European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

Monday Open Thread

by Jerome a Paris
Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:16:33 AM EST

So what's happening in your corner of Europe?
Do you even have corners?

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Monday Open Thread | 128 comments (128 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I'm cornered...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:22:10 AM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Well, some people try to avoid corners, even in the houses they build.

especially in the first version that burned down.

should be easy for you DoDo to find out what it is. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:31:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Rudolph Steiner building?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

(; You can´t be DoDo, he´s taken.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 12:03:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Lol, you are right, DoDo would also know where the building is. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 12:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I was overeager...

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 12:46:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

<smarta--ed> (;

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 12:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Well, to be honest: no rails visible on the photo, so I wouldn't have had much of a chance :-)

But with your help, I can easily do what Fran missed: give the location.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Hey, I did not give the location on purpose, to give you a chance to show off. :-) And you have been right on spot! As always.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Btw. I thought google uses up to date pictures, but this one must be at least one year old.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:09:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

!? What do you mean, Google "using" pictures?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:12:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Well, it must be a picture, because it does not show the current state. I checked in on the house of a friend. On the google map it still looks like being under construction, but it was finished almost a year ago and I am sure as I have visited and there is no more construction going on.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Ah, you mean the space photo, not the photo you posted!

Up-to-dateness might be a good sales pitch by Google, but every spot on the Earth's surface isn't photographed by satellites that often. In fact, one year old is good.

Also check this. Exactly in the middle is the North-South limit of two different space photographs (you can see it on the direction of shadows if you zoom in). From left to right, you see a curving high-speed line with a tunnel in the middle: it's finished on the right, still in construction on the left. This is High-speed to Barcelona (not far from where the above-fold photo in that diary was made), which was opened a year ago, so the picture on the left is over a year old.

In less 'popular' areas, it's even worse. Say look at the canal of Corynth in Greece: along the highway in the curve from West there is a white stripe, then there is no bridge yet, but the whiteness continues straight towards East. This is a new railway line, the bridge stood at least four years ago.

Still worse are sparsely populated areas, for which they only have the decades-old Landsat pictures. For example, here in Tibet, you see a new hi-res image on the right, with two lines: the road on the Northern side of the valley and the new Tibet Railway on the other side; while on the left, you see the continuation of the valley on an old Landsat image -- without the Tibet Railway.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:38:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

LOL. As far as I can see there are no tracks anywhere within 30 kms.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:05:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Ha, if you look the tracks are right near the Bahnhofstrasse. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:08:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

That proves my map-reading skills are abysmal.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:13:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Corners, particularly 90 degree angles, are convenient gateways for the extra-dimensional entities that lurk in the strange geometries beyond the four dimensions we can see and touch. Any properly defended room will be cornerless.

</Lovecraft nerd>

by Zwackus on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 06:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

H.P. Lovecraft Quotes, page 1 of 10

There be those who say that things and places have souls, and there be those who say they have not; I dare not say, myself, but I will tell of The Street.

See not only did he know about beasts from other places, he also knew all about Wall Street

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 06:40:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

There is a burgeoning private spying scandal in Hungary. It started when the leader of a small right-wing party went before the media to announce that she has been spied on - with the not too hidden usggestion that the main right-wing party wanted to instigate her overthrow (after which he party could have been eaten). Later, it became known that a certain private spying company has even installed a spybot on the server of a police body.

The latest news is that this same company has been used by Hungarian former state oil company MOL -- to spy on its own employees, some of whom was suspected to supply Russian companies with internal info during a takeover attempt in 2007.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:27:31 AM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Lazy week at last. Checking accounts today (boring), work flow seminar and movie press show (Coens' Burn after reading) tomorrow. Examining new projects for rest of week.

Meanwhile: Study Finds Widespread Political Ignorance in Finland

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:27:40 AM EST

Sassafras : Update (4.00 / 19)

I went up to see Sassafras in hospital today ands she's given me permission to explain what the situation is.

Following a bad reaction to a minor virus her liver has failed completely and she is now on a steroid regime to try to get it going again. Failing that, she'll have to hang around for a transplant.

As she said, it may seem grim but she feels a lot better for knowing what is wrong with her and that she has been stabilized. For her the worst part was the couple of weeks feeling sick as a dog and not knowing what was wrong, but seeing the doctors go from freshfaced "we'll have you up and out in no time" confidence to grim faced "not able to return her smiles" was not good for her morale. She's probably as happy as someone facing a transplant and an unknown length of hospital stay can be.

So aside from being a somewhat mediterrranean yellowish pallor she's okay and happy to be distracted by email and visits. And dying for news of the world. I spent half and hour summarizing the last weeks worth of news. No flowers, hers is an acute ward and she'll probably say hi and then steer you out to the coffee shop cos normal people are too riskily infectious on such a ward. But I imagine books will be at a premium.

I should be able to pop in again on Friday but won't be able to give news till sunday.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:39:24 AM EST

Re: Sassafras : Update (4.00 / 5)

ps She's been too distracted to organise net access, but now she's stable she should be back online soon.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:43:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sassafras : Update (4.00 / 8)

Thank you Helen for the update on Sassafras. I am glad she is feeling better. Not knowing is often worse, than knowing what is going on.

So if you see her again, please say hello from me.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sassafras : Update (4.00 / 8)

I'm glad you've been able to go and visit her and thanks for the update.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 10:48:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sassafras : Update (4.00 / 3)

Thank youuuuu, Helen!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 12:29:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sassafras : Update (4.00 / 2)

Thanks Helen!

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:34:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sassafras : Update (4.00 / 2)

Un abrazo.. bien fuerte Helen... para Sassafras too.
Huge hug.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:42:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yankees go home! (4.00 / 4)

So what's happening in your corner of Europe?

Americans need not comment in today's Open Thread.

by Magnifico on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 12:41:40 PM EST

Re: Yankees go home! (4.00 / 8)

Don't worry, you still ARE a corner of Europe!

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 12:44:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yankees go home! (4.00 / 2)

And a smaller corner every day!

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:18:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yankees go home! (4.00 / 2)

neener.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 01:53:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yankees go home! (4.00 / 2)

You don't want to know.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:01:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yankees go home! (4.00 / 2)

Fun day on the Exchange, eh?

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yankees go home! (4.00 / 3)

After "cornering" Europe, and taking it Private, the World-Wide Engulf & Devour Corporation (Locust Division), Inc. expects to release an IPO in the New© Improved© Europe™ in the near future.

We thank you for your patience.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yankees go home! (none / 1)

Now with more layoffs!

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:21:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yankees go home! (none / 1)

Americans will agree to these conditions as soon as Europeans finish agreeing on a common identity.

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:20:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

BBC NEWS | Business | Wall Street bail-out goes to vote

The lower house of the US Congress has begun voting on a $700bn (£380bn) plan to bail out Wall Street.
President Bush has urged the House of Representatives to pass the bill - designed to end the credit crunch - and send a strong signal to the markets.
The vote comes amid further falls on global markets and as banks failed in the US, Europe and the UK.

Prepare for a rough ride, the vote has failed.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 01:50:32 PM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 7)

Dow dropped almost 700 points as the bailout heads for EPIC FAIL.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 01:58:29 PM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

This belongs in the 'No Shit, Sherlock' section of the archives.

Public opinion was running about 100 to 1 against and anyone voting for the bill would have been crucified in November.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Public opposition is impressive as everyone's 401k is going into the toilet. I wonder if it will hold up.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

By "impressive" I take it you mean "incredibly stupid?"

DOW is bouncing off it's low as I write this, down a mere 537.54.

God knows we need a bill but anyone with half a neuron knew the Bush Bill was DOA last Friday. Too much opposition from citizenry.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:22:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Just heard on sky that apparently it's all Nancy Pelosi's fault that itfailed, not sure quite how that works.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:24:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Despite Sky/Fox propagating a whole load of hooey, this might be a good one to own in hindsight.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:30:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 6)

The GOP has been trying to lay the economic situation off on the Democrats for the last year, trying to hide their actions of the previous 30.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:32:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Since the Dems have a majority and the Dem leadership sponsored the bill, it failed because the Dem whips couldn't get enough of their own people to vote for it.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Acording to the Reps, it failed because she said some unkind things about George Bush in her speach. A truly petty reason to bring Wall street to its knees don't you think?

If I was an American Voter, I'd be going round with a rope and sizing up lampposts if someone had ruined my pension due to someone saying unkind words about my leader.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 6)

Yes. Brad DeLong said the same thing. Says we should bring Congress back into session right after the election and ram through a Swedish-style nationalization.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

I consider myself as pretty disenchanted, to the point of cynicism.
But they still baffle me, almost daily.

Need to work on that jawdropping tag.

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:53:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 6)

Nah, that just refuses to pass.
I initially read your post and was just, as I said, jawdropping.
Then I tried telling my wife.
I think she understood the words, but it was a near thing. I couldn't stop laughing histerically. Even now, typing, I have to stop myself and have some nervous outbursts.

Seriously.

We are talking about a major, major financial crisis (we'll know more about the size of the economic crisis in 12 months time I guess). And on that crisis, there was a bailout plan that I saw very sensible reasons to oppose. But the point is that it was a $700 billions (at any one time -so more in total value) plan that was put to the vote.
And they had the gall to say, and I quote:
"it failed because she said some unkind things about George Bush in her speech"

I doubt I will manage to sleep much tonight. Not even from despair -I am beyond even that now. I think I will burst out laughing again. And again.

My, what have we come to.

Sorry Bob (Dylan), your haunting words will have to make way for a while:

"It failed because she said some unkind things about George Bush in her speech"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Hold onto your hysteria:

The GOP would rather take down the global financial system rather than save it and be perceived to be responsible for causing the situation.

S'help me, it's true.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

On top of all that I've just started watching their response again, aparently there was, to quote their press conference "a timetable beyond their control, clearly we had to respect the Jewish holidays this week, which meant we had to rush things"

Hope you don't have to pick your teeth off the floor when your jaw hits the floor again

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:20:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

And me who visited a (catholic) colleague on Sunday night - to help him prepare answers for a meeting where he will try to sell a consulting job.

That was just for 85k€. Do you reckon I was being disrespectful to religious people?

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

clearly we had to respect the Jewish holidays this week, which meant we had to rush things

And I thought the US was supposed to be a christian nation.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 05:07:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Sort of like Clinton saying that he's only start campaigning after the Jewish holidays. Does that make sense to anyone? I suppose we should be grateful that he didn't say Ramadan (the dates are about the same this year).

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 05:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

Hey, Ramadan ends on Wednesday with Eid, too.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 05:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

The date isn't all that certain, too.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 07:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

If this whole thing manages to take out Pelosi then we'll really know it's christmas. She's my congresswoman and I'm voting for Cindy Sheehan who is running against her in what seemed to be a quixotic bid. The rumblings around San Francisco (a town with a heap of rich people, finance, investing and a LOT of 401k money) are anti-bailout.

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:31:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

Al Jazeera English - Americas - US bail-out rejection stuns markets

John Terrett, Al Jazeera's correspondent in New York, said "I've never seen anything like this before.
"We're seeing quite literally shocking scenes on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
"People were standing around unable to know what to say to each other or what to do next ... The open-mouthed, shocked looks on the faces of the people on the stock exchange floor is something I will remember all my life.
"As the vote got going, the Dow dropped steadlily, reaching a point where it was down by more than 600 points," he said.
"Investors are reacting to the fact that this bill has failed."

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:45:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What to do next? (4.00 / 3)

Due diligence? Who dat?

jackasses.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:52:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

Rich douchebags aren't used to losing.

The ONLY thing the American people were asking in return for this bailout was to take the CEO's big bonuses. That's all. Screw a coupla hundred execs (all of whom made millions last year and will be crying themselves to sleep on their yachts tonight) and you get the bailout without any real controls.

And they fucked that up. I bet the Financial industry lobbyists are really feeling the pain today, realizing the flipside of electing idiots to do your bidding. Turns out they're too stupid to trust.

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:35:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

This is a great proof of the US government's system of checks and balances. OF COURSE this failed in the House, where every member is up for re-election next month. From what I've read the vast, vast majority of people voting for this in the House were in what are considered "safe" seats where the majority of their district is in their party. In those districts the real election is the party primary, which has already passed. Anyone facing a serious challenge can't afford to "take one for the team" politically speaking.

Senators are elected on six-year terms so only 20-30 of them are up for re-election in November. Quite a few are surely safe for the above reasons and many others are safe because state-wide elections are typically won on in-state issues or ideology rather than national issues (which is amusing since they are national officeholders but whatever...).

The President is of course the lamest duck in history with an 8-year strong track record of supporting awful and unpopular policies that typically fail.

What you are seeing is US democracy lurching back into action after an 8-year nap. This is probably the best news possible for all of us. Note that it coincides with the media doing their part. As the Bush administration's power fade everyone else's power is returning.

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:27:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Preach it, brother (none / 0)

I'm just praying the whole thing doesn't go down the toilet before things can get better.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 02:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Weee is right! (4.00 / 6)

Now that was fun.
Quick spin: once again America giving the world a lesson in Democracy.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:26:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weee is right! (4.00 / 4)

We will hear that. Coming soon to a noise box outlet near you.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weee is right! (4.00 / 9)

Well, isn't it a good thing when legislators listen to their constituents?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:41:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weee is right! (none / 1)

What you said some days ago about the good thing of having an enlighted elitist technocrat civil service to block inane popular sentiments...

Today America really showed it is a true popular democracy. And I really don't approve.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 07:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weee is right! (none / 0)

Ssshhh. The meet-up game plan is working out to the letter. You are a genius! Every possibility was covered.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:42:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weee is right! (none / 0)

Here I leave any contact with the media for a few hours to go and work in the pub and flip some burgers, and when I come back the world has gone even more insane.

God damn it! Those who have liquidity today... When the streets run with blood etc...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 07:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weee is right! (4.00 / 3)

12 minutes into the opening of Australian markets, and theres been a near3 1/2% drop in Financial stocks Australia is opening its markets in a staggered way today in fear that if they are all oened simultaneously, then the computers running the trades will fail spectacularly due to huge volumes of trades. so no Idea as to the volume ofstocks actually in play, and the actual drop as a proportion of those opened could be much worse.
Finance minister and Prime minister have been on TV reassuring people that the fundamentals of the economy etc. etc. and so on.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 08:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weee is right! (none / 0)

Forget the rest of the world, this is the US giving itself a lesson on democracy. About fucking time!

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:36:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

If it fails, I guess that "something" will still need to be done. Is anybody floating an alternative more in line with some of the stuff I've seen on the blogs that is more Main St friendly and more punitive of Wall st ?

Or are they saying there's no plan B ? If so what happens next ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Well, I am revising my proposal to create new banks for a lot less than $700 billion so as to have uncontaminated institutions that can issue commercial loans, student loans, consumer loans and new real estate loans to qualified borrowers. I am certain this will be deeply offensive to donors from existing financial institutions, but Congress and the administration has a duty to do something to prevent credit from drying up. I fail to see what about my proposal would not work.

What a concept! Use taxpayer money for something that should work and help the real economy. Then we could find out who will live and who will die out of the existing institutions. The financial sector has grown vastly too large. This will help it get smaller. If there are areas where public money can be spent for something real that has the potential to increase in value and where doing nothing will have clear and foreseeable harmful consequences, something could be done. There will be more money available for that if we haven't just flushed $700 billion trying to save doomed but politically connected institutions.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:42:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

Anyone have a good idea of the amount of loan capacity needed for the US economy to function normally?

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.

by ARGeezer (argeezer a in a circle yahoo dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:44:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Normally or properly?

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:37:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

you have figures for both?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 03:23:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

They need to recapitalise the FDIC.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

This is beautiful. Pelosi gave a speech on the floor blaming the Bush policies for putting them in this position, and the Reps wet their fucking pants.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

The FDIC is irrelevant. The entire regulatory scheme will need to be re-done to finish this. Note that Obama has stated as much whilst gamely avoiding any details.

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:38:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

One for Drew, as I know he'll like the phrasing:

OK, we are a banana republic - Paul Krugman - Op-Ed Columnist - New York Times Blog

OK, we are a banana republic
House votes no. Rex Nutting has the best line: House to Wall Street: Drop Dead. He also correctly places the blame and/or credit with House Republicans. For reasons I've already explained, I don't think the Dem leadership was in a position to craft a bill that would have achieved overwhelming Democratic support, so make or break was whether enough GOPers would sign on. They didn't.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

I think I'd be buying a big supply of Depends if I were John McCain.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:33:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

I rather disagree. In a banana republic, which we were yesterday, this thing was going to pass good or bad because everyone in power "agreed" on it.

You have to understand how important this was today, for the American voter. We've had absolutely NO say in the past 8 years. Dissent, public opinion, etc, have been ignored by both parties. Protesting in the street has accomplished zero. Everyone has known that what the Bush admin was up to (along with their Democrat enablers) was illegal and unconstitutional and our built-in mechanisms for challenging those actions were failing This was in large part because the Bush administration was politically smart enough to craft majority-popular opinions and do anything unpalatable behind closed doors (with cooperative media silence, likely achieved through intimidation).

Unfortunately for them this issue is too big to hide. Suddenly the people are remembering that if they disagree with the actions of their govt. there is a possibility that the govt. will change and act differently. The only thing more dangerous than a little bit of information is a little bit of power. The history of the US will confirm that this very process has occurred repeatedly.

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:43:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Well, a banana republic would have made the libertarians happy, finally, but they're too busy chanting "but we've never actually tried capitalism and this proves it!" over and over.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 04:44:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

It's after 2pm. I guess those trading circuits didn't kick in. Funny that.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:26:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Quite the day on wall street.

I told my dad to sell his 401k portfolio (retirement funds in the US) six months ago. He wouldn't listen. Maybe the approach should have been to talk to mom instead...

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 01:59:30 PM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Now he should just hold on to it for a few years...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

I don't know about that. Like Jerome I think we'll see the dow around 6000 in a year or two.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:09:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Not 6000 I think ;) Kraft replaced AIG. I'm not joking. I read --ok, skimmed-- the 2007 AR footnotes for application of FASB 157, 159, 149 (coulda been 147, I forget; bunch special purpose entity regulations ...) before I wrote an article re: "mark-to-market" (DCF!) valuations on balance and P&L sheets.

Industrials will come back by FYE 2009. Not that it matters so much to 401(*) contributors. Pension dependents is another story and there wasn't a PEEP in that crap bill on "insuring" employer funding of those.

Mutual fund managers will follow the daily NAV stream, because they must (unlike hedge managers) to stay in business.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

Well, more apt would be the nasdaq composite / S&P 500 / Wilshire indexes etc.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Well, the way I see the field of financial products ... my choices are between low return and low return with risk of manager-induced insolvency, in other words, fed funds rate for a long time for the vast majority of "investors." That doesn't mean *normal profits, but it would not be so bad for savers if the US Treasury manages its general fund to minimize currency inflation, ironically. The important consideration as always is knowing exactly how one's fund managers "invest" one's money. No pie chart reports! NO PIE CHARTS!

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by MarketTrustee (pbing@estudioinc.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

At some point you have to stand back and say, "Take a Lesson."

For three years I've been a real pest, hounding all my friends, acquaintances, and family to get the hell out of dollar instruments and into Euro AAA rated Money Market Funds.

Those who bothered to listen have doubled their money.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:29:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Anyone keeping track of the Financial Sector?

If their stock price collapses that will hose their ratios and drive more banks & etc. into receivership.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:24:45 PM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

Whose stock price?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:45:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

The sector as a whole.

Don't know enough about the individual companies, anymore, to focus analysis.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

A lot of banks are taking a big hit. BoA's off over 10%, for example. PNC had been in the green all day, now off 2%.

I'd imagine the TED spread is going to continue its march upwards.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Hmmm.

BoA online banking just quit working - NB: probably just my local connection or at least I hope so.

by melvin on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

My BofA online banking working fine...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Financial stocks are significantly higher than their July lows which occurred right before the first bailout. BAC was all the way down to $20, even after today's (not yet complete) bloodbath it is sitting at $32.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

Any bank that survives this will emerge much stronger. There has already been a massive realignment in the financial sector. Most of the big money in the markets is short-term so even if they all know that BofA is going to do well two years from now they can't afford to take the performance hit this quarter so they sell off BofA at a number which enables them to buy something else that will boost their portfolios.

The more you understand the real mechanisms behind the financial markets the more you realize that it's not the total numbers that matter (aside from how the influence sentiment) but rather the actions of institutional investors.

by paving on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 01:48:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

I track SKF (financial sector short fund). Since the first bailout the sector has mostly followed the broader market. Previous to that, peaking with IndyMac's collapse, the sector was heading straight into doom territory.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:39:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Thanks MillMan.

That is extremely interesting.

If they are following the broader market why did the Bush administration push the PANIC! button? And kick-off this whole to-do?

That's not a rhetorical question ... I don't understand.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Well, the sector is still on a long trend downward, starting from early 2007. And it's probably more accurate to say the broader market is following the financial sector. I'll leave the rest to the smarter guys around here...

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:37:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

the smarter guys around here

That´s a huge act of faith, but even the smarter people cannot make good decisions with bad, or corrupted information. Choose the monkey?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 05:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 0)

I have to pin my worldview to something as my being doesn't have the ability to perfectly simulate the universe. All I can do is tack it to the narrative I find most convincing.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 06:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Corners (4.00 / 2)

France is often called "l'hexagone" due to its passing resemblance with, well, an hexagon. Then you have mixed expressions about people coming from the "4 corners of the hexagon" which can be rather funny...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:35:10 PM EST

Re: Corners (none / 1)

Need to get Migeru to do a topological analysis. (Me, I don't do topos.)

Well known fact that the measurement of the borders of France is fractal. Maybe the geometry of France is as well?

;-)

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:47:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

I have the flag of Cornwall over the dining table. Does that count?

It used to be possible to drive to Vancouver or ferry to Victoria BC and pretend you were in Europe. Lately it feels much more like you are in Hong Kong. These cities somehow never seemed to notice they were in North America.

by melvin on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:58:15 PM EST

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (none / 0)

BLOOD!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 02:59:50 PM EST

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (4.00 / 2)

3:15 EST DOW down 620 and counting. 700 anyone?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (none / 0)

Looks like it's settling down at 750 for the day.

Stay tuned for the rest of the week, after some Jew day.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:15:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (4.00 / 4)

778.

NASDAQ dropped 9%. S&P 9%. Dow 7%.

Largest point-drop in history.

Wow.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:45:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (4.00 / 6)

yes the biggest point drop, but apparently (cavuto) not even in the top ten of percentage day drops.

the american people called paulson's bluff, and showed grit, preferring a smaller crash now, than a larger one later, (with paulson's henchmen making off with unaccountable billions meanwhile).

nice to see that enough populist thrust still has the power to affect congressional votes so handily.

well done america, you stirred from your apolitical slumber, as the robbers' sheer greedy gall set off some dormant alarm still active.

the people are still clueless as to how huge this is, but they had the shrewdness to know that if they went ahead and enabled these blackguards to keep their not-so-merry-go-round any longer, their descendants would be shovelling around their school lunch money in wheelbarrows!

now they're nattering on about how the problem was they called it a 'bailout', when it was really an 'investment' that could have even one day , maybe, yes m-a-y-b-e they might turn a profit off it when the markets bounce up again!

have another swig of kook-aide, pass it round!

Peace is not the absence of war -- peace is the absence of fear. Ursula Franklin

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 05:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (4.00 / 3)

melo:

now they're nattering on about how the problem was they called it a 'bailout', when it was really an 'investment' that could have even one day, maybe, yes m-a-y-b-e they might turn a profit off it when the markets bounce up again!

Would anyone like to buy a genuine Rolex?

I think we could be out of bridges for the moment.

I don't care any more. I have a packet of crisps, a mug of yogi tea, and a laptop running Max/MSP.

Life is pretty good, actually.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 06:24:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (none / 1)

Was it limited by the vote happening so late in the trading day? and should we prepare for an express elevator ride down tomorrow?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 06:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (none / 1)

No idea, honestly.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Tue Sep 30th, 2008 at 07:14:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The FUN has just BEGUN! (none / 0)

Show Me A Market Crash this week!

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

As a side effect of the financial crisis, oil again dropped $10 in one day. I wonder which has more effect on the EU economy: the capital elimination on Wall Street, the loss of trust also hitting European banks, or this.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:10:47 PM EST

Re: Monday Open Thread (none / 1)

Hey, maybe that will take gas prices here down another few yen/litre. I've gotta drive up north in a few days to help move a friend to my town. Gas is already substantially cheaper than it was over the summer, 160/liter versus 185/liter, but I'd be really happy if it dropped down into the 150's.

by Zwackus on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 06:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Comment from Forbes.com (4.00 / 5)

Woo-hoo! I've had more than enough socialist policies from D.C. The feds need to repeal the laws & regulations that set this problem up and move away from controlling the economy.

article

I wonder where this guy gets his information from...

by dahuk (dahuk . hiddenborder @ com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:37:40 PM EST

Re: Comment from Forbes.com (4.00 / 3)

Hey, dahuk! Welcome back!

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:55:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Comment from Forbes.com (4.00 / 4)

Thanks, although I never actually left. I've been avidly lurking, which I suppose is a bit voyeuristic of me.

I'd like to contribute constructively a bit more in the future, despite my first comment after logging in again. :p

by dahuk (dahuk . hiddenborder @ com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Comment from Forbes.com (none / 1)

<Psst melanchthon you too! look email!>

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 04:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Monday Open Thread (4.00 / 6)

I haz little potz.

He haz big, byootifulz!

Mebbe beween us we all eats.

[parts 2 and 3]

by Loefing on Mon Sep 29th, 2008 at 03:53:06 PM EST

EU impact diary short (4.00 / 11)

A short diary in a comment.

Impact of Wall Street elimination in Europe.

Good:

-Oil drops..Hugely Good!!!!
-Spain banks (Botin in particular) buys Wall Street : Excellent Botin can turn companies into profit after being lead by crazy nuts (see Banesto in wiki for those wanting to know more)
-unregualte, unregulate news is over over over. no money -> no propaganda -> no mercenaries of the media.
-US loses complete control (if it had any) of Asia, South-America and Wester Europe.. maybe even has to close military stations in Europe... Excellent
-Multipolar finance world.. Excellent for Europe.
-Dollar out, euro in.. great. I hope we never forget it is temporary and treat the euro with respect

Problems.

-Short term for Spain and Ireland.... are the chinese ready to invest after the doll