Thursday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris
Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:47:53 AM EST

One day to the meetup!


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Promise I'll mention this and go away (for now).

On CSPAN Washington Journal this A.M., not one but TWO different callers accused Obama and his crowd for a conspiracy to create the current Wall Street mess just prior to the election.

I'm NOT making this shit up.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:02:13 AM EST
Were they foaming at the mouth?

Would it make an entertaining clip (in a sick way of course - il va sans dire!)?

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:41:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On CSPAN Washington Journal this A.M., not one but TWO different callers accused Obama and his crowd for a conspiracy to create the current Wall Street mess just prior to the election.

He really is the Magic Negro.

(rolls eyes)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:15:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ooooooooooooooooooooooh.  Use of the word Negro.  Is that politically correct?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:46:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it's fine, since it's used in an ironic way in this example.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:53:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Speaking as one of ET's resident PC cops, I agree.
by MarekNYC on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've been running the Magic Negro joke since the Iowa primary anyway... the shock has worn out by now.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:00:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but you know me.  I milk things.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've been milking a magic negro for 9 months?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why do you think I haven't worried about inflation?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:36:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How much does Magic Negro milk go for?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I don't sell it.  It has special powers, and I'll need it for future evil plots magic ponies wonderful things.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That sounds like a topic for a completely different set of forums.
by Zwackus on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The nation holds its breath as Berlusconi's cronies deliberate to rescind their offer to take over the choice morsels leftover after Berlusconi transferred all of Alitalia's debts to his adoring citizens (presently at € 72 per Italian).

The Leftist unions refuse to cave into their ultimatum.

The palace is surrounded by hostile demonstrators.

Anybody gotta dream?

Hell, Air France had a better offer and was ready to shoulder all the debts.

The lovefest for Berlusconi continues. He is now at a 60% approval rating.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:13:48 AM EST
17:05. Hurahhhh!!! The CAI (Compagnia aerea italiana) threw in the towel! It's a catastrophe! Damn commies! Berlusconi's ratings have shot up to 79%!

(Of course the CAI on the way out is gonna grab Atitech... if they can get out of the building, that is.)

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:19:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
17:20. Berlusconi accuses the Leftist union CGIL and the pilots of the Alitalia disaster.

Ratings are now at 81%.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You know slowly I am believing that the creationists might be right. Human beings were created by God, stupid! - and evolusion is just a phantasie to cover up the stupidity. :-(
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:28:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, but if god created mankind in his own image, he must be stupid, vulgar and have a broad mean streak. Some deity, huh?

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:43:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Most gods are stupid, vulgar, jealous and mean.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How do you know?  How many have you met?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:47:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I read their press releases.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:26:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Easy, he's a Roman: they've cornered the gods market for 2500 years and counting...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:56:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Given the competition, that's not surprising.

Vikings - we all get to wait for Armageddon, which the good guys are doomed to lose, at which point we all die.

Aztecs - our god needs the blood of human sacrifices to survive, or else the sun will disappear forever.

by Zwackus on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:25:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jesus isn't. He loves you.

And he'll fry your ass in hell for all eternity to prove it.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
who ever promised you a rose garden?

 :)

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:25:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well theres only one song to go with that. and I have no Idea why a Rap artist hasnt covered this yet.



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:47:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The man!

And he is sorely missed.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:17:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How can his ratings be going up? Let me guess, that 81% would approve of Berlusconi lining up the unions or the investors (or both) against a wall and shooting them?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:36:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who's doing the rating?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:21:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
La Repubblica has a poll asking readers whose fault this is:
Current Government 54%
Previous Government 2%
Unons 17%
Workers 5%
Previous company management 20%
Private investors 1%
I don't know 1%
Funny that "The EU rules against State subsidies" is not an option...


A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a straw poll by readers of la Repubblica, notoriously biased.

A rigorous poll done on September 15th gives Berlusconi at 60%.

