European Tribune

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 26. August

by Fran
Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:38:20 PM EST

On this date in history:

1885 - Jules Romains, a French poet and writer and the founder of the Unanimism literary movement, was born. (d. 1972)

More here and video


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EUROPE

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:39:14 PM EST
EUobserver: EU secularism undermined Lisbon, Irish cardinal says

Europe's attempts to keep religion away from the public domain was one of the reasons the Irish rejected the EU's new Lisbon treaty, the country's top Catholic church figure, cardinal Sean Brady, has suggested.

Speaking at the Humbert Summer School in Co Mayo on Sunday (24 August), the cleric said the EU's prevailing culture and social agenda seems to be driven by the secular tradition "rather than by the Christian memory and heritage of the vast majority of member states," the Irish Times reported.

 "As the recent referendum on the Lisbon treaty in Ireland suggests, at least some of those who were previously enthusiastic about the founding aims of the EU, both social and economic, are now expressing unease," he added.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bollocks. Anyone voting No on that basis was going to vote no for a hundred other reasons. Self-serving git.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a classic case of post-hoc rationalisation. A majority voted NO.  A majority in Ireland are (at least nominally) Catholic.  I am the leader of Catholics in Ireland.  Therefore Catholics voted no because the Lisbon  Treaty wasn't sufficiently Catholic.  Now if you want MY people to support you in any re-vote, you are going to have to take my/our concerns on board.  Lets start with abortion, civil partnerships, Church control of schools...

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:08:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I love the way these whiners always make it about them.

Please keep europe secular. The point about non-secular is not that you promote religion to the detriment of atheism, but you promote a religion, or in this case, one particular brand of christianity, to the detriment of all other christianities as well as other religions.

That's never gonna work in a community as diverse as the EU. Just look at all the different versions of christianity, most of which have serious doctrinal issues with regard to the existence of the others. Privileging the contradictions of religion, let alone of a religion, would be a disaster.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:20:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be funny if we didn't have people like Sarko, surrounded by ultra-Catholic advisors, proclaiming the same stuff about the Christian tradition of Europe.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:47:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | Poland probes 'secret CIA jail'

Prosecutors in Poland are investigating allegations that the American CIA interrogated terrorist suspects at a secret jail on Polish soil.

The investigation began three weeks ago, one prosecutor told Polish media.

A report released in June 2007 by the Council of Europe said the CIA ran secret jails in Poland and Romania in 2003-2005, to hold al-Qaeda suspects.

Polish and Romanian officials denied the claim. The secret CIA operation was known as "extraordinary rendition".

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:45:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Analysis: EU Faces Renewed Split in Ties to Russia | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 26.08.2008
French President Sarkozy wants to present a united Europe at an upcoming summit on Georgia but risks inflaming differences between members. Warsaw, in particular, wants the EU to take a hard line in EU-Russia relations.

By announcing the EU summit in Brussels next Monday, Sept. 1,  Sarkozy  wants to say clearly to Moscow that the European Union is "a force  which has to dealt with," and that agreements made with him by  Russian President Dmitry Medvedev must be honored, a French  diplomat told the AFP news agency on Monday, Aug. 25.

 

The six-point peace plan brokered by Sarkozy, whose country currently holds the EU's rotating presidency, has been criticized in some European capitals as being too vague, too Moscow-friendly and organized with too little consultation.

 

After Russia failed to withdraw all its troops from Georgia, a key point of the cease-fire, the French president "realized that the Russians were exploiting the ambiguous margins of the text and that there was a risk of a loss of credibility for the EU and the French presidency," European Policy Center analyst Antonio Missiroli told AFP.

 

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:47:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd be interested to know more about the split within the German government between Merkel (Georgia in NATO) and the Foreign Affairs Minister.

Because if there is unanimity in Europe about taking Georgia in this crazy organisation, we're in for hard times :
Next, take in Ukraine, tell Russia to get the hell out of Sebastopol, then sit back and enjoy the fireworks !

by balbuz on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 03:08:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Guardian - Victor Yushchenko - Ukraine's Atlantic future

Ukraine has become a hostage in the war waged by Russia. This has prompted Ukrainian authorities and all our people, including those living in the Crimea, to ponder the dangers emanating from the fact that the Russian Black Sea fleet is based on our territory
[...]
This conflict has proved once again that the best means of ensuring the national security of Ukraine and other countries is to participate in the collective security system of free democratic nations, exemplified today by Nato. In accordance with national legislation and its foreign policy priorities, Ukraine will continue following the path of Euro-Atlantic integration. This is the path of democracy, freedom and independence.

