European Tribune

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 28. September

by Fran
Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 03:55:40 PM EST

On this date in history:

1803 - Birth of Prosper Mérimée, a French dramatist, historian, archaeologist, and short story writer. He is perhaps best known for his novella Carmen.(d. 1870)

More here and here


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EUROPE

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 03:56:38 PM EST
Bloomberg.com: Worldwide

European Union observers monitoring tomorrow's elections in Belarus are doing more than protecting the voters' rights. Their verdict on whether the vote is fair and open may shape relations between the EU and the former Soviet state.

President Alexander Lukashenko has staked future ties with the EU and U.S. on recognition of the parliamentary elections' legitimacy. EU foreign ministers said this month they are ready to re-examine sanctions imposed on Belarus in 2004.

The vote in the country of 10 million that borders three of the EU's members will be the most closely watched in more than a decade as Belarus attempts to balance its historic economic and cultural ties to Russia with overtures to the West. The nation's pipelines carry a fifth of Russia's natural-gas exports to Europe and almost 30 percent of its oil.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(title of the above should read 'Belarus's Lukashenko Stakes Better EU, U.S. Ties on `Fair' Vote')

Belarus' leader pledges fair vote; opponents doubt - International Herald Tribune

A day before Belarus holds elections seen as a test of its commitment to democracy, authoritarian President Alexander Lukashenko assured Saturday that his government was playing by international rules. But opponents said the vote would be far from fair.

Lukashenko has remained in power since 1994 through ballots denounced by Western nations as illegitimate.

The United States and European Union have imposed sanctions against the president and his government for their treatment of critics and intolerance of dissent.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:26:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No mention of the Council of Europe...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:20:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Ship sinks in storm off Bulgaria

A cargo ship, believed to be Ukrainian or Russian, sank in stormy waters off the Black Sea coast of Bulgaria with 10 crew members aboard, authorities say.

The 5,000 tonne Tolstoy, carrying scrap metal, did not send out a distress call, said Nikolai Apostolov, head of the Bulgarian maritime office.

Bulgarian authorities were alerted by a Russian satellite centre, he said.

News agencies report that the ship's crew, believed to be Ukrainian with a Russian captain, are all missing.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Voters head to polls in Austria

Voters in Austria are going to the polls in an early general election that opinion polls suggest could result in a surge from the far right.

The elections were called after a coalition between the Social Democrats and the conservative People's Party fell apart after just 18 months.

Polls hint that has opened the door for the Freedom Party and the Alliance for the Future of Austria to gain strength.

Voters appear disenchanted with the centre left and centre right.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FT.com / World - British PM wins reprieve in credit crisis

As the credit crunch lays low reputations across the world, Gordon Brown, Britain's prime minister, has seized the crisis as an opportunity to try to salvage his own credibility.

Mr Brown started the week facing a potentially mutinous Labour party conference in Manchester, after a series of ministers and MPs called for a leadership contest to oust the unpopular premier.

But by the time he met President George W. Bush at the White House yesterday to discuss the banking turmoil, Mr Brown appeared to have stabilised his position at home and quelled - at least temporarily - the rebellion in his own party.

Although the upheaval casts a long shadow over Britain's financial services sector and the economy as a whole, the worsening situation has given Mr Brown a short-term political lift. Labour rebels kept their heads down at the annual congress in Manchester, sensing a moment of economic emergency was not the time to be seen trying to unseat the prime minister.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:27:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tories need to get real on the economy - Telegraph

The Anglo-Saxon world is enduring not only a systemic banking crisis, but also a fiscal crisis. America's public liabilities are now so huge the nation's entire economic stability is threatened. We're heading that way too.

For years, some of us have banged on about excessive Government borrowing, the ghastly private finance initiative, the UK's £1,000bn public sector pension deficit. These are extremely difficult areas for politicians to tread. And so far, the Tories haven't dared to go there.

But they must. Voters now get it: we are simply spending too much. Ordinarily, restraint is not popular - but these are not ordinary times.

The Tories must pledge to rescue this country's finances not by "cutting waste" or "sharing the proceeds of growth" or any other ridiculous wheeze.

We need to SPEND LESS. It's a simple as that. And a leader with the guts to stand up and say so would - at a stroke - win the country's utmost respect.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh, so the solution can never be to stop being a tax haven for the rich.
It needs to be cutting some social programs so those Russian billionaires can continue to be non-doms...

