Eating Abroad

by In Wales
Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:31:23 AM EST

Food intolerance special edition!

Next week I embark on my Prague-Germany-France adventure. I intend to admire architecture, museums, art, take many photos, be irritated by tourists and attempt to navigate my way through a strange world of unfamiliar food and languages.


I'm travelling on a budget and so far with my planning and booking of accommodation and travel for the full two weeks, I have kept costs down.  Of course, I've blown it by buying a new camera lens specifically for the trip (but I have been desperate for an excuse to buy it for nearly a year).

The thing that is likely to blow my spending budget is food (and drink, while Helen is around...)

While I am at home it is easy to keep lactose and wheat out of my diet, so long as I prepare all food myself and buy goods that I have discovered to be safe through a lengthy process of trial and error.  

Cheap fast food, processed food, ready meals, and too cheap to be true pub and restaurant meals are out because I can't trust them to be safe.  Restaurants where they don't cook from scratch or can't be entirely sure what is actually in their food, I have learned to avoid.  If I need to pop out for lunch or to grab a snack there are very few places that I can go. But I'm on familiar territory, I know the language, I know the food, the customs, the culture.

I've never been to Prague or Germany before and France has caused grief when I've been travelling simply because it seems that the only snacks I can get hold of, or the most common foods for breakfast and lunch are loaded with wheat and lactose.  Wheat I can cope with in small amounts and I usually let myself off on that front when I travel but lactose, milk, butter, cheese - makes me extremely ill. I can't take any chances.

So how do I go about travelling safely in a strange country with a language I don't speak, and foods I am not familiar with?

I have downloaded my super duper Dietary Card in 4 other languages - I have picked French, Italian, German and Czech.  There are other sites where custom cards can be ordered too whcih list the allergies or intolerances to show waiters/waitresses when ordering food. Reduces communication confusion. I think it is a marvellous idea.  That will certainly help in restaurants.

But really what will help is a bit of research.  What are the most common dishes and foods eaten in these countries? Specifically the ones that are very unlikely to have dairy in.  What type of shops or cafes should I try to be able to get food at the cheaper end that is still safe to eat?  Is fruit easily available?

When I travelled through North Africa and Thailand, food was easy and also cheap. I took a risk on a little biscuit in Morocco and was sick in the souqs 20 minutes later, lost in the middle of people bustling about in the heat, the stink of goats and other bony mammals surrounding me.  That kind of experience really spoils your day.

I'm also terrible at being hungry.  So I need to eat, but don't want to spend too much.  I have my translation cards to wave at people but some prior knowledge on safe dishes and foods to avoid would be very helpful.

Any tips?

Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password

Display:
Apart from various alcoholic substances I've been ordered to sample, I have also been told to try the ghoulash in Prague.  A recipe search shows this is likely to be dairy free but not fruit dumplings.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:49:39 AM EST
Well, I am also going to look out mainly for vegetables and salads. Don't know how easy this will be.

Maybe you can buy some fresh stuff like bananas and avocados, which are a little heavy and thus can ease the hunger.

Do you ear nuts and raisins, they have plenty of sugar so you get enough calories. In Switzerland you can buy a mixture called 'Studentenfutter' (studend's food) because it is also supposed to be nourishing for the brain, maybe they have it in Prague too.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 07:50:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Websites I have looked at so far suggest that a vegetarian diet is difficult to cater for there, although becoming a bit more common now.

I eat nuts etc and will probably bring a stash of nut bars with me!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 08:45:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you're hanging around with me for any length of time just eat what I do. I really like the the german/czech way of doing meat so I tended to go for large slabs of well cooked meat on the bone and spend a happy half hour scoffing it in its entirety while ignoring anything else that came with it.

sorted.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 06:49:42 AM EST
I'd be surprised if the large cities in Europe did not have a lot of options for the dietarily challenged.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 11:33:25 AM EST
You'd be surprised how difficult it is to get a quick and easy lunch that is safe to eat and doesn't cost a bucketload.  Restaurants can always be found but grabbing lunch on the move is not easy when you don't know the area/country.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 11:58:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hm.  Well, perhaps you are best off carrying your food with you and only eating at restaurants once or twice a day, a planned meal, and someplace you can take some time deciding upon, since you won't be dying of hunger because you've been able to snack beforehand.  

