European Tribune

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 2. September

by Fran
Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 02:55:23 PM EST

On this date in history:

1854 - Hans Jæger, a Norwegian writer, philosopher and anarchist political activist who was part of the Oslo (then Kristiania) based bohemian group Kristianiabohêmen, was born. (d. 1910)

More here and here


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EUROPE
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 02:56:10 PM EST
This WEEK in the European Union - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER / AGENDA (1 - 8 August) - Next week will see the first European Parliament plenary session after the summer break, but the main event will be an extraordinary EU leaders' meeting to discuss the situation in Georgia.

The emergency summit, called by France - currently chairing the six-month rotating EU presidency, take place on Monday (1 September) in Brussels and will aim to reassess the bloc's relation with Russia, after Moscow's attack on Georgia earlier this month and its decision to recognise the independence of Georgia's two breakaway provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

EU leaders will meet on Monday to reassess the bloc's relations with Russia following the crisis in Georgia.

French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner said that sanctions would be among the measures considered by the bloc's leaders - but his statement was met with mockery by Moscow and later rejected by another French diplomat who noted: "the time for sanctions has not yet come."

Additionally, EU diplomats indicated this week that despite the increasing tension, only a small number of countries are currently pushing for a tough line against again Russia, while most EU states are reluctant to take punitive measures and sanctions are unlikely to go beyond a possible postponement of negotiations on a new EU-Russia treaty.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 02:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU to Remain Vigilant on Russian Relations | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 01.09.2008
At an emergency summit, the EU condemned Russia's recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and urged other countries not to do the same. In a draft declaration the bloc vowed to remain vigilant in its ties with Russia.

EU leaders gathering for an emergency summit in Brussels on Monday vowed to be "vigilant" in their ties with Russia. The European Union could take decisions "concerning the future" of relations, according to a draft declaration being discussed by EU leaders.

"We expect Russia to act responsibly, in line with all its commitments. The Union will remain vigilant," the statement said.

The bloc will "examine carefully and deeply the situation and the different dimensions of EU-Russia relations," the statement said, noting that the results of this examination could become apparent by an EU-Russia summit in November.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 02:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
RIA Novosti - World - Italy's Berlusconi urges against new standoff with Russia

ROME, September 1 (RIA Novosti) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said on Monday he was taking steps to prevent a new standoff between the West and Russia over the recent conflict in Georgia.

Speaking on Canale 5 ahead of an EU summit to be held later on Monday, which will focus on the Georgia crisis and relations with Russia, Berlusconi said: "It is absolutely essential to prevent a situation where the current crisis in the Caucasus is used as a fuse to ignite a new Cold War."

Some members of the 27-nation bloc, including Britain and Poland, have called for sanctions against Russia and for the postponement of talks on a comprehensive cooperation pact with Moscow, over its military operation in Georgia, which followed Tbilisi's August 8 attack on breakaway South Ossetia.

The Italian premier, the Kremlin's strongest ally in the EU, said he had spoken to the Russian, U.S. and some European leaders on the telephone in the last few days, and found that not all of his colleagues realized how dangerous a new confrontation between the West and Russia could be.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:03:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a bizarro world: the EU's nastiest assholes (Klaus, B) plead fr sanity in EU-Russia relations. (Then again, both of them are less than honest in their motives.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:04:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Russia calls for arms embargo on Georgia - EUobserver

Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov has called for an international arms embargo to be placed on Georgia.

"It would be right to impose an embargo on weapons to this regime, until different authorities turn Georgia a normal state," Mr Lavrov said on Monday (1 September) in a speech to foreign policy students in Russia.

Russia wants an arms embargo imposed on Georgia

He also warned the European Union and the United States against backing Georgian leader Mikheil Sakaashvili.

"If instead of choosing their national interests and the interests of the Georgian people, the United States and its allies choose the Saakashvili regime, this will be a mistake of truly historic proportions," he said, according to a report from the Associated Press.

Additionally, Moscow has also accused the US of supplying Georgia with weapons hidden aboard ships delivering humanitarian aid to the embattled Caucasian republic.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Legal consequences for Russia, but Georgian attack also a 'mistake,' say Polish, US officials - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER/BRUSSELS - Russia breached the international law when attacking Georgia, therefore it must face consequences, not sanctions, said Eckart von Klaeden, foreign policy spokesperson for the German conservatives at a debate ahead of the EU summit on Georgia.

A common European position could only be based on the "founding principle of the EU - the rule of law", argued Mr von Klaeden.

The Georgian decision to attack Tskhinvali was a mistake, say Polish and US officials

"In Germany in the last few years, we used double standards about Russia, because we judged it too mildly. We have to adjust our policies", he said during a debate in Brussels between the Russian ambassador to the EU and Georgia's minister for reintegration organised by the German Marshall Fund.

