my gag reflex.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 09:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
heh-

if i was living stateside, i wouldn't need to watch fox, it'd be happening right outside the window!

but i would read the economist, not because i think their mission is noble, but because they write the densest coverage.

dense both ways!

frothy fox or turgid economist, pretty much the same agenda...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 01:52:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, Fox only qualifies as dense in one sense.  Your reasons are the same as mine for the Economist.  I hold my nose and read it for the diamonds in the dung hill.  I especially appreciate their international coverage.  Been reading it off and on since 1965, when I read all coverage from 1919 to 1924 on the "French Occupation of the Rhur" for a grad seminar.  Topic was Reaction of British Quality Press to.... So I also got familiar with the Nation, the Observer and others.  Certainly don't read it cause I agree with their views.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 03:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know either.

After four decades of working for change on the macro-scale, and failing miserably, I've decided to concentrate on my family, friends, and community.  That's where I can be effective.  

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bork! Bork! Bork!

by ATinNM on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 12:39:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bingo.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 01:01:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is, of course, the Achilles Heel of Bushonomics, which is to capture all productivity gains as profits, on average, rather than dividing them between profits and wages ... under a capitalist version of a monetary production economy, recipients of profit income receive them due to holding financial wealth assets. Therefore, a substantial portion of income channeled into profits goes into accumulating financial wealth ...

... which can either be intermediated into newly created financial assets or can be used to bid for existing financial assets.

Creating a new financial asset needs somebody accept a new financial liability.

... and so with a growing share of income diverted away from the income recipients who will reliably spend it on consumption, the difference was made up by creating new wealth assets in the form of extending additional credit to wage earners.

And that is quite obviously sooner or later going to be Ponzi finance, since those entering into the liability side are not receiving the income gains to permit steady-state service of those financial obligations.

Of course, it was the same -onomics when it was Clintonomics before that and Bushonomics before that and Reaganomics before that, but it was under the current Resident that the final target was achieved of, on average, capturing all productivity gains as profit gains.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 10:20:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is, of course, the Achilles Heel of Bushonomics, which is to capture all productivity gains as profits, on average, rather than dividing them between profits and wages ......

Of course, it was the same -onomics when it was Clintonomics before that and Bushonomics before that and Reaganomics before that, but it was under the current Resident that the final target was achieved of, on average, capturing all productivity gains as profit gains.

Sad but true.  Even sadder is that I cannot recall any coverage that actually analyzed that fact, either on TV, including PBS, or in print media that I have followed over that entire time span.  All I recall is coverage of the fact that wages have stopped increasing and income distribution has become more skewed.  

Our media seems effectively inhibited from "connecting the dots."  Even now.  Anyone who did effectively connect the dots in the media would certainly be attacked by the RW as "engaging in class warfare."

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 11:09:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes ... it would seem that is part of the driving force for constant spurious accusations of class warfare anytime anyone comes close to recognizing that the class assault has been going on for three decades and the "class warfare" charge amounts to an accusation that someone in the wage-earning 95% of the population is trying to defend themselves and their peers.

"The Great U-Turn" was an earlier work that looked at the transition out of the Fordist era into the third era of globalisation (though I am not sure it was widely known as the third era of globalisation at the time that The Great U-Turn was written).


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 12:59:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FWIW, and well-known too:

In Class Warfare, Guess Which Class Is Winning - New York Times

"There's class warfare, all right," Mr. Buffett said, "but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 03:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thats right.  He and Bill Gates Sr. have spoken out recently.  I even commented about Buffet's challenge to other executives to show that they paid a greater portion of their income in taxes than did their secretaries!  How soon I forget.  Do you think that even these comments have been well or widely covered?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 07:41:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the NYT interview I quoted from, the full sequence is (my bold):

In Class Warfare, Guess Which Class Is Winning - New York Times

It turned out that Mr. Buffett, with immense income from dividends and capital gains, paid far, far less as a fraction of his income than the secretaries or the clerks or anyone else in his office. Further, in conversation it came up that Mr. Buffett doesn't use any tax planning at all. He just pays as the Internal Revenue Code requires. "How can this be fair?" he asked of how little he pays relative to his employees. "How can this be right?"