There is an excellent analysis of this phenomenal success this morning by Edmondo Berselli, unfortunately not on line yet.

My comments are ironic but I would not be surprised if his ratings rise further over this. Di Pietro who is the only serious menace to Berlusconi's popularity is at the airport with the workers.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 11:59:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When in a hole, dig deeper!
Berlusconi: "Fallimento Alitalia? Vediamo, voglio approfondire", dice il presidente del Consiglio.Burlesconi: "Failure of Alitalia? We'll see, I want to go deeper" says the Prime Minister


A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:08:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
L'Alitalia continuerà a volare anche dopo che sarà ufficializzato il ritiro dell'offerta avanzata dalla Cai: saranno i lavoratori a garantire la continuerà aziendale a tutela della clientela e dei suoi interessi. E' quanto ha dichiarato il segretario nazionale dello Sdl Paolo Maras

Can the SDL trade union guarantee that fuel will be supplied? That was the reason advanced over the weekend for why Alitalia might not be able to fly already last Monday.

Also, Alitalia could lose its licence to fly due to insolvency.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:11:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a big question. No gas, no fly. How do they expect to pay current bills?
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:27:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ENAC has convoked the commissioner Fantozzi for Monday to verify if there are the conditions necessary to keep their flight license.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:32:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As you can see it's a shouting match.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The EU rules against state subsidies didn't cause this, though. And in my recollection, France gets away with plenty of bailouts, because it does them the right way. In that sense, the rules mainly seem to protect against throwing money in a bottomless pit. Another case of the EU saving Italy from itself, I'd say.

Too bad they didn't do that with regard to the Roma.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:03:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlusconi's government loaned 300 million euro to Alitalia in spring. The sum ran out a few days ago. It was a masked state subsidy. The EU let it go but RyanAir and British may take Italy to court over it.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes they did - Alitalia has been dying since 2006 when the usual subsidies became illegal.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:12:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Alitalia is a monstrous case of corruption. According to some analyses rampant corruption was financed by the inflation of the lira. When the euro came in, all of these companies simply collapsed.

Basically Berlusconi's primary aim in politics is to set up system to keep corruption thriving.

Yesterday the treasury police raided the central offices of Alitalia and took away all the books. Unfortunately any notizia criminis has been largely amnestied either by Berlusconi or Prodi.

In Italy everybody is both guilty and innocent but above all, it's the other guy's fault.

Whatever, it's the workers getting shafted here.

by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
why not make il cavaliere buy it?

he's clutched onto it to get elected, make him own it too!

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I have a dream: Peasants with pitchforks storming Frankenstein's castle. But back to waking life, is he now up to or down to 60%?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Dow's back in negative territory after being up almost 200 at one point.

And Alitalia is failing now?  Sure would be nice if we could just let our idiot airlines fail and bring the European ones in to do it properly.

Anyway, so I've stated probably about twenty thousand times in the last few years that the idea of economists being a group of libertarian and conservative looney toons was a load of shit, pointing out that guys like Krugman and Stiglitz were more representative of the field (being its two biggest guns) than the Kudlows and Cramers of the world.  Still, the straw men are lined up.

A new poll backs me up.  Economists -- real ones, not the DC smut-peddlers and industry hacks on CNBC and in the WSJ -- favor Obama over McCain by a Yurpian-like margin, 59% to 31%.

I'm shocked.  Shocked, I tell you.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:11:55 PM EST
And I've pointed out loads of times that few of that 51% have the guts to go public about their beliefs.

And it remains true.

And while it remains true, they're failing all of us. They have the knowledge to call some of these snake oil policies for what they are. And they don't. So, all that economic hardship coming down the line for all of us. They're partly responsible.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:22:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You'll get no disagreement from me on that, although appearances on television don't get you tenure, and it's a lot easier for established figures like Krugman and Stiglitz to do so.

I'd point out, too, that you could level the same criticism, albeit not to the same degree, at climate scientists here.  And the economists are at least active in the blogosphere in a more public way.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:27:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Definitely true about the climate scientists, but the voodoo economists have been pissing me off for longer... ;-)
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Try being taught by them in the intro classes.  Then we'll talk about who can claim to get pissed at them properly. ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Metatone:
And I've pointed out loads of times that few of that 51% have the guts to go public about their beliefs.

I'd almost agree, but I suspect most of them don't understand PR or the media, so if they wanted to go public they wouldn't know how.

The Randroids and looney-toons Chicago vampires not only understand PR, they've had generous funding to help them get the evangelical message out.

Which means that when journos go looking for comments from economic experts, the moderates aren't at the top of their contacts list.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Dow opened up 200.  Apparently some found some bargains at yesterday's close.  Bear trap! Bear trap! Bear trap!?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh FUCK!  Not quite 1 P.M. EST and DOWn over 100.

Bail!  Bail!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:51:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was talking to an academic economist from a name brand university on a DC to NYC bus a couple weeks ago. After mentioning that I'd been campaign volunteering, he cautiously asked for who, and literally breathed a sigh of relief when I said Obama. I noted that econ departments are one of the few academic areas where you can find Republicans. He agreed, and said that the problem with the past seven years is that it has made social interaction more difficult. Before Bush his view was that you could be both a decent person and intelligent while being a Republican, just wrong. Now it's either one or the other. Still, in the interest of conflict avoidance he tries to avoid political topics with them and stay polite when it comes up. His wife takes a different approach which has apparently caused some interesting moments at parties.
by MarekNYC on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've met and/or read Republican and libertarian economists I've had respect for.  (Tyler Cowen of George Mason is one.)  Most of them are probably not supporting McCain, though.  The biggest problem is that the wackos take over a few departments.

Auburn is a big one, but you can even find some in the Ivy League.

As I've said, a few of the Auburn types polluted Florida State -- again, the intro classes were just hideous (nothing but Republican Supply-Sider propaganda) -- but the upper-level stuff was controlled by a pretty good lot.

As far as the differing schools of thought, the Berkeleys and Princetons and Columbias are much greater in number than the Auburns, thankfully.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Auburn Philosophy department is chock-a-block with Randroids; a veritable hotspot of 2nd and 3rd rate minds.  

No one could have predicted
by ATinNM on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:32:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Dow surges on news that Paulson is going to backstop the entire financial sector"

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:40:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And that means WHAT exactly?  How soon can we in the US expect     HYPERINFLATION   ?!!!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
see here.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:03:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

... would allow banks to shovel bad debt off their balance sheets and send them back to business as usual.

there is something VERY WRONG here!

"So your house almost completely burned down because of all of those oily rags in your garage?  Well, the fire dept. put the blaze out, so go back to business as usual."   What?  !!!!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As long as that means people don't get foreclosed on their houses...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:19:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can I haz optimismz?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Surely you mean that as snark?

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:13:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, but HYPERVENTILATION has started already.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:18:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As long as I can buy 10 lbs (4-5 kilos for you Eurofolks) of potatoes for $5 American, hyper hasn't hit yet.  Wait until the grocery store is boarded up ... HELLO!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perfect.  They're going to socialize the entire mess.

Maybe Grandpa Keating can bring his buddy Keating back for an encore.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:35:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great comment from a reader at the WaPo:

Is anyone other than me feeling really good about the economy today? I mean, here I was yesterday struggling to make my next mortgage payment, and now I'm the part-owner of the largest insurance company in the US...and rumors that I may even become a part owner of a few banks next week.

As they say, only in America. Now I understand what the Republicans mean when they talk about "trickle down."

Indeed.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:41:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well what with each American giving the banking industry $1000, I'd say it puts you all in a considerably different position, the next time the bank manager calls you in to discuss the fact that your account is overdrawn.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True.  "I'll pay the credit card when I frakking feel like it, assholes.  You owe me more than I owe you."

