European Tribune

Embryonic Police State : Installment 1

by THE Twank
Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 07:10:38 AM EST

This series was inspired by Keith Olbermann's use of the term Embryonic Police State in relation to current legislation considered by the US government.  Definitions will be presented; questions will be posed.    


The term police state is a term for a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population, potentially by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional republic. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.  The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement.
embryonic:  rudimentary; undeveloped.  
There is such an extensive history, collection of current events, and speculation over the future human social structure relevant to the Embryonic Police State that this will be a weekly series. Psychology, economics, politics, religion, literature, social engineering at the molecular level  ... this topic has it all.  

Is a national police state, or a world police state necessarily an undesirable condition of human society?  What if it contains the solutions to all of the significant problems facing humanity and the planet?  Did single cell organisms give up their autonomy to become multicellular "police states"; consider the human immune system and how your body deals with immigrants (bacteria) or freedom fighters (cancer cells).  Is a universal police state the next logical, inevitable step in human evolution?

Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password

Display:

   Monster by Steppenwolf

Once the religious, the hunted and weary
Chasing the promise of freedom and hope

Came to this country to build a new vision
Far from the reaches of kingdom and pope
Like good Christians, some would burn the witches
Later some got slaves to gather riches

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

And once the ties with the crown had been broken
Westward in saddle and wagon it went
And 'til the railroad linked ocean to ocean
Many the lives which had come to an end
While we bullied, stole and bought our a homeland
We began the slaughter of the red man

But still from near and far to seek America
They came by thousands to court the wild
And she just patiently smiled and bore a child
To be their spirit and guiding light

The blue and grey they stomped it
They kicked it just like a dog
And when the war over
They stuffed it just like a hog

And though the past has it's share of injustice
Kind was the spirit in many a way
But it's protectors and friends have been sleeping
Now it's a monster and will not obey

(Suicide)
The spirit was freedom and justice
And it's keepers seem generous and kind
It's leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
'Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
And now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'

Our cities have turned into jungles
And corruption is stranglin' the land
The police force is watching the people
And the people just can't understand
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
'Cause there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watching

(America)
America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 07:16:15 AM EST
Good idea, THE Twank! I am looking forward to reading the first diary on this subject. I really would like to have more information on how elements of a police state are progressively implemented in the US...

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char
by Melanchthon on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 07:25:04 AM EST
Message received.

One of my goals with a weekly installment is to be able to look back at these diaries when Installment 55 comes along.  Have things gotten better or worse in the previous year?  Am I still allowed to blog and will I be doing it from a cage in GitMo?  People tend to have very short memories.  I want this series to provide a trail of crumbs to the Police State.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 07:53:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At the "re-create 68" anti-war demonstration in Denver yesterday there were about 1000 protestors, 1000 policemen, and 1000 photographers. Perhaps this ratio reflects something fundamental about the development of a police state...

Incidently, this very poor turnout for a highly publicized demonstration at a very visible venue pretty much proves to me that the "movement" in the 1960s and early 1970s in the U.S. was primarily driven by fear of the draft. As long as it's someone else doing the fighting and dying, most people seem happy to support war--even to the point of economic disaster...  :-(

by asdf on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 09:36:32 AM EST
"... in Denver yesterday there were about 1000 protestors, 1000 policemen, and 1000 photographers."

Were you there or is this through someone else's eyes?

"... the "movement" in the 1960s and early 1970s in the U.S. was primarily driven by fear of the draft."

ABSOLUTELY!! Guilty as charged.  I busted my ass to become the valedictorian of my high school class of 350+ and I pull a high 60's out of 365 in the draft (summer of '71) and WHAT?  I'm going to go to Viet Nam to get my ass shot off?  So that the likes of LBJ can war profiteer?  My parents don't give a rat's ass if I go to college or go to Viet Nam. (A real pair ... don't get me started.)  Sorry if I looked after No. 1 back then but NOBODY ELSE WAS!

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 12:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Were you there or is this through someone else's eyes?"

I went up to Denver to see what was going on. Compared to the demonstrations in Boulder in the 1960s & 1970s, it was quite tame.

Everybody's first reaction to "recreate 68" is "Why would you want to romanticize the sixties?" but I think the idea is to recreate the activism, not necessarily all the bad things.

http://recreate68.com/?page_id=39

by asdf on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 11:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you hang around the convention, FEEL FREE TO POST ANY ACCURATE INFO, IN ANY FORM, WHICH YOU FEEL IS RELEVANT TO THIS DIARY.