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shorter: we need pro-cyclical fiscal policy to make the recession even deeper

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now we have managed to confirm that Ruth Kelly stepped down because she was disenchanted with the leadership I think a pattern is emerging. Nobody believes in Grodon Brown, this much is plain. He has no credibility with anybody, inside or outside the Cabinet. But, as I've said dozens of times, there simply isn't a credible alternative, the parliamentary party has been deliberately starved of diversity in search of Stepford-Blairism. And they are now reaping the whirlwind such dull conformity has brought them to.

Brown is safe only because there are no others, not because anybody thinks he's any good.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 05:19:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The WSJ has a breaking alert that Bradford & Bingley, the UK mortgage lender, is to be nationalised.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
B & B to be B & B'd

The BBC's Robert Peston, who appears to have a direct line to Brown or Darling, reports


The nationalisation, which could be announced tomorrow night or first thing Monday morning, underlines the scale of the global banking crisis.

However the Treasury will almost instantaneously sell to a bank - or even a number of banks - Bradford & Bingley's 200 branches and its savings business.

So B&B savers, who had more than £20bn deposited in the bank just a few weeks ago, will find themselves customers of another bank.

The Treasury and the Financial Services Authority will spend tomorrow negotiating with banks interested in buying these parts of B&B. These possible buyers included Santander of Spain, HSBC and Barclays.

By contrast, B&B's £50bn of loans - including £41bn of residential mortgages - will not be sold and will be nationalised on a long term basis.

So Bradford and Bingley will essentially be "Bed & Breakfasted."

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 06:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Presumably B&B were either about to, or had already defaulted on a BoA loan.

If Jerome is right and banks are only borrowing from central lenders of last resort, the entire system is already close to being (inter)nationalised by default.

Formal nationalisation of almost anything which moves money around would help stop the rot and buy some time for a more permanent internationally negotiated solution.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 06:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Santander keeps cropping up in all these stories as a possible buyer - yesterday they were mentioned as a possibe buyer for Wachovia...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:18:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Santander and BBVA ahve real money.. so they ahve become the private buyers of last resort... unless they ask mroe oney than the banks really have..

it is good to see our banks there together with the central banks as the last only hope :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:05:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
£50bn of loans vs £20bn of deposits doesn't sound like excessive lending - the problem must lie elsewhere...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:19:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fortis is about to go down too:

BELGIUM's Fortis is this weekend poised to become the first large continental bank to fall victim to the credit crunch, as the global chaos continues with Bradford & Bingley and American savings giant Wachovia both teetering on the brink.

The Belgian central bank and the country's regulator are paving the way for a bailout of the huge banking and insurance group, which has a £540 billion balance sheet and a market value of £12 billion.

by ClaudeB on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 09:44:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would so like to be a minister of finance right now. I mean, doing all those things you aren't supposed to do, like nationalizing banks, naughty! ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:23:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
WORLD

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 03:56:50 PM EST
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Syrian car bomb attack kills 17

At least 17 people have been killed by a car bomb on the outskirts of Syria's capital Damascus, officials have said.

The bombing happened near a police station at an intersection leading to an important Shia Muslim shrine.

Such attacks are rare in Syria, but the country has seen two major assassinations in the past year.

No group has claimed responsibility for the blast, although the Syrian interior minister, Gen Bassam Abdul-Majid, called it a cowardly "terrorist act".



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Africa | Pirates 'want $35m for tank ship'

Pirates who seized a Ukrainian ship off the coast of Somalia have reportedly demanded a ransom of $35m (£19m) to release the vessel and its crew.

The pirates also warned against any attempt to rescue the crew or cargo of the MV Faina, which is carrying 33 T-72 battle tanks destined for Kenya.

But the Kenyan government later denied it had been issued with ransom demands.

A Russian Navy vessel is heading to the region and the US has said it is also monitoring developments in the area.

Ethiopia's Prime Minister, Meles Zenawi, said he was concerned by the seizure of the military supplies on board the Ukrainian ship.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Given the political situation/lack thereof in Somalia, I'd figure that 33 T-72 tanks would have more use at home than anything else.
by Zwackus on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 11:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How do faction leaders say AAARRGGGG! in Somali?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 11:36:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The ship doesn't come from Somalia but probably from Ukraine or Russia.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:30:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Given the political/economic situation in Somalia, bringing T-72 tanks from ship to land is impossible...