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And, for that matter, the "Ownership Society"
by Zwackus on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or "Pwn3rship Society," as Mig has called it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I copied that from the comments to a blog post somewhere else.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn it, Mig.  I can't remember what I was doing ten minutes ago, and you want me to remember that? ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:15:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The minister of justice, Beppe Alfano, just declared that he would not authorize any legal action against Sabina Guzzanti for having allegedly offended the dignity and honour of Pope Ratzinger.
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:25:54 PM EST
According to La Repubblica's headline, he said "The Pope has a great capacity for forgiveness" (Il Papa ha grande capacità di perdono)

LOL

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ya. Forgive what?
by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:33:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC News: Palin's e-mail account plundered
The hacked Yahoo account was one of two Ms Palin owned

Anonymous hackers have gained access to the personal e-mail account of US vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin.

Those behind the hack put screenshots of messages in Ms Palin's Yahoo inbox on the whistle-blowing site Wikileaks.



A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:33:30 PM EST
Lesson: Get a GMail account.  (And teach McCain to use a computer, while she's at it.)  I think Caribou Barbie and Jerome are the only two people who still use that awful thing.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 12:55:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
McCain Says He Would Fire SEC's Cox If President (Update1)

By Hans Nichols and Catherine Dodge
Enlarge Image/Details

Sept. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Republican presidential nominee John McCain said he would fire Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Christopher Cox if he were president.

``The chairman of the SEC serves at the appointment of the president and in my view has betrayed the public's trust,'' McCain said at a rally in Iowa. ``If I were president today, I would fire him.''

SEC spokesman John Nester declined to comment. President George W. Bush's spokeswoman, Dana Perino, said in response that Cox ``has the president's confidence.''

-Skip-

The SEC ``kept in place trading rules that let speculators and hedge funds turn our markets into a casino,'' the Arizona senator, 72, said. ``We cannot wait any longer for more failures in our financial system.''

McCain also used the speech to attack his Democratic rival, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois, saying he hasn't taken a firm position on the takeover of AIG and that he and congressional Democrats haven't got a plan to prevent a future crisis.

Placing Blame

Obama has said the crisis stems from the Bush administration's failure to oversee markets and argued that McCain, who has supported deregulation in the past, would continue those policies.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, called the Republican candidate's statement, ``very typical McCain-style politics, go after the first person you can to divert attention.''

Cox, 55, has presided over the SEC, Wall Street's main regulator, since August 2005. A former U.S. representative from California, his nomination by Bush was confirmed by the Senate by unanimous consent.



As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:09:20 PM EST
One day to the meetup!

Indeed! And it looks like we will have great weather.

Paris Prévisions météo de Météo-France - Météo locale:
Firday:    Sun, 8°C / 18°C, wind 10 km/h
Saturday: Sun, 8°C / 20°C, wind 10 km/h       
Sunday: Sun, 9°C / 18°C , wind 20 km/h

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:21:20 PM EST
I've had my hair cut especially.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:29:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've corn-rowed my pubes!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:33:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Please don't show us the photos.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:34:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hell no.  Youtube or nothing.  Any takers?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:36:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rumours push Fortis deeper into trouble

The current financial crisis is claiming an increasing number of victims, not just in the US but in western Europe too. In Amsterdam, the Dutch-Belgian financial services group Fortis is being hardest hit. What can the financial services watchdog do about it?

By Heleen de Graaf and Philip de Witt Wijnen, NTC Handelsblad

Has the Dutch finance minister Wouter Bos or central bank president Nout Wellink already rung ING boss Michel Tilmant and Rabobank CEO Bert Heemskerk to ask, "what shall we do with Fortis?"...

The situation at Fortis resembles that of Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers and HBOS. Certain stock market players - read hedge funds which can profit from a continued decline in prices - spread rumours that a bank has a solvency problem.

Whether this is true or not doesn't matter. Because, in the current jittery market such a rumour is enough to spark a wave of selling. The declining share price pressures the bank in question and prompts other banks to withdraw their loans to it. Anxious customers may decide to withdraw their funds too. As a result, the bank has a solvency problem. The process is a self-fulfilling prophesy.

On Tuesday, Fortis categorically denied rumours that it was considering a new emission. "There are no new developments," it said in a statement. Fortis plans to give more details about its position in the coming days. Nevertheless, its share price continued to plummet.

by Magnifico on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:28:46 PM EST
Jerome a Paris: (Jun 29th 2008)


BRUSSELS/AMSTERDAM - Fortis expects a complete collapse of the US financial markets within a few weeks. That explains, according to Fortis, the series of actions by the bank of last Thursday to raise €8 billion. "We have been saved just in time. The situation in the US is much worse than we had thought", says Fortis chairman Maurice Lippens. Fortis expects bankruptcies amongst 6000 American banks which have a small coverage currently. But also with Citigroup, General Motors, a complete meltdown in the US is beginning."

European Tribune - Not liquidity. Solvency. (Dec 17th 2007)

China's Ping An buys Fortis stake for $2.7 billion (29 November)

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Ping An Insurance (Group) Co, China's No.2 life insurer, bought a 4.2 percent stake in Dutch-Belgian financial services firm Fortis for $2.7 billion, the latest in a spate of overseas investments by Chinese financial firms.


NRC Handelsblad has a follow up on those items:

nrc.nl - International-Features - Rumours push Fortis deeper into trouble

Its controversial solvency programme unveiled at the end of June is stalling. Analysts estimate Fortis has only managed to collect half of the required 8.3 billion euro in funding necessary to restore its capital buffers.

The sale of several non-core assets and a bond issue are struggling. What's more: financials around the world are also trying to sell assets. So even if it does succeed, Fortis will not get the highest price. In addition, there is still no official go-ahead for Chinese insurer Ping An's 2.1 billion euro investment in Fortis's asset management arm.


Too little, too late?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Matthew Yglesias » Sheunemann: McCain Just Doesn't Want to Meet With Spain's PM

Wow. I really thought that John McCain's Spain gaffe was just that, a gaffe, wherein he somehow got confused about what was happening and didn't understand that the question about holding a meeting with Spanish Prime Minister José Zapatero was a question about Spain and Europe rather than rogue leaders from Latin America. Certainly that strikes me as the fairest reading of the audio. Here's the relevant portion, in English:

But now along comes Randy Scheueneman with an official campaign statement saying that it wasn't a gaffe, that McCain was articulating an actual "no meetings with Spain" policy:

The questioner asked several times about Senator McCain's willingness to meet Zapatero (and id'd him in the question so there is no doubt Senator McCain knew exactly to whom the question referred). Senator McCain refused to commit to a White House meeting with President Zapatero in this interview.

That's an insane policy. Recall that under the North Atlantic Treaty, the United States is actually obligated to go to war on behalf of Spanish territorial integrity and vice versa.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:36:38 PM EST
is this a petty-minded payback for zappo pulling the troops from the grand co-optioncoalition?

smells like it

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 01:49:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scheunemann is a neocon and all the neocons hate Spain. Plenty of neocons in the McCain camp. Still, everything indicates that McCain himself is forgetful at best, if not outright ignorant. I kind of feel for the old guy as I dread that kind of situation where you are completely out of the loop on a conversation and start spouting nonsense as a defence. Still... a person should learn to ask.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
why the hate-on for spain, is it just the iraq thing, or does it go deeper? is it just the neocons, and they liked spain under aznar, no?
old europe?