In every large city I've been in, there have been street markets and grocery stores - even in Eastern Europe - where you can easily get fresh fruit & veggies.  If these exist in Chicago, Paris and Moscow, I'm incredulous that they don't in Prague, etc.  

Things like fruits, nuts, power bars, vitamins, are small and can easily be carried with you.  Since you don't eat dairy or bread, I don't know what you normally eat to feel full, but if possible, bring something like that along with you.  Maybe Also try to concentrate on breakfast, which will keep you full and energized through the day, and dinner, which you probably want to sit down and enjoy, and not worry about "getting lunch on the go."  Just carry snacks with you.  And something for your stomach should you get an unfortunate surprise.  

I don't think German and Czech cuisine are radically different from each other, or even radically different that the cuisine of other parts of central Europe, comparatively speaking.  Pretty meat n' vegetables heavy.  Though, again, the cities probably offer everything from sushi to felafel.

You'll be ok, I think.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They do. The difficult part is finding them. In three foreign language zones.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm curious about what causes food intolerance, that is, lactose intolerance & gluten intolerance.  Does anyone know?  There is no treatment?  You just have to live with it your whole life?

I've had a vague generalized food intolerance my whole life.  I think I just have a sensitive stomach.  I've had ulcers my whole life.  I have a stomach ache more often than not, but I've just learned to live with it.  Some things I cannot eat even if it were all that was left on earth, like Indian food.  It tastes good, I know.  But I think it would keep me from ever traveling in India.  I have a marked shellfish allergy.  Living in the Midwest, it's not a big problem.  But when I'm anywhere where shellfish is prevalent, ...  I plan around it.  I can only eat a little, and when I do, I have to figure in sick time that day.   lol.  Because it is really delicious, fresh, "caught that day" seafood.  Sadly, my biology does not recognize it as food.  It thinks it is Sigourney Weaver in Alien or something.  I was vegetarian for a time, and then I went to eating only fish and chicken, no red meat.  To this day I don't handle red meat well.  But lately I've been eating steak in small portions, and have not been any sicker than I normally am after eating.

I do regular "fasts."  I don't actually stop eating, but cut out everything possibly bad for me -alcohol, cigarettes, chocolate, sugar, fried and processed foods (not that I eat them often anyway), heavy, rich foods, etc.  Give my body a chance to repair itself before I start abusing it again.

Assuming I never have to go to India, my attitude toward food and travel is, eat what I want.  It's controversial, because I'm bound to be ill and inconvenience people, and it also means I never make myself eat something I find repulsive.  But I'd rather sample local cuisine - there is a strong connection between culture and cuisine- and puke.  And I always travel with things like an apple, trail mix, protein bars.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 11:34:38 AM EST
The last time I accidentally had something with butter in it I was horribly sick 30 minutes later and spent the whole night unable to sleep with excruciating stomach ache. I still felt ill 2 days later. It isn't worth it at all.  I never knowingly let myself consume anything containing lactose and I am prepared to be a pain in the arse to ensure that when I order food, it is safe to eat.

I like to be well and there is nothing worse than getting ill when travelling, especially when there is so much to see and do.  I don't see cutting out 'nice' things in my diet as depriving myself but rather safeguarding my health and getting more out of life as a result.

When I was younger and didn't know what caused the problem I also learned to live with it and got used to that baseline of never quite feeling well and always having stomach ache and headaches and being tired. But now I know what it is like to feel properly well and healthy, I like to stay that way. My choice.

my lactose intolerance arise because I do not make any of the enzyme that breaks down lactose (and never have) and when it is in my system it has long term systemic effects and I've seen this contribute to early deaths and chronic illnesses of a number of family members. It won't happen to me.  

As it happens, more adults are intolerant to lactose to some extent, than are tolerant to it but it is largely ignored or written off as IBS.  Wheat I have a greater tolerance to and will eat if I don't have much other choice and the worst effect is bloating and lethargy which is tolerable. I just feel more comfortable and clear headed without.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 11:52:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not simply most adults who are lactose intolerant, but the vast majority (I think around 70-80%) of them. Since the main exception are people of European origin, lactose intolerance tends to be regarded as an abnormality rather than as the norm.