I just heard on Democracy Now (Amy Goodman) that there are a lot of cops WITHOUT IDENTIFICATION at the site of the demonstrators.  Anything new?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:04:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The baby boomers were a huge chunk of the population back then, too. A lot of kids around increases the odds for political unrest and social change.

In terms of police response to protests it was the WTO riots in Seattle in 1999 that "changed everything," not 9-11.

I was born in 1977, so I can only read about the 60's - and from those readings it's clear that the police back then were far worse then than they are today. The difference today is that the technology needed (automated surveillance) to run a police state is available at a cost that doesn't require increasing law enforcement budgets much at all.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:17:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
at a cost that doesn't require increasing law enforcement budgets much at all.

To which I should have added that this decreases institutional resistance toward moving in that direction.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:19:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think so. While the data is certainly being gathered, processing it into a useful format for a police state takes way more people than are currently employed in the secret police of most Western(TM) countries.

I think that the real risk is that the data is sold to (or stolen by) people in the private sector who do have the budgets to use it, and who have axes to grind with specific people (think genuinely leftist politicians, anti-"globalisation" activists and trade union linchpins).

And with some transnational corporations having PR and lobbying budgets that come close to rivalling the tax income of a moderately sized African republic, such players certainly exist.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:02:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You obviously aren't dosing yourself enough with the Bruckheimer realities. Having access to the database is all that is needed. Bad guys can't ever beat the technology. Each camera, each database, is a laser-driven smartbomb in the service of civilization.

When good guys use the technology for their own purposes, though illegal, the angst they go through is so palpable that they are forgiven.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, given the performance so far of "laser-driven smartbombs" you may colour me pessimistic :-P Some of the cruise missiles in the latest Iraq war didn't even hit the right country...

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 03:46:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And so it is with the Bruckheimer fantasies. Rah rah US exceptionalism all the way. But accurate?

Yeah, as accurate as a missile defense system.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:29:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The police in the 60s had not yet learned about the perils of portable cameras and microphones.  When LAPD rioted and beat up Beverly Hills, Brentwood, Pacific Palisades, and other west side liberal moms and dads with children in tow or in strollers in the Century City police riot, it showed exactly how repressive the established order would be.  They saw themselves as using their exemplary violence to protect LBJ.  Can't have moms with babies in strollers chanting "Hey,hey, LBJ!  How many kids did you kill today?!"

They have learned more effective tactics.  Create a "protest zone" where no one will see or hear protesters and dispose of those who violate parade or protest permits with a minimum of violence.  It is far more insidious than a charge with tear gas, horses and policemen in gas masks with shields and clubs.  But occasionally their true nature bursts forth, as with the McArthur Park police riot last year against immigration activists.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 10:31:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why would they want to recreate '68?  I really don't understand this need to romanticize the '60s.  Yes, some very good things happened.  The Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, the Great Society, etc.  But a lot of really awful things began in the '60s.

Modern America has its roots in the '60s, especially the latter part of the decade when the conservative backlash against the New Deal coalition took hold.  The result in 2008 ain't pretty.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 04:55:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I really don't understand this need to romanticize the '60s.

I think its the first time in the media TV age where major pressure from populace to government resulted in a change of direction for the government.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 07:20:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BillMon made the point that the R establishment is completely stuck in the 60s. It's not that they want to recreate the 60s, more that the right was so traumatised by the hippies, by the military disaster in Vietnam, by the Nixon debacle, that their heads exploded and time stopped for them.

Hence the McCain 'you know I was a POW' line. It's not that nothing has happened since then - but nothing as important has happened since then.

So the right is trying to fight that war - with the DFHs, with the gooks, with crazy bra burning women who don't know their place, with uppity negro types, with the Russians, and with effete intellectual liberals - over and over again.

It's not just Thatcher who has senile dementia. In the US, everyone over forty in the establishment on the right is permanently lost in a war which destroyed their illusions of invulnerability and dominion, and which has never ended for them.

An assassination or a riot would fit the narrative. If that doesn't happen, they're going to have serious difficulties coping with reality.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:32:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They were not so lost as that.  They invented the "culture war" and rode it to victory in 1980.  Those too young to remember have no sense of the hope that drove so many on the left in the 60s.  Hope largely dashed.  If we turn away from that failure and want to just forget about it we will fail again but in a new way.