I hope there are wiser heads in NATO to realise this is really not a good idea

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:29:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You can understand why HE wants to secure Ukraine's independence from Russia.  But that does not mean it is in Europe's interest to pursue a confrontational approach to Russia.

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:13:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It doesn't mean that a majority of the Ukrainian people want NATO membership, or a confrontation with Russia, either. See the Party of the Regions...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:30:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm  aware he leads the pro-western party  although I get conflicting figures as to what % of Ukraine supports closer ties to Moscow

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:37:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the Party of the Regions is "Pro-Russia", it's the largest party by national vote (about 1/3) in the last two parliamentary elections, and its vote distribution looks like

So scaring people with the fact that Crimea hosts the Russian fleet may not work all that well in Crimea itself...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:45:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems to me he is playing with fire.  And if he thinks Nato is going to come to his aid if Russia invades or takes the Crimea he is crazy.   I know he suspects Russia tried to poison him and so it is understandable he should be anti-Russian.   But is he acting in the Ukraine's best interest?

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:49:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
PS - many thanks

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:55:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The most recent development is the recognition of the two Georgian provinces as independent by Russia. Russia has also menaced to cut off supply routes to Afghanistan for the NATO coalition, a point made last week by General Fabio Mini in la Repubblica.

I begin to wonder if Georgia's unilateral attack was a deliberate American gamble, very much a neo-con gambit. It has certainly upset the NATO. It is obvious that whether the USA wants it or not they are deeply sided with the new members versus the old core members.

Russia's move today will likely a great deal of tension within the NATO between vindictive hawks and the realists.

Who will next recognize the independance of South Ossetsia and Abkhazia? If China were to do so it would be very much an international quandry. Certainly we can expect Syria and Venezuela to do so for what little that is worth.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:48:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Please read  Anti-Americans should stop masquerading as anti-war [SECOND UPDATE].  It seems to have disappeared off the radar here and in the US election cmpaign that McCain is very directly linked to the Georgian invasion of South Ossetia

Vote McCain for war without gain
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:54:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. I've been off-net for several days and didn't catch that diary.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:03:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who will next recognize the independance of South Ossetsia and Abkhazia?

Costa Rica? They recognized Kosovo, and then, to show their consistency, they also recognized Palestine,

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:00:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't pick a fight you can't finish, Mr Miliband | Anatol Lieven - Times Online
When he visits Kiev, the Foreign Secretary should remember the threats posed by Nato's drive eastwards

Before making his speech on policy towards Russia in Kiev, Ukraine, later this week David Miliband would do well to ponder some wise advice from a great predecessor. Lord Salisbury, Foreign Secretary and Prime Minister in the days of the British Empire, dispensed immense global power; but that did not mean that he liked playing about with that power.

Faced with proposals for British policy that he understood to be deeply damaging to the interests of other great powers, Salisbury would look his colleagues in the eye and ask simply: "Are you really prepared to fight? If not, do not embark on this policy."

If the events of the past fortnight in Georgia have demonstrated one thing clearly, it is that Russia will fight if it feels its vital interests under attack in the former Soviet Union - and that the West will not, and indeed cannot, given its conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:50:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The unbalance that is not made clear is that this is a critical area and critical fight for Russia, and is only a symbolic area, that is, not a critical fight for anyone else...including the Georgian (and American?) soldiers who turned tail when the Russians got too close.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 03:12:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interestingly this reveals a split in the labour party. Brown has followed the WH line completely, Milliband has been a bit more hawkish, somewhere between Bush and McCain. But Nick Brown, the Govt chief whip more or less followed the line of the article, don't pick an argument if you're not prepared to fight. Implying that we're not (thank goodness).

I've been noting that both the Indpendent and the Guardian have had substantial op-eds on this issue and have been generally swinging against the WH line and towards accpeting the russian rationale.

