UK minister says "f*ck climate, we need more energy now"

by Jerome a Paris
Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 06:57:02 PM EST

No more cheap energy, warns cabinet minister John Hutton

He says: "Of course we've got to tackle climate change, it's a real and present danger for used, but we've also got to be absolutely clear that our energy policy has got to be figured first and foremost with a view to supplying Britain with affordable and secure energy it needs for the future.

"That is why we cannot turn our back on any proven form of technology. We cannot afford to say no to new coal, new gas or new nuclear."

The whole article is depressing: not a word about demand or energy efficiency. Just more investment and calls to diversify away from evil Russia.

Sigh... And we can expect all of Europe to think, and behave, along the same lines, of course.


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It's absolutely hysterical:


Mr Hutton warns that with threats of a new Cold War opening up with Russia - which supplies a large part of the gas Britain is forced to import - securing reliable energy supplies has become vitally important.

Russia supplies only marginal volumes of gas to the UK, if at all, so that sentence is plain false. Most UK imports come from Norway and, in the near future, will come by LNG from places like Qatar (big contracts have been signed).

And the Soviet Union reliably supplied gas to Europe during the real Cold War - indeed, the big pipeline deals were negotiated in the early 80s, at the height of geopolitical tensions between East and West. But hey, here are our politics for the next decade:


"Energy security is fundamental to our existence as an independent, democratic, free state," he says. "I think the events not just in Georgia, but over a longer timescale, have really confirmed the growing importance of energy independence for the UK.

We have a new enemy, yippee! We can build more coal plants and more nukes without oversight.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 07:01:36 PM EST
I'm sure executive branches around the world are rejoicing - things just haven't been the same since the Soviet Union vanished. The new upstarts aren't worth the pain - their stateless nature means they are not subject to the same limitations as government bureaucracies are. The Soviet Union and now Russia are fantastic - their intentions are as easily understood as anyone's, and the fear component is as "good" as any bogeyman.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 08:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yup, i think the fearbuzz of 'terra' was wearing off a bit...

commies are super-handy right now, cuz those mean chinese are beating up tibetans, undercutting our work force, poisoning our dogfood and polluting up a storm.

start with the russians though, they're badass enough, and getting uppity.

move in the gunboats, crank up the terra alerts, under the bed with all thinking citizens, (since they have too little disposable denaro to do any more serious shopping any more...)

"I freed thousands of slaves. I could have freed thousands more, if they had known they were slaves." -Harriet Tubman .

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 10:35:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what commies. Good capitalists all, if anything even more corrrupt and crony oriented than our bunch. The Russkies have even turned all religious on us, just to add to their old-time Red atheist social conservatism.
by MarekNYC on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 10:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Back around 1989 and the fall of the Berlin Wall the cartoonist Tolles, then from Buffalo, NY, produced a two panel cartoon.  The first panel showed an areal view to the Pentagon with the caption: "Planners at the Pentagon are working hard on how to bring the Soviet Union down."  The next panel showed a quadragon version of the pentagon with the caption: "Planners at the newly downsized quadragon are working hard on how to bring the Soviet Union back!"  That captured it better than any pundit I read.  There was panic in the M-I Complex when Democrats started asking: "Where is the peace dividend?"

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 11:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The US needs an enemy, if only for internal politics (or economics). They would just not allow Russia or Iran to play nice. The propaganda logic does not care that the US spends on military more than the rest of the world combined. At least Oceania was a matching opponent in "1984".
by das monde on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 12:39:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not just capitalist but neoliberal too.
...Medvedev holds the same neoliberal and meritocratic values as his G8 peers; he is no more of a socialist or even a social democrat. In a telling passage in his inaugural speech, he said he wanted more Russians "to swell the ranks of the middle class and gain access to good education and healthcare". There was no suggestion that single mothers, the elderly, the poor and unskilled workers might also deserve decent services. No word either about stopping the decline of state schools and hospitals and their accelerating marketisation, as parents and patients have to pay for what used to be free while private institutions emerge to cream off the best staff. Everything is subordinated to the rightwing yuppie view that only the middle classes matter, since they (ie people like me) are the motor for growth and democracy.

Jonathan Steele, At last, a true moderniser in Moscow. Why punish him?, Guardian, Monday July 14 2008
by Gag Halfrunt on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 06:55:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
>
I think the events not just in Georgia, but over a longer timescale,

Where he says "Over a longer timescale" how long's he talking about?  that looks suspiciously like he's calling Britiains involvement in Iraq a complete disaster, albeit indirectly.

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 08:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
sadly, I think he's just referring to the 2006 "gas crisis" - you know, the one where one freedom-loving ally Ukraine took the Russian gas going to Europe and Russia got blamed for it.

Just for kicks, Russia should let Shell or BP have some gas at the Russian border and deal with the Ukrainians themselves. That might be enlightening.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 06:37:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmm, now that Tymoshchenko is Prime Minister I don't think there would be a problem...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 06:38:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't forget that there are two Ukrainian gas businesses:

  • the official one, whereby the national Ukrainian gas company gets a given volume of gas (around 20-25bcm/y) in exchange for transit fees for Russian exports further West. This is a mostly fair deal for both sides, although it allows for lots of funny accounting

  • the shady one, where shady intermediaries linked to Gazprom sell to shady buyers in Ukraine, which onsell to friends and other clients at lowish prices and take a nice cut along the way, shared with the Russian intermediary. Gazprom gets very little money on that chunk of the business, and final customers get a more or less good price depending on how friendly they are with the intermediaries.

Clans fight permanently to be the preferred party to that second deal, and the clans that have control over the national Ukrainian gas company can use that position to blackmail Gazprom, or rather those of its Russian managers involved in that trade, into better side deals. Occasioanlly, those 'side' facts spill into the open.

There is also some fighting over the first deal, as gas prices go up while transit prices don't seem to need to change as much, and Gazprom gets unhappy about the original deal (although note that in 2006, it was Ukraine that chose to re-open the issue despite then benefitting form a 5-year contract frawmework with favorable prices in that respect, ie a guaranteed volume of gas for free for 5 years).

So imagine Shell coming with its gas at the Russian-Ukrainian border.  It will be willing to pay market rates for gas transit - to the Ukrainian gas company. But the gas can still be siphoned out by Ukrainians, becuase they can - the question then become, (i) why would they do that (because gas is valuable and they can onsell it), (ii) who can do something about it (the Ukrianian authorities, but could luck with that), and (iii) what can Shell do (they have nothing to offer, unlike the Gazprom managers who can offer to allocate company income for personal gain)?

Like I said, it would quickly put Ukraine in an interesting spot, and Gazprom in an even more interestign one, because they (well, again, its managers) would actually have solutions that would get Shell some money... if not the amounts they's expect.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 06:59:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Given that
In the business period of her life, Tymoshenko involved business relations (either co-operative or hostile) with many important figures of Ukraine, first of all, in Dnipropetrovsk. The list includes Pavlo Lazarenko, Viktor Pinchuk, Ihor Kolomoyskyi, Rinat Akhmetov, and, of course, Leonid Kuchma who at that time was the President. All of them were originating from Dnipropetrovsk. As part of her gas-dealing business, Tymoshenko has also been closely linked to the management of the Russian Gazprom.
Maybe as long as Tymoshenko is PM the official and shady sides will be on the same page?

Or is the Dnipropetrovsk clan the same as the Gazprom faction?

And what is the deal with RosUkrEnergo?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 07:04:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We cannot afford to say no to new coal, new gas or new nuclear."
What does he mean with 'new gas'. If he means power plants, then new gas is exactly what makes the UK more dependent on Russia.
I personally have no problem with that, as I have trust that Russia will deliver in the future, too, but wouldn't with the strong fear of energy dependency the most reasonable thing to do, to announce massive investment into wind, solar, tide, geothermia (if that is possible in the UK), to say, OK, we have to accept some higher energy prices, but therefore get reliable sources?
I'm not aware that the UK would be a cutting-edge on that field. Weird...

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 07:23:25 PM EST
indeed.

but no so much when you think that the goal is not so much to actually solve the problem but just to find someone that can be blamed for it on  the domestic political front.

Wind is not Serious, you should know by now. And enerrgy efficiency is so wimpy and hippy-worthy.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 06:39:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The official lines on energy policy in pretty much all countries are farcial.

I wonder why? Incompetence, evil intent, personal gain, conspiracy or what?

I must say incompetence is as usual a much underestimated force. This is also a happy thought because it means we can change things for the better.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 08:15:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree that incompetence is often underestimated. But how does this mean it can be changed more easily?

If there would be competent politicians, who would e.g. like to help Big Oil, then it is reasonable, that they will shift policies just in time. Not too early, that profits are lost, but as well not too late.
Incompetence allows to run into the abyss, unaware until it is too late.  

Der Amerikaner ist die Orchidee unter den Menschen
Volker Pispers

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 08:29:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree that incompetence is often underestimated. But how does this mean it can be changed more easily?

If politicians, experts and pundits are incompetent we can replace them with ourselves. Just gimme a call in 10 years and you'll see. ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 09:30:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The obvious problem being that "too late" may come at a later point in time for Big Oil than for the rest of us...

- Jake

640 kiloton should be enough for anybody

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 11:14:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bicycle power is the answer. If every Briton, young and old, were only to be issued with a bicycle dynamo to generate all his or her power needs, the nation would soon be self-sufficient, and the Red Gas Menace would be vanquished once and for all.

"We shall pedal on the beaches, we shall pedal on the landing grounds, we shall pedal in the fields and in the streets, we shall pedal in the hills; we shall never surrender!"

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 08:08:51 PM EST
Beans.  Lots and lots of beans!

Red Beans.  White Beans.  Soldier Beans.  Pinto Beans.  

Britain vows to become independent of the import of gaseous products.

Madness takes its toll. Have exact change ready

by ATinNM on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 09:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what are soldier beans?
by MarekNYC on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 09:49:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
After the failure of revolution in Germany in 1848 Marx and Engles were trying to analyze the reasons for the failure and a possible solution.  They feared that the peasantry had been enervated by a diet that relied too much on potatoes. One of them reportedly exclaimed: "It's beans that will nourish our peasantry to a vigorous and manly disposition!"  Alas, just so much gas.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer on Wed Aug 27th, 2008 at 11:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We only pedal in the gyms now, but can't generate some energy there? That would compensate for transportation to there, at least.
by das monde on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 12:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Would it really, though? I can see that riding a bicycle to the gym instead of a car would work to reduce a person's fossil energy consumption, but the actual amount of cycling done _in_ the gym would surely be insufficient to compensate for the energy wasted in driving to the gym and back.

If you wanted to generate an equivalent amount of energy, you'd have to be pedalling a bicycle with a mass of 1 ton or thereabouts, and the hard part is slowing down at all the stop signs and accelerating up again. On the plus side, if you did this regularly, you would have excellent prospects at the Tour de France ;)

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 07:47:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
For a minute there you had me worried. Then I realised it was John Hutton.

Even under Gordo I wonder how this far-right wing lunatic keeps his job. This is a guy who makes half the Tories seem socially respinsible. He's a neo-con of the Thatcherite/Reagan fire-'em-slash-and burn-brigade.

All he's doing is signalling the latest offensive in the nuclear debate. Oh, he's in favour of coal as a stop gap, but he's totally a creature of the nuclear lobby. Which is why you won't see anything about energy savings and especially green energy from him.

He's so 20th century tory in a way even the tories aren't anymore.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Aug 28th, 2008 at 10:16:38 AM EST


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