The Republicans have learned well the benefits of making the whole process repugnant.  Those who support them have the discipline and/or can be motivated by symbolic manipulation to come out and vote no matter how much shit the spew over the entire scene.  If some among us allow that to disgust them and they turn away, we will loose again.  It is classic blame the victim.  Don't get disgusted, get angry.  Else the police state draws nearer.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 11:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have just a couple of comments.  

(1) I look forward to this series believing it is important to expose real problems before they occur, and there are definitely issues regarding policing in the US and other countries.  I realize that the US system is likely to be the focus of this diary, for various valid reasons, but one should remember that we are all in the same boat, so to speak, because the need to maintain public security is not restricted to any one country.    

(2) Most people on this blog, excepting those from Eastern Europe, have a limited ideas about what living in a police state is really like. Even fewer have a good concept of what it's like to live in a state with a dysfunctional public security system where criminals hold sway over the day to day lives of citizens. This situation, like that in a  police state, goes far beyond simple corruption, political manipulation and abridgment of some basic civil liberties.

(3) There are strong similarities between a police state and a state where criminal enterprise exercises  essential control over the government.  Thus, there is a delicate balance that must be maintained by governments to ensure effective policing that respects the rights of citizens while suppressing those whose actions and activities show no respect for properly enacted law or the rights, privileges, and responsibilities of citizenship.  

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:10:30 PM EST
P.S.  Wikipedia also states:

As previously discussed, it is not possible to objectively determine whether a nation has become or is becoming a police state. As a consequence, to draw up an exhaustive list of police states would be inherently flawed. However, there are a few highly debated examples which serve to illustrate partial characteristics of a police state's structure.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh Gringo, thank you, thank you.

"I realize that the US system is likely to be the focus of this diary, for various valid reasons, but one should remember that we are all in the same boat, ..."

When I was composing this first Installment I was contemplating telling folks that I was a die-hard Californian and my info selection might reflect this. THEREFORE, if anyone wants to contribute to this series because they have valuable info concerning their geographic area, feel free!  So where are you living, in general?

Your points 2 and 3 ... FANTASTIC!  Tell me more!

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 02:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, there is the UK with the highest number of CCTV cameras per capita, and then there's Germany's Stasi 2.0.



A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:03:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's amusing how useless those CCTV cameras are. I suspect if someone asked for a list of convictions from CCTV evidence it wouldn't be very long.

But the wrrrr on trrrrr has given the police an excuse to behave badly. Photographers are having a hard time everywhere because ignorant security goons - official police and semi-official rentacops - are using the wrrrr as an excuse to throw their weight around.

One of the definitions of a police state is that the police can act outside the (nominal) law without oversight or accountability.

Police states are inherently anti-legal - instead of impartial justice, there's only the whim of individuals in uniforms.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:19:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
at a previous employers, having had someone walk off with a 42" plasma screen, (while a member of Senior Management held the door open for them unsuspectingly according to one version of the story) we ended up installing  a number of CCTV cameras. A few days later we had to use them and when the police turned up to look at the evidence, the pictures we thought were somewhat dubious, the police described as far better than anything they had, to the extent of calling in senior officers to see how good the picture quality was on our cameras.

on top of this we discovered that the cameras are never pointing in the right direction when you want them to be, and you need far more cameras to effectively cover an area than you would have thought.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:35:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reminds me of how back in 1990 the first thing I got done as the International Petroleum Exchange's new "policeman" (aka Compliance Director) was to install four video cameras covering each trading pit plus mikes etc.

This was achieved over the traders' dead body of course, but as I had been drafted in to clean the place up, and made an issue of it, I got my way.

Within a week they wouldn't have been without the cameras....best thing since sliced bread.

Why? Because immediately gave them a way of sorting out trading disputes simply by viewing the video record. The outcome was that >99% of the use of the video recordings wasn't Big Brother, it was them sorting out exactly who they had traded with.

Gradually it sank in that a fair market is actually good for business generally, although bad for a few of the scallywags.

Interesting that even to this day, 18 years on, NYMEX, who still cling to their trading floor (IPE's is long gone) still will not allow cameras on the trading floor.  

NYMEX always was run by "local" (self employed individual) traders for local traders: customer orders have always been routinely pillaged.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That article makes sousveillance sound like a civic duty.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 07:14:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I did some looking and found nothing.  What does wrrrr and trrrr stand for?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 03:52:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
War and Terror, presumably.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am currently living in Mexico and also had experience in Colombia during the heyday of the Cali/Medellin drug cartels and most recently during the kidnapping spree, spawned by the lack of effective law enforcement and the need by the FARC to finance its "revolutionary movement." I was involved in a program to assist the Colombian Government "combat" kidnapping whether carried out by petty criminals, the FARC or the Right Wing Militias.