How this plays elsewhere I don't know (although the Telegraph is predictably anti-russian) but given how both really badly misread the situation in Iraq it's nice to see.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:36:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
RussiaToday : News : Russia ready to ditch NATO - Medvedev
President Medvedev says Russia is ready to break off relations with NATO if necessary. His comments came after a meeting with Russia's ambassador to the alliance, Dmitry Rogozin. NATO has been highly critical of Russia's handling of the conflict between Georgia and South Ossetia.

Speaking after a meeting with Rogozin in Sochi, Medvedev said there could be no confusion about NATO's plans. He also said that Russia could see through "the illusion of partnership".

"When they are building up their military forces, surrounding us with bases and drawing into the alliance more and more countries - convincing us that everything is ok... Of course we don't like it," President Medvedev said on Monday.

NATO vessels are in the Black Sea to provide humanitarian aid for Georgia and give a helping hand. Russia views their presence with suspicion.

NATO had warned that relations with Russia would not improve until it pulled all its troops out of Georgia.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:03:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Minister admits we need new Lisbon poll - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie
EUROPEAN Affairs Minister Dick Roche raised the prospect of a second Lisbon Treaty referendum last night, saying he believes it is "the appropriate response" to the country's continuing political crisis.

Mr Roche's controversial comments, in an interview with the Irish Independent, came as the Catholic Primate of All Ireland yesterday voiced fears that some Christians had voted against the treaty because the EU was becoming ever more secular in its outlook.

Mr Roche said: "My personal view is that a referendum is the appropriate response to the position we are in. This is very much a personal view at this stage."

He added: "If we want to retain our position as a constructive EU member state, we cannot simply sit on our hands, as some would have us do, and keep saying that 'No' means 'No'."



"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 07:27:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
WORLD

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:39:27 PM EST
The Associated Press: Iraqi leader insists on deadline for troop pullout

BAGHDAD (AP) -- Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki dug in his heels Monday on the future of the U.S. military in Iraq, insisting that all foreign soldiers leave the country by a specific date in 2011 and rejecting legal immunity for American troops.

Despite the tough words, al-Maliki's aides insisted a compromise could be found on the two main stumbling blocks to an accord governing the U.S. military presence in Iraq after a United Nations mandate expires at the end of the year.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
conspicuous by its absence.... the oil contracts issue!

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 05:22:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but things are looking up.  Resistance to the EMPIRE is growing.  The peons are getting uppity.  I'm a peon; I'm uppity.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:34:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok, that makes one uppity peon. Where will you find another?
by asdf on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 11:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what the net's for.  I'll start the Uppity Peon Brigade, ET Division.  Badges, neat hats, monogrammed underwear, all the bells and whistles. Have to confer with Jerome.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan coalition in major split

Former Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has pulled his PML-N party - the country's second biggest - out of the multi-party governing coalition.

He has been in dispute with the country's biggest party, the PPP, on the reinstatement of judges sacked by former President Pervez Musharraf.

The two sides also disagree over who should be the next president.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters AlertNet - Russia cruiser to test weapons in crowded Black Sea
MOSCOW, Aug 25 (Reuters) - Russia's flagship cruiser re-entered the Black Sea on Monday for weapons tests hours after the Russian military complained about the presence of U.S. and other NATO naval ships near the Georgian coast.

The 'Moskva' had led a battle group of Russian naval vessels stationed off the coastline of Georgia's breakaway region of Abkhazia during Russia's recent conflict with Georgia and sank smaller Georgian craft.

The assistant to the Russian Navy's commander-in-chief told Russian news agencies the cruiser had put to sea again two days after returning to its base at the Ukrainian port of Sevastopol.

"'Moskva' has today departed toward the Black Sea Fleet's naval training range to check its radio-controlled weapons and onboard communications systems," Captain Igor Dygalo was quoted as saying by Interfax.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's another pack of dogs in the park, quick, piss on the trees.

Are they afraid their guns don't work ? Are they afraid NATO don't know the capabilities of those guns ? Do they think NATO will run away if they fire them ?

Can military geniuses please step up from the sandpit once or twice and at least try and act like they're in 6th grade ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:40:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Apparently Georgia, encouraged by (NATO? US? Neocons? GOP?) didn't think the Russians would shoot their guns.