I didn't know that lactose intolerance could have such serious long-term effects. Are you sure that you don't have milk allergy, a rather different condition?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope definitely not a milk allergy, I was tested for that. No reaction whatsoever. I can eat stuff with milk protein in no problem.

The symptom list for lactose includes:
nosebleeds
headaches/migraines
joint and muscle pain
spasms
palpitations
IBS type symptoms - bloating, nausea, diarrhea
lethargy
poor immune system

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those are a lot like the symptoms for gluten intolerance. I'm not lactose intolerant, but gluten--yikes.
by Mnemosyne on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 08:46:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's something I'm curious about.

Is lactose intolerance primarily an allergy to cow's milk ? As melo points out, we're not supposed to drink that at all. Or is it an allergy to all milks such as, say, goats milk which is supposedly okay for humans.

That said, I'm okay. I can eat more or less anything. Anything I avoid is by preference or disgust (especially oysters)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:49:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're not "supposed" to brew beer either.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shocked into silence.... ;-)

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Only if the licencing authorities catch you. And technically it's the yeast wot done it anyway.

And yes, we're all slightly intolerant of alcohol. Being sick from drinking too much as a youngster is because the stomach doesn't want that much alcohol in it at once, stopping being sick is a "learned" reaction.

But drinking booze is pretty much elective these days.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've heard of people being old to stop breastfeeding and put their kids on special formula because the kids were lactose intolerant. Don't know what that is about ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"being told"
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a good question about cow's milk.  A person can't be intolerant (which I understand now means "lacking the enzyme required to break it down") to all milk, since most humans survive off human milk for the first months of their lives.  Is there no lactose in breast milk?  And how did we come to be drinking cow's milk?  


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dogs can handle cow's milk when they're puppies, but after that most just vomit it back up - Figgy will drink low-fat milk, Cleo won't touch it. If Figgy accidentially drinks full-fat he makes a mess.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:11:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My cat drinks cow's milk (skim, in tiny amounts).  Doesn't seem to be a problem.  Unless I refuse it to her.  Then there's a problem.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hmm, a visitor left a litre of milk in my fridge, so rather than throw it away, i poured it over my dogs' food.

one did fine, but the other was sick for a week.

lost appetite, moped around, no energy.

gave her some kidney tincture, encouraged her to drink more water, and with extra affection and massage, she came around fine, as per.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have always been intolerant, I projectile vomited all forms of milk given to me as a baby - breast milk, formular, cows milk etc. It almost killed me.  It was only when I started on pureeed food that I was ok.

I have a genetic defect that prevents the enzyme being made, ever.  Most people make lactase that breaks down lactose when they are babies and this eases off as they grow older - hence why adults are more likely to be lactose intolerant.  As pointed out elsewhere, we aren't 'supposed' to have milk in our diets once weaned off breastfeeding therefore no need to keep making the enzyme.

How did we come to be eating or drinking anything that we do?!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:44:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lactose tolerance in adults is a rather recent genetic mutation. Evolution in action !

My guess is that some herdsmen discovered they could give raw milk without making cheese out of it to toddlers, and stopped giving it as the kids developed intolerance - until at a point the kids didn't develop intolerance, and gained an evolutionary advantage.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 04:12:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Evolution in action !

Funnier yet: most probably co-evolution.

So, in societies where milk was really the only thing available during some periods, being lactose intolerant was strongly selected against (like: you might die).

"Nullius in Verba"

by tiagoantao (put_my_login_here <> gmail com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 11:56:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Most babies have no problem with lactose. It's something most people develop later, and seems to due to be some combination of genetics and environment. I presume that lactose intolerent people can't handle goat milk either (but maybe the amount of lactose is different?). The same probably also applies to giraffe milk, despite the recent decision that it is kosher.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good grief!  If cow's milk is meant to speed up the growing process for cows, what is giraffe milk capable of?!  