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:02:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The pirates must have a dock somewhere for their piracy, and that base is in Somalia.  A petty warlord protects and profits from them.

Now, that base may not have the facilities to unload the tanks, as it's probably a rather large ship.  But it had to have crossed their minds.

by Zwackus on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They are based in Eyl. I hope the Russians just goes there and blockades the port and kills as many pirates as they can find.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:24:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's funny, but I seem to recall that, not too long ago, there was some group or another in Somalia that had taken care of the problem.  Oh yeah, the same ones that had driven the warlords out of Mogadishu and were on the verge of re-establishing the Somali state.  Whatever happened to them?

Oh yeah, we payed the Ethiopians to knock them out, and return Somalia to the status quo.

Score one for freedom.

by Zwackus on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 05:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the vessel is a RoRo type, it would be possible to kludge together some kind of ramp onto a dock.  The question is whether they could get the tanks under cover and away before various "air assets" arrived on scene.  The US has SS missles that break up into a number of smaller homing anti-tank missles a few miles from the target.  I don't know if they can be air launched or sea launched.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 02:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or if the US has the proper assets in the field at the right place and time, and the willingness to use them.
by Zwackus on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 05:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Africa | Vow to pursue Sudan over 'crimes'

The International Criminal Court's (ICC) chief prosecutor has told the BBC he will continue to push for Sudan's leader to be charged with war crimes.

Luis Moreno Ocampo said there was strong evidence that President Omar al-Bashir was behind attacks on civilians in Darfur province.

The Sudanese government has rejected the allegations, saying the ICC's case threatens peace efforts in Darfur.

A number of countries want the UN to block the attempt to indict Mr Bashir.

"We found evidence that al-Bashir himself was controlling the attacks on these people who normally live in Darfur," Mr Ocampo told the BBC's Arabic Service.

He said local people had been raped and killed by both the Sudanese army and Janjaweed pro-government militias.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:16:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | World | Americas | US rivals claim TV debate victory

US presidential hopefuls Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain have both claimed to have come out on top in their first televised debate.

Mr McCain's campaign said he had shown a "mastery on national security issues", while Mr Obama's aides said he had passed the commander-in-chief test.

Correspondents say the debate ended with no clear winner, but TV polls on their performances put Mr Obama ahead.

During the event, the two men sparred over foreign policy and the economy.

Mr McCain accused his rival of naivety over Iran, while Mr Obama said Mr McCain had wrongly thought the Iraq war would be over quickly.

They also attacked each other's position on the US financial crisis.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Palin Problem by Kathleen Parker on National Review Online
Palin's recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity, and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.

No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I've been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I've also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.

<...>

Only Palin can save McCain, her party, and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first.

Do it for your country.



Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:05:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
this is the same thing that annoyed me with Hillary, the reflexive belief that any woman will do, however inadequate. I like Hillary as a candidate, but she wasn't as good as Obama, not just in terms of fighting the campaign, but in policy terms there were problems all over hte place. Yet, there was this constant stench in the background that any woman who appraised her as a potential President of the United States and found her wanting was some kind of gender traitor. Fortunately, this has now subsided in the name of winning the Presidency, but I'm sure rumbles will continue for a while yet.

Now we have it with Sarah Palin. there were any number of supremely qualified female VP candidates in republican ranks if McCain wanted to do that. but he didn't, he wanted somebody to stir up the fundie wingnuts, a female fundie wingnut suited him fine cos he could get to stare at her backside as well.

So her ability to be a credible candidate was always irrelevant. Her appeal is actually to those dolts who voted George bush cos they thought they could have a beer with him, he was an ordinary guy and fed into the bs belief that anybody can be President, even Homer or Moe. So now you have somebody who is emphatically demonstrating that being President requires more than faking it, you have to know your stuff and this Jane Doe absolutely doesn't know jack shit, embarrasingly so.