Even though I agreed with him, I warned that whenever someone tried to raise the issue, he or she was accused of fomenting class warfare.

"There's class warfare, all right," Mr. Buffett said, "but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

By "well-known", I meant among ETers, since it has been cited here, in this op-ed particularly:

European Tribune - France is not in decline and the last thing it needs is 'reform'

Warren Buffett said that what the wealthy in the US are carrying out - and winning - is class struggle.

Known to the general public, though, I doubt it.


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 02:12:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The present period has been called a "second gilded age". Was 100% profit capture also achieved by the Robber Barons during the first Gilded Age?

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 09:16:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure we can know that ... however, during the last age of globalization, the US was a low-wage country with an almost indefinite labor supply available to anyone who could bid it off the farm, its not like there was a large wage share available to be captured in the US during the late 1800's.

Further, the focus during the period of railroadification of the US seems to have been on converting small local monopoly profits in small local markets into national monopoly profits ... and so much of the leverage to increase per unit monopoly rents was on the side of reducing costs through scale economies.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 02:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
during the last age of globalization, the US was a low-wage country

compared to what and when? The US had some of the highest wages in the world at the turn of the century.

by MarekNYC on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 02:45:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Henry Ford was possibly the first US entrepreneur to pay well above prevailing wage rates.  I believe this started with or shortly after his introduction of the assembly line, ca. 1908.  Prior to 1900 the USA was, as Polanyi described, a land where one had, effectively, "free labor"- James Fisk was infamous for importing various nationalities to pit against one another, Hungarians vs. Italians, etc, "free land"-there were homesteads available for the taking until about 1900, and "free money"-dig up gold or silver and have it minted.  By his analysis, economics being the allocation of various scarce resources amongst various competing ends, economics didn't apply until land, labor and money became scarce.

I would expect that skilled workers in "high tech" areas such as electrical generation and distribution, telephone distribution and maintenance, etc. paid well above subsistence levels.  The lower end of the labor spectrum was fertile ground for the muck-rakers and for social activists such as Jacob Riis, and Margaret Sanger.  

The infamous shirt factory fire in which large numbers of women perished because the doors were locked and the windows barred, Riis's photographs and more was used by the Progressive Republicans, with whom Theodore Roosevelt aligned himself, to pass a series of reforms, including the creation of the FDA and legal actions against the Trusts, resulting in the breakup of Standard Oil, etc.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 12:15:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Real wages sucked everywhere for workers in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, they sucked a bit less in the US. They were also going up in all the major industrial economies in that period (e.g. roughly doubling in England over the latter half of the nineteenth century according to Jurgen Kuczynski's figures, going up by about forty percent in the US in the two decades preceding WWI according to the NBER). Ford and stockmarket boom notwithstanding, wages were fairly stagnant in the twenties.
by MarekNYC on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:30:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On the producivity/demand question, Crotty has a 2002 article, Why Do Global Markets Suffer From Chronic Excess Capacity?

The explanation for the long-term character of excess capacity presented here integrates insights from both Joseph Schumpeter and Karl Marx and can be summarized as follows. The shift to neoliberal policies in most of the world beginning in the late 1970s created additional impediments to demand growth in a world economy already reeling from two oil price shocks and restrictive macro policy imposed in response to the inflation they caused. Sluggish demand growth in turn led to a sharp rise in excess capacity in globally contested industries. Meanwhile, liberalization raised competitive intensity across the globe by eliminating existing barriers to the movement of goods and money across borders that protected the market power of national oligopolies. High initial excess capacity combined with the collapse of barriers to the free movement of capital triggered competitive wars for survival. As is explained below, this led firms to adopt policies that both further constrained global demand growth and expanded industry capacity at a pace faster than would be understandable within either a neoclassical or Keynesian framework, reproducing excess capacity. Global neoliberalism has thus unleashed a destructive dynamic interaction between its macro and micro levels of activity, a kind of vicious economic circle.