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:12:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It isn't an allergy. The lactose cannot be broken down without the enzyme therefore it cannot be digested properly and so it loiters and causes grief, most commonly in the form of bloating, gassiness etc but more severe than that in some people.

It is the lactose in the milk that is specific to the problem and lactose is present in all mammal milk including goat etc.  The reason goats milk is thought to be ok for some people who can't have cow's milk is because these people are allergic to cows milk protein, which is not present in goats milk.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe there is something to the phrase "cheese-eating surrender monkeys" after all.  Maybe the French are not wimpy, they all just have a bellyache from too much bread and cheese.  Probably why they have national healthcare.  Entire country doesn't feel too good.  Epidemic.  If you really think about it, look at the kind of culture a diet with staples of lactose and grain engenders.  People cannot work more than 30 hours a week.  They need "siestas" in the middle of their day to lie down for a bit.  Always having to lie down, these people.  They drink a lot of wine, probably to numb the pain of a poor diet.  I bet gathering in parks and plazas is some left-over tradition from the middle ages where they quarantined everyone who had a belly ache, convinced they were possessed by the devil.  They do lots of painting, poetry-writing, philosophising, and other things to pass the time while in bed with a tummy ache.  Ack! They're a miserable lot!  Someone should tell them to stop eating bread and cheese.  Then they'd be happy and full of life, finally!

(If milk or bread gives you a bellyache, I don't think you should drink it.  I don't want anyone here feeling sick.  I'm a nice person.  I just like making fun of making fun of the French!)


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why are you picking on the French? This would also apply to the Greeks, who eat more cheese, per capita, than the French...
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was making fun of people who pick on the French.  But yes, the Greeks too.  And Swiss, Italians, all those cheese-eating Europeans.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In Finland, gluten or lactose content has to be marked on all food, including pre-packed sandwiches. You can find this info on most restaurant menus also. However, that doesn't mean a good choice of gluten/lactose-free alternatives.

Most supermarkets DO have a good range of stuff in special shelf sections.

I presume all this reflects the high rate of such allergies in the Finnish population.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:39:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Supermarkets here also have a good range of 'free-from' foods but it varies in terms of whether things are labelled or not. Lactose often not although gluten and wheat are.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 12:57:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lactose intolerance has a very high incidence in Finland. Apparently that is quite common in formerly (and recently) hunter-gatherer boreal societies.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think there is a law regarding labelling (though I'm sure it is being lobbies for) but most grocery stores in the States have special sections for lactose and gluten-free food.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:31:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I'm finding in the States is that, while the number of food packages labeled "gluten-free" increases, my confidence in their accuracy decreases.

I suspect that the food manufacturers say, "OK, if we make it without wheat then it's gluten-free." Which is not the case. I've seen things so labeled that contained oats and/or barley, which are every bit as dangerous as wheat.

And it's astonishing how many people don't make the connection between flour in a food item and the fact that it's made of wheat. The good side is that restaurants chefs and servers almost always are helpful, understanding and will go out of their way to prepare something in an uncontaminated pan.

by Mnemosyne on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 08:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was younger and didn't know what caused the problem I also learned to live with it and got used to that baseline of never quite feeling well and always having stomach ache and headaches and being tired.

isn't it wonderful to find you don't have to live like that any more?

waking up in hospital with plastic tubes meeting above my eyes, trying to concentrate in school with cluster headaches, stomach feeling like it was breaking rocks...

raised three kids their first years vegetarian, they got to keep their appendixes, tonsils, adenoids.

the fat molecules in dairy are built to support a calf's rapid growth, not a human's gradual one, ergo lymph solidification, bloating.

the fact that it's better for the planet too makes it a no-brainer...

i feel so bad for all the kids with lactose intolerance that will have to wait till they are 18 or so to know what 'well-being' really is, as i did.

so, well done for speaking up, in wales, and for having the discipline to take good care of yourself. good luck while travelling!

i'd carry some miso with you, for the morning after, if you have to go a bit off your usual diet. a tsp in some hot water can turn things round again better than anything else i know.