Most people do not understand how violent and dangerous Mexico has become or they would not be rushing here for a vacation. What Colombia was, Mexico has exceeded owing to the same Mexicanized drug trade and ineffectual law enforcement. As in Colombia, organized crime threatens to overwhelm the Government's efforts to suppress both the drug trade and associated criminality (murder, extortion, and kidnapping).  However, unlike Colombia, Mexico is a huge country with over a hundred million inhabitants, and it shares a lengthy border the US.  I have planned for some time to write a diary about the current situation in Mexico, but the daily mayhem is just overwhelming. Perhaps I will succeed soon.

If baited just a little bit I am usually happy to argue for the police/law enforcement/intelligence side in diaries such as this (if for no other reason than to generate debate - I dislike one-sided discussions). Although I understand the dangers of excessive policing and the importance of government by and for the people, my experience and view of reality is a little different than those who have never been involved in "policing."

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears

by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"I have planned for some time to write a diary about the current situation in Mexico, but the daily mayhem is just overwhelming."

Feel free to drop a load or two at these installments in the following weeks.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 03:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most people on this blog, excepting those from Eastern Europe, have a limited ideas about what living in a police state is really like.

I lived through the warmer Soviet period until the gentle age of 18, but did not have much chance to suffer from it. Generally, people did not look stressed of limitations - most noticeably, they were looking for commerce or speculation opportunities (free business was perhaps indeed more a luxury of party insiders or criminals). Soon they got their wish - and the capitalist "rate race" offers quite some anxiety and stress, apparently. As for the police (or "milicia" in Soviet times), its function in the Soviet times was indeed more diverse, but frequently more useful as well. (Say, it could deal with alcoholic types more creatively, or do more in domestic violence. On the other hand, general social appearances admittedly improved.) Do corruption and criminality got better? Yes, if you don't care about fine similarities between certain power microeconomics and organized crime, or between some status privileges and indecent lobbying. It is probably a good sign that police job looks more dull (and jokes about them are not advancing).

Perhaps I do not really know what a police state is either. Yet I may wonder, did good Germans feel limited much by the Nazi-time police in their impressive uniforms?

Iraq may provide a special example of living in a police state and after it.

by das monde on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 10:24:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yet I may wonder, did good Germans feel limited much by the Nazi-time police in their impressive uniforms?

I am left with the memory from Albert Speer's Inside the Third Reich that there was a concerted effort to keep the middle class shielded from the goings on well into the war. Thus, the importance of analyzing the propaganda and the careful debunking of seemingly anecdotal evidence. "Oh, it was just one shoe-bomber who was held for years without evidence or trial"...or shoe-bomb, or whatever else it appears.

Thus it is of critical interest that such a propagandist as Bruckheimer can be so influential in the nickel cigar category.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:48:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The rise of Hitler becomes a lot less mysterious when you think how much support he got from (let's call that) financial, industrial and political elites. For example, he was imprisoned for an attempt to overthrow Bavarian government just for 8 months, while any other kind of activist (especially Marxist) could had gotten death sentence. I wonder how much his "national socialism" was a convenient kind of "socialism" to various aristocrats scared of a Russian style revolution. Was financial support to his party groundbreakingly unmatched for that time? How much did the media favor or challenge him? What kind of political opposition did he face? Eventually, enthusiasm of industrial/financial elites towards Hitler was obvious, beyond Atlantic as well. How far would had Hitler gone without that much rich interest? I didn't see much reading of how decisive was this kind of support from wealth elites, but I guess they should be assigned no less responsibility than "little Eichmanns". Masses just follow what the elites approve, after all.
by das monde on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 04:42:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Coca-Cola Company Under the Nazis
What saved the Coca-Cola GmbH from being crushed by Germany's fascist rulers was that its corporate structure and advertising philosophy came naturally close to the Nazis' totalitarian ideas of a brave new world. The case of Coca-Cola thus goes beyond mere collaboration: before Hitler decreed the Principle of Leadership (Fuehreprinzip) in industry, which replaced collective bargaining by handing dictatorial powers to company directors, the Coca-Cola GmbH was already dominated by its own authoritarian leader. Company and government interests subsequently overlapped: the Nazis regarded mass-production and mass-consumption as crucial building blocks of their new society. Coca-Cola's modern means of producing a uniform product could have only impressed them. Similar things can be said about Coke's advertising strategy, which again reflected values central to the National-Socialist society. Through the same modern channels that the Nazis used for propaganda; namely film, radio, mass- publications, and sports events, Coca-Cola appealed, among others, to workers, soldiers, and automobilists, target groups that are significant insofar as they epitomized the Nazis' idea of modernity.


Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:00:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Coca-Cola Company Under the Nazis
Unfortunately, this in itself seems neither surprising nor exciting. Cooperation if not outright collaboration with the Nazis was the rule for many transnational corporations with a stake in Germany and has been the subject of extensive research. Next to Standard Oil and I.G. Farben, for instance, Coke's story of peddling soda to opposing trenches appears tame. The immorality of bottling Coca-Cola for the Nazis stands in no relation to STP's selling of aviation fuel to the German war machine, nor can it overshadow the oil- producer's cozy wartime relationship with Germany's chemical giant I.G. Farben. Simply put, Coca-Cola's infamous deeds were not the Second World War's only ones, nor were they particularly sinister. After all, Coke cannot be used to fly airplanes or make bombs.


Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:09:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A story I heard - dunno whether it's true, but it's a good story - is that Fanta was invented because somebody in the US State Department leaned on CocaCola to make them stop selling cola to the Germans after the war started, so they had to come up with something else to sell there.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
theres a variety of variants on that story, but they all basically come down to the lack of access to the secret formulatm due to wartime blockades

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:40:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Coca-Cola has become as American as baseball and apple pie. True, Coca-Cola originated in America and stands as a leading American business, but how did it become associated with the "American way?" From the very beginning Coca-Cola advertisements consisted of slice-of-life images showing Americans enjoying a refreshing "pause." They created an ideal America that Americans could visualize. Only after America's entry into World War II did Coca-Cola begin to align itself with patriotic themes. The advertisements created before and during World War II, as well as the activity of the company during the war solidified Coca-Cola in the minds of Americans as an icon of American values and ideals.

Almost an irony.

by das monde on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:58:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is very hard to find their German advertising from the same period, but there are remaining copies of similar pictures from Hitler youth magazines. German soldiers having similar refreshing pauses.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 07:04:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I googled up this "COCA COLA'S NAZI ADVERTS - ART EXHIBITION", but just a few links there work. All new I can follow from there is a foundry mirror and links to Columbia and India matters. Some censors must be as good as Chinese.
by das monde on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 07:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
some uk tv about this  



Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:31:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I stumbled upon that film in full. United Fruits with a more human face?

And this will make my booty for today:

by das monde on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:51:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When he was doing his one man show about it, before the TV program was made, I saw him perform it in Edinburgh.

always entertaining, although his confrontational style has probably rather woried TV executives since 9/11

One of his better stunts was to set up a fake marketing company which took up a stall at a large arms fair, arranging to teach generals and other senior politicians how to deal with the press when they come sniffing around human rights abuses. So said generals hapily sat  in front of the TV cameras, and then were asked what activities they would particularly like help in dealing with the press with? As far as I remember a couple of Indonesian generals came forward and asked about how to deal with the massacre of civilians.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:01:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
God, where am I going to find the time to read all of the background material?  What is this monster I'm creating?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 04:14:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
das monde:
Eventually, enthusiasm of industrial/financial elites towards Hitler was obvious, beyond Atlantic as well. How far would had Hitler gone without that much rich interest?

Exactly nowhere. Hitler would have remained a sociopathic nobody, and Weimar would have stuttered along for at least another decade or three. There would probably have been a confrontation between Stalin and the rest of Europe eventually, but it's hard to guess how that would have played out.

The elites love their pet monsters. Collecting them is very much their favourite hobby - not just in Germany and the US, but around the world.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 06:23:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hitler would have remained a sociopathic nobody, and Weimar would have stuttered along for at least another decade or three.

Or maybe not, apparently some in the Weimar political class was busy plotting the demise of the Republic without the need for wealthy industrialist backers.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 07:19:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To be fair, that was partly as a reaction to Nazi excess. It's not clear what would have happened if there hadn't been extremist pressure from both Nazis and Communists, and their respective sponsors.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm going to regret this; what does, "The elites love their pet monsters. Collecting them is very much their favourite hobby - not just in Germany and the US, but around the world." mean?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 04:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Presumably a reference to the fact that behind quite a lot of dirty, murderous thugs stand proper, clean-shaven businessmen who don't mind paying money to the thugs as long as they are effective, but really don't want to hear too many of the details because that might bust their deniability.