If I get it right (?), the very freedom globalisation accorded, which allowed wage arbitrage to keep real incomes down for the masses (on which the venerable AT is of course right), also produced competitve conditions that led to a capacity race.

All which doesn't tell us how to stop the vicious circle...

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 6th, 2008 at 04:36:50 PM EST
How to do it technically or how to do it politically?

How to do it technically is straightforward, since its a problem we've already solved once, with many fits and starts and trials and errors, and requiring not one but two depressions to get the whole system in place ...

(1) A de facto or de jure job guarantee for all or almost all of the population

(2) Strong formal support for the bargaining power of organized labor unions to negotiate with organized capital unions, aka commercial corporations.

(3) The government willing to step in as a demander of last resort.

(4) Liberalized trade flows and heavily regulated international capital flows, under stabilized exchange rates.

The interesting problem is not how to solve the recreation of the crisis that brought an end to the first wave of globalization, but how to do it in a context where abundant supplies of neither cheap energy nor natural waste assimilation capacity can be assumed.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 10:26:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BruceMcF:
its a problem we've already solved once

It wasn't really solved once. Other factors intervened and made some loosening essential, but it was a temporary strategic concession, not a surrender.

The problem can't be solved by any conventional economic theories, because conventional economic theories are the problem. No matter how you rearrange the deckchairs, you're still trying to steer the Titanic.

A solution needs a completely new outlook based on a completely new psychology and new relationships between all of the players. That's not likely until the core features of the model are replaced.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 11:25:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I repeat:
How to do it technically or how to do it politically?

How to do it technically is straightforward, since its a problem we've already solved once, ...

How to entrench the technical solution to the problem in a durable system of political institutions, that problem has not really been solved ... as large fortunes came to be headed by larger numbers of those who did not live through the Great Depression, it did become clear that the political support for Fordism was much more in the nature of a partial cease fire than any form of surrender.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 01:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Liberalized trade flows and heavily regulated international capital flows

One of my hobby horses: "free movement of capital" is not "free trade".

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 09:05:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Crotty

Sluggish demand growth in turn led to a sharp rise in excess capacity in globally contested industries.

I think he has the causality backwards.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 02:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In what way? Increasing or decreasing production, which is to say the utilization of some of the capacity, that can obviously impact on demand growth.

For a given level of output, how would "how far away it is from capacity" have any substantial negative impact on demand?

Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 02:33:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Following Hobson, the "excess savings" by the rich resulted from being unwilling to share productivity gains with the laborers. In Hobson's time those savings were invested in imperial adventures and in the infrastructure of empire.  In our time that was the intent going into Iraq and is the reason for pressuring the Iraqi government to let US multi-nationals back into the oil fields.  

"Financialization" with its bubbles also has offered elites avenues of investment from which they could differentially profit through "lack of transparency," especially for those further down the feeding chain.  They certainly have not intended to or succeeded in increasing consumption by providing higher wages to those below the top 10%.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 03:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... that the "act" of receiving income and not spending it, but rather handing it over to someone else to spend in return for a financial asset, is a driver of economic activity.

There was, indeed, a time when it was. During the railroadification of the United States, after the Civil War, a large share of railroad bonds were bought on creation and held to maturity, so that it was possible to think of buying a bond as the handing over of purchasing power to the going concern that was building a railroad.

But that was more than a century ago.

When well over 95% of financial assets bought and sold on capital markets are used financial assets bought from their previous owners who themselves bought them used from their previous owners ... and so on ... that is, for around about a century now ... wealth accumulation in financial assets now has only the most tenuous demand-side ties with economic activity.