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 at 05:26:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It is the Iraq thing and the cozy relationship between the neocons and Aznar, who has been trolling since he left in 2004.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 at 05:28:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I have said elsewhere, the fact that the Bush administration is shunning ZP since the May 2004 pullout is a big deal in Spain, hence the journalist kept pressing McCain for a straight answer to whether he would meet with ZP.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:23:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
who in spain cares? the people, or some of spain's pars-that-be?

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 at 06:57:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the fact is that Spain is a NATO and OECD member and its GDP would qualify it for G8 membership (ahead of Canada and Russia) so not being able to have official contacts above Secretary of State level (and when Condi comes to Spain she's quite aggressive) is a difficulty in conducting policy.

The Right Wing opposition and media use Bush's snubs as an argument that Spain's standing in the world is diminished because of ZP.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 at 07:24:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks, migeru, for a concise, informative summation.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 at 03:33:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Matt's first reaction was a very generous take on the audio.

And, to the surprise of no one, Randy Scheueneman is a liar.  They're trying to cover for another age-driven screw-up.

The man's 72 years old.  And an old 72 at that.  As I said to Mig earlier, I keep waiting for someone to ask him to name the current president, and for McCain to reply with "Dwight Eisenhower" or something.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:33:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drew, 72 is not old. I'm almost 72. Could I handle the President's job? Sure, mentally.
The only thing is that I would not like to travel. I like to stay close to my own bathroom.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is why I added, "And an old 72 at that."  I'm completely in agreement that there are 72 year-olds who could handle the job properly.  My point, clumsily put, is that McCain is not one of them.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:02:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well I really wouldn't want to be President. I'd probably have to give up my 2 p.m. nap.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!
by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:16:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nonsense.  Junior takes naps all the time.

Now if you wanted to be a good president, it might be another story.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:24:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But the choice of approach to cover-up rather emphasises the contempt in the McCain camp for "European allies."

Not that I'm surprised by that, but I think it's worth emphasising, ready for the next time we're considering how NATO works.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 03:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The audio (via El Pais)

(man, the English grammar at El Pais is atrocious, they can't tell if apart from whether)

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's another blogger account, from the Washington Post (via El Pais)
In comments that have caused a kerfuffle in Spain, McCain seemed to lump Spanish Prime Minister Jose Luis Zapatero in the same category as the anti-American leaders of Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba. McCain's remarks came during in an English-language interview with Radio Caracol WSUA 1260AM in Miami, part of the Spanish-language radio group Union Radio, conducted Tuesday.

...

That McCain would lump Zapatero in with such Latin American bad guys as Venezuela's Hugo Chavez comes as a surprise, because Zapatero and Juan Carlos, the King of Spain, were the protagonists in one of the most public anti-Chavez moments in the Spanish-speaking world.

...

Radio Caracol is part of the Union Radio station group that is owned by the Spanish media conglomerate Groupo Prisa, which also owns El Pais.

The interview was not made by a Spanish radio station, but by a Spanish-language Miami radio station partly owned by the same conglomerate that owns El Pais.

The journalist claims they asked the question because the Spanish owners requested it. I wonder whether they did it on purpose since El Pais had already interviewed McCain in april and he had said he wanted to reconstitute relations with Spain.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, that's the same blog - LOL.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 04:48:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It has been a beautiful day and turned out really hot. Almost like finding myself in the middle of summer, by surprise.

made me want to listen to this again...



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 02:27:28 PM EST
CNN.com | Palin transparency proposal already exists in DC

CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa (CNN) - Sarah Palin likes to tell voters around the country about how she "put the government checkbook online" in Alaska. On Thursday, Palin suggested she would take that same proposal to Washington.

"We're going to do a few new things also," she said at a rally in Cedar Rapids. "For instance, as Alaska's governor, I put the government's checkbook online so that people can see where their money's going. We'll bring that kind of transparency, that responsibility, and accountability back. We're going to bring that back to D.C."

There's just one problem with proposing to put the federal checkbook online - somebody's already done it. His name is Barack Obama.