One of the possible consequences could concern the visa liberalisation regime for Russia, but the Polish foreign minister, Radoslaw Sikorski, rejected that idea.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:05:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

EUOBSERVER/BRUSSELS - Russia breached the international law when attacking Georgia, therefore it must face consequences, not sanctions, said Eckart von Klaeden, foreign policy spokesperson for the German conservatives at a debate ahead of the EU summit on Georgia.

A common European position could only be based on the "founding principle of the EU - the rule of law", argued Mr von Klaeden.

Maybe I missed it, but I never heard von Klaeden denouncing another attack breaching international law, that of the USA against Iraq. (He did propose German participation in the occupőation, however.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:20:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

German Business Leaders Oppose Sanctions Against Russia | NEWS | Deutsche Welle | 01.09.2008
The Federation of German Industries (BDI) said Monday it was opposed to sanctions being imposed on Russia over the conflict in Georgia and called for dialogue rather than confrontation. EU leaders seem to agree.

The Federation of German Industries (BDI) issued its call against sanctions as European Union (EU) leaders prepared to hold an extraordinary summit in Brussels to discuss the bloc's response to the crisis in the Southern Caucasus.

 

Proposals to put Russia under pressure through sanctions or to halt World Trade Organization (WTO) accession talks or partnership with the European Union (EU) lead in the wrong direction, BDI President Juergen Thumann said.

  

"We would all lose if this were to happen," Thumann added.


by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Russia and the West: The Cold Peace - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who currently holds the rotating EU presidency, closely coordinated the preparations for the special summit with Merkel: phone calls at all levels, no effort spared to find a common position, lavish praise on all sides.

Meanwhile, various ministries in Berlin have started to doubt the credibility of the most problematic friend of the West. Saakashvili, contrary to his own version of events, apparently ordered the attack on South Ossetia before the Russian tanks entered the province from the north via the Roki Tunnel.

'Carelessly Playing with Fire'

This was reported by military observers working with the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) who were in Georgia at the time. Information from tapped phone conversations involving Georgian political leaders may have also made its way into the reports, which have been leaked from OSCE headquarters in Vienna. One source who is personally familiar with the reports summarized the findings as follows: "Saakashvili lied 100 percent to all of us, the Europeans and the Americans."

Just last week, the Georgian president told Germany's mass-circulation Bild newspaper: "We respected the cease-fire. It wasn't until the Russian tanks rolled into South Ossetia that we deployed our artillery." The OSCE reports also indicate that Saakashvili attacked the civilian population while they were asleep in their beds. That could be tantamount to a war crime. "Our dialogue with Georgia has to become more critical again," says a top Western diplomat.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU preparing civilian mission for Georgia - Europe, World - The Independent

EU nations are preparing to send hundreds of civilian monitors to Georgia to verify whether Russian forces are complying with a cease-fire agreement after last month's war, foreign policy chief Javier Solana said today.

Solana said he hoped EU nations would approve the plan in the coming weeks with monitors initially to be deployed across areas controlled by Georgian forces. He said the mission would aim to spread to the breakaway Georgian provinces of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, which Russia last week recognized as independent nations.

Russia last month repelled a Georgian offensive against South Ossetia and sent troops, tanks and bombers deep into undisputed Georgian territory, where some still maintain positions.

"It will be a mission in the hundreds, not a huge one," Solana told reporters at EU headquarters. EU leaders were expected to discuss the mission later today at a special summit in Brussels.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:10:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU to Evaluate Ties with Russia, Postpone Partnership Talks | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 01.09.2008
At an emergency summit, the EU condemned Russia's recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and voted to postpone the next round of strategic partnership talks with Russia pending the withdrawal of troops.

EU leaders gathering for an emergency summit in Brussels vowed to be "vigilant" in their ties with Russia. The European Union expects "Russia to act responsibly, in line with all its commitments," according to a statement released on Monday.

The bloc will "examine carefully and deeply the situation and the different dimensions of EU-Russia relations," the statement said. In the meantime, the next round of strategic partnership talks scheduled for Sept. 15 have been postponed.

Partnership talks postponed pending troop withdrawal

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift:  French President Sarkozy and EU Commissioner Barroso "As long as the withdrawal of (Russian) troops has not been respected, all meetings on the partnership accord are postponed," European Commission Presidnet Jose Manuel Barroso said at the conclusion of the summit.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 01:13:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Europeans meet on crisis in Georgia - International Herald Tribune

BRUSSELS: The leaders of the European Union, having repeatedly warned Moscow in vain to abide by the six-point cease-fire agreement negotiated by France to end the fighting with Georgia, gathered here on Monday in an emergency meeting and after several hours of talks decided to warn Moscow again.

In a week, a delegation will travel to Moscow to insist, they said, that Russia withdraw all its troops to their positions before the fighting broke out between Georgia and Russia on Aug. 7.

The European leaders said that if Russia did not comply, a second round of talks with Moscow on a strategic partnership agreement with the European Union, scheduled for mid-September, would be postponed.