hard to pull off on the road, but here's melo's surefire cure for what ails ya

a cup of freshly boiled water
1 tsp barley or rice miso
1 small leaf dried wakame sea vegetable, or a good pinch of kelp powder
1 tsp brewers' yeast
1 tsp minced parsley
1 tsp lemon juice
2-3 drops umeboshi vinegar
2 drops tabasco
2 tbs cooked brown rice

drink deep, and be weller!

 for travelling, i usually get individual sachets of dried miso, which do the trick.

for you who get occasional stress headaches, i recommend picking up some CEPHYL aspirin, available unfortunately only in france and switzerland, afaik. they really are amazing.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:00:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Melo, I must confess to being one of those awful omnivores. But only slow food and quite Montignacist (low GI). I avoid anything with e-numbers (apart from a very occasional icecream), No synthetics, including most medicines. No antibiotics either unless doctor says I will die otherwise.

Any interesting products of Mother Nature are welcomed - being one myself.

I am a sinner, but one with 5000 years of testing to back me up ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 02:52:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
hey sven, moves into food bore blogmode,

i'd love to be an omnivore, and i'd even more love not to be misunderstood when i talk about diet!

being an omnivore is a sign of great health, that's what we're set up to be.

diet is also a palliative, once one finds out one's imbalances and which foods heal them.

in my case diet is a wonderful release from a suffering past, so i know i'm luckier than if i had remained ignorant about the subject, but i'd be even luckier still, were i so healthy as to be able to return to omniverousness.

it's horrible having limits that most others can't relate to, but i make lemonade, and have fun doing it.

anything's better than going back to hell, as in wales so aptly describes the grungy feeling of trying to live on what doesn't agree with you.

my diet is a stretched out band-aid over a difficult series of ptsd memories, and lord love us, it works!

everybody's mileage will vary according to the individual biology, psychological architecture and environment.

deep down i have a hunch one day i will find another healing that might restore me to the sovereign state of omnivority, lol.

or to living on the prana in air maybe... this is not so far fetched, as already i am amazed how little quantity my body needs compared to before i understood which were 'superfoods', so high in curative and nutritive values that quality could easily replace much quantity.

food is fascinating...the roots of our choices go so very deep, changing radically was neither an easy nor attractive option, until i learned to make it so, silk purse from sow's ear, if you will.

i love it when people are healthy and happy with how they eat. this, however, is not very common, and on the good side, people are becoming ever more open to new choices, which i find a pleasure to encourage, hoping always that there may be a similarly profound change in one's ability to better self-regulate one's own health, that i had.

for example, my partner has had an 80% reduction in pollen allergy, since becoming vegetarian. she could probably knock out the last 20% if she liked saunas more.

 :)

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sauna - oh yes. I've been working on revising the marketing strategy of a large Finnish manufacturer of stoves, steam and cabins etc for export - and in the process learned a great deal about the health benefits.

The benefits exist only with sufficient heat (<65 C), and the vapourization of water on the stones to increase humidity rapidly. Steam baths and saunas both use steam for healing, but in the sauna the steam is invisible. The temperature is needed to get deep into the muscles, and to stimulate surface blood vessels which then clear the skin of crap.

I usually go for about 80 C, but spray some water around on the walls and benches before I sit down, so the heat is not so dry and the sweat starts straight away. I often put birch oil in the water for added aromatherapy ;-)

Saunas are also intended to be quite dark.

Most people outside of Finland do not know how to use the sauna or 'soorna', as they call it. Harrumph. I heard all the horror tales abut 40 C hotel saunas with a notice saying do NOT throw water on the stones!

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do you Finns do the thing where you beat one another with birch twigs?  There are great saunas here, but I miss the flogging.  I just don't see that flying around here.  Assault charges would be brought.  It's a shame.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is nothing like flogging ;-) The young leafy birch branches are tied together, so that the part that contacts the body is only soft leaves. The action is more heavy flicking ie you go to beat yourself on the back but a few centimetres before contact you arrest the motion of your hand so the leaves flick forward. It take a bit of practice.

The 'vihta' is kept in water. Before you flick yourself with it, you place it briefly on the hot stones to create more steam and heat up the leaves.

The possible painful part is that the swish of the vihta creates a waft of very hot air in it's wake. That hot air never reaches you, but it can reach a neighbour. Sauna etiquette thus demands that you take this into account.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 06:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The most common translation of Vihta is 'whisk'. Not a threatening weapon I would have thought.