So, IOW, ever since the children of the robber barons figured out how to liquidate the value of their inheritance using financial markets, it has been safe to treat saving as a residual of income that has not been consumed.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 03:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
World GDP growth averaged 3.3% a year in the early Neoliberal period of the 1980s, then slowed dramatically to 2.3% from 1990-99 as Neoliberalism strengthened, making the 1990s by far the slowest growth decade of the post war era

Again from 2000 (and it would be interesting to see an analysis of developments hence), CEPR's,
The Emperor Has No Growth: Declining Economic Growth Rates in the Era of Globalization:

- From 1960-1980, output per person grew by an average, among countries, of 83%. For 1980-2000, the average growth of output per person was 33%.
  • Mexico would have nearly twice as much income per person today if not for the growth slowdown of the last two decades; Brazil would have much more than twice its current per capita income.
  • Eighty-nine countries - 77%, or more than three-fourths - saw their per capita rate of growth fall by at least five percentage points from the period (1960-1980) to the period (1980-2000).
  • Only 14 countries - 13% - saw their per capita rate of growth rise by that much from (1960- 1980) to (1980-2000).
  • In Latin America, GDP per capita grew by 75% from 1960-1980, whereas from 1980-1998 it has risen only 6%. For sub-Saharan Africa, GDP per capita grew by 36% in the first period, while it has since fallen by 15%.

Even where high growth rates were achieved, as in Southeast Asia, they were still better in the earlier period. The only regional exception to this trend was East Asia, which grew faster from 1980 to 1998 than in the previous period. But this is due to the quadrupling of GDP, over the last two decades, in China (which has 83% of the population of East Asia).

2000-2005 world gdp growth numbers are around 3% annually, it seems, according to one UN organization at least.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 10:59:52 AM EST
From the 2000 CEPR report cited.

Globalization and the policies of its most powerful advocates, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, have come under increasing criticism in recent years. In the United States, the median real wage is about the same today as it was 27 years ago. This means that the majority of the labor force has failed to share in the gains from economic growth over the last 27 years. That is drastically different from the previous 27 years, during which the typical wage
increased by about 80% in real terms.

The only regional exception to this trend was East Asia, which grew faster from 1980 to 1998 than in the previous period. But this is due to the quadrupling of GDP, over the last two decades, in China (which has 83% of the population of East Asia).

In short, there is no region of the world that the Bank or Fund can point to as having succeeded through adopting the policies that they promote-- or in many cases, impose---in borrowing countries. (They are understandably reluctant to claim credit for China, which maintains a non-convertible currency, state control over its banking system, and other major
violations of IMF/Bank prescriptions).

If these facts were well known, the entire debate over globalization would change dramatically. The growth of output per person is not the only economic objective, nor is it necessarily the most important one in all circumstances. Nonetheless it is what allows a society
to achieve a rising standard of living. For most people in the poorer countries of the world, economic growth offers the only hope that their children and grandchildren might escape from crushing poverty.

Well, so much for "right wing media bias!"

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 11:24:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course I meant "left wing media bias."  Geeez, it is getting to the point that I am subject to the comment my father used to make about my mother when she would misspeak: "You have to take her for what she means,  not for what she says."  And I even looked at the comment before posting!  Talk about seeing what you intended to say...

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 11:46:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In the case of Latin America this analysis is misleading. The collapse of growth rates preceded the shift to the neoliberal model rather than the other way around. In fact it was the reason why the so called Washington Consensus became politically palatable. Secondly, the timelines are off - in the first half of the eighties the big Latin American economies had not yet adopted neoliberal policies - that came in the late eighties and early nineties. The rest is correct - neoliberalism has not delivered the goods.
by MarekNYC on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 01:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
While I certainly have not made an academic study of the "Latin American Debt Crisis," my memory is that during the first part of the 80s the 1st world bankers were busy fitting out 2nd and 3rd world countries with as much debt as they could possibly, under the best scenario, stagger down the road with.  There was more than a little evidence that this was in part accomplished by turning a blind eye, or worse, to looting of loan proceeds by local elites.  That was the bait phase.

When the best scenario didn't materialize and the loans went south it was "bad 2nd and 3rd world" and bring in the World Bank and IMF.  Oh, and let US Gov bail out the poor bankers.  The local elites got to keep their ill-gotten gains--honor amongst thieves, and some of the banks suffered.  But the biggest hit was to the middle and lower class populations of countries such as Argentina.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 03:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For Brazil, that original debt was earlier, and the encouragement to roll the debt over after the first Oil Price Shock left Brazil unable to pay was as a result of having to be able to offer attractive rates of return to attract the proceeds of the first Oil Price Shock.