That was as close to a penalty as the European leaders agreed on, pressed to do even that much by Poland, Sweden and the Baltic states, and it was meant to show Russia that it was on probation.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 01:15:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Peter Lavelle/Blog@RussiaToday : The EU just "doesn't get" Russia


The EU has responded to Russia's actions in the South Caucuses - and it was a real non-event. As I expected a lot of heat was created, but precious little light. Of course, as I expected, there were no punitive sanctions announced and the only "punishment" Russia faces is a postponement of negotiations on the Russia-EU Strategic Partnership Agreement. Big deal! How is it that the EU response is so benign?

The EU says it will review its relations with Russia from top to bottom. I suggest something far simpler. The EU should get to know the new Russia and stop thinking so highly of itself. Russia is waiting to work with a partner, not an ill-informed crusader.

by blackhawk on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 02:35:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A land rush in rural Russia - International Herald Tribune

PODLESNY, Russia: The fields around this little farming enclave are among the most fertile on earth. But like tens of million of acres of land in this country, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they literally went to seed.

Now that may be changing. A decade after capitalism transformed Russian industry, an agricultural revolution is stirring in the countryside, shaking up village life and sweeping aside the collective farms that resisted earlier reform efforts and remain the dominant form of agriculture.

The transformation is being driven by soaring global food prices (the price of wheat alone rose 77 percent last year) and a new change allowing foreigners to own agricultural land. Together, they have created a land rush in rural Russia.

"Where else do you have such an abundance of land?" Samir Suleymanov, the World Bank's director for Russia, asked during an interview.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, anywhere I look, I (can only) see the wonders of capitalism!

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
i saw a tv report about this. there was a farmer from shropshire who had bought a huge piece, iirc there was one field of 6000 acres, no hedge or fence in sight. chem fert and combines that are the size of small houses...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Finland and Sweden revive debates on NATO membership EUobserver

Until recently, discussion of possible NATO membership has not been a lively political topic in neutral Finland and Sweden, but Russia's actions in Georgia have encouraged those who back membership to become more vocal.

"We need to reconsider our security policy," said the Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb in an interview with Austria's Die Presse on Saturday (30 August).

Mr Stubb --  Russia's actions have changed the context of the NATO debate

Traditional conflicts are making a comeback in the post-9/11 era - he argued - saying Finland needs to begin to consider NATO membership, that the Georgian conflict has highlighted the UN's problems and the need for a more active security policy.

"The talk about how nothing has changed is inconceivable to me," said the conservative Mr Stubb, who represents the smaller coalition party in the government.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
With apologies to Starvid, but now it's official: conservative politicians are mad, even in Scandinavia.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now it's obvious why they needed this little war and pushed Sak to start it.It was a win win situation.If Russia did not react that would be another win for NATO and if they reacted as they did it will "revive" NATO...Nothing here was a mistake.
by vbo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 08:04:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting thought. Mind you, that would pre-suppose that those who wound up Sakashvilli have the ability to plan in such a way and the evidence isn't compelling.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:00:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The World from Berlin: SPD in 'Dangerous Experiment' With Left-Party Deal - International - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News

Germany's Left Party has voted to enter into an alliance with the center-left Social Democrats and the Greens in the state of Hesse. A tie-up with former communists is a risky move for the SPD. If the "red-red-green" government fails, the SPD will suffer in next year's general election, say commentators.

SPD Hesse regional leader Andrea Ypsilanti wants to have herself elected as state governor with the support of the Left Party. Germany's Left Party agreed at a regional party conference on Saturday to back an attempt by the center-left Social Democrats and the Greens to form a minority government in the western state of Hesse to oust current caretaker governor Roland Koch.

Koch, who is a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democrats, has been managing a caretaker government ever since he lost his absolute majority in a January election. That vote prompted months of to-ing and fro-ing by the SPD about whether to form a government in Hesse with the help of the Left Party, which is made up of ex-communists and disenchanted former members of the SPD.

The SPD had pledged before the election not to join forces with the Left Party. However, the party failed to reach the necessary majority for its preferred coalition with the Greens in that election and regional SPD leader Andrea Ypsilanti has since changed her mind about seeking Left Party backing and has secured the blessing of national SPD leader Kurt Beck.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Will diary the loooong battle if real events start happening.

Note BTW the spin in the opening paragraph: re-branding outside support for a minority government as 'alliance' - a word journalists often use as repetition-avoiding synonym for 'coalition'.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Business Feed Article | Business | guardian.co.uk
MADRID, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero on Monday injected a note of caution into government forecasts for strong growth to resume in the second half of next year. "The forecasts, and what everyone and all the international organisations expect, is that we will return to the path of growth in the second half of next year," Zapatero told Telecinco television, before adding a proviso.
"I want to stress these are forecasts, because it could be that we start growing a bit earlier or a bit later as it depends on factors which no one can control, for example the oil price," he said, blaming the economic downturn on the U.S. subprime crisis.
Spain's gross domestic product, which grew an average 3.8 percent a year over the past decade, has sunk close to stagnation this year, with quarterly growth reaching a 15-year-low 0.1 percent from April to June as the credit crunch tore a hole in a property bubble.
The Socialist government has insisted the country will return to near 3-percent annual growth in 2010, although some economists expect years of sluggish performance as the country works off high private sector debt and improves its poor competitiveness.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:03:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | New Russian world order: the five principles

Here are the principles, in the words which President Medvedev used in an interview with the three main Russian TV channels (translated by the BBC Monitoring Service).