It's not about dogs pissing on trees as much as about America pissing on Russia's shoes.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:55:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Afghans Call for Review of Presence of Foreign Troops - NYTimes.com

KABUL, Afghanistan -- The Afghan Council of Ministers decided Monday to review the presence of international forces and agreements with foreign allies, including NATO and the United States, after a series of military operations that have caused heavy civilian losses. Skip to next paragraph Related Two Afghans Lose Posts Over Attack (August 25, 2008)

The ministers demanded a status of forces agreement, which would stipulate that the authority and responsibilities of international forces be negotiated, and said aerial bombing, illegal detentions and house raids by international forces must be stopped.

The declaration came after several military operations involving American forces resulted in heavy civilian casualties, most recently air strikes in western Afghanistan that killed more than 90 people, most of them women and children, according to a government commission.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How the HELL does the US get away with this shit?  Is this out of the Stalin/Hitler playbook?  How did my country get to this point?  I WANT ANSWERS !!!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Russian threat to Nato supply route in Afghanistan - Times Online

Russia played a trump card in its strategic poker game with the West yesterday by threatening to suspend an agreement allowing Nato to take supplies and equipment to Afghanistan through Russia and Central Asia.

The agreement was struck at a Nato summit in April to provide an alternative supply route to the road between the Afghan capital and the Pakistani border, which has come under attack from militants on both sides of the frontier this year.

Zamir Kabulov, the Russian Ambassador to Afghanistan, told The Times in an interview that he believed the deal was no longer valid because Russia suspended military cooperation with Nato last week over its support for Georgia.

Asked if the move by Russia invalidated the agreement, he said: "Of course. Why not? If there is a suspension of military cooperation, this is military cooperation."

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:58:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Der...whooops !!! Good spot Fran.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:45:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This isn't just about Afghanistan anymore, this is about Pakistan as well.

And we still have no political leadership. We are still stuck in a 19th century gunboat militarist response mindset that didn't win Afghanistan under the British or the russians and won't win it under the americans either.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:52:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Israel Releases Palestinian Prisoners - NYTimes.com

RAMALLAH, West Bank -- Israel on Monday released 198 Palestinian prisoners in a move intended to bolster the Palestinian president, Israel's negotiating partner, hours before Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice arrived in the region to try to nudge forward Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts.

Before embarking on two days of talks with top Israeli and Palestinian officials, Ms. Rice told reporters on the plane to Tel Aviv that there was a "lot of work ahead" if the sides hoped to reach a peace agreement by the end of the year.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Associated Press: Rice sees difficulties in Mideast talks

JERUSALEM (AP) -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice acknowledged Monday that a broad peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians is a long shot before President Bush leaves office, but she rejected the idea of a half-measure now.

"I think it's extremely important just to keep making forward progress, rather than trying prematurely to come to some set of conclusions," Rice said, dismissing speculation she wants both sides to sign onto a statement documenting their progress nine months into a secretive and publicly fruitless series of talks.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:56:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BURMA: No Photo Op for Gambari
BANGKOK, Aug 25 (IPS) - A United Nations-led effort to push political reform in military-ruled Burma plunged to a humiliating low on the weekend, raising questions about the effectiveness of the world body's special envoy to the country, Ibrahim Gambari.

This shift was conveyed in the way Aung San Suu Kyi, the detained pro-democracy leader, treated Gambari during his six-day mission, which ended on Aug. 23. She refused to see him on at least two occasions. It was a silence of Gandhian proportions for the Nobel Peace laureate and, for the U.N. envoy, an unprecedented snub.

Deprived, as a result, was the photo opportunity that Gambari had used after his three previous visits to Burma, over the past year, to give the impression that he was making headway with Suu Kyi in paving the road for political reform. The images of the Nigerian diplomat posing with the 63-year-old Suu Kyi, who has spent over 13 of the past 18 years under house arrest, suggested she had confidence in the U.N.

<...>

Other Burma watchers are as scathing. `'Unlike Gambari, Aung San Suu Kyi refuses to be a pawn in the junta's game,'' says Debbie Stothard of ALTSEAN, a regional body campaigning for human rights in Burma. `'This confirms that she has lost confidence in Gambari. She has said so through the only peaceful form of resistance available to her.''