Mexico's "La Crisas" was the early 80's ... maybe 1981? I was in Mexico at the time, oddly enough, but can't recall if that was 81 or 82.

And, yes, it was under José López Portillo (President 1976-1982) that Mexico "discovered" big new oil reserves and started pell mell exploitation of them, using the new "discoveries" to attract foreign lending.

Portillo's enemies accused him of rampant corruption, when he was just a sentimentalist, as shown by the $2m mansion in Acapulco that he bought for his mistress.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 10:26:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I knew CEPR had more on this - a broader comparison from CEPR: "The Scorecard on Globalization 1980-2000: Twenty Years of Diminished Progress"

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake
by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 05:44:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am certain you did.  But what I put in drove the point home so clearly that I couldn't resist.  It's a lot to quote, so I did the dirty deed for you.  Hope you don't mind too much.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 07:36:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mind? why would I? Well done, actually!

I just meant to post the second article together with the first, but couldn't track it down at that time. The second article contains extra data on trends in health and education during the same periods. And lots of charts, something always appreciated around here, ... ;-)

(Mind you I can think of a number of issues with their health comparisons i.e. the fact that an increase in life expectancy is not linear with respect to effort. I.e. bringing average life expectancy up from 40 to 60 in a given country might be a lot "easier" than raising the life expectancy from 60 to 80 in the same country, and thus "year of l.e. added per years elapsed" seems to me a bit questionable as a measure)

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Mon Jul 7th, 2008 at 07:55:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, on life expectancy there's a law of diminishing returns. A life expectancy at birth of 40 means, in fact, that there's a great deal of infantile mortality bringing down the average. Basic measures of hygiene and neo-natal care can produce an immediate improvement. In the higher life expectancies, however, gains are made by keeping ageing adults alive longer, a more difficult proposition.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 02:42:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmm, are all other things equal before and after 1980?

The problem with these comparisons across time is that they don't answer the question of whether the economy would have fared better without "free market" policies.

In fact, the question is counterfactual. We'd need a parallel universe where Thatcher and Reagan didn't implement Friedmanite economic policies to be able to quantify their effect.

When the capital development of a country becomes a by-product of the activities of a casino, the job is likely to be ill-done. — John M. Keynes

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 09:02:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, they address that in the second paper I linked to:

"As noted above, this evidence does not prove that the policies associated with globalization were responsible for the deterioration in performance. But it does present a very strong prima facie case that some structural and policy changes implemented during the last two decades are at least partly responsible for these declines...

...For most of the low and middle-income countries, the link between policy and outcome remains to be shown. But in any case, there is certainly no evidence in this data that the policies associated with globalization have improved outcomes for developing countries. To argue that this is the case, proponents of these policies would need to show that outcomes would have been even worse in the era of globalization, if developing countries had not adopted these policies.

If the basic facts presented in this paper were well known, discussions of globalization and international economic policy would look very different than the ones we see today. At the very least, the burden of proof would be squarely placed on those who claim success -- by any available measure of human well-being -- for the last two decades of the experiment in globalization. By contrast, in most of the discussions now held, it is assumed that this experiment has largely succeeded, and those who challenge this assumption must bear a high, often insurmountable burden of proof.

So they acknowledge that this isn't proof, but they argue that the numbers offered pass the counter-factual ball to the other side of the debating table.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 11:02:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this analysis is not proving anything. In the absense of technical or organisatorical or whatsoever innovation, which certainly profits from globalisation, my first order expectation of growth would be kind of building the economy up and then a static state. The idea that the economy grows exponential over the long term is just ridiculous. A hairdresser won't get much more productive over time at all. There maybe some industrial branches where you can go on and on and invest capital to increase productivity, but certainly there is a decline in what productivity increase you get even there for the buck and the analysis does even take GDP and not GDP/capita.
While the neoclassic economists might work with assumptions, which are simply not valid for many poor countries, I think that one reason for the sluggish growth in Africa and not-east Asia, is, that the we were not neoliberal enough. Trade is good, but if poor countries (who may indeed need some protectionist measures) open their markets to the rich nations, but the rich nations don't open their markets to the poor nations (which, as most poor nations start with agricultural products in the beginning, was the case) it can't work. And yes, there were lots of neoclassical economists, telling that.
China was big enough to accept only deals, which gave rather good terms for them. Due to their size, their political power and their political stability, they were in a much better position to make deals, than most African nations. And especially the political stability is something you need, when you don't want export only agricultural goods, because you need long term investment in fabrics.