1. International law

"Russia recognises the primacy of the basic principles of international law, which define relations between civilised nations. It is in the framework of these principles, of this concept of international law, that we will develop our relations with other states."

2. Multi-polar world

"The world should be multi-polar. Unipolarity is unacceptable, domination is impermissible. We cannot accept a world order in which all decisions are taken by one country, even such a serious and authoritative country as the United States of America. This kind of world is unstable and fraught with conflict."

3. No isolation

"Russia does not want confrontation with any country; Russia has no intention of isolating itself. We will develop, as far as possible, friendly relations both with Europe and with the United State of America, as well as with other countries of the world."

4. Protect citizens

"Our unquestionable priority is to protect the life and dignity of our citizens, wherever they are. We will also proceed from this in pursuing our foreign policy. We will also protect the interest of our business community abroad. And it should be clear to everyone that if someone makes aggressive forays, he will get a response."

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"will develop, as far as possible, friendly relations both with Europe and with the United State of America, as well as with other countries of the world."

I wonder which version of Europe is Russia proposing to develop friendly relations with. If one wanted to negotiate with Europe, which organization would one approach?

by asdf on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 06:38:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As Kissinger once asked "If I want to call europe, which number do I dial ?"

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:03:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Credit crunch could lead to crime wave, Home Office warns Downing Street - Telegraph
The economic downturn is set to lead to more crime, fewer police, more illegal immigration and a rise in far right extremism, a leaked Home Office letter reveals.

A blunt assessment of the pressures that a recession will bring on law and order is detailed in a document which is to be sent to Number 10 from Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary.

It outlines the potential rises in crime, including violent crime, that could occur because of the credit crisis. Overall crime is expected to rise as a result of the more difficult economic times, which could also fuel terrorism, it warns.

The document also claims there will be an increase in "hostility" towards migrants as people question the financial assistance newcomers are given by the state.

The Conservatives said the revelations "ripped the veil" off complacent statements made by ministers about improving performance at the Home Office. In particular there is concern about lack of resources at Britain's border security operations.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:07:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why "more illegal immigration" ? Or are we still in scary-black-people mode ?

I still want to know why europe doens't have an immigration policy. After all, once somebody is inside europe, they're free to go wherever they like. And I cannot understand for the life of me why they want to come to the UK which is increasingly the least friendly place for undocumented workers in europe.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Compare the UK figure of 4000 undocumented's expulsions with the French figure of 26000... The UK is much, much more friendly. Also, most people in the world speak English...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:29:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Green Car Congress: European Poll Finds 87% Support Urgent 25% Reduction in New Car Fuel Consumption
An opinion poll in five major European countries--France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK-- found a strong majority (87%) of those surveyed support an urgent reduction in new car fuel consumption of 25%--equivalent to the 120 g CO2/km target being discussed by the European Parliament. The results come ahead of decisive votes in the European Parliament on proposed new legally-binding target for new car CO2 emissions.

The poll--carried out by TNS Opinion--probed close to 5,000 people in the five countries. Almost half (46%) of respondents think that requiring manufacturers to reduce the fuel consumption of vehicles is the best approach to reduce fuel consumption and emissions, ahead of tax incentives (27%) and promoting fuel-efficient cars through better information (13%). Seven percent support restrictions on the use of cars.

European Federation for Transport and Environment: European poll shows huge public support for fuel efficient cars (August 28th)

...

Also, around two thirds (64 per cent) of citizens support the statement that such measures will be good for their national economy because people will buy less fuel and have more money to spend on other things. Respondents listed fuel consumption (64 per cent) as the most important factor, apart from price, when choosing a new car. Safety was second (37 per cent) and environmentally clean third (26 per cent).

The findings seem to show that citizens don't buy carmakers' claims that the proposed legislation would damage their industry.

German respondents felt the most strongly that requiring manufacturers to reduce fuel consumption was the best way to improve efficiency, despite the German car industry's attempts to weaken the planned legislation.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 03:58:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
87% of the population of europe vs 100% of rich industry lobbyists capable of ensuring influential politicians are "well-rewarded" for their support.

no contest. Gas guzzlers here we come. Whatever happened to companies like hummvee, GM and Ford who lobbied for similar policies in the US by the way ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:11:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Moreover, this news has gotten too little play. Teh google tells me there are press releases by AFP and Reuters, but virtually no independent newspaper articles. Friday news...

Another story by Transport & Environment has gotten marginally more attention:

Motor industry: Carmakers failing to achieve CO2 cuts

· Activists say some MEPs influenced by industry
· Targets 'like banning non-smokers from smoking'

David Gow in Brussels

Europe's motor industry is still a long way from meeting EU targets for cutting carbon dioxide emissions from new cars and governments must increase pressure on carmakers to comply, green transport campaigners warned yesterday.