Gambari's failure should `'be a wakeup call to the Security Council's members that they can no longer be conned by the junta,'' Stothard told IPS. `'Most of the key decisions makers at the U.N. used Gambari's shuttle diplomacy as an excuse not to act on Burma. But nothing has moved, and now there is little left to hope for.''



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
McCain defends his choice of ABBA as his favourite music.
Speaking to Walter Isaacson at the Aspen Institute in Colorado on Thursday, McCain found himself explaining a recent interview with Blender Magazine in which he selected ABBA's 1976 track "Dancing Queen" as his favorite song.

"What were you thinking?," Isaacson asked him, looking incredulous.

"If there is anything I am lacking in, I've got to tell you, it is taste in music and art and other great things in life," McCain joked. "I've got to say that a lot of my taste in music stopped about the time I impacted a surface-to-air missile with my own airplane and never caught up again."

I assume the rest of you realize that ABBA was not around in 1967, when McCain was shot down.

Should we have a moratorium on stories like this, and post instead on those rare occasions when he says something right?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd prefer to hear about the war crimes he committed before impacting his plane into a missile, but I would accept a moderate ration of his gaffs.

Until he is elected president of course, when I'll have to re-make the decision of never returning to the states again. Between the 2 x 45 minutes of hate on drive-time radio and the daily adulation of Comrade McNapoleon that will hit the airwaves, I don't think that I will be able to take it.

I am lacking in taste in music and art and other great things in life John "why did they think he was joking" McCain

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:37:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But...but..you can't say that !! He was a POW, although he never mentions this himself. And is thus beyond criticism or correction.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:56:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Three arrested over 'Obama plot'

At least three people have been arrested in the US over an alleged plot to kill US Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama, reports say.

The suspects planned to shoot Mr Obama in Denver, Colorado, during his speech accepting the nomination to run for US president, CBS4 TV station reports.



Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:19:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Semi-amusing first hand account at the Big Orange.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:26:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Michelle Obama's speech - the BBC's Justin 'Patriot' Webb is not impressed -

BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Democrats praise 'new hope' Obama

I thought Michelle Obama's speech was effective but not a knock-out; it doesn't settle the matters of perceived lack of patriotism and oddness and effeteness (if that is a word)

In JustinWorld, 'black' = 'odd', apparently. Also, a girly speech from a girly girl - kiddies and smiles instead of properly manly bombs and threats of nukular war.

Very unpatriotic. And effete.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:36:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
what did he want? stories of Obama torturing puppies as a child?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:52:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Knowing Justin Webb first hand I can promise you that he is totally a creature of the WaPo Republican world view. His idea of working class America is a the republican redneck NASCAR version, he goes to places where he meets bubba and hears bubba's opinions. It's not that these are not authentic americans, but they are the only sort he can find.

He was okay as a newsreader, but as a neutral in-depth journalist he fails on every count.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:01:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm getting very tired of the laziness fo British journalists repeating every cheap slagging off of the Democrats from the beltway tradmed.

I epxect it form the BBC as I have so little respect for the individuals involved, but I really want better from the Independent and the Gaurdian and I'm not getting it. Thank Dog for the internet or I'd be sure McCain was winning.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:15:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:39:54 PM EST
Biofuels, food crops straining world water reserves: experts
Burgeoning demand for food to feed the world's swelling population, coupled with increased use of biomass as fuel is putting a serious strain on global water reserves, experts said

"If we look at how much more water we will need for food and how much more for biomass for energy going forward ... it is quite worrying," said Jan Lundqvist, who heads the scientific programme at the Stockholm International Water Institute (SIWI).

Global food needs are expected to roughly double by 2050, at the same time as climate change and dwindling oil reserves are pressuring countries to set aside ever more land for producing biomass to replace greenhouse gas-emitting fossil fuels.