Neither is nudity threatening. As I said the sauna should be dim. Running to the lake is a different matter. Rarely are saunas unisex, except in families. But often men and women in a group take turns in the sauna, and relax outside when it is not their turn. This means the trip to the lake is visible to the relaxers. Men tend to run naked to the lake. Women tend to take a towel which they discard at the jetty. When men return from the cold lake after a swim, there's very little to see ;-)

It's all done in the very best of taste ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 06:45:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've obviously never been thwacked in a banya by a Russian babushka! ;)

No, I love it.  You don't need to educate me on it.  I was just wondering if the Finns did that too.  

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 11:29:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm curious about what causes food intolerance, that is, lactose intolerance & gluten intolerance.  Does anyone know?  There is no treatment?  You just have to live with it your whole life?

I can't keep track of it: there's allergies, intolerances and sensitivities to food. As I understand it, the first is an extreme immune reaction and can kill you or make you very sick. The rest are some combination of your genetic make-up - if you can't metabolise lactose you just can't - how your immune system has been trained from early life - when you were weaned, what foods you were exposed to, whether formula or bottle fed - bad luck - sometimes your immuse sytem just fucks up - and how your gut flora and fauna are configured - if you're not used to eating a class of foods then it may make you ill because your bacteria don't know what to do with it. Oh, and hypochondria and quackery, which discredits the whole area and makes making sense of it almost impossible.

For instance, at the moment, the advice is that babies should be weaned at 17 weeks at the earliest and that they should receive no gluten until they're six months old at least, in order to avoid triggering food allergies in the immature immune system. There's also the issue that breast milk contains all sorts of things that interact with the baby's immune system to help educate it about what is food and should be ignored. Formula fed babies don't get that, so may be at higher risk of the various syndromes above. Twenty years ago the advice was to formula feed and wean them as soon as possible ...

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there was a lot of commercial pressure to sell formula, see nestle etc...

if the mother's tummy is unsettled, her milk can pass this on to baby.

some foods like cabbage fr'example, can digest fine in mom, but still cause all kinds of reactions in baby.

or too many spices, basically too much fermenting, causes gassiness and colic.

sometimes nursing moms have to modify what they eat to accomodate a baby that has very much its own set of better or worse-digested foods.

i bet sam knows this already... generally, simple is good.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 03:27:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Google "gluten intolerance," and the first five hits will tell you more than you ever need to know.

I'm gluten intolerant, and so am delighted to see this discussion. I've been wanting to do something about a trip across the pond, but even more worried about food than In Wales, given that we can no longer bring much of anything useful with us on planes. God knows what the airport squad would say if I showed up with a suitcase full of rice noodles.

Gluten intolerance is, as I understand it, caused my an allergic reaction to a protein that occurs in wheat, oats, barley and rye. Does nasty things to the digestive tract.

Buh-bye to any thoughts of drinking those wonderful European beers. No baguettes, no pasta. And the list goes on.

It's less the prospect of going hungry a bit, but what's really frightening is the possibility of eating something contaminated with wheat and getting sick from it.

If you Poemless personally have food issues, you might try doing elimination diets in sequence. Take all the, say, wheat out of your diet for a couple of weeks, see if you feel better. Then put it back in. If your symptoms recur, that's a clue.

I have lots of references on this stuff, if you want to discuss further. Now, back to reading comments.

by Mnemosyne on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 08:41:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My sister has a variety of food alergies, when she was being tested, they took her onto a diet of potato, Lamb and peas, nothing else, for three days. this they reckon was the least alergic food you can have, then they started adding single foods to the mix one at a time till she fell ill

They reckoned that the lamb/potatos/peas diet was the lowest level of  likelihood alergy meal that you could get and still bre medically ok.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 09:07:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lamb, potatoes and peas are OK, in their place. And quite tasty, but not as a forever-diet. The process of finding out what you can and can't eat is hit-or-miss, and often stomach-upsetting.