Transport & Environment (T&E), a pan-European lobby group, accused the industry of fighting tooth and nail - with government support - to water down the proposed EU emission limits.

T&E said the 14 top carmakers in the European market still had to cut engine emissions by 17% to reach the EU's 2012 target of 130 grams a kilometre.


Constant pressure is the only way this can be won.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 06:14:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the rebate-feebate policies in France have led to a massive shift towards smaller cars. The calculation is that news cars in 2008 are spewing 8% less CO2 than those sold in 2007 - that's a massive shift.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 04:30:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2008/09/hrw-continues-f.html#more

HRW Continues False Accusations Against Russia
In its August 15 and 21 press releases HRW accused Russia of using cluster ammunition in Shindisi near Gori in Georgia. In the September 1 press release HRW admits that the submunition found there was not Russian, but 'western' M85 submunition as used by the Georgian army.

But as this current screenshot of the HRW homepage shows, it is still accusing Russia and it is still distributing the obviously false 'evidence' to make that case.

by vbo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 10:31:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
WORLD
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 02:56:34 PM EST
Japanese PM, Yasuo Fukuda, in shock resignation after just one year in job - Times Online

Japan was in political confusion tonight after the sudden and puzzling resignation of Yasuo Fukuda, the Prime Minister, which came without warning after a year of parliamentary deadlock and failed attempts to invigorate the Japanese economy.

There was no obvious trigger for the announcement, the second change of leader in less than a year, which opens the way to the right-wing nationalist Taro Aso to become prime minister, and increases the likelihood of a general election in the next few months.

Mr Fukuda's announcement took the Japanese political world by surprise and his explanation -- that he wished to hand over power to a new leader in advance of a new session of parliament -- was puzzling, given that the next prime minister is certain to face difficulties just as punishing as Mr Fukuda.

"I thought there should be a force to take things forward," he said in nationally televised press conference. "There should not be any political vacuum. A new force will be needed to implement policies, I thought, so I have decided to resign."

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hehe... and yawn regarding Taro Aso.

Paging tuasfait! And Zweckus, marco, das monde and whoever I forgot too. I'd love some inside views on what's going on; and what's up with the Democratic Party in the meantime.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
President Medvedev of Russia offers to help train the Afghan police - Times Online

Russia is planning to send members of its security forces to train their counterparts in Afghanistan for the first time since the Soviet Union withdrew from the country in 1989, The Times has learnt.

At a meeting with President Karzai in Tajikistan last week President Medvedev offered to send 225 Russian police officers to help to train the Afghan National Police (ANP), according to Afghan officials. Mr Karzai, who met the Russian leader at a summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation on Thursday, accepted his offer and the details are being discussed, the officials said.

The Afghan Interior Ministry confirmed that there was a verbal agreement, and an official at the Russian Embassy said that there could be more information later this week.

The number may be tiny compared with the 70,000 or so troops from Nato, the US and its allies now deployed in Afghanistan, some of whom are already training the ANP, but the agreement highlights Russia's determination to reassert its influence in Central Asia, the Caucasus and other regions that it sees as lying within its strategic "sphere of influence".

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Raw Story | Bush quietly seeks to make war powers permanent, by declaring indefinite state of war
As the nation focuses on Sen. John McCain's choice of running mate, President Bush has quietly moved to expand the reach of presidential power by ensuring that America remains in a state of permanent war.

Buried in a recent proposal by the Administration is a sentence that has received scant attention -- and was buried itself in the very newspaper that exposed it Saturday. It is an affirmation that the United States remains at war with al Qaeda, the Taliban and "associated organizations."

Part of a proposal for Guantanamo Bay legal detainees, the provision before Congress seeks to "acknowledge again and explicitly that this nation remains engaged in an armed conflict with Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated organizations, who have already proclaimed themselves at war with us and who are dedicated to the slaughter of Americans."

The New York Times' page 8 placement of the article in its Saturday edition seems to downplay its importance. Such a re-affirmation of war carries broad legal implications that could imperil Americans' civil liberties and the rights of foreign nationals for decades to come.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Embryonic Police State, anyone?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:20:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
given the NYT's collusion with the Bush regime, I'm surprised it even got a mention.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:12:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dozens of protesters will be arraigned Tuesday in front of a [Denver] municipal judge, with many expected to plead not guilty, to force a jury trial. The city had 154 convention-related arrests, mostly for interfering with police authority. On Friday, seven of 24 accused protesters pleaded guilty. The rest want to go to trial.

"This was an overblown security plan," said Glenn Spagnuolo, co founder of protest group Recreate 68. "As a visual deterrent in general, people were afraid to get out and express their dissent because of the presence."

http://www.denverpost.com/politics/ci_10340317

by asdf on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 07:06:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't even narrow it down to one story for Palingate at this point, so I'll leave it at this:

Either John McCain has lost his mind or we're being punked.

