European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Losing taste for organic food?

by In Wales
Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 04:43:13 AM EST

Taken from today's Guardian

Organic food sales have fallen more than at any time in the last decade as shoppers try to cut costs and experts warn that consumers are more confused than ever about whether it is worth paying the higher prices.
Figures collected for the Guardian by the market research company TNS show spending on organic food and drinks fell from a peak of nearly £100m a month earlier this year to £81m in the most recent four-week period recorded. The fall has been steepest in eggs, but is also reported in the most popular sectors, including dairy, fruit and vegetables and chicken.

Organic food can be outrageously expensive and when it comes to cutting food bills down, it is an obvious first victim for consumers who don't fully live the ethos of healthy, fresh and organic food.

It's great to have the smug feelgood factor of 'I eat organic food' under the pretence that it is done for one's health or out of concern for the environment and not as the lastest bit of bandwagon-jumping-keeping-up-with-the-Jones' fad. But frankly, it isn't necessary to eat organically in the minds of many people, especially when it starts to hurt their pockets.

But what are the implications for organic farming, for those of us who wish to eat organic food to have access to a decent variety that isn't unreasonably overpriced?

Some more discussion in the guardian here suggests that some farmers are turning away from organic production.

Are we seeing similar trends elsewhere in Europe or are the Brits just especially fickle?

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Losing taste for organic food? | 67 comments (61 topical, 6 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 3)

Some friends of mine have been shopping at a Natural Foods Co-op for close to 30 years. Retired college professor, retired high school math teacher. Financially they're set up till they drop dead. They still go to the co-op once a week for grocery shopping and a meal with friends in similar age/financial states. I never saw the evidence that organic foods made a significant difference in one's health; doesn't mean that they don't, I just don't have the data. I go to a normal grocery store; prices are probably 2/3 of the natural food stuff.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:03:49 AM EST

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 3)

I think organic foods make a definite difference to the environment, though.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:08:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 3)

Are you talking pesticide residue or effect of pesticides on farm workers or ...?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:13:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 3)

Also overfarming the land and draining the soil of all nutrients. Organic farming avoids that.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:16:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 3)

Not to mention that organic farms tend to be small; more of them per square mile. So this time next year (again, US centric like I am) with Obama in office, the multinational oil/food companies want to punish the US for having both a Dem White House and Congress, they start closing the taps on oil/food. Watch the response by your average US citizen. Too fucking stupid to figure out who is really screwing them, at each others throats. I saw this same crap in the early '70s with gas rationing in upstate NY. Fist fights breaking out at filling stations.

One of the reasons I go to the local Farmer's Market on a regular basis. Can't hurt once the crunch hits.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:26:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

Farming organically for a living, not for your own consuption, is a technical challenge : controlling weeds and pests can become very difficult.

And all the more so if you try less energy-intensive farming.

I don't see how organic farming would be better for the soil. The right farming practices - non organic - can lead to a very healthy and well structured soil. That means working at the right time with the right tools, alterning crops, etc. You just don't want monoculture or other stupid practices.

We will return to organic farming when liquid oil is expensive enough. But its price would have to be multiplied, or manual labor depreciated many times over, before organic farming becomes cheaper than chemical/energy-intensive farming.

I have never seen a proper comparison of the environmental effect of organic vs traditional farming. One example : the farmer wants to eliminate some weeds in his crop; now, he has a choice between chemicals, using very little energy (small tractor, high speed), or a some kind of mechanical tiller (large tractor, slow speed, lots of energy). Which of the two is the better for the environment ? No one can tell.

The truth is, today's farmers don't have the tools at their disposal to optimize their farming methods, or select their crops if they want to minimize their impact on the environment.

by balbuz on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:54:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Monoculture is an important factor, (none / 1)

but that is only one factor in the problem that is U.S. mega-agriculture. I'd call it emblematic, but not necessarily the worst element. Crop rotation on the large-scale 'farms' would be considered 'organic farming' - if considered at all. The bottom-line, as predicted by commodity futures, is the salient concern. Corn is now King: feed for all meat animals, 'high fructose corn syrup', and ethanol.