I misspoke. Gluten intolerance isn't really an allergy; it's just that some peoples' systems can't handle the whatever-it-is protein. I do reasonably well except, like In Wales, I have to avoid fast-food places and especially places where they might buy some of their food prepared from a larger supplier--such as the soup bases used in Chinese restaurants. Many of those have MSG, by the way, no matter what the restaurant says.

Wheat is such an industrial crop that it's in everything, often disguised as something else. Or included as "natural flavoring" or some other weasel wording. Hydrolized soy protein is another nasty term. The more processed the food, generally the less safe it is.

I've read that gluten intolerance supposedly is more prevalent in people of northwestern European ancestry, which makes for interesting considerations of how much, say, beer is drunk in that part of the world and what some of the chronic health problems are there and here.

I do like your sig line, by the way.

by Mnemosyne on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 09:21:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
she had three months of that, with the odd change thrown in for testing purposes before they came to the conclusion it was something else that she had.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 09:43:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Buh-bye to any thoughts of drinking those wonderful European beers.

Not quite, there are gluten free beers, in fact there's even a gluten free beer festival.

Check this for a list

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Aug 8th, 2008 at 05:48:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It would seem that your seafood allergy is really an intolerance rather than an allergy (yes, there's a difference).  If an allergy, your reactions would be stronger each time you were exposed to it and would not be of the "lose your lunch" variety, but rather of the "breaking out in hives, swelling of the glands in the neck" variety, eventually leading to an anaphylactic reaction.  My brother (the doctor) told me to stay totally away from shellfish (I can have salmon and such, it's only things with shells that are the problem... and it has nothing to do with iodine, as for some people) but I made a crab dish for some family members, which involved boiling the shells for a really long time to make stock, and just the steam from the cooking gave me a reaction.

Some ulcers can be cured with antibiotics, but only your doctor and you could know if yours are that sort.

On the bright side, you must at least be wonderfully svelte!

Karen in Austin

Thence comes our true nobility by grace, It was not willed us with our rank and place. Chaucer

by Wife of Bath (priceluda at grandecom dot net) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 09:40:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Shellfish:  It's an allergy, but not (thus far) enough to send me to the hospital.  I break out wildly in hives, get dizzy, flushed, and everything goes haywire.  But it passes quickly.

Ulcers:  Not the anti-biotic type.  Really, it's under control for the most part.  But in college I was in the hospital for a while.  I kept complaining of stomach aches, and every doctor thought I was either being a hypochondriac or just had heartburn (which I've never had, actually).  They even told me I didn't know where my stomach was, and when I pointed to the area where the pain was, they were like, "Hm.  Well.  That is where you stomach is.  Most people don't know..."  It got to where I could not even stand, and that when I went to the hospital.  So after 6 months of complaining to doctors who told me to take some Tums, they did an upper GI and said, "Your stomach is full of ulcers!  How have you been surviving that pain?"  Omg, did I want to strangle them!  I just love how doctors don't take your complaints seriously and then reprimand you for not taking action sooner.  Idiots.  I didn't test positive for the bug that causes the ulcers that can be cured with anti-biotics.  It's entirely stress-induced; I had a rather insanley traumatic childhood.  I did have to stick to a very strict diet for about 9 months.  Horrible.  No alcohol, chocolate, cheese, nuts, fried food, spicy food, acidic food.  Toast.  I ate mostly toast.  And oatmeal.  And I was on one of those new-fangled pills that is supposed to help your stomach repair itself.  It worked.  I still have a terribly sensitive stomach, but I've not been back in the hospital in pain.  

Svelte:  Eh ...  Sveltish, maybe.  But that's only because I didn't eat for several weeks last year (emotional crisis) and my stomach shrank to the size of a pea.


"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 11:25:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
AAArrrrggghh, I was so upset when I learned my reactions were caused by shellfish, I had to decide if I wanted to live... No more crab salad? No more shrimp po-boys?  What was the point of life?  But then I realized it was probably nature's way of telling me I had eaten my share, which I certainly had.

Vanity helps me to avoid the shellfish, too, besides just the pain of the swollen glands in my neck.  I just hate to look in the mirror and see huge jowls on either side of my face.  

And as to doctors... I mustn't go there.  Thank goodness there's one in the family, or we'd all be dead already.