However, this system tends to reduce aggregate demand, because the needs of the wealthy are actually quite constrained. And the needs of the non-wealthy cannot create "economic growth" because they have no wealth.
It tends to reduce interest for debt so long, until there is someone willing to go into debt and thereby creating demand. A problem however indeed was the different propensity to do so across different nations.
James Crotty's assertion on interes rates ignores certainly some very important points. He compares 10 year bonds, while the central banks control mostly the short term rates. My reading on what his time bunches.
50-70: inflation is, despite higher than today, reasonable contained and so are inflation expectations.
71-82: inflation expectations tend to be seriously lower than inflation, due to the good performance before. Therefore the very low real rates.
83-94: the central banks squeeze out inflation of the system. As always (and so today, long term inflation expectations are well anchored below 2% despite inflation at ~4%), it takes some time until inflation expectations adjust to inflation. Therefore the real rates tend to be rather high.
It is interesting that in paper written in 2000 he stops 94, despite global trade boomed even more in the 90s than before, because the CBs were eventually sucessful in bringing down inflation expectations, and the 10 year rates in the late 90s were low, and are today e.g. in the US negative. Probably Crotty worships Greenspan's performance on the issue of setting rates.

His datings are anyhow strange. Global trade as I said has increased strongly most recently, what about domestic neoliberalism? In Germany, the states share of GDP was by far the lowest in the era 50-70 (around 35%), independent if compared with 71-82 (around 47%), 83-94 (around 47% with a dip in the late 80s to 43%) or  the late 90s (the most state dominated economy we ever had in the Federal Republic of Germany). Only most recently, since about 2004, we have a sharp decline in the state's share. In many European countries it will not look very much different. If, as Crotty was at the time at a US university, you focus on the US, you may get different results. But that is irrelevant, as he speaks about the globe and as even Europeans (not to speak of the fact, that in the 80s more people lived in officially communist countries than allies of the west) had no real neoliberal policies until the end of the 80s, 94 - 2000(8) would have been the most relevant time.

Furthermore international trade and domestic deregulation are not necessarily compounded. To put it into one basket will end up with protectionist measures, which won't give poor nations the possibility to follow the mercantilist way to wealth, which was gone before by Germany and the USA (both in the 19th century) and Japan and the 'Asian Tiger' states and currently China. Any kind of lending and health care regulation, Tobin tax, public ownership of companies, income redistribution via taxes, and much more, is completely independent of the question, if you allow trade with other nations.


Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 8th, 2008 at 08:24:13 PM EST
The idea that the economy grows exponential over the long term is just ridiculous.

But it is, never the less, the claim made by pro-"globalisation" activists, and thus the claim they need to support.

As you rightly point out, this claim is prima facie idiocy and pointing out that they have failed to achieve their impossible objective is an exercise in redundancy. But it is the goal they set themselves. And if our political enemies offers a big, fat, sitting target to attack by setting impossible goals for himself, then I certainly don't think we should hold back our fire just because it's unsportsmanlike to fight a battle of wits against someone who is unarmed.

Trade is good, but if poor countries (who may indeed need some protectionist measures) open their markets to the rich nations, but the rich nations don't open their markets to the poor nations (which, as most poor nations start with agricultural products in the beginning, was the case) it can't work. And yes, there were lots of neoclassical economists, telling that.

Of course. That part is uncontroversial. But that's only one side of the "globalisation" coin. The other side is free movement of capital, which has the empirically proven (and relatively well-understood) effect of making everyone poorer except the fatcats. I don't think that anyone here or elsewhere objects to a full implementation of free trade. It's the free movement of capital that's controversial.