Pesticides and herbicides are by-and-large petroleum based; they are overused by large factors, and they are not cheap (and they are now much more expensive). They are dangerous to farm labor, and they are generally more long-'lived' than advertised (you could say that their 'life' is measured in half-lives). To some extent they sterilize the soil, which increases the need for fertilizer and tolerant plant varieties. Point being that there are other 'costs' besides the ones on the balance sheet.

Related item - farm equipment on the mega-farms is heavy 'footprint' and tends to compact the subsoil. Water then tends to accumulate in rainstorms, rather than seep into the ground. Reread the accounts of some of the Midwest flooding from the last few years. There are no references to '100-year' storms or any such cause - just "freak events".

Beyond that - U.S. farm produce is not cheap. Price "supports", highway maintenance for long-range transport, farm-fuel deductions, state and federal agriculture-related 'research', overseas marketing, 'free trade' agreements are all either tax-supported or tax dodges.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 01:16:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 7)

And fertilizer runoff into fresh water streams.

Wikipedia: Causes of Dead Zones

Aquatic and marine dead zones can be caused by an increase in chemical nutrients in the water, known as eutrophication. Chemical fertilizer is considered the prime cause of dead zones around the world.

Eutrophication is an increase in chemical nutrients -- typically compounds containing nitrogen or phosphorus -- in an ecosystem. It may occur on land or in water. The term is however often used to mean the resultant increase in the ecosystem's primary productivity (excessive plant growth and decay), and further effects including lack of oxygen and severe reductions in water quality, fish, and other animal populations.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:28:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 0)

Yup, they've got these problems with the river system and delta here in northern CA. I did some volunteer work with a local environmental group in Stockton, CA 13 years ago (a bullshit org. called DeltaKeeper). Complete waste of time. Too bad. Problems are real but the guy heading the operation was a total asshole.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:34:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 5)

From the same Wikipedia page:

Dead zone (ecology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gulf of Mexico
Currently the most notorious dead zone is a 22,126 square kilometre (8,543 mi²) region in the Gulf of Mexico, where the Mississippi River dumps high-nutrient runoff from its vast drainage basin, which includes the heart of U.S. agribusiness, the Midwest, affecting important shrimp fishing grounds. This is equivalent to a dead zone the size of New Jersey

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

thankyou

signed,

yer environment,

mama

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 03:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 4)

One reason why I stick to organic food is because I know it won't have certain additives that are routinely added to non-organic stuff, especially meat. Lactose being one of those additives that makes me extremely ill.

There's also the issue of trying to buy local food to support farming in my area, but this isn't necessarily organic. Fruit and veg I tend to buy a mix of organic and non-organic depending on how I use the food simply because I can't afford to only buy organic food.

But what I'm really getting at is the trend around people who will buy organic while it is the done thing and popular, but will cut organic food out first when it comes to having to cut costs. There are other things I buy/do that I would choose to cut down on before I'd resort to cutting out organic food.

So I'm wondering how entrenched that organic buying is elsewhere in Europe because British trends seem to suggest that a significant enough proportion of people buying organic food do so for superficial reasons, hence it gets the chop quickly when the pennies are scarce.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:15:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 0)

Lactose as an additive? In what?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:19:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

In almost everything processed. Often in meat. Cheap food, wine, lager. I've written diaries on the subject.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:25:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

OK, direct me. What is the data on WHY they add lactose to these things? I'm not saying they don't; I'm just under-informed.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:28:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

Do we know what we are eating?

Eating Abroad

It is added as a preservative, sweetener, to increase alcohol content of lager, a filler for medicine tablets/capsules blah blah.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:37:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 0)

Will have to do my homework at a later date.

Your situation. I'm not an expert but I've heard the old wife's tale that some lactose intolerance can be overcome, lactase being an inducible enzyme system. What's your situation, if I'm not being too personal?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:44:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

I lack the gene that produces lactase, so I have always been and always will be completely lactose intolerant.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:52:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

Maybe the solution for you is lactase as a food additive...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:55:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 0)

It isn't effective enough.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:06:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 0)

I was just joking...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:09:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 0)

I realised after I posted that I'd misread.
< belated laugh...>

You can get lactase tablets (which I'd thought the reference was to) that are meant to be eaten when you have dairy and apparently it magically breaks all the lactose down. But people use it as an excuse to overindulge on creamy, buttery dairy packed stuff and wonder why it hasn't worked.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:14:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Magically? (none / 1)

You of all people should know better, you're a chemist!

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:18:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

Why you sneaky dude! Yeah, you know why I'm saying that.

Don't pay attention to that man behind the curtain!

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:25:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

Bummer.

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 05:56:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lifelong Organic Consumer (4.00 / 9)

Since i was a founding member of the High Falls Food Coop back in hippy days, a sustenance gardener some of the time before becoming a city boy, and a compulsive shopper at Rainbow Grocery Coop and other local outlets in Frisco, i've always believed that organic food was almost better than having health care.

obviously, organics have messed with my mind to believe that. ;-) (Or maybe other substances messed with my mind, thankfully.)

Here in Germany, i always buy organic or local produce with very little chemical additive to both the food or the farming. i never once thought about how expensive it was, simply knowing i had to do it for my own well-being. i love being able to walk a hundred meters out my door to a farmer's market, including free-range poultry, wild deer meat, some buffalo once in a while.

Such organic consumption has an obvious effect, for i'm rarely sick, exceptionally healthy for a several hundred year old man who drinks copious quantities of alcoholic holy water. i'm glad to have spent the extra dough, and sad that it's so tight for the Brits who are turning away from organics.

Isn't it so that what's absolutely essential for the survival of the planet's skin also tastes so much better, and even has vitamins? I'm pleased that in Germany organics are a part of almost all the chains.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:44:22 AM EST

Re: Lifelong Organic Consumer (none / 1)

... exceptionally healthy for a several hundred year old man...

Is it just me or does this phrase sound ... strange?

Welcome to ET, Paul Krugman

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:50:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lifelong Organic Consumer (4.00 / 4)

Yes, and thinking all the money you can save by not needing nutritional supplements as vitamins and minerals.

I also buy organic when ever possible and am lucky that the supermarkets sell organic as well as local. I like that they also put the adress of the farmer on display.

I really would rather restrict on many other things, than the quality of food. Because I do believe that nurtrition is the foundation of our health and we should not be surprised if the body starts rebelling with health problems if we put stuff into it, that is either to difficult for it to metabolise or in such excess amounts, that the excretion organs can not get rid of it anymore.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 07:06:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Complete agreement. (4.00 / 3)

I do a 500 mg Vitamin C about every other day or so and a standard aspirin at about the same rate. I'm doing fairly well for 63 years old, and it's not all genetic.

Besides, if you have any tendency to 'live to eat', then you probably know about flavor. Anybody want to compare homegrown, or the better organic, foods to the petroleum-derived artificial-flavored cardboard that comes from Kraft?

Almost anything that I ate in France was worth the premium that I paid over the 'comparable' U.S. product.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 01:26:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete agreement. (4.00 / 2)

Almost anything that I ate in France was worth the premium that I paid over the 'comparable' U.S. product.

Wait until you've visited Lyon...;-)

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 09:59:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How about next May? (none / 0)

We had a terrific mid-day meal in Beaune (400 U$D for 4 adults and 2 children, so it better be terrific).

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 11:57:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How about next May? (none / 0)

I would be delighted if you could come to Lyon in May. I took a great pleasure in our meeting in Paris with linca, but it was too short!

You will be welcome anytime. I can host you in Lyon. Just let me know sufficiently in advance.

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 12:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Complete agreement. (none / 0)

Price premium? With the dollar down for restaurants sure, but for store bought good food, not really, even now. On the other hand, if you live in the right place in the US, finding great food isn't hard if you're willing and able to find the price. And with that time to go off to the greenmarket.

by MarekNYC on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 11:47:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You live in NYC? (none / 1)

My price comparison is Pacific NW, which is probably 2/3 of your prices.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 11:59:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You live in NYC? (none / 1)

Unless you go to Hunts Point Market, in which case the price is a tiny fraction of that. I only did that once: it requires a car, a fair amount of time, and organizing a group of people to share the food that you buy.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 12:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You live in NYC? (none / 0)

I don't know about the northwest, but I was rather surprised to find that the Bay Area had higher prices for food (store bought) than NYC. Of course that just might be a function of my friends not having figured out where to go.

by MarekNYC on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 01:19:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You live in NYC? (none / 0)

Just as an example, I buy pasture raised, grass fed organic milk for $3 per half gallon. Good local butter for $4/lb (though it's not nicely packaged - you buy it by weight), great prime aged steak at $8/lb for sirloin, $13 for shell or ribeye at an old italian butchers in the Village. You want good reasonably priced fresh fish, go to Chinatown or some of the greenmarkets. My local greenmarket also has very nicely priced good veal.

I'm food obsessed with a limited budget so I've put a fair amount of effort into figuring out where to buy.

by MarekNYC on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 01:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're doing well for NYC. (none / 0)

Yes, the Bay area is more expensive than the NW.

Out of your way a bit, but I have a second cousin in southern NJ who is a full-scale organic farmer. You might be interested anyway - google "Neptune Farm". Their web-site has been "under construction" for months, but there are articles about the farm, including one about a series of wind turbine tests there.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sun Aug 31st, 2008 at 11:30:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 6)

Waitrose prices -

Generic muesli: £1.80
Organic muesli: £3.99

Yes, people will be switching from organics because they can't afford them. How many people can spend £4 on a box of cereal?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 06:57:02 AM EST

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 5)

Well, then make your own müesli from whole grains, by soaking them. You have to chew a little more, but that only improves the digestion.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 07:08:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 2)

Nice thought but the people who are purely jumping on a bandwagon where it is convenient are not likely to consider making their own cereal as an option - they will go the easiest way possible for them, buy cheaper cereal and who cares if it is organic or not?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 08:19:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 6)

It's possible to afford a lot of organic food if you cut down on processed stuff, e.g. just buy bread, staples, vegetables, dairy products and fruit. But yes, a lot of organic food would have to come down in price in order to remain attractive. Maybe a temporary drop in the market is not that bad. I don't imagine that organic food businesses have been that mindful of price after the boom they have been through.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 07:14:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 4)

i think it amusing to reflect on how peak oil will probably acquaint many people with the joys of organic farming.

it'll lose its twee aspect, fo' sho...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 03:28:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 3)

How much of the organic price is cashing in on the trend though? Will a drop in sales (as nanne suggests) bring about a drop to more realistic prices for organic food?

the article points to how the most common organic foods are also seeing a drop in sales, including eggs - stuff like £4 cereal can hardly be surprised to be seeing a drop in sales.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 08:17:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 4)

The problem is, a lot of people seem to be in real financial difficulty. I guess not having a mortgage means I'm not seeing it so far, but if you have less money you don't have a lot of choice, you have to spend less. And a lot of things are hard to change immediately, so the ones that can (like choice of food) tend to be the ones that change.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 08:32:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

Good points. My food bills have soared but I don't have a mortgage to worry about either, nor do I have gas bills so I have been able to absorb the extra costs so far.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 09:05:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 4)

I think prices have risen significantly. I remember £2.50 to £3 for organic cereal - £4 seems new to me. But I don't buy a lot of muesli, so I may not have been paying attention.

I don't think £4 is sustainable, even for the Waitrose market.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 08:58:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

True; however, all food prices have risen over the last year or so.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:27:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

I think this may be a Waitrose special.

Morrisons are selling Jordan's organic muesli for £2.50-ish, which is much closer to the price I remembered.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 07:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 6)

Organic food has a firm place in the Danish food supply - thought to judge by the range of products on offer in my local shops, it's limited to dairy products, eggs and the very occasional chicken and piece of pork.

My dad (who buys organic food almost religiously) has a theory on why sales are dropping: He thinks it has to do with the fact that organic food is increasingly just as bland as non-organic. For a while, before the factory farms started jumping on the organic bandwagon, organic food was simply higher quality, quite irrespective of the environmental concerns. And people pay for higher quality.

But the big food producers misinterpreted the willingness to pay as a willingness to pay for organic food rather than quality food and started mass-producing the same old crap, but now without pesticides. Which is a definite improvement environment-wise... but not so much in terms of the quality of the end product.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:04:29 PM EST

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 2)

Yup. I'm one of those who has been buying organic for a long time, but for taste. For certain products the high end non-organic is actually better, at least than what's available to me, e.g. dry aged prime beef. In other cases, like milk, my local stores only carry the ultra-pasteurized crap in the organic version, and that's sort of defeating the purpose - why pay twice the price for much worse taste.

by MarekNYC on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know what you mean, but (none / 1)

my experience says that it's more about the aging process than about the 'mottling'. You may know that I live in a rural setting. I buy organic beef from a couple of wonderful 'old-folks' (rock-ribbed Christian conservatives of the type that are so far right that they're almost left). I can go see the steers and cows grazing the manure-fed grass at any time. They may get a little grain in the Winter, but not by force-feeding. In fact the fat content is lower than you might think optimal for taste. But the beef tastes like the beef that I had in Texas as a young'un and college student. I may not be able to convince you that that was the real deal back then, but it was the baseline for me; and I've never had a steak since - be it ever so expensive - that beat the common product back then.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 01:40:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 2)

Well, here the organic focus is very much on vegetables and fruits. But especially organic tomatoes can be just as bland as the others. So your dad has a point there.

I was also wondering, were does all this organic food come from? and have been asking myself also if it really is all as organic as we think.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:12:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 3)

Because the tasteless tomato is a cultivar that was developed by traditional methods for the purpose of storing and transporting well and having a thick skin that won't tear as easily as that of a tasty tomato. Blandness has nothing to do with growing practices in that case.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:24:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 2)

Yeah, tomatoes with taste don't travel. You either eat the great local ones in season, or the ok horrendously expensive local greenhouse ones the rest of the year. Quick tip - for most cooking purposes good canned tomatoes are fine, better in fact than anything but good fresh in season ones. The Italian San Marzano ones are the best, and they're not that expensive (about $3 for a 28oz can here in NYC)

by MarekNYC on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 2)

I buy more canned peeled tomatoes and crushed/diced tomatoes than Barbara thinks our pantry can cope with...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 02:48:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 2)

What's a pantry? (as he glances down from his desk at the cans of tomatoes on the bedroom floor, next to the mandoline and pasta thingy, and wine)

by MarekNYC on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 02:56:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 2)

I exaggerate slightly - I'm talking about the low cabinet next to the sink, full of pasta, pulses, canned tomato, canned tuna...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 03:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (none / 1)

i heard italy exports 60% of its organic produce.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 03:33:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Losing taste for organic food? (4.00 / 5)

The French are probably a bit more into authentic food than the British (by and large), yet I've heard reports that consumption of fresh fruit and veg is going down, irrespective of whether organic or not. Prices have risen considerably.

At the same time, I can't say that local interest in organic (or near-organic high-quality) food is dropping, since the association I help run attracts new members all the time, interested in buying vegetables, fruit, meat, etc from local producers. The newcomers are mostly young couples, (25-35), some retired people, occasionally people between the two. In the main, I'd say there's unsatisfied demand for produce of this kind. It's true we can (via numbers and duration of commitment to buy) keep prices reasonable.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 29th, 2008 at 12:59:56 PM EST

In Portland, OR the Food Front Co-op (none / 1)

has been thriving for about 30 years. Every so often, a 'branch' co-op will emerge, but they don't seem to survive. There's another start-up going now - hope it makes it.

Out here, though, we have very healthy Farmers' Markets, so co-ops have to concentrate on something besides fresh produce. The Food Front seems to do well on wine, organic deli, spices, as well as the standard groceries (organic by somebody's definition).

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sat Aug 30th, 2008 at 01:49:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Losing taste for organic food? | 67 comments (61 topical, 6 editorial, 0 hidden)

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