That's a pattern that's held true from Blackbeard to Bush, and it doesn't look like it's gonna go away.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 05:49:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twank, ever see the episodes of the Sopranos where Tony's crew is retained on behalf of a local rebbi.  Seems as though the rebbi's "goon squad," which he used to keep the husbands from beating the shit out of the wives, had run afoul of the law, so he needed help.  Fascinating and hilarious.  Politicians often did the same.  

In fact, that is the underlying premise of Iran-Contra.  Ollie North saw that he could get guns for the Contras by facilitating the sale of missiles from Iran using the proceeds to purchase arms for the Contras.  Regular pay for the contras was covered by taking large kickbacks from drug dealers for protection and using that money to pay Contras.  Ollie, the Contras, the drug dealers and the arms merchants were all among the useful monsters.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 12:33:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Never saw one episode of the Supranos; after the X-Files and MST3K died I lost interest in TV. But I love that combination: "Ollie, the Contras, the drug dealers and the arms merchants ..."

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 04:29:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I watched the first season of the Sopranos on DVD and, due to my experiences in Hollywood and in business in general, found it to be fascinating as well as entertaining.  Deadwood is another similar HBO product that is very illustrative of how things have worked in the good ole USA---society and history illuminated by art.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 11:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Another good example perhaps is that of the Tammany Hall political apparatus and Boss Tweed in New York City during the mid-1800s. One recalls the semi-fictional movie "Gangs of New York."

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 03:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"... there was a concerted effort to keep the middle class shielded from the goings on well into the war."

Let's count them up:

  1. No US military draft.

  2. No MSM for the dead coming home.

  3. "Just go out and shop" sloganeering.

Anybody else want to add to the list?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 04:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What about "war cost not included in budget"?
by asdf on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 10:31:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your experience is one I have heard over and over again in countries many would classify as totalirtarian if not out and out "Police States."  A comment I recall hearing several times is "it's not so bad here as long as you don't get involved in politics." Even petty, non-violent "victimless", crime was usually OK - the police could be paid to overlook certain offenses.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gringo
There are strong similarities between a police state and a state where criminal enterprise exercises  essential control over the government.

Any country that allows control of the political process to be dominated by wealth is at risk of becoming a police state.  In 19th Century USA wealthy businessmen routinely brought state police and militias to bear in behalf of their own interests.  That continued up into the 1930s.

Control over the political process by business interests was sufficient to prevent much of their activities from explicitly being made criminal and from those aspects that were criminal from being prosecuted.  Intimidation, co-option or outright purchase of the press facilitated their operations.

Al Capone's control of Cicero, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago, and his influence on Chicago politics were only different in degree from the power exercised in company towns by mining companies.  This makes a mockery of our rhetoric about "freedom" and "individual liberties."  Attitudes and practices surrounding slavery made directly addressing this problem impossible at the time the US Constitution was written.

The biggest challenge is that a very significant majority of the population have an unconscious or preconscious orientation that favors authoritarian forms of government, even though those forms work against their own interests.  Representative government has survived in the US more as a result of the divided government our founders bequeathed us and the civic conscience of previous leaders than due to the vigilance of the voters.  The division of the government has been systematically eroded over much of the 20th century and recent experience has shown us that we cannot rely on political forbearance to protect what we were given.  It is up to us.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 11:59:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Poland probes 'secret CIA jail'

Prosecutors in Poland are investigating allegations that the American CIA interrogated terrorist suspects at a secret jail on Polish soil.

The investigation began three weeks ago, one prosecutor told Polish media.

A report released in June 2007 by the Council of Europe said the CIA ran secret jails in Poland and Romania in 2003-2005, to hold al-Qaeda suspects.



Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 03:41:52 PM EST
Look here.

Glenn Greenwald, Aug 25, 2008, in Salon.

Not the first such incident.

Certainly won't be the last.

On second thought, maybe we've reached the foetal stage.

by scoff on Mon Aug 25th, 2008 at 07:49:35 PM EST
Democracy Now! | AT&T Throws Party to Support Dems Who Voted to Grant Telecoms Immunity for Illegal Domestic Wiretapping

GLENN GREENWALD: Absolutely. I mean, I found the symbolism of the event very revealing. First of all, as you say, there was a very intended-to-be-intimidating wall of private security surrounding the event, and they were actually infinitely more aggressive and angrier than the Denver police were. And in fact, I was there with Jane Hamsher, the blogger from FireDogLake, who at one point was trying to speak with one of the individuals entering the party, and she was physically pushed by one of the private security members, notwithstanding the fact that the Denver police had been there the entire time, navigating and negotiating where it was that we could stand.