It tends to reduce interest for debt so long, until there is someone willing to go into debt and thereby creating demand. A problem however indeed was the different propensity to do so across different nations.

Well, that and the fact that the borrowers end up in debt slavery if the trend continues long enough.

Any kind of lending and health care regulation, Tobin tax, public ownership of companies, income redistribution via taxes, and much more, is completely independent of the question, if you allow trade with other nations.

Because you understand "trade" to mean "exchange of finished goods between countries" - the "globalisation" crowd understand it to be "exchange of finished goods and unrestricted movement of capital between countries." In the former definition of trade, you are correct. In the latter, not so much, as the current German crackdown on Lichtenstein seems to indicate.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:35:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Martin:
A hairdresser won't get much more productive over time at all.

That depends what you mean byu "productive".

Most hairdressers become better hairdressers over time.

Some - a few - become exceedingly in demand quasi celebrities and end up as major businesses.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:48:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OTOH, hairdressers eventually retire, taking their experience with them, minus the part they manage to impart on their students. So for hairdressers to in aggregate get better at what they do, at least one of two things must happen:

  1. Hairdressers can discover new ways of doing things that make them better at what they do and teach those to their students.

  2. Hairdressers can get better at teaching their students so the students acquire a higher baseline from which they can build their own experience.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam
by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 04:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The main argument in favor of less regulated commerce, both domestically, in the form of deregulation, and internationally, via more liberal trade regimes, is that it generates higher growth.

[spluttering noises]  But surely this should be the best argument against it, and against usury-capitalism in general...  How many times must it be said:  growth without limits, on a finite planet, is suicidal;  "growth" under industrial capitalism equals the accelerating liquidation of biotic and mineral resources.

Here's an essay by Berry that "strikes the root" so to speak.

The problem with us is not only prodigal extravagance but also an assumed limitlessness [...]  The world-ending fire of industrial fundamentalism may already be burning in our furnaces and engines, but if it will burn for a hundred more years, that will be fine. Surely it would be better to intend straightforwardly to contain the fire and eventually put it out! But once greed has been made an honorable motive, then you have an economy without limits. It has no place for temperance or thrift or the ecological law of return. It will do anything. It is monstrous by definition.

In keeping with our unrestrained consumptiveness, the commonly accepted basis of our economy is the supposed possibility of limitless growth, limitless wants, limitless wealth, limitless natural resources, limitless energy, and limitless debt. [...]

This fantasy of limitlessness perhaps arose from the coincidence of the Industrial Revolution with the suddenly exploitable resources of the New World—though how the supposed limitlessness of resources can be reconciled with their exhaustion is not clear. [...]

Our national faith so far has been: “There’s always more.” Our true religion is a sort of autistic industrialism. People of intelligence and ability seem now to be genuinely embarrassed by any solution to any problem that does not involve high technology, a great expenditure of energy, or a big machine. Thus an X marked on a paper ballot no longer fulfills our idea of voting. One problem with this state of affairs is that the work now most needing to be done—that of neighborliness and caretaking—cannot be done by remote control with the greatest power on the largest scale. A second problem is that the economic fantasy of limitlessness in a limited world calls fearfully into question the value of our monetary wealth, which does not reliably stand for the real wealth of land, resources, and workmanship but instead wastes and depletes it.

That human limitlessness is a fantasy means, obviously, that its life expectancy is limited. There is now a growing perception, and not just among a few experts, that we are entering a time of inescapable limits. We are not likely to be granted another world to plunder in compensation for our pillage of this one. Nor are we likely to believe much longer in our ability to outsmart, by means of science and technology, our economic stupidity. The hope that we can cure the ills of industrialism by the homeopathy of more technology seems at last to be losing status. We are, in short, coming under pressure to understand ourselves as limited creatures in a limited world.

No economic doctrine that promises Growth is sane or practical in a world of limited resources -- not without mass slaughter of some designated group of Others so as to appropriate their goods, land, etc. to enable Growth for Us.  And this is exactly what is happening -- in slo-mo right now, but gathering speed as the crash of (especially) biotic resources continues.