Karen in Austin

Thence comes our true nobility by grace, It was not willed us with our rank and place. Chaucer

by Wife of Bath (priceluda at grandecom dot net) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 11:32:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The most common dishes in Germany contain potatoes, vegetables and meat. If you are OK with that... but living in a city, more than half the restaurants are foreign food. Mainly Italian, Turkish, Chinese and Indian.

Food labelling is fairly advanced, so if you know what your intolerances are called in German, you should be OK.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 01:38:23 PM EST
I find it much easier getting nice vegetarian food in Germany than in France. More choice and diversity in salads too.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 04:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid have a preference for French salads (which I can also get here, of course).

Maybe it's completely different in the south, but I find that Germans tend to overdo it in the sauce/dressing department.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 05:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes in Southern France, after requesting something vegitarian, had the chef come out with a sieve and sieve the rabbit stew so all the solid lumps of rabbit didn't end up on the plate for the vegitarians.

it's the only country where I've ever had trouble avoiding meat.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Aug 6th, 2008 at 09:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Me too, not just in Southern France. The other day when in France they had 6 salads as main dish on the menu, each of them had meat in it and as a fully integrated part, so you could not just pick the grean or vegetables, which were in the minority anyway.

On the other hand, last year in Southern France I asked in a very nice looking restaurant if they could/would make me a vegetable plate and they did. It turned out to be one of the best I ever had, barbequed vegetables with rosmary potatoes, and herbes de Provences, just heavenly. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 01:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I find French salads very boring, mostly a little green, some tomatoe and then ham, or lard, or salmon or so. Or salad made from pasta.

Where as in Germany, to my experience the main ingredient in a salad is vegetables and greens, sometime with mushrooms. They use a much bigger variety of vegetables to make salads from, than the French.

Many places I know over the border in German have become very creative with vegetarian dishes, so it is nice to go eat there. This is still not the case in France.

Switzerland is usually no problem to eat vegetarian. Vegetarian restaurants are a success here and often it is difficult to get a reservation. Some of the nice regular restaurants now also over menu surprise for vegetarians, really creative and delicious.

For a few years there was also a vegetarian restaurant in the black forest, which was a temple for the gourmets - he offert like 12 course menues, all with out meat. You had to make reservation like 6 months in advance.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 01:25:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have found that in France, eating fresh fruits and vegetables from the wonderful street markets to be a reasonably-priced way to go, and you can always drop in at the Monoprix or other grocery for some staples (like baked beans in a can - you call it a 'tin', right?).  Of course, this assumes you have a way to heat things up.  I also like to get frites anywhere possible, not particularly healthy, but yummy.  And in the prepared foods part of the street market, they have wonderful salads and haricots verte... can you have rice dishes?  

Are you vegetarian?  Do you eat fish?  I have to carry one of those cards you're talking about to ask the waiters if the chef uses sea salt... I'm allergic to shellfish and in my case this means sea salt, too, so that rules out any vegetarian or health-food eateries, since they seem to think sea salt is "the thing."  

If you're not vegetarian, in Germany you can buy cold cuts for a decent price in any grocery, then you could wrap it in lettuce, since you can't have bread.  They also have pretty good Indian and Thai restaurants in a number of places, if you can have coconut milk and get a noodle-free curry dish.  If you can eat eggs, many of the German bed-and-breakfasts have hard-boiled eggs at the breakfast.  But many towns in Germany have wonderful street markets with gorgeous produce, like in France, so fruit salad is still an option for breakfast.  

I hope this helps; food allergies are a pain in the patuttie!  

Karen in Austin

When I was briefly in Prague I had goulash and also ate Italian, so I'm not much help there.  But the goulash my German mother-in-law makes has no dairy in it.  

Thence comes our true nobility by grace, It was not willed us with our rank and place. Chaucer

by Wife of Bath (priceluda at grandecom dot net) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 09:27:11 AM EST
Useful stuff thanks. I think grocery stores are the way to go so long as I can find them!  They are few and far between in most tourist areas.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 7th, 2008 at 03:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]


Display:
Go to: [ European Tribune Homepage : Top of page : Top of comments ]