It's interesting to see the pundit class finally showing there's a point beyond which they cannot go. They've put up with everything the Bushies have done for the last eight years, excused and applauded most of it, covered up the rest. Yet here now, with her obvious inadequacy, Palin has crossed a line. The pundits don't want an ordinary person in Washington.
Bush was acceptable cos, despite the image, he was privileged and an insider, as they consider themselves to be. Palin wouldn't fit in with their cocktail weenie set, she may know how to gut a moose, but doesn't know which fork to use for which course. So they're gonna call her out.

but never imagine this is about knowledge, hell look at who they've tolerated for 8 years. this is a class issue, not an capability one.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 05:37:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Business | US edges closer to bail-out deal

US Republican and Democratic Party lawmakers have said they are getting closer to agreeing a massive rescue plan to aid the financial markets.

Democrat senator Harry Reid told the upper house that "significant progress" had been made, but stressed there was still "a long way" to go.

He said about 15 issues had still to be resolved between the two sides.

Republican senator Mitch McConnell said the goal was to announce an agreement on Sunday and to have a vote on Monday.

Negotiators want to have the outline of a deal to reassure the markets before they reopen on Monday.

During a rare Saturday session of the upper house, Mr Reid, the Senate majority leader, said congressional staff had worked on the legislation for the bail-out plan until the early hours of the morning.

President George W Bush used his weekly radio address to try and reassure those Americans concerned about the burden on taxpayers of the deal, saying the package would end up costing less than the headline figure of $700bn.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Associated Press: Senate leader: Significant progress on bailout

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress made significant progress on a financial bailout of Wall Street and the Senate's Democratic leader said Saturday he hoped to announce a deal by the end of the weekend.

President Bush expressed confidence that lawmakers soon would pass a rescue plan before leaving Capitol Hill to campaign for re-election. He acknowledged that many Americans are frustrated by a situation that has led to a possible $700 billion bailout and angered that they may have to cover Wall Street firms' mistakes.

The bailout is intended to rescue bankers from the bad loans that threaten to derail the economy and plunge the country into a long depression. With talks set to resume, negotiators sought a deal before Asian markets open Monday.

"We hope sometime tomorrow evening we can announce that there has been some sort of agreement in principle so that the only thing that will have to be done is to write the legislation," said Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev. "It is still a long way from completing it but we've made significant progress."

Aides worked late into the night, he said, and there are "probably 15 issues still left outstanding that senators are going to have to get together and resolve."



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:20:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
KCBS - CA Voters and Homeowners Displeased with Bailout Plan
SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS)  -- The proposed Bush Administration's bailout of Wall Street has fired up California voters from both major parties.

East Bay congressman Ellen Tauscher's democratic offices have received more than 1,000 e-mails and phone calls about the $700 billion bailout out plan. The majority of voters are against the plan.

Mike Larsen, who speaks for democratic congresswoman Jackie Speier, says the reaction has been strong in that office, too.

"We've gotten 925 either calls or e-mails to the office on this financial crisis, less than 10 of all of those who have given unqualified support."

Voters are outraged, according to press secretary Jennifer May who works in republican congresswoman Mary Bono's office.

Congressman Dan Lungren, another republican, says his constituents seem to be uniformly against the plan for Wall Street.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wall Street pay seen slipping in new era | Special Coverage | Reuters

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The next casualty of the credit crunch: lavish Wall Street paychecks.

As the year-long credit crisis spiraled out of control last week, the last two major U.S. investment banks converted into bank holding companies regulated by the Federal Reserve. Now Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) and Morgan Stanley (MS.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz), which for decades made windfall profits and enriched top rainmakers, will look more like the stodgier commercial banks.

The new arrangement will be more stable, but also less profitable and, ultimately, less generous at bonus time.

"We're at the end of an era. The higher risk, higher reward strategies the investment banks used are going to be tamed," said John Challenger, who runs outplacement firm Challenger Gray & Christmas and tracks pay trends. "The same de-leveraging seen at the banks will go on in compensation."



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:37:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it me, or do the guys on the left look happy and the guys on the right not so much?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 03:44:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Paulson is trying not to burst out laughing.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:13:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I dunno.  That grimace on Reid's face looks more like rigor mortis than happiness.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 10:36:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
U.S.: Iran Resolution Shelved in Rare Defeat for "Israel Lobby"
WASHINGTON, Sep 26 (IPS) - In a significant and highly unusual defeat for the so-called "Israel Lobby", the Democratic leadership of the House of Representatives has decided to shelve a long-pending, albeit non-binding, resolution that called for President George W. Bush to launch what critics called a blockade against Iran.

House Congressional Resolution (HR) 362, whose passage the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) had made its top legislative priority this year, had been poised to pass virtually by acclamation last summer.

But an unexpectedly strong lobbying effort by a number of grassroots Iranian-American, Jewish-American, peace, and church groups effectively derailed the initiative, although AIPAC and its supporters said they would try to revive it next year or if Congress returns to Washington for a "lame-duck" session after the November elections.

Congress, which may still adopt a package of new unilateral economic sanctions against Iran -- some of which the administration has already imposed -- over the weekend, is expected to adjourn over the next several days.

''We'll resubmit it when Congress comes back, and we'll have even more signatures,'' the resolution's main author, New York Democrat Rep. Gary Ackerman, told the Washington Times, adding that the resolution currently has 270 co-sponsors, or some two-thirds of the House's entire membership.


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

S.E.C. Concedes Oversight Flaws Fueled Collapse

WASHINGTON -- The chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, a longtime proponent of deregulation, acknowledged on Friday that failures in a voluntary supervision program for Wall Street's largest investment banks had contributed to the global financial crisis, and he abruptly shut the program down.

The S.E.C.'s oversight responsibilities will largely shift to the Federal Reserve, though the commission will continue to oversee the brokerage units of investment banks.

Here's an interesting tidbit


The program Mr. Cox abolished was unanimously approved in 2004 by the commission under his predecessor, William H. Donaldson. Known by the clumsy title of "consolidated supervised entities," the program allowed the S.E.C. to monitor the parent companies of major Wall Street firms, even though technically the agency had authority over only the firms' brokerage firm components.

The commission created the program after heavy lobbying for the plan from all five big investment banks. At the time, Mr. Paulson was the head of Goldman Sachs. He left two years later to become the Treasury secretary and has been the architect of the administration's bailout plan.

The investment banks favored the S.E.C. as their umbrella regulator because that let them avoid regulation of their fast-growing European operations by the European Union.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be nice to imagine the european leaders will use this disgust to firewall europe from lax regulatory regimes. enact huge tariffs barriers to moving money around in this way so that all companies that trade in europe are proerly taxed and regulated. this will certainly put the UK in a pickle and will have to choose between EU competence and the UDS wild west.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 05:53:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

any physiognomists in the house?

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:22:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh crap. :)
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:37:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The difference is that Crowley was harmless....
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 08:50:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
lol!

the resemblance is uncanny...

did AC die in time to be reborn HP?

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:23:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well Crowleys favourite Rabelasian saying does sound more Cheneyesque.

Thelema - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law"


Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 10:03:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Listen carefully when Paulson speaks.  He is permanently short of breath.  He speaks in short phrases punctuated by quick and audible intakes of breath.  Fifty euros says he has emphysema.

Somewhere in cyberspace, the ghost of de Chardin is smiling.
by budr on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 10:41:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He has visibly aged over the last nine months.  For a moment I thought that the bottom picture was just a recent black and white of Paulson after a late nighter.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 02:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Congress Approves Auto-Industry Loans, Defense Budget

Sept. 27 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Congress gave final approval to legislation providing the auto industry with $25 billion in loans, lifting an offshore oil-drilling ban and funding the government until the next president takes office.

The legislation, approved by the Senate 78-12, spends $602 billion for the departments of defense, homeland security and veterans affairs. It also funds most of the rest of the government at current levels until March 6.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These loans are just as dodgy as the Alitala loans from the Italian government, aren't they?

Or are they just loan guarantees?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:24:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a few days old, but I only just noticed it, and I don't think it's been reported here. If you were wondering where the $700 billion number comes from, here's what Forbes said:

In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:41:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gives one nice warm fuzzies to know the future of the global economy is in the hands of professionals.

(How can I make a "Pulling It Outta Our Asses Technology" banner?)

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 06:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
((*asses Treasury)): [Treasury's Pulled It Outta Our Asses™ Technology]

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Have we at last identified the "Giant Sucking Sound" about which Perot warned?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 08:50:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but it's certainly worth repeating!

Presumably part of the "we make reality, you comment it" school of politics. They certainly got the commenting from us...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 06:17:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, all assumptions I have seen on various blogs suggested, that the 700  bn $ would still be too little for the plan to work out, as the planners hope for.