He's got two days to pull her before she's officially nominated.  Pulling her means a possible collapse and floor fight in St Paul, likely between the social conservatives and the supply-siders.  That's Mittens and Pawlenty.

It will not be pretty if it comes to that, but the alternative (keeping Palin) could be even worse, because it's basically become an hourly news dump.  The McCain campaign can't keep its story straight on the vetting.  The party elders have got to be losing their shit in DC.

And tomorrow, Gustav won't be gumming up the headlines.

The press smells blood, so I wouldn't bet on Palin lasting.

Popcorn sales in America's urban and suburban centers may go sky-high.  Invest accordingly.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 12:04:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Know what's funny?

McCain put himself into this position.  It's an Own Goal.  His own half-assed campaign organization ran itself into a brick wall.

Now they are either going to have to spend the next 60 days spending an inordinate amount of time and energy defending Palin or they dump her and spend the next 60 days spending an inordinate amount of time and energy defending that decision.

Either way, they've got little time to turn this around.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 12:29:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Palin will step down before the nomination, blaming the librul blogger attack dogs.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 07:24:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Let her do that.  Voters don't care that bloggers did that.  She'll come off as whiny.  We win again.

Now the discussion is turning to John McCain's judgment, right where we want it.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:03:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Have you noticed how Repub. talk about Obama is currently non-existent?  What happened to all that "He's not ready?  He's not seasoned enough, blah blah"?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:31:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What are they going to say?  By choosing Palin, McCain pissed away the already-stupid reasoning behind his candidacy and made it laughable.  What could they possibly go at Obama with now on anything of substance?

Experience?  Nope.  Judgment?  Hahahahahahaha.

They've got nothing now.  Which makes them dangerous, because they're going to be in cornered-animal mode.  It's only a matter of time before they start rolling out the racist ads.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:28:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know, I'm quite impressed at how the Dems have played this.  They're defining her perfectly without stepping on any landmines.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:30:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I watched Olbermann last night and he stuck to the hurricane and LA; no mention of Palin.  It's called the high road; Repubs haven't been there for quite some time.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:33:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You wouldn't send a guy like Olbermann to do it.  This is why I advocated sending Hillary's people (Carville, Begala, Wolfson, etc).  They're robots.  Brilliant at slamming the message.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:52:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mmmh, popcorn. My guess is they stick with her, but I'm not betting on it. Apparently McCain was set on Holy Joe, maybe he can fall back on that - the reaction on fundy wing should cause another popcorn boom.
by MarekNYC on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 01:14:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you imagine one evangelical or catholic vote switching because of any of this? As if they care about vetting or whether palin's 5th child is actually her daughters...and if they do care, it is reinforcing their love and admiration for this poor-woman-against-the-world, doing the love your kid thing, while successfully fighting off the environmentalists.

Obama had been cutting into the white evangelical vote. I just can't imagine that this will continue. Pinging around the intertubes, it seems that they were no less than 8% of Bush's vote and at some absurd percentage - like 80% or something.

They, yet again, have a chance at 3 members of the Supreme Court. They won't throw it away on the anti-Christ.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 03:08:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you imagine one evangelical or catholic vote switching because of any of this?
Sure, absolutely. Some will. Will enough switch? That's another matter.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 03:16:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or more to the point, will enough not turn up on the day?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 03:35:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you imagine one evangelical or catholic vote switching because of any of this?

My dear siegestate, you don't appreciate how judgmental the American people are about other people's lives.

Yes, I do think this will move some votes, because Palin is out-to-lunch and McCain is clearly incompetent.  It's like Terri Schiavo and Michael Brown all rolled into one.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:05:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I, of course, hope you are right, and since I can't read the american press, (part of the treaty agreement signed when I left the states) I have to presume that I am wrong.

But judgmental or no, single-issue politics bring people to the polls, and the people they bring leave logic at the door.

Pre-DemConvention, there were 43% who said that they are pro-McLame, (and we know that the evangelicals were not bending to him in those numbers.) the 43% have already seen him mis-speak and get caught in lies and distortions. Of course, the liberal press is going to say these things about him. We would disagree then on the non-evangelicals who might think that he is not so solid after all, and that the war shouldn't be won, that america should just capitulate, that we should allow taxes to increase...the whole 9 yards in one single issue.

I don't know. Maybe a few might consider staying at home, but then they get their Rush rush, and get reminded about the liberal press during the 15 minutes of hate...no, I don't think they are going to vote for the skinny muslim and that white haired guy who is obviously too stupid to run the economy if he can't have saved more money after all those years in the Senate. (I actually read that in some blog comment.)

And the catholics and evangelicals...Every Sunday these voters go to church - 70-80% of sundays according to one poll that I don't care to look up again.) They are going to have their heads beat in about their responsibility to do Gawd's will. They are going to be reminded how close we are to Sodom and Ghamorrah as it is, and we need to change right now or hell will be better than the sinners paradise that will be if Gawd's messenger is not anointed by the November 4 vote.