Oops.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 05:56:55 PM EST
From the You-Can't-Make-This-Shit-Up Department:

TPM | Virginia GOP Planning Rally To Reach Out To Minorities -- Starring George Allen!

Finally -- real minority outreach from the GOP. The Virginia Republicans have a big rally coming up this Saturday that's designed to reach out to minority voters in Fairfax County.

Guess who is one of the featured speakers?

George Allen. Yes, that George Allen.

We checked in with the state GOP to ask if Allen is really an effective front-man for the party's efforts to win over minorities, given the "macaca" scandal.



Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:10:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From Obama's speech in New Mexico (via TPM):

He has consistently opposed the sorts of common sense regulations that might have lessened the current crisis. When I was warning about the danger ahead on Wall Street months ago because of the lack of oversight, Senator McCain was telling the Wall Street Journal -- and I quote -- "I'm always for less regulation."

Except now, with the magnitude of the crisis apparent even to the Bush White House, John McCain wants to reverse course. Now, all of a sudden, he's unleashed an angry tirade against all the insiders and lobbyists who've supported him for twenty-six years -- the same folks who run his campaign.

On Monday, he said the economy was fundamentally sound, and he was fundamentally wrong.

On Tuesday, he said the government should stand by and allow one of the nation's largest insurers to collapse, putting the well-being of millions of Americans at risk. But by Wednesday, he changed his mind.

He said he would take on the ol' boy network, but he seemed to forget that he took seven of the biggest lobbyists in Washington from that network and put them in charge of your campaign.

John McCain can't decide whether he's Barry Goldwater or Dennis Kucinich.



Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:12:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
On Monday, he said the economy was fundamentally sound, and he was fundamentally wrong.

Obama is on a roll...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What did Kucinich do to Obama to deserve being compared to McCain? (Apart from the bad hair)

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:24:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not really a swipe at Dennis, since he's mocking McCain for what is basically faux-liberalism.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:30:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't campaign with the party you'd like to have, but with the party you have.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
shakes head

Smoking crack o'er at the McCain campaign?

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 10:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Complete with mocking Drudge siren:

Hilarious.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:29:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FT.com: FSA to ban short-selling of financial stocks
Short-selling of financial stocks is to be banned in the United Kingdom from midnight on Thursday night under rules drawn up by the Financial Services Authority.


A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:11:12 PM EST
I'm sure there are ways around that, and it's not going to solve the problems anyway.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:14:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've already seen the first TV representative of the world of finance warning about excessive regulation.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:20:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They've been doing that for days on CNBC, except that the word "excessive" never enters into it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, there are many ways around that.

In the US there is a more complicated rule, "no short sell on a down tick" (you cannot sell short if the last price movement was down) and there are ways to get around it.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:21:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Never mind. The Dow is up 400, on the far side of 11,000 again, which means the Bush years count as a net win for everyone.

BBC news is showing photos of happy, smiling traders.

Peak panic is over. Everyone is saved!

What are we going to obsess about now?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A-R-U-G-U-L-A

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Rocket

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Spaceship

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:58:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FT.com: No bidders come for Washington Mutual
Hopes of finding a buyer for Washington Mutual dimmed on Thursday as an auction for the beleaguered US bank had yet to attract any bids.

...

Goldman Sachs is conducting the auction for Seattle-based WaMu, which is the sixth largest US bank, with $310bn (€215bn, £170bn) in assets and more than $140bn in deposits.

Goldman has approached a number of banks, including Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo, according to people close to the situation.



A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:27:40 PM EST
Just in time for the weekend.

Betcha WaMu is taken-over Monday morning.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:38:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Together with Morgan Stanley.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another bailout?

I'm beginning to wonder if people might notice.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You don't understand.  This is America.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 06:58:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Another fucked weekend.

Wait, I may have an idea.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 at 07:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You know you love'em funky weekends.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 19th, 2008 at 03:36:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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