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis
by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 07:02:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It depends what they want ot do with it. I think Meteor Blades on dkos suggested that the figure was at least twice the worst figure considered to shore up the mortgage crisis underlying this if that was the intent. But not enough if you wanted to give a huge great final pay off from Bush to Wall st.

that's why a lot of people are suspicious of this.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 05:57:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i just watched some talking head on the huckster's new talk show (!!) say that 35 billion would buy all the houses mortgaged...

hucky playing bass with the 'house' band was kinda fascinating, in a musical trainwreck kind of way.

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:26:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps in Arkansas.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 08:51:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To buy all the houses on their inflated prices, you might need 35 trillion, not billion.
100 million houses with an average worth of 350,000.00$, which is not so unrealistic, would make 35 trillion.

Perhaps there is confusion, as in some languages billion means already 10^12, while in English it just means 10^9.
I don't know about Spanish.

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:16:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
er, i don't think he meant at the inflated prices, more what they're actually worth.

i know, who's to say?

that's his guess...

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:21:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bernanke Jumps Out of Political Fray After Warning of Collapse

By Scott Lanman and Craig Torres

Sept. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Ben S. Bernanke jumped into the political fray this week when he urged quick action from Congress to deal with ``grave threats'' to the financial system. Now he's trying to jump back out.

The Federal Reserve chairman hasn't returned to Capitol Hill after two days of congressional testimony earlier this week. He has made it clear to Treasury officials and lawmakers that he isn't taking part in negotiating details of a $700 billion proposal to rescue the financial system even as the plan runs into a political buzzsaw.

-skip-

``Bernanke's been a total straight shooter on this,'' Senator Sherrod Brown, an Ohio Democrat who sits on the Banking Committee, said in an interview at the Capitol. ``People trust him. He doesn't have the Wall Street bias that Paulson has. And he doesn't have the Bush administration coloring, if you will, that others have.''

-skip-

At the same time, Bernanke and Paulson are getting political lessons of their own, given the backlash over a plan that Americans see as aiding Wall Street and not Main Street.

``There's been some degree of amazement from the White House -- and certainly Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke - - that people who run for elective office have constituencies that they have to take care of,'' Reid said.



If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 10:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
``There's been some degree of amazement from the White House -- and certainly Secretary Paulson and Chairman Bernanke - - that people who run for elective office have constituencies that they have to take care of,''

One wonders how things would have developed had we not been that close to an election.
But then of course, there would have been no need to push it past November/January.

"Ah but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 02:43:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed, I suspect Congress would have passed the bail-out within three days of Paulson's asking, before opposition could build.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 08:47:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Behind Biggest Insurer'sCrisis

By GRETCHEN MORGENSON
Published: September 27, 2008

Two weeks ago, the nation's most powerful regulators and bankers huddled in the Lower Manhattan fortress that is the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, desperately trying to stave off disaster.

As the group, led by Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., pondered the collapse of one of America's oldest investment banks, Lehman Brothers, a more dangerous threat emerged: American International Group, the world's largest insurer, was teetering. A.I.G. needed billions of dollars to right itself and had suddenly begged for help.

The only Wall Street chief executive participating in the meeting was Lloyd C. Blankfein of Goldman Sachs, Mr. Paulson's former firm. Mr. Blankfein had particular reason for concern.

Although it was not widely known, Goldman, a Wall Street stalwart that had seemed immune to its rivals' woes, was A.I.G.'s largest trading partner, according to six people close to the insurer who requested anonymity because of confidentiality agreements. A collapse of the insurer threatened to leave a hole of as much as $20 billion in Goldman's side, several of these people said.

Days later, federal officials, who had let Lehman die and initially balked at tossing a lifeline to A.I.G., ended up bailing out the insurer for $85 billion.



If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 11:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, yesterday I posted that we should never know whether Goldman Sachs would have made it without a former CEO as Treasury Secretary (OK, for my defense, I meant that we could suspect something at least).

It appears that I have been made to eat my words. A mere day later, we know.

Conflict of interest as standard operation has been on of the (many) plagues of Republican administrations -and even Democratic ones to some extent. And this administration is a real epitome of that.

Everytime I hear that someone is particularly qualified for a role in politics because of his executive experience in a large company, or vice-versa, I cringe.

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 02:49:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yesterday's was a rhetorical question, surely?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:36:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in all honesty, while I suspected that it was the case, I could not be certain.
But now, it does seem beyond reasonable doubt.

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 11:38:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the rimour has it that J P Morgan took over Bear Stearns because othewise it would have gone dowb with it.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:35:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The rumor was that that was why the Fed helped arrange for Morgan to buy B-S, why they gave it more credit and why they took the most toxic paper from B-S so that Morgan would not have it on its balance sheet.  Paulson is Goldman's guardian angel, who is Morgan's?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 09:56:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard an interview (with Brian Williams?) where McCain was asked: "If you were a betting man,...."  McCain responded, (truthfully and proudly,) "I am a betting man, and...."  As we see.  A good man to have his finger on the button?

McCain ... Ties to Gambling Industry

By JO BECKER and DON VAN NATTA Jr.  NYT
Published: September 27, 2008

Senator John McCain was on a roll. In a room reserved for high-stakes gamblers at the Foxwoods Resort Casino in Connecticut, he tossed $100 chips around a hot craps table. When the marathon session ended around 2:30 a.m., the Arizona senator and his entourage emerged with thousands of dollars in winnings.

HONING AN IMAGE Senator John McCain, as chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee, at a hearing in 2005 to examine accusations of misconduct made by six Indian tribes against their former lobbyist, Jack Abramoff.

BETS Mr. McCain supported tax breaks for casinos over the years, including one that helped Foxwoods in Connecticut. He has also gambled there.

A lifelong gambler, Mr. McCain takes risks, both on and off the craps table. He was throwing dice that night not long after his failed 2000 presidential bid, in which he was skewered by the Republican Party's evangelical base, opponents of gambling. Mr. McCain was betting at a casino he oversaw as a member of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee, and he was doing so with the lobbyist who represents that casino, according to three associates of Mr. McCain.

The visit had been arranged by the lobbyist, Scott Reed, who works for the Mashantucket Pequot, a tribe that has contributed heavily to Mr. McCain's campaigns and built Foxwoods into the world's second-largest casino. Joining them was Rick Davis, Mr. McCain's current campaign manager. Their night of good fortune epitomized not just Mr. McCain's affection for gambling, but also the close relationship he has built with the gambling industry and its lobbyists during his 25-year career in Congress.



If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 11:50:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Does he do it for the gas comp?


A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 04:37:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nah, it's how they give him his vig.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 08:43:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
THIS, THAT, AND THE OTHER

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 03:57:09 PM EST
Inhabitat » London Design Festival: WeWantTap by Provokateur
Is there a need for bottled water? On Thursday, we questioned whether Fiji's eco-friendly efforts were really that green. And it seems that the folks at the London Design Festival were thinking about the bottled water controversy as well. At the Greengaged best practice case studies earlier this month at the London Design Festival, Joshua Blackburn presented a pro-tap water campaign developed by communication design agency, Provokateur. With a desire to bring about positive changes in consumer behavior, WeWantTap is both a campaign and product line. The campaign is simple, though the ambition is big, as Joshua explained: "We want to develop an initiative to take on the bottled water industry."

The We Want Tap site is excellently designed. Worth taking a look at.

(been running since mid-june, so not quite news... but interesting)

We Want Tap : Bad Water : Bottled water backlash

The tide is turning for the bottled water industry and after a decade of unfettered growth, UK sales of bottled water have decreased by 9 percent.

Bottled water is being increasingly banned at local council meetings and Prime Minister Gordon Brown recently announced that his government would be phasing out bottled water in all of its departments.

Campaigners are getting their act together to put the squeeze on bottled water. Think Outside the Bottle, Neau, Refill not Landfill and Water on Tap are just four campaigns amongst many that are hoping to give the industry - and the public - something to think about.


(insert further puns here)
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Chinese astronaut walks in space

A Chinese astronaut has become the first in his country's history to take a walk in space.

In an operation broadcast live on national TV, fighter pilot Zhai Zhigang emerged from the capsule orbiting the Earth to wave a Chinese flag.

Mr Zhai, 42, stayed outside the capsule for 15 minutes while his two fellow astronauts stayed in the spacecraft.

The exercise is seen as key to China's ambition to build an orbiting station in the next few years.

Mr Zhai began the manoeuvre just after 1630 Beijing Time (0830 GMT) on Saturday, and completed it about 15 minutes later.

"I'm feeling quite well. I greet the Chinese people and the people of the world," he said as he climbed out of the Shenzhou VII capsule.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:20:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And we send foreign aid to these people...

</madness>

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Sep 28th, 2008 at 07:24:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
RELIGION: Atheists Take to the Streets
MEXICO CITY, Sep 26 (IPS) - Atheists who have built up a virtual community over the last decade will hold the "First Global Atheist March for a Secular Society" on Sunday, with the aim of defending their views and protesting that they are misinterpreted and in some cases discriminated against.

The organisers say the main marches will be held in Madrid, Mexico and Lima, while demonstrations may also take place in London and Rome.

"We have decided to take to the streets to fight prejudice and discrimination against atheists, stress that although we don't believe in god, we have ethics and values, and demand that secularism should be respected," Alfredo Villegas, spokesman for the group Ateos Mexicanos (Mexican Atheists), told IPS.

There are hundreds of religions in the world, but only a handful of large ones, of which Christianity and Islam have the biggest numbers of followers. Meanwhile, different studies estimate that atheists (those who deny the existence of god) and agnostics (those who believe that at our present level of knowledge we cannot know whether or not a god exists) number between 500,000 and one billion people worldwide.


When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
KLATSCH

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 03:57:38 PM EST
Screen legend Paul Newman has died | L.A. Now | Los Angeles Times

Paul Newman, the quiet, classy star who, despite those bright blue eyes and leading man looks, managed to carve out a career as quirky as his legendary sense of humor, has died. It's typical of Newman, who lived his life far from the glare and craziness of the Hollywood spotlight, that the cancer which ended his life never became more than a vague rumor. Here's more about Newman from our obit, by Lynn Smith:

Stunningly handsome, Newman maintained his superstar status while protecting himself from its corrupting influences through nearly 100 Broadway, television and movie roles. As an actor and director, he evolved into Hollywood's elder statesman, admired as much offscreen for his quiet generosity, unconventional business sense, race car daring, political activism and enduring marriage to actress Joanne Woodward.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:07:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Paul Newman: Rebel, rogue, hero
From Butch Cassidy and Cool Hand Luke to Fast Eddie Felson, Paul Newman brought an integrity, vigour and wry impertinence to his roles that clicked with the anti-authoritarian spirit of the '60s and '70s.

Initially hamstrung by those piercing blue eyes and matinee idol features, he deliberately sought out more challenging, anti-heroic parts that ensured his career outlasted many of his contemporaries.

His characters - convicts, outlaws, con men and hustlers - were far from admirable. His gift, however, was to invest them with a charm, humour and crumpled nobility that made them irresistible to men and women alike.

It was this that enabled him in later life to become a distinguished character actor capable of elevating films like Road to Perdition, Message in a Bottle and The Hudsucker Proxy by his sheer force of presence.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
William Bradley: The Guy In My Refrigerator: Paul Newman

Paul Newman, seen here in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, passed away last night.

The man whose picture has been in my refrigerator for 25 years has passed away. That would be Paul Newman, who said of his Newman's Own salad dressing: "The sad thing is that the salad dressing out-grosses my films." He was being amusing, as usual. The proceeds, incidentally, went to charity.

Paul Newman died of cancer last night at his home in Westport, Connecticut. His illness, which came on this year, had been kept private. He was 83.

Newman was one of the biggest stars in the history of movies, equally adept at playing the hero and the anti-hero. Like his mostly friendly rival, Steve McQueen, Newman set the standard in the '60s for the action-oriented matinee idol. Like McQueen, he was also a top race car driver, finishing second in the 24 Hours of Le Mans and running a US racing outfit for decades. Yet offscreen, he was a staunch political activist. He said he was prouder of making the Nixon enemies list than he was of his 10 Academy Award nominations.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:10:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I supposes that we should take this as proof that if we ever do truly get support for economic redistribution someone better bring a calculator. I got this in my email from my friend, the hard quant scientist.

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a `We Deserve It Dividend'.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a `We Deserve It Dividend'. Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?



And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 04:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm finding it hard to find any flaws in the logic.

You should post this on dKos and see what happens. :)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:01:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Er - except for the obvious one. Doh.

What did you say he does for a living again?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 27th, 2008 at 05:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that friend he mentioned just sent him the link. I'm not sure whether the author of the original post was really that stupid, or whether he was playing a joke to see how many people would fall for it.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on