They were in a righteous snit when they realized how they had been played for these last couple elections; all pro, no quid. This is their bone. They won't care when it is discovered that Palin's husband got the daughter preggers. They don't care if she spits blood during the debate...perhaps they would actually like that. They only want her in the White House.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 12:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"part of the treaty agreement signed when I left the states"

This is tongue in cheek, right?

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 03:25:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tongue in cheek....right.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 06:37:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My experience of fundie attitudes to sexual "misdemeanours" (and, believe me, I have experience in that field), is that they are sovereignly capable of double standards.

Those whom the Lord has anointed as leaders of the flock are tried and tested. (Stands to reason, the closer y'are to the Lord, the more fires the devil lights under you, right?) When they (or theirs) slip up, the Evil One has scored a point by putting extra temptation pressure on them (and theirs). What's needed is prayerful support of the tempted and temporarily straying anointed ones. Not judgement. (Some will even come out with how they are minded of our Lord's words, "Judge not lest ye be judged").

OTOH, we have sin in the world. Real sin is done by real sinners. These are Bad People. They are not us, they are not of us, and their sin must be fought with the utmost vigour. In such cases, believers may feel led by the Lord to pray for fire and brimstone, or maybe just a rainstorm to prevent an outdoor speech.

In other words, though some more reasonable Evangelicals may find dissonance in the Palin family story, the more radical fundies will, imo, just bullshit their way round it.

How the media handle the McCain campaign, though, is entirely another question.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 05:04:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's no chance they'll dump her. I still think she may not prove to be anything like as bad a choice as we imagine.

Sure, for info-rich middle class liberals like us, she's almost a joke of a candidate. But most voters anywhere aren't info-rich. They're indifferent to the outside world and just want to get on with their lives; as far as they're concerned,we're the weirdoes too big for our boots.

They don't research stuff, they don't think deeply about issues. Far as they're concenred things are either right or wrong and their gut instinct tells them most anything they need to know about that. They go off things they see on tv news on Fox, they go by what their friends say and they go;-
she hunts moose, you go girl
She shoots wolves from helicopters. Gee, that looks like fun.
She has a good family who look after each other.
she's religious
She looks smart with those glasses, yet she's almost a beauty queen.

And they all get one vote. Same as all the USians here, and one more than the rest of us. It might be a smart pick

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:22:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...their gut instinct tells them most anything they need to know about that.

Right on. That's Colbert's truthiness.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 04:29:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Popcorn sales in America's urban and suburban centers may go sky-high.  Invest accordingly.

Yes, here at the ET school for serious journalism, the successor to The Muppet School.  Where IS Dr. Bunsen Honeydew?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 06:03:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bunsen Honeydew is a senior advisor to the McCain campaign.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:30:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's off and running.

Washington Journal, CSPAN, Tues. AM (CA)

Was Palin vetted enough (in light of the pregnancy)?

Dems are being nice; Reps are ragged.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 07:14:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Congratulations bloggers!  You are being blamed (credited) with this pregnancy being in the news, along with a discussion of sex ed., etc.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 07:19:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, puh-lease... Waiting for "it's the liberal bloggers that force me to stand down as McCain's running mate".

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 07:23:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Man, this show is HOT this morning!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 07:29:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
embarrassed by the mess-age, shoot the messenger, standard MO.

watching o'reilly gunning for dkos last night was belly-clutching funny.

never a word about savage, limbaugh et al...

just those haters over at the orangerie-

fair and balanced. you gotta laugh to keep from crying.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 07:44:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We have conservative Repubs from Texas DEFENDING SINGLE-MOTHERHOOD !!!

This is turning fucking weird.  

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 07:28:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Time has an article on Palin, with some new stories.
Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." The librarian, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire her for not giving "full support" to the mayor.

And then there's a mother-in-law story:
When Palin, who went on to win re-election by a landslide, was finally forced out of the Mayor's office by term limits in 2002, her husband Todd's stepmother Faye Palin ran for Mayor. She did not, however, get Sarah Palin's endorsement. A couple of people told me that they thought abortion was the reason for Palin not supporting her family member -- Faye is, they say, pro-choice, not to mention a Democrat. A former city councilman recalls that it was a heated race, mainly because of right-to-life issues
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:19:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Might be a good idea to label this behaviour 'Cheney'-esque.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 06:21:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dick Cheney in a pantsuit.

There's some imagery for ya.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:29:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 02:57:01 PM EST
Goodbye Monaco, hello Montenegro - Times Online

The roads are crumbling and the power and water supply is erratic but British investors are placing bets. Welcome to Tivat, which is being described as the Monaco of the Balkans.

It may lack the cachet of Cannes, but developers have big plans for Tivat, a derelict port and former Yugoslav naval base in the tiny former communist country of Montenegro.

A group of high-profile investors, including Lord Rothschild, the financier and friend of the Prince of Wales, and his son Nat, are converting what used to be the dockyard into a marina for the oversized yachts of the rich and famous.