I have been reading Gary Nabhan's book on the traditional foodways of "Salmon Nation" (the coastline of NW America for which the salmon are a keystone species.  Practically every traditional food species in this region is now depleted, endangered, or extinct.  And this is on a continent whose dominant caste (the Anglo invaders) proudly call themselves the wealthiest people on Earth.  This is not wealth.  This is insanity.  This is a derelict burning his own coat to stay warm, and congratulating himself on his cleverness for so doing.

As Berry notes, trenchant as ever:

The entire contraption of “Unbridled Energy” is supported only by a rote optimism: “The United States has 250 billion tons of recoverable coal reserves—enough to last 100 years even at double the current rate of consumption.” We humans have inhabited the earth for many thousands of years, and now we can look forward to surviving for another hundred by doubling our consumption of coal? This is national security?

The issue with neoliberalism is not that it failed to deliver Growth -- nothing, no cult, no theory, can deliver general Growth in a closed system -- but that it delivered even more inequality, violence, injustice and vandalism than competing theories, even though those competing theories were equally fantastical and destructive at heart.

It is time we came fully to grips with Berry's imho accurate observation that ours is at heart a culture of conquest and expansion;  that (reverting to R Manning for a moment) the wheat/beef agricultural model on which our culture rests has always, repeatedly over millennia, exhausted the soil and driven us to destroy and usurp our neighbours;  that the cultural mythos of expansion, Growth, and "the frontier" is so deeply embedded in our guts that we may very well pull a Jared Diamond Collapse rather than re-evaluate our premises and learn to live within our means.  And this pernicious notion of Limitlessness haunts our every endeavour and vitiates all our "good intentions":  when asked to reduce out fossil footprint, our instinctive response is to go out and buy a Prius -- i.e. consume more resources, acquire more, spend more, occupy more space and time, get a new shiny toy, steal more resources from neighbours and from the future.  It's always about More and New.

We are imho in a poor position to critique neoliberalism if we still believe in Growth and are still debating over how best to enable it.   The great challenge of our time is to grow up and come to terms with limits;  continuing to daydream about infinite growth only wastes time that we could have spent applying some braking action before the crash.  We might even divide the challenge of our time into two great efforts -- one is Repair, or trying to fix the dreadful damage we have already done;  the other is Housekeeping, or learning to live within our means and make the best of what we have.

Neither of these efforts will be undertaken seriously so long as we daydream about a world without limits, and institutionalise that daydream in economic theories based on exponentially compounding interest... theories deriving from a brief blip in history when a transient technological and epidemiological advantage made my Anglo ancestors the most successful thieves and marauders in human history.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 03:20:18 PM EST
As usual.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Wed Jul 9th, 2008 at 07:05:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sorry for the somewhat incoherent presentation.  I'm spending less time in front of the small screen than I used to, which is probably a Good Thing but means less leisurely composition and more likelihood of typos (there are at least 2 bad ones, grrr).

Berry's comment about money becoming divorced from real wealth is, I think, very important.  I heard recently that the total amount of debt in the (US?) economy exceeds the total amount of money in circulation.  this is disturbing if true, but perhaps an inevitable consequence of compound interest with higher rates on debt than on savings?  that is, debt will always outpace "wealth", with the only solution [cue: hollow laughter] being the accelerating liquidation of resources (the conversion of living systems into Product) at a rate that outpaces the compounding interest?  this accelerated liquidation was possible for a brief period (3 centuries or so) when the AngloEuros pillaged 2 continents (N and S America) at very low cost.  and why low cost?  thanks to the decimation of the original inhabitants by Euro diseases, there was little resistance; and the rollout of the fossil-based technologies of industrialism enabled the ever-more-efficient pillaging so as to maintain the acceleration...

so... the end result of super-efficient pillaging is a desert, a wasteland.  we're on our way there.  if I may paraphrase a classic quote:

"they have made a desert, and called it wealth."


The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Thu Jul 10th, 2008 at 02:34:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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