These parallel global trends risk colliding with "the water-constrained biophysical reality of the planet," according to SIWI, which hosted the the World Water Week in the Swedish capital last week.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:08:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Talking Directly, and Kindly, to Believers in the Eco Life - NYTimes.com

Umbra Fisk's no-nonsense, no-embarrassment voice resonates with the left-leaning people in their 30s who were the first generation to take environmental studies for granted as a part of a college curriculum. Judging from the questions, the readers, like Umbra's creators, are forming families (or choosing not to), buying cars (or choosing not to) and having babies (or choosing not to). Her view on the old argument about cloth versus disposable diapers? A tossup, environmentally speaking.

The readers also appreciate frankness about everything from phosphates to condoms, and a knowledgeable voice on questions about atmospheric science and shower urination (is it more environmentally correct than using a toilet?) .

Here, for example, is Umbra's take on yoga mats: "They seem so soft and friendly, but they are another product for our list of Things That Contain Vinyl. Vinyl and phthalates. How I wish to never need spell phthalates again." She suggested a jute and rubber alternative.

She also assures the party set that yes, you can recycle a beer bottle with a lime in it.



Cynicism is intellectual treason.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 03:45:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Cattle shown to align north-south

Have you ever noticed that herds of grazing animals all face the same way?

Images from Google Earth have confirmed that cattle tend to align their bodies in a north-south direction.

Wild deer also display this behaviour - a phenomenon that has apparently gone unnoticed by herdsmen and hunters for thousands of years.

In the Proceedings for the National Academy of Sciences, scientists say the Earth's magnetic fields may influence the behaviour of these animals.



Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:07:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
a phenomenon that has apparently gone unnoticed by herdsmen

How many centuries of herdsmen's writings do they have to base that on?

It's actually well-known as a general tendency. But the slope plays a part too. On a steep south-facing slope, grazing animals won't position themselves with their heads downslope, because it's kind of inconvenient for browsing purposes. Er, and might end in serious accident, as in rolling arse over tit down the slope.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 10:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As does weather: they're not likely to graze into a storm, are they?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 10:06:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope. On a slope in a storm, they go downslope, whatever compass direction that may be.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 10:19:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Personally, I turn out of the storm, but I'm normally grazing on the flat.

Well, sitting on a horse who's grazing on the flat. I don't have the teeth for grass.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 06:36:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Archdruid Report
Now it so happens that some cultural narratives are myths in both senses of the word: they are crucial elements of a society's view of the world, and they also make statements about the world that can be shown to be untrue. The myth of the market falls into this interesting category. Just now, in America and some other industrial nations, it plays a central role in defining how people think about the economic dimension of their lives. At the same time, some of its core assumptions, and many of the statements about the world that derive from it, are hard to support on any basis but blind faith.

This is where the intemperate passions I mentioned earlier enter the picture, of course, because the myth of the market is not simply a cultural narrative; it's also an ideology supported by a great many people just now. There's a complicated history behind its current ideological role. The grand geopolitical struggle between the American and Russian empires that occupied most of the twentieth century, and still makes headlines today, followed the usual custom and borrowed ideological garments to provide a scrap of decency to the clash of naked ambitions.

...

A secular ideology had to be coined, and free market capitalism filled that need. It's not accidental that many of its active proponents in recent years were Marxists during their years of adolescent rebellion in the 1960s; much of what now passes for economic thought in America simply takes Marxist assumptions and stands them on their head, in the same way that Satanists borrow most of Christian theology but root for the other side.



Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:32:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
KLATSCH

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:40:10 PM EST
Margaret Thatcher Suffering From Dementia, Family Says

LONDON, Aug. 25 -- The daughter of former prime minister Margaret Thatcher said Britain's "Iron Lady" is suffering from dementia, the family's first public confirmation of what has been widely rumored in Britain for several years.

Thatcher's condition has deteriorated so much that she forgets that her husband, Denis Thatcher, died in 2003, her daughter said in a memoir that is to be published next month and was serialized over the weekend in the Mail on Sunday newspaper.

"I had to keep giving her the bad news over and over again," Carol Thatcher wrote. "Every time it finally sank in that she had lost her husband of more than 50 years, she'd look at me sadly and say 'Oh' as I struggled to compose myself. 'Were we all there?' she'd ask softly."

Thatcher said she first noticed her mother's failing memory over lunch in 2000, a decade after she left 10 Downing Street after leading Britain from 1979 to 1990.

"I almost fell off my chair," wrote Thatcher, a journalist and television personality. "Watching her struggle with her words and her memory, I couldn't believe it. She was in her 75th year but I had always thought of her as ageless, timeless and 100 per cent cast-iron damage-proof. From the fateful day of our lunch, tell-tale signs that something wasn't quite right began to emerge."



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:35:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If I'm supposed to feel sorry for this (oh, the words I could type), forget it folks.  I hold grudges, PERMANENTLY!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to paraphrase Pink floyd

"I've been mad for fucking years, absolutely years" "You know I've been mad, I've always been mad"

I do not wish to mock senitle dementia, or those who suffer from it. I'm sure it's a fear that lurks in us all, but Thatcher was callous and wicked long before she lost it.

She did a few good things that even I'd concede, but the Falklands victory caused her to lose her grip on reality and the country suffered, and still suffers, from the consequences.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:07:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm headed back to the heartland in a couple of weeks, I grew up in the same town as James Dean, and now they have kind of a big festival around him, with Hot rods and ...well, with hot rods and drinking.  I like to go back because its such a little town and all of us who grew up there come back just to see the sleepy little town rock.  Any interest here in a bunch of pictures of hot rods in the midwest?  It may be the end of an era even for the shows.

I also hope to get some sense of how the election is going in a red state.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson

by NearlyNormal on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 05:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
forgot to post this link:
http://www.jamesdean.com/community/festival/index.htm

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson
by NearlyNormal on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 05:55:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, do you live anywhere near where they have the Wizard of Oz munchkin festival?  Oh, man.  I had a college friend from Indiana who would always go to that...  I am a huge Wizard of Oz fan.

"This is nothing compared to how Putin rigged Eurovision."
by poemless on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:04:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I live in N. Cal now, but I grew up in Fairmount.  I don't know where the munchkin festival is.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson
by NearlyNormal on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 06:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pictures of hot rods and rockabilly bands are, I believe, acceptable even though this is nominally a European site. Since Europe gets all of its popular culture from the U.S., a James Dean reunion will be welcome.

<ducks>

by asdf on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 11:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, shucks, <hands in pockets, shoulders hunched, looking down at the ground>.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson
by NearlyNormal on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 04:56:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course we're interested.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:08:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Snubbed Sicilian town, Lercara Friddi, pays tribute to Frank Sinatra with a festival - Times Online

Ten years after Frank Sinatra's death the small town of Lercara Friddi, near Corleone in northwest Sicily, has created a music festival in his honour -- even though the singer refused to acknowledge that his family hailed from the area.

Throughout his life "Ol' Blue Eyes" maintained that his grandfather Francesco came from Catania. However, in Sinatra -- The Life, Anthony Summers and Robbyn Swan say this was because the singer was keen to distance himself from anything that would suggest he was close to the Mafia. Lercara Friddi was also the birthplace of Charles "Lucky" Luciano, regarded as the father of modern organised crime.

According to the biographers, local church records and the testimony of relatives prove that Francesco was born in the town in 1857. The family for a time lived in the same street as the Luciano family. Francesco emigrated to New York in 1900 and sent for his family eventually.

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:55:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the singer was keen to distance himself from anything that would suggest he was close to the Mafia

Hahahahahahahhaha ! That worked well.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:11:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlusconi uses his summer break to make Christmas CD - Europe, World - The Independent

Silvio Berlusconi has once again put his summer holiday in Sardinia to good use, slamming the door temporarily on Italy's teeming problems to collaborate on another collection of Neapolitan love songs with his favourite singer and guitarist, Mariano Apicella.

Apicella, 44, who has been the Italian Prime Minister's regular and faithful summer accompanist since the two met in 2001, said that the CD contains 14 songs, with words by Mr Berlusconi and music by himself. He hopes it will be released in time for Christmas - "but the Prime Minister has many other commitments, so that may not be possible". Its title has yet to be made public.

The CD will be their third collaboration. The first, Meglio 'na canzone (Better a song), was released in 2003, during Mr Berlusconi's second term as premier. A second disc, L'ultimo amore (The last love), was released in 2006.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:06:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can the McCain ABBA remix be far behind?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:28:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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