It is hoped that Porto Montenegro, as it is to be christened, will become a magnet for mega-rich yacht owners cruising the Mediterranean.

[Murdoch Alert]
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:07:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Russians already bought a lot of Montenegro.
Yes, Adriatic coast of ex YU is really , really great...
by vbo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 08:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | UK | Amateur diplomat sought Nazi pact

A British amateur diplomat tried to make a peace deal with Germany in World War II, National Archive files reveal.

Old Etonian James Lonsdale-Bryans travelled to Italy to meet German diplomat Ulrich von Hassell.

He proposed to him that Germany could have a "free hand" in Europe while Britain ran the rest of the world.

MI5 files released under the Freedom of Information Act show that security service officials knew of the Rome trip but did not try to stop it.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:08:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
China planning 'world's fastest train' from Beijing to Shanghai - Telegraph
China is planning to build the world's fastest bullet train, to link Beijing with the financial capital Shanghai.

In a sign the country's ambitions to go faster, higher and bigger have not been dimmed by the end of the Olympics, the Ministry of Railways says it is raising the speed it intends the new line connecting the cities to reach when it opens in 2012.

New technology will enable trains to travel at 380 km or 236 miles an hour, 30 km per hour (18mph) more than the current generation of bullet trains, according to the ministry's deputy chief engineer, Zhang Shuguang.

"It is possible that we can start to manufacture 380 km/h trains in two years' time, and put them into service on the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway," he said, according to state media.

The high-speed line from Beijing to Shanghai has been an on-off project for several years, but work finally began in April.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 03:08:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am veeery sceptical.

Purely on power and speed, they could still go for it with present technology, but accepting as drawbacks:

  • very high energy usage,
  • very high noise,
  • uncomfortable run for passengers,
  • high track wear (meaning more maintenance, quicker track replacement, and thus much higher infrastructure costs),
  • reduced safety and/or train frequency.

Spain (Siemens Velaro, Talgo 350) and Japan (JR East test trains) had trouble at 350-360 km/h, the latter even gave up on the idea. China itself failed with a massive project to develop just a standard 300 km/h regular service train from a domestic product line, then purchased 250-300 km/h trains from around the world with technology transfer - but 380 km/h would be entirely new terrain to develop.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...which doesn't mean that I'd doubt that high-speed trains would do 380 km/h, even 400 km/h in the future; but not soon, and not after the inauguration of Beijing-Shanghai.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 04:49:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would be willing to bet that there are significant improvements in railroad aerodynamic drag that will be developed. The current shape of trains is in no way aerodynamic, compared to a low drag car.

Even advanced "maglev" trains are pretty crude from the airflow viewpoint.

by asdf on Mon Sep 1st, 2008 at 06:49:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is that lower picture the new Chuo express line in Japan?  I've seen promotional posters in various places about it, but didn't know if it was actually under construction or just a project proposal.
by Zwackus on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 06:48:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Methinks its a photo on the test track built in the eighties.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:37:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Although I'd see the need of testing tunnel aerodynamics, building a test track in mountaineous terrain sounds expensive ?

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 08:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
With all flat areas in Japan built up and land prices prior to the end of the Japanese housing market crash, I'm not so sure...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:36:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, the whole route they're planning for the Chuo is mountains.  Chuo means center, and it would run right through the center of Japan from Tokyo to Kyoto/Osaka, through a route that's at least 70% mountain.  If they built the test track on part of the proposed route, it'd save money later, I guess.

And the train looks identical to the ones in the promo posters.  And with that style of big stone retaining wall in the background, I think it could only be in Japan.

by Zwackus on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 05:42:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are of course right, the photo shows the world record holder (581 km/h) MLX01 train on the 18.4 km Yamanashi Test Track (I think exactly here, looking Westward); of which, according to Wikipedia, 16.0 km(!) are in tunnels. (BTW, further to asdf, the two end cars have different designs, and one was further optimised aerodynamically with an even longer nose, see photos on Japanese Wiki) I checked and found that I was off concerning the time of construction: the original test track was built in the seventies, while the current one (different location) in 1990-1996, thus after the Japanese real estate/asset price bubble burst.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 06:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hm, it may look crude, but I bet it has pretty good airflow. It's just that with one seat, three gears and a high body, you can have more elegant curving lines than for a wide-bodied, long rail-riding something. Also, the best aerodynamic shape for a train is something not sleek but un-aesthetic: the 'duckbill' shape displayed by the Talgo350, the newer Shinkansens, and (moderately) by the French AGV (better resistance to the toppling forces of side winds).

High-speed train shape and external surface count most in noise. Both the French AGV and the JR East Fastech prototypes tried their utmost. There was also the idea to reduce drag by applying the pattern of shark skin, but that's difficult, and what about all the dirt and bugs collected up from the air ahead of the train.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Sep 2nd, 2008 at 09:14:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As an example of the ugly duckbill shape referred to downthread, here is the most modern Shinkansen, the Series N700 (a 300 km/h full-speed tilting train)sporting the arguably best aerodynamics of in-service trains today:



*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinctio