European Tribune

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch - 4. October

by Fran
Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:50:00 PM EST

On this date in history:

1928 - Torben Ulrich, a Danish writer, musician, filmmaker, and former tennis pro, was born.

More here and here


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EUROPE
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:50:41 PM EST
Putin accuses Ukraine of assisting Georgia during war - International Herald Tribune

NOVO-OGARYOVO, Russia: Prime Minister Vladimir Putin of Russia on Thursday accused Ukraine of having sent weapons and military personnel to assist Georgia during its war with Russia.

The accusation came as Russia announced a memorandum of understanding for handling natural gas sales to Ukraine after Putin met with the Ukrainian prime minister, Yulia Tymoshenko.

The timing of the Russian prime minister's statements underscores a drive in Moscow to increase its leverage in Ukraine, a former Soviet republic.

Without referring to the Ukrainian president by name, Putin suggested that President Viktor Yushchenko had authorized weapons supplies to Georgia before and during Russia's war there in August. He also said that Ukrainian military personnel had fought on Georgia's side during the conflict.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Crimean Power Struggle: Russia and Ukraine Jockey in the Black Sea - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

The naval fleets of Russia and Ukraine share the port at Sevastopol on the Crimean Peninsula. Some in Russia would like the Ukrainian city to return to the Russian fold. Many fear that a spark here could quickly lead to a larger conflagration.

It is early morning deep inside the missile cruiser Moskva, where the heat and the stench of diesel fuel are the most oppressive, as the lower ranks emerge from their five-bed cabins. Below decks, the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet feels like a prison tract with cell walls made of gray-painted steel.

The sailors march up the stairs for morning roll call. At 7:43 a.m. sharp, officers and seamen stand at attention on the upper deck, in rows three deep, between cigar-shaped missile shafts and launching pads for anti-aircraft missiles, while the division commander inspects the formation. "We salute the Comrade Rear Admiral," the troops shout. The commanding officer replies: "At ease."

Here on Quay 14 in Sevastopol's Holland Harbor, the Russian navy is ready for battle once again, at least judging by what Rear Admiral Andrei Baranov, the deputy commander of the Russian Black Sea fleet, has to say. The recent operation in Georgian waters was a brief act of "self-defense," says Baranov, adding that additional combat missions are not on the agenda at this point. Nevertheless, he is quick to add, the Black Sea has undoubtedly become a "hot spot", and "we are, of course, obligated to protect our citizens in case of emergency."

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:01:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bailouts Multiply as Crisis Continues, But Can They Really Help? | Business | Deutsche Welle | 03.10.2008
As the US bailout plan is put to a revote, the EU is haggling over a large-scale rescue deal of its own after several European banks were saved this week. Just how similar are the plans -- and will they help?

The banking crisis spread to Germany this week when the German government offered a lifeline to commercial mortgage lender Hypo Real Estate as it teetered on the verge of collapse.

The news came on the same day that the United States House of Representatives failed to pass the $700 billion (500 billion-euro) bailout plan proposed by Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson. That plan has since been approved by the Senate, with a few alterations, including up to $100 billion in tax break extensions for middle class families and businesses.

The German government has come up with a similar plan to bail out Hypo Real Estate, albeit a slightly less expensive one. On Thursday, the European Commission gave the go-ahead for the 35 billion-euro deal.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:53:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No EU Bailout: Europe Bids Adieu to Common Financial Crisis Approach - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

The idea of an EU rescue fund to address financial crisis symptoms in Europe is off the table. A summit meeting on Saturday of Europe's largest economies may end up being little more than a sharing of national strategies.

AP

Europe may not be interested in a common financial crisis strategy after all. For a while this week, it looked as though the European Union was preparing to come up with a bloc-wide response to the growing financial crisis. On the eve of a mini-summit in France to discuss a possible strategy, however, a consensus seems to be emerging that the piecemeal approach European countries have been using to confront specific threats may be good enough.

Indeed, with France and Germany both distancing themselves from an apparently Dutch plan to set up a €300 billion ($415 billion) EU rescue fund, it is unclear just what Saturday's meeting -- which will see leaders from France, Germany, Italy and Britain meet in Paris along with European Central Bank head Jean-Claude Trichet and Luxembourg Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker -- might accomplish. Plus, according to a Thursday evening report published on the Web site of the Financial Times, EU countries not attending the meeting have said the select group has no authority to take decisions for the entire 27-member bloc.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:54:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
After years of blocking meaningful reform that would have organised markets on a Europe-wide basis, they dare complain that Europe doesn't respond? Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL.  Chinese leaders must be slapping their heads at the irony.

Berlin Opposes New EU Anti-Discrimination Laws | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 03.10.2008

The measure proposes setting up "Equality Bodies" in all member states to which a sufferer of discrimination could complain before pursuing a possible court action.

For example, a lettings agency could be sued in court if it denied an apartment to homosexuals. Von der Leyen, however, maintained that no new EU regulations were necessary.

"We believe that Germany has created a very high level of protection," she said.

But the EU Commission thinks that Germany still needs to beef up protections against discrimination in terms of the housing market. According to the recommendations put forth in July all professional rental agencies should be subject to the anti-discrimination regulations. Under the current rules in Germany, they "usually" only apply to renters who have more than 50 properties to rent out.

However, [German Family Minister Ursula] von der Leyen refused to discuss the content of the draft legislation. The real question here is: "Should Europe meddle in national affairs or not?" said the minister.   



Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 08:24:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Snap.  That was supposed to go under here.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 08:25:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
UK authorities act to shore up financial system | Deals | Mergers & Acquisitions | Reuters

LONDON (Reuters) - British authorities announced three separate initiatives on Friday to get the cogs of the financial system turning again.

None of them was as sweeping as the $700 billion bailout proposed by the United States or the blanket guarantees offered in Ireland, but they underlined Britain's acknowledgement of the gravity of the crisis and the need for action.

Britain's Financial Services Authority (FSA) raised the compensation limit for savings to 50,000 pounds ($88,390) per customer claim from 35,000 pounds, after signs bank customers were withdrawing cash to put into perceived safe havens.

The higher limit will take effect from next week and could be further increased as regulators battle to restore confidence in the banking sector.

The Bank of England announced it would extend the range of collateral it accepts at its weekly three-month cash auctions to include some highly-rated corporate and consumer loans -- just the sort of stuff that has been clogging up bank balance sheets.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:18:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dutch part of Fortis is nationalised - Times Online

The break up of Fortis began today when the Dutch Government bought the Belgo-Dutch financial group's Netherlands operations in a €16.8 billion (£13 billion) rescue deal. The company is already partially state-owned, after the governments of Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg each took a stake in Fortis at the weekend at a cost of €11.2 billion.

The new agreement, hammered out on Thursday night after talks between the three governments, came after stock markets closed. Fortis shares ended the day down 0.79 per cent at €5.42 on Euronext.

Wouter Bos, the Dutch Finance Minister, described the deal as an "extraordinary intervention" made necessary after Fortis's funding difficulties worsened during the week.

Yves Leterme, the Belgian Prime Minister, admitted yesterday that the decision to offload the Dutch banking and insurance business on the Dutch Government was necessary to keep the bank afloat. "This measure is temporary: once the international financial system has settled, the institutions will be privatised," the Government said in a statement.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:21:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Expect a lot more nationalisations to come.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:35:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this a GOOD thing, a BAD thing, or a WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE thing?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!
by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 10:35:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Russia expects to restart EU talks this month - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - Moscow has expressed confidence that talks on a new EU-Russia partnership treaty - temporarily put on ice due to Russia's military presence in Georgia - could be resumed in October.

"We are certainly looking forward to the resumption of negotiations ... I see no reason why this should not happen before the end of this month," Russian ambassador to the EU Vladimir Chizhov said on Thursday (2 October).

Moscow - mending ties with Germany and hoping to restart EU talks

EU leaders agreed on 1 September to postpone talks on an EU-Russia strategic deal until Russian troops withdraw from Georgia's territory to lines held before the short war over South Ossetia erupted in August.

According to Mr Chizhov, the condition, part of an EU-brokered peace plan, is being "successfully implemented" and all Russian troops will return to previous positions before 10 October.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brussels maternity leave plan sparks controversy - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - European women should get a minimum of 18 weeks of maternity leave paid at the full level of their previous salary, the EU executive has suggested.

The move comes as part of a package of the European Commission's proposals aiming to help people balance their professional and family life.

Brussels argues the new rules would improve the family life of Europeans

The new legislation "will help women to combine work and family life, improving their and their family's quality of life," EU social affairs commissioner Vladimir Spidla told journalists as he was presenting the package in Brussels on Friday (3 October).

Under the proposal, there would be an extension of maternity leave from fourteen to eighteen weeks across the member states, with the current period varying from 14 weeks in Germany to 28 weeks in the Czech Republic and Slovakia, with the possibility of extending it to 52 weeks in some countries.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | EU plans longer maternity leave

The European Commission has proposed extending fully-paid maternity leave from 14 weeks to 18 weeks.

The commission, the EU's executive, also said the same maternity benefits should apply to self-employed women.

The commission said longer maternity leave would encourage women to return to work after having children.

Critics have said small businesses will struggle to meet the costs and that national governments should decide on such matters, not the EU.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the complaints seem to come from the business world. Why do we listen to them, again?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:36:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EUobserver

Some critics suggest the proposed measure could turn against women as they would potentially represent higher costs for their employers.

But Mr Spidla dismissed such arguments, saying "It would be only a small fraction of what is currently being offered in aid to banks," in a reference to the latest consequences of the global financial crisis.


Politically clever retort by Spidla. But it seems this is a problem with the bill - it is not comprehensive enough. There should also be an equivalent paternity leave.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 06:13:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Saying some critics argue is not even up to Wikipedia standards... [Citation needed]!!!

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 06:19:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is pretty clear that this will put pressure on women's salaries relative to men's.

The comparison with the current bail out of banks is utter nonsense, as the bail out is paid for by the gov't while most of the costs of the maternity leave remain with the company, which employs the mother.

Your suggestion of a paternity leave would be a drastic and absolutely unacceptable cutting of freedom (given you make it mandatory, already now men like women can leave a company for three years (unpaid) and retain the right to get their old job back). If not mandatory, it won't eliminate the pressure on the relative salaries (and employment chances) of women.
In Germany it are feminist groups, which try to reduce similar kinds of benefits, that already exist for that reason. Good that the commission doesn't follow such approaches, but I think it should be a national thing, there is not much won, by having the same rules for maternity leave all over Europe.

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 06:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I disagree that there is not enough of a European angle. All forms of labour market regulation have European aspects, and Europe-wide minimal rules for them are appropriate.

As for 'freedom', I think that most fathers will like it. And there's a lot to be said for eliminating this difference in terms of fairness.

Something like the Swedish system would be good.

Parental leave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sweden is one country which provides generous parental leave: all working parents are entitled to 18 months paid leave per child, the cost being shared between employer and State. To encourage greater paternal involvement in child-rearing, a minimum of 3 months out of the 18 is required to be used by the "minority" parent, in practice usually the father, and some Swedish political parties on the Left argue for legislation to oblige families to divide the 18 months equally between both parents.

Adding that a certain measure of flexibility in term of placing the days, and in terms of full-time or part-time leave - as exists in Sweden - would be necessary.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 07:38:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These minimal rules then surely should be minimal, e.g. should not be arbitrarily decided, but founded on a good explaination. So far I have not seen any kind of 'run to the bottom' in general parenthood-leave programs. While e.g. in corporate taxes and captial gains taxes such a 'run to the bottom' obviously exists without anything done about it. More over the complaint about the existing rules, have little to do with competition between EU countries, but to do with competition between women and men in the same country or even the same position. There only excessive violations of the freedom to contracting (which I consider as more important) prevent disadvantages.

Without freedom democracy is a totalitarian event, a tyranny of the majority, and your argument most fathers like will like it, is not at all a justification to make something mandatory. If really most fathers like it, then it should be enough to allow them to take a fatherhood holiday. In so far you want only that, this makes sense.

In Germany the same as in Sweden just with 12 months + 2 months was introduced, but, as I'm sure in Sweden, too, it is not mandatory to take that time. In so far a possibility to leave and retain the workplace exists already for men, here, but not with full payment. Families are strongly burdend in Germany, and in principal improvements are good, but what is needed mostly is cash for all, not to have a combined 36 weeks (18 weeks taken by each parent) full paid leave for every child for some, and nothing for others (like self employed people, whose business would simply go down, when they leave for a long term, otherwise very important or unemployed people)

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 08:41:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It will not surprise you that while the EU can deal with much of labour market regulation by majority decision but needs unanimity in the Council on tax issues.

I disagree that the only time rules should be harmonised is when there's a case of countries lowering regulation to gain competitive advantage. The common market can also cause inertia in social policies when change is needed to deal with new challenges (such as a demographic downturn). And as Cyrille notes, there are other European aspects like freedom of location in the labour market.

If you only allow fathers to take this then you set up a potential (further) point of conflict between them and their employers. Maternity leave is not optional either, as far as I know. The only point of this freedom, for the men's side, is to retain a comparative advantage in the labour market over women (or retain parity with singles).

As for providing more money to parents, sure, though I would say Germany needs to spend equal attention to providing some things (e.g. day care) for free.

What I wanted to lift out of the Swedish example is that you could have some flexibility in how to divide the 36 weeks (e.g. provide a minimum of 14 weeks per partner). Otherwise, I don't know whether and to what extent the 18 months in Sweden are optional. But there's something to be said for a mix of optional unpaid leave and mandatory paid leave.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 06:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maternity leave is not optional either, as far as I know.
This is for the protection of the health of both the mother and the child. The time of the forced leave should take medical considerations as main aspect. Wrt Germany, the commission's suggestion would even increase this time for mothers. Further parential time should be volunatarily.

The idea of thinking of groups women against men is collectivist in my view and irrelevant. Your suggestions creates more equality between men and women on a statistical basis, but create huge problems for parents compared to people without children. To tell a fresh mother, not only she has damaged her career, but the career of her husband, too, is not exactly something she will appreciate, even if the profiteer in her husbands company is a woman.
Situations are different from family to family, but often fresh fathers work more than before, to get extra pay for extra hours. This possibility would be taken away completely.
As well currently many women expect, that family plans are coordinated with their career plannings, as there are times, when a leave fits better, and times, when it fits worse. With a forced paternity leave, every couple would have to consider both careers carefully. Already now university educated people have less children in Germany, and probably in most European countries, than none-academics. This last aspect of a inhomogenous career is especially a problem for high qualified people, who have something one can reasonably call a career. Academic women are more over disproportionally in jobs like teaching and other public jobs, where a leave has less negative effect than academic men, so that this fit-to-career planning would have to be increased.

As for providing more money to parents, sure, though I would say Germany needs to spend equal attention to providing some things (e.g. day care) for free.
I'm fundamentally opposed to free day care. This is an assault on the classical family. That is not freedom to chose between staying at home and letting care for the children, when one decision is subsidiesed with hundreds of Euros per month and the other not. Parents should be free in such a decision, but I personally would of course favour the model of the classical family over unsymbiotic forms of family live.
And of course plenty of proprietary and organic solutions may be there, which can only be applied from case to case like caring grandparents, neighbours, telework, workplace built-in-childcare, or even a nanny ,into which is not tapped by any one-size-fits-it-all assumption.

Given that in Germany well-off families with children are strongly overtaxed relative to none-children tax payers, and that the budgets are negotiated with a certain focus on previous budgets, so that childcare is in confilct with any direct monetary payments to parents, it means parents with differnt solutions are the ones who practically pay for those, who send their children to child-care or for extended parential leave (especially the paid one, as classical families will not get a cent for their second or third or fourth child for the paid maternity leave).

when change is needed to deal with new challenges (such as a demographic downturn)
If this measures are ultimatively not financed by taking it from elsewhere than from families, these suggestions will make the demographic challenges more pronounced than the current challenges. And the demographic challenges are different in various countries. E.g. I don't see any need to stimulate fertility in most west European countries, while the Balitic states face a population implosion. One answer to these very different countries is not the right answer, regardless how this answer looks like.

The only point of this freedom
Freedom is a value by itself, and therefore the default. You need a substancial cause to diminish it.

, for the men's side, is to retain a comparative advantage in the labour market over women (or retain parity with singles).
As I wrote, there are other considerations than pure men-women issues. It is a point, but not the only.

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Oct 5th, 2008 at 10:58:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interesting comment - however, you seem to argue mostly about mothers with choice, who are in relationships and who have family to help them. What about the single mothers, who can not afford day care and still have to work? What about those women with no family - and yes, the do exist! As we have discussed before, it is often the single mother that ends up in poverty. So, I do think if we want women to choose to become mothers, avoid abortions, we also need to give them a support system that will help them to provide a caring environment for the child. This is now often not the case.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Oct 5th, 2008 at 11:07:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Instead of free day care, you can pay out cash. The full costs of one month 'free' child care are between 500 and 1000 Euro, depending of course on the rent/purchase price of appropriate facilities, which differs regionally.
Then people can decide what they want to do with that cash. As you anyhow need a high care-personal/children ration in low age day care, it can be provided by private companies sufficiently flexible to the needs of parents, who are willing to pay. A single mother would get by this the chance at all to chose e.g. a part time job, instead of a full time job which would be her only choice if there is free day-care, but no cash pay out.
With regard to the discussion of paid parential leaves, the consideration of child poverty would be an argument to make payments of fixed amounts of money, or even paying extra cash for the poorest families, not a payment proportional to former income, after the medically advisable leave, which clearly should be paid according to income. Further payments of this type I see clearly as a sign, that the fight is about feminist ideology and not about solidarity with the poor. an alternative explaination is the despise of people with low income as expressed by such a word as "Frühförderungsabschreckungsprämie" (see last penultimate paragraph, I guess you speak German living in Switzerland)  from Christa Sager, vice head of the green faction in the Budestag, which says, she doesn't believe that low income people act according to what is best for their children and parents in general are incapable to educate their low age children (despite the totally crappy education of most public child care nannys in Germany).

I don't think it is fair, to compare a significant subsidy with no action at all, but with alternative possible actions with similar costs for the public, which is not entirely composed of single mothers and multi-child families. There are plenty of people without children or only one child, which often is not such a drag on the family finances as many children. A fair solution for single mothers shouldn't ask only a fraction of the society for solidarity, but the whole society according to some form of ability to bear such a financial burden. Otherwise next time an employer might argue it is immoral to pay workers wage increases, because in China workers get less, and in Africa there are even people staving.

So, I do think if we want women to choose to become mothers,
In Germany women have in average a more pronounced wish for children than men. I'm not sure why, but there is an obvious lack of public discussion, while there is not only discussion, but even academic research, why women don't have more children. A rather common answer of child-less women with a wish for children is, that they don't find the right man for a family foundation.
Another issue is, that compared with child-rich countries like France, Germany lacks mostly many multi-child families. There are not much more child-free families. If financial considerations play a role, this is not a surprise, given the institutional framework of taxes, retirement, and pay outs. The proposed changes consolidate the existing structure or focus on women without children - often for reasons, which have nothing to do with finance -, instead of focusing on multi-child families, where financial considerations play an increasing role, as the finacial burden kicks them out of a live-style lived by there child-poor peers.
France has e.g. a strongly increased child pay for the 3rd child and a family tax splitting, which is often ignored in discussions in Germany, when taking France as good example. They have much of these other stuff as well, but France simply invests a higher share of its resources into the support of families than many other countries.

PS:
Two spiegel Articles (German), which question the quality of the German school system. Unfortunately I have nothing online about the low-age child care quality:
"Wohlfühl-Kuschel-Pädagogik geht Jungs gewaltig auf die Nerven"
Triumph der Schmetterlinge

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Sun Oct 5th, 2008 at 01:47:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Martin: ... the bail out is paid for by the gov't while most of the costs of the maternity leave remain with the company, which employs the mother.

Since paternity/maternity leave is a social benefit, should it not be the state -- rather than the parent(s)' particular employer -- who pays for it?

Not only would it be take a huge amount of pressure off the employer, but it would be a lot easier for the state to afford it than the individual employer.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 08:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, that would probably be a reasonable change in those countries, which have currently the employer paying. I guess in Germany it stems partially from the use of rules originally made for illness in case of a pregnancy.

But the leave of a qualified person for time period of a couple of months is in any case a high cost, as you may need a replacement, who is willing to fill in for a short time and isn't needed afterwards. For qualified people this is usually either impossible or very expensive.

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 08:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
marco:
Since paternity/maternity leave is a social benefit, should it not be the state -- rather than the parent(s)' particular employer -- who pays for it?

Norwegian women/men are entitled to maternity/paternity leave of 12 months with 80% pay, or 10 months with full pay (paid for by the government). Fathers are entitled to take almost all of that leave instead of the mother, and  must take at least four weeks out.  

BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Norway's welfare model 'helps birth rate'

Birth rates in the European Union are falling fast.

 

by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 09:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I must admit I can't make any sense of your arguments so I probably misunderstood them.

Or maybe you are being sarcastic.

What cutting of freedom? Where was it suggested that fathers or mothers would be forced to take paternity leave? If it was not argued, then I don't see where the mandatory issue is.

On the other hand, I can see a very good case to make it mandatory, since it is an illusion to pretend that employees and employers are always in an equal bargaining position. If the employer can pressurize the employee into not taking his days off (I know it happens in the States), then making them mandatory is a protection on the employee. But then again, this argument has perfect symetry between man and woman.

There is a lot to be gained by having similar conditions within an area with free movement of workers and goods. The difference in conditions is a serious factor in deciding to move to another country.

All in all, I am struck by your statement that "Your suggestion of a paternity leave would be a drastic and absolutely unacceptable cutting of freedom "

What next? Shall we revolt against holidays? Or that we are forced to accept our salary at the end of the month? Should we complain against the availability of breathable air?
Could we please keep the notion of drastic and absolutely unacceptable cutting of freedom for things that actually deserve it? If not, we'll be out of ways to describe things them when they truly happen.

"The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 03:14:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This really sounds like talking from a textbook and unfortunately real life has very extensive and different consequences that require experience and must be taken into account.  Let's not judge so quickly.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 07:28:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | Europe | EU plans longer maternity leave

Maternity leave currently varies from 14 weeks in Germany to 18 months in Sweden, with many countries offering less than 18 weeks.


AFP: EU seeks more time out for working mothers

Germany has already criticised the proposals, with family affairs minister Ursula von der Leyen saying they would "increase financial risks for employers who hire young women."

She said the conditions would have a "boomerang" effect and prove to be a handicap for young women looking for jobs.


EUobserver - Brussels maternity leave plan sparks controversy
Moreover, Brussels advocates introducing a new principle of full pay during the maternity leave, while allowing an exception for countries to set a ceiling that could not be lower than the rates for sick pay.

The move has sparked controversy in countries with less generous arrangements.


Some graphs from a very useful 2005 comparative study by the International Labor Organisation:

Clearly, some European countries are running at the back of the table - within Europe - in several aspects.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 07:48:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I wonder which?

Maybe their co-linguists in the Americas are driving those charts to look somewhere betzeen Africa and Asia.

"C'est un scandale !"

by redstar on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 10:16:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe Urged to Protect Innocent Guantanamo Detainees | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 03.10.2008
The Council of Europe has urged European governments to protect Guantanamo Bay detainees who have been cleared of terrorist links but who risk persecution when they return home.

In a statement on their Web site, the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly (PACE) said it was worried about the fate of Guantanamo detainees who have been cleared of all suspicion of terrorist activity, but who cannot return to their home countries because they would risk persecution.

The statement continued by urging European governments, who have called on the US to shut down the detention center for terrorist suspects in Guantanamo Bay, "to let deeds follow their words and provide humanitarian protection for detainees who cannot return to their home countries."

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:58:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nicolas Sarkozy: French media faces 'death' without reform - Telegraph
President Nicolas Sarkozy of France has warned that the French press faces "death" unless it comes up with new ways to compete with multimedia and free rivals.

French newspapers are among the least profitable in Europe, with combined daily circulation figures of 8 million - half that of Britain.

Sporting daily l'Equipe and regional paper Ouest France are the most read. Their combined turnover plunged from 1.145billion euros (£897 million) in 2000 to 848 million euros (£664 million) last year, according to a recent parliamentary report.

Prestigious daily Le Monde has seen strikes and lay-offs, as has the conservative Le Figaro, while there have been takeovers at left-wing Liberation and the business titles La Tribune and Les Echos.

Meanwhile, internet news and freesheets like Metro and 20 Minutes are now the country's most read media.

Magazines are faring slightly better, with women's weeklies and glossy gossip titles doing well.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, the reform Sarkozy is pushing is "increased concentration" - that is, even more media for a few Sarko friends.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 07:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...and expect even more restrictions on freedom of speech, especially on non-corporate media, not to mention increased police surveillance (Edvige anyone?).

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 05:36:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Albanians adjust to Italy, in unlikeliest of places - International Herald Tribune

CHIUSI, Italy: On a crisp fall morning just after Ramadan, Hysen and Kimete Murrizi stood side by side in a Tuscan vineyard, snipping fat bunches of grapes into red plastic buckets.

They worked their way quickly down a sloping hillside, picking grapes for Chianti, after having spent days selecting smaller grapes for more refined wines. On the nearby highway, passing truckers honked in a harvest greeting.

The Murrizis are among tens of thousands of Albanians who arrived in Italy in the 1990s after the collapse of their country's Communist dictatorship and economy. That they should become skilled vineyard workers is somewhat incongruous because Murrizi is an observant Muslim who fasted for Ramadan and does not drink alcohol.

She acknowledged the culture clash. "Yes," Murrizi said with a warm smile in fluent Italian. "But that's the way it is. Unfortunately I have to work. Life is like that."

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Trade commissioner Mandelson resigns - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - In a surprise move, European Union trade commissioner Peter Mandelson is to leave his position with the EU's executive and take up the position of secretary of state for business in UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown's reshuffled cabinet.

Mr Mandelson, a longtime antagonist of Mr Brown's faction within the UK Labour Party, has been asked to return to London to help the prime minister grapple with the current financial crisis.

Commissioner Mandelson is to rejoin the UK cabinet

Having twice resigned from the UK government under the cloud of corruption allegations, Mr Mandelson is reportedly to be offered a peerage so he may sit at the cabinet table.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brown to bring Mandelson back to British Cabinet - International Herald Tribune

LONDON: Britain's beleaguered prime minister, Gordon Brown, reshuffled part of his cabinet on Friday, stunning many political analysts by rehabilitating his onetime nemesis, Peter Mandelson, who resigned twice in scandalous circumstances from the previous government of Tony Blair.

Mandelson is currently the European Union's trade commissioner. He was expected to re-enter the British government as the minister for business, the BBC reported. The European Commission in Brussels declined to comment. Speaking outside 10 Downing Street, Mandelson told reporters that he was "very proud to have been invited to serve" in Brown's government.

The move by 10 Downing Street was doubly surprising because of Mandelson's record in government and the political allegiances that got him there.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:07:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mr Mandelson is reportedly to be offered a peerage so he may sit at the cabinet table.

not being an MP I thinkits the only way he can have a cabinet position.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Correct.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
FT.com | Westminster Blog | Newsflash: Paul Myners to be City minister

City heavy hitter Paul Myners is replacing Kitty Ussher as City minister.

Myners, chairman of Guardian Media Group and chair of the Low Pay Commission, is also a director of GLG Partners (a hedge fund) and Land Securities, a property company.

He was a donor to Brown's leadership campaign in 2007 and has also been a trustee of the Smith Institute, a Labour-supporting think tank.

This is part of an all-out move to present Labour as the party of business: thus the appointment of three business "ambassadors" (Lord Browne, Sir John Bond, Mervyn Davies), the return of Mandelson and the creation of a new energy/climate change department under Ed Miliband.



When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:15:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Grauniad:
chair of the Low Pay Commission, is also a director of GLG Partners (a hedge fund) and Land Securities, a property company.

No - no irony there at all.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What a wonderful sign of entering the 21st century. Can we take bets on how many times he will resign from a Brown cabinet?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:37:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gordo seems to be harking back quite deliberately to the Blairite glory days.

What's that phrase again? - oh yes - 'Epic Fail'.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:45:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmm... this is curious. Being external trade commissioner in this period - where the Commission is only on duty for another year and no Doha deal is in sight - is probably not such a daunting task. Better to be in the UK, especially as Mandelson had already stated that he wouldn't try to get another term. But I wonder how Mandelson's experience would be something no one else in the Labour party can match. The ranks must run thin.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 06:21:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe he wants to be back to fight the Miliband threat.

Is Mandelson the Anounted One?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 06:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mandelson is supposedly a Blairite. But while whatever behind the scenes poker scenario might be plausible, I want to point to the plausibility of the surface story. It's said that there is no one with the equivalent abilities within the labour party. Think about what that would mean.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 06:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They've run out of spin doctors?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 05:26:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yikes!!!!!  PM?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 07:35:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're all two steps ahead of me. I dig Mig's reply, and there may well be some truth to it. Basically, what I'm saying is that at this point the Labour Party is an organisation with rather limited human resources. I don't doubt that they have some members that might be better. But it's likely that those don't want to come forward because the Brown government has become toxic. So, you get a rule of dilletantes with questionable competence and/or large flaws in terms of their public ethics.

It's a very real kind of rot. And it's self-reinforcing.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 08:08:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seven Russian Soldiers Killed in South Ossetia Blast | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 03.10.2008
Seven Russian soldiers were killed and seven others wounded in an apparent car bombing in Georgia's breakaway region of South Ossetia on Friday, Russian news agencies reported.

The blast took place in the South Ossetian capital Tskhinvali, next to a Russian army installation, reported Interfax news agency, citing South Ossetian authority sources.

The powerful blast damaged the Russian infantry building and blew out windows in surrounding structures up to a half a kilometer away, Interfax reported.

Officials in the rebel province said the incident occurred after a suspect automobile was confiscated from Georgian citizens by Russian soldiers. The four-wheel-drive vehicle turned out to be packed with explosives and blew up near the soldiers' military base.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:04:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Berlin Opposes New EU Anti-Discrimination Laws | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 03.10.2008
Back in July, the European Commission proposed new EU-wide anti-discrimination legislation. While several of the member states are in favor of more EU control, others, including Germany, aren't so sure.

German Family Minister Ursula von der Leyen spoke out against the strengthening of current EU regulations in this area during a meeting with her European counterparts in Luxembourg on Thursday.

Supported by Italy, Denmark, the Czech Republic and Greece, she accused the EU Commission of exceeding its authority.

Spain, Great Britain, the Benelux nations, Austria and Sweden, by contrast, all stood behind the Commission.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU states agree to invite Belarus minister - EUobserver

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - EU states have agreed to invite Belarus foreign minister Sergei Martynov to a prestigious meeting in Brussels, as the French EU presidency struggles to counter Russian diplomacy on the union's eastern fringe.

The Belarusian minister is to take part in a "troika" gathering with EU foreign relations chief Javier Solana, external relations commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner and French foreign minister Bernard Kouchner on 13 October, on the margins of a wider EU foreign ministers' meeting on the same day.

The Belarusian foreign minister is to take part in a "troika" gathering with EU top foreign policy officials

Senior EU diplomats made the decision in Brussels on Friday (3 October), with Mr Kouchner's office set to rubber-stamp the move before a formal invitation goes out. A previous suggestion to bring Mr Martynov to Paris in September was judged premature at the time.

The formal invitation may be made before Monday, when Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin plans to visit Minsk, in order to show Belarus that the EU is taking seriously its latest offer of a rapprochement with the West.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU big four gather for financial crisis talks - EUobserver

The leaders of the EU's four biggest states - Germany, France, Britain and Italy - are gathering for emergency talks on the financial crisis in Paris on Saturday (4 October), one day after US lawmakers are expected to vote for the second time on an amended bail-out plan for the country's financial sector.

Nicolas Sarkozy has invited his counterparts from Britain, Germany and Italy for talks about the deepening financial crisis

European Commission president Jose Manuel Barroso on Thursday welcomed the approval of the package by the American Senate, which had enabled another attempt to hammer out the bill in the House of Representatives and described it as "a good step forward in the right direction."

But after receiving negative signals from both Berlin and London on the idea of a similar emergency fund worth €300 billion for Europe's banking sector, French president Nicolas Sarkozy distanced himself from the proposal.

"I deny the sum and the principle," he said, according to media reports. An official in French finance minister Christine Lagarde's office added that "there was an exchange of ideas but no French proposals. There was no French plan," AFP says.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:11:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU climate change cuts: Poland leads revolt over Russia fears - Telegraph

Poland has claimed that it has assembled enough votes to block a landmark EU climate change agreement after spearheading a revolt by Eastern European states that fear the package would increase their dependence on Russian natural gas supplies.

  • EU Environment Commissioner: world can reach climate change agreement
  • UK accused of blocking EU green energy laws
  • EU could save £20bn per year on health by cutting emissions
  • A six nation bloc on the EU's eastern fringes signed a pact to fight a proposal designed to cut carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by a fifth by 2020.

    The target represents the EU's landmark initiative to address the pressures of climate change and would return the continent's output of CO2 to 1990 levels.

    Poland has led efforts to fend off adoption of the package. An aide to the country's environment minister, Maciej Nowicki said Greece had joined the opposition, alongside Hungary, Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria,

    "Poland's Environment Minister signed in Greece an agreement referring to the climate package," Joanna Mackowiak, a ministry spokeswoman said. "We have the blocking minority."

    by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:18:28 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Natural gas i also bad for climate emissions and is only the logical substitute because we have an insane energy policy pushed by Brussels that puts liberalisation s the main priority, and does not seem to care that its main result is more gas-fired or coal-fired plants being built.

    The tensions with the climate change goals would be a joy to watch if the subject were not so serious.

    In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

    by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:40:11 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Q: Why don't they build wind and nuclear if they worry so much about Russian gas?

    A: Because talk is cheap, wind and nuclear are not.

    Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

    by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 06:22:36 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    EC backs business use of social networks - vnunet.com

    Information Society and Media Commissioner Viviane Reding argued in a speech at the Safer Internet Forum in Luxemburg today that social networking sites can have a positive impact on European industry by boosting productivity and internal communications.

    "The result is that clients are for the first time truly engaged in a company's product innovation and development services, which should eventually lead to an increased client loyalty and more purchases," she said.



    Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
    by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 09:38:45 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Why facebook? There are plenty of other sites, even non-profit ones like kaioo.
    If it seems to be in German, change in the url de to en.

    Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
    Pain brings Katharsis
    by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:03:55 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    [Europe.Is.Doomed™ Alert]

    Le gouvernement reconnaît que le pays est en récession - La crise financière - Le Monde.fr The government acknowledges that the country is in recession - The financial crisis - The Monde.fr
    ... Suite aux conclusions de l'Insee prévoyant une baisse du PIB français pour les deux derniers trimestres de 2008, le ministre du budget Eric Woerth a reconnu que le pays était en "récession technique" après deux trimestres de "croissance négative". Il a toutefois souligné que, sur l'ensemble de l'année en cours, la croissance du PIB sera de 1 %, un argument qu'il avait utilisé dans un premier temps pour démentir qu'une récession avait lieu. <...>... Following the conclusions of INSEE providing a drop of French GDP for the last two quarters of 2008, the budget minister Eric Woerth acknowledged that the country was in "technical recession" after two quarters of negative growth. " He however stressed that, throughout the year, GDP growth will be 1%, an argument he had used at first to deny that a recession took place. <...>
    Dans la matinée, M. Woerth avait utilisé plusieurs expression pour décrire la situation de la croissance française, tout en prenant soin de ne pas utiliser le mot "récession". Cette ligne de conduite a également été adoptée par plusieurs membres du gouvernement, dont sa collègue de l'économie, Christine Lagarde, pour savoir si c'est une récession ou pas "n'est pas le plus important"."On est dans une situation économique difficile. Il faut mettre en place des mesures de soutien au développement de l'activité, c'est ça qu'on est en train de faire", s'est-elle contentée de répondre.In the morning, Mr. Woerth had used several words to describe the situation of French growth, while taking care not to use the word "recession". This line of conduct has also been adopted by several government ministers, including his colleague of Economy, Christine Lagarde, whether it's a recession or not "is not the most important ". We are i a difficult economic situation. We must put in place measures to support the development of economic activity, that is what we are doing, she limited herself to responding.
    Le porte-parole de l'UMP,Frédéric Lefebvre, s'était étonné que le journalistes veuillent "que l'on prononce le mot récession". "Il y a une croissance molle pour 2008 et une croissance qui ne devrait pas être très forte en 2009, c'est pour cela qu'il faut la soutenir par une politique d'hyper-réactivité comme le fait le gouvernement", a justifié le député des Yvelines, alors que le ministre du travail, Xavier Bertrand soulignait l'importance d'"un discours de réalisme, pas un discours de catastrophisme". Le premier ministre, François Fillon, s'est refusé à tout commentaire sur la question. Nicolas Sarkozy, qui a annulé une réunion prévue vendredi avec les jeunes apprentis européens pour préparer la réunion au sommet sur la crise financière de