The other aspect of it was, was that what the police had been clearly trained to do is create this façade of being accommodating and cooperative and pleasant, but what it really does is it masks the fact that their strategy is to ensure that any sort of dissident voices, or people off script, are relegated to places where they can't really be heard.

AMY GOODMAN: It's very hard to figure out in these situations. You know, you have a sidewalk, which is owned by the private venue, and where the public can use the public sidewalk, they're showing you the cracks, the crevices in the sidewalk, and they're saying that's theirs, this is yours.

GLENN GREENWALD: Right, well, I mean, I found that very odd, too. At first, we were told that we could stand in a certain place that was on one side of one of the cracks that appeared in the sidewalk, and I was kind of amazed that the Denver police knew with such precision, based on the cracks in the sidewalk, where private and public property were demarcated. But when it turned out that where we were told to stand originally still enabled us to accost the people who were exiting the cars and try to interview them, suddenly the cracks in the sidewalk shifted to a place further away, and then suddenly that became the public-private line, and then we were told to stand there.



Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:36:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The most disturbing thing about this press coverage item is that it's business as usual between lobbyists, corporations and our elected officials. The cracks in the sidewalk issue doesn't alarm me nearly as much.  Just because a place is public property doesn't automatically mean anyone can stand there any time they want.  I got a ticket a few weeks ago for parking too long (about two minutes) at a public airport drop off point (I just needed to carry my toddler grandson across a busy street before I left).

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wish I could get invited to one of these parties.  I bet they've got real classy hookers.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 04:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
[ET Moderation Technology™]

Added emphasis, blockquoted direct quotes, fixed lazy linking.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 04:55:47 AM EST
Please explain this one.  I'm new at the diary biz.

The response I'm getting for this piece is remarkable.  Looks like I'll have to budget a few more hours for this project than I had originally planned.

Ah well.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:49:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
he's tidied your links up, put your quotes into text boxes and put the emphasised bits into bold text,

if you dont know how to, its in the new user guide. if you're still having problems and want to do it, contact me at my email address and i'll talk you through it.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 08:54:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks ceebs.

What's that old saying?  "Be careful what you wish for."

I initially wondered if anyone was going to pay attention to this type of diary series.  

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:08:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome to the more paranoid wing of ET ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting.  If this keeps up over the next 15 - 20 weeks, ...

Ideas are beginning to crank in my noggin as I listen to hour 2 of today's special edition of Democracy Now.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 09:14:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Start with this short essay:
Fascist America, in 10 easy steps

Then read the expanded version in her recent book:
"The End of America: A Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot"

The essay is basically an outline of her book. I think you will find that the rise of the police state is well understood by those who follow this sort of thing. Unfortunately the awareness of the dangers are not as common in the general public.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 01:18:35 PM EST
Have bookmarked the Fascist America outline and will use its contents liberally in future installments of this series.

Thank You!

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 05:12:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The will to progressively implement a police state is, alas, not limited to US and UK. No later than last month, the French government passed a decree implementing a database whch could cover easily one out of five French citizens. There is a petition against it going on and I urge all the French citizens or residents to sign it.

Here is the text, with a quick and dirty translation (feel free to improve it):

Pour obtenir l'abandon du fichier EDVIGE For the abandonment of the EDVIGE database
Sans débat public préalable, le gouvernement, par un décret publié au Journal officiel du 1er juillet 2008, a considérablement accru les capacités de fichage de nos concitoyens. Ce fichage sera assuré, à l'avenir, par la Direction centrale de la sécurité publique (fusion des Renseignements Généraux et de la DST).Without any prior public debate, the Government, by a decree published in Official Gazette on 1 July 2008, has considerably increased the capacity for putting on file our citizens. This filing will be done in the future by the Central Directorate for Public Security (merger of the Renseignements Généraux and the DST).
A cette fin, un nouveau fichier policier sera mis en place sous le nom d'EDVIGE (Exploitation documentaire et valorisation de l'information générale). Il recensera, de manière systématique et généralisée, toute personne « ayant sollicité, exercé ou exerçant un mandat politique, syndical ou économique ou qui joue un rôle institutionnel, économique, social ou religieux significatif ». Sans exception, toutes les personnes engagées dans la vie de la cité sont donc visées.To this end, a new police database will be established under the name EDVIGE (Documentary exploitation and valorization of general information). It will identify, systematically and generally, any person "who candidated for, exercised or currently exercising a political mandate, trade union or economic or who plays an institutional, economic, social or religious role of some significance" . Without exception, all those involved in the life of the society are hence covered.
En outre, ce fichage vise à permettre la collecte de renseignements identitaires sur les « suspects » (personne mais également groupe) simplement considérés, par la police, comme susceptibles, à l'avenir et de manière totalement hypothétique, de porter atteinte à « l'ordre public ».In addition, the database is designed to allow the gathering of identity information on "suspects" (individuals as well as groups) simply regarded by police as likely to infringe "public order" , in the future and totally hypothetically.
Il permettra de compiler toutes les notes de renseignements telles que : état civil, photographie mais aussi fréquentations, comportement, déplacements, appartenance ethnique, vie sexuelle, opinions politiques, philosophiques, religieuses, appartenances syndicales et associatives ...It will allow to compile all information such as: marital status, photography, but also hangs out, behaviour, travels, ethnicity, sex life, political views, philosophical, religious, trade union and association membership
La police sera autorisée à consulter ce fichier en cas d'enquêtes administratives pour l'accès à certains emplois.The police will be authorized to use this database in case of administrative investigations for access to certain jobs.
Les mineurs ne seront pas épargnés puisque fait sans précédent dans notre République et particulièrement choquant, leur fichage sera autorisé dès l'âge de 13 ans et cela sans qu'aucune infraction n'ait été commise et sur la seule base de leur dangerosité présumée.Minors will not be spared as, an unprecedented and particularly shocking case in our Republic, their registration will be allowed from the age of 13 years, even when no offence has been committed and solely on the basis of their alleged danger.
Cette initiative gouvernementale, porteuse à l'évidence de nombreuses dérives, s'inscrit résolument dans le cadre de la mise en place d'une politique sécuritaire ouvertement revendiquée.This government initiative, which evidently carries the possibility of many abuses, is firmly in the context of setting up a hard security policy openly claimed.
Le gouvernement est passé outre aux réserves émises par la Commission nationale Informatique et Libertés concernant ce fichier qui, dès sa parution, a suscité les plus vives disapprobations de multiples organisations associatives, syndicales et politiques.The government has ignored the reservations expressed by the National Commission on Information Technology and Freedoms regarding this database which, upon its release, has generated the strongest disapprobations from many, trade unions, political and civil society organisations.
C'est pourquoi les organisations et les personnes signataires de cet appel : That is why the organizations and individuals signatories of this appeal:
 exigent le retrait du décret autorisant la mise en place du fichier EDVIGE qui institue un niveau de surveillance des citoyens totalement disproportionné et incompatible avec une conception digne de ce nom de l'état de droit, - require the withdrawal of the decree authorizing the establishment of the EDVIGE database which establishes a level of surveillance of citizens totally disproportionate and incompatible with a vision of society worthy of the name of the rule of law,
 sollicitent le soutien et la signature de tous nos concitoyens et de toutes les organisations attachées aux libertés publiques, au respect de la vie privée et des droits de l'enfant, - seek the support and signing of all our citizens and all organizations committed to civil liberties, privacy and rights of the child,
 s'engagent à se constituer, dès le mois de septembre 2008, sous forme de Collectif afin de prendre toute initiative utile visant à obtenir des pouvoirs publics qu'ils renoncent à la mise en place du fichier EDVIGE. - undertake to establish, as early as September 2008, in the form of Collective to take any initiative aimed at obtaining government to renounce the establishment of the EDVIGE database.

Please, spread the word as much as possible. You can sign the petition here:

Pour obtenir l'abandon du fichier EDVIGE


"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Tue Aug 26th, 2008 at 02:34:59 PM EST
A database that only covers one out of five.  Probably every US citizen is included in at least five databases of which they know nothing and these data bases at least could be linked.  Incompetence in our best protection.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 12:17:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I would respond to that, but don't want to be put into a database.

They throw the innocuous celebrity database in at the top, but it is the rable rouser section that is what the 'they' wanted.

Always nice to have round numbers, isn't it. 20%. Well, I won't be in the 20%, so it must be OK.

Nice that the population of prisoners in the US just hit a nice round 1%.
1 in 100 U.S. Adults Behind Bars, New Study Says

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 06:22:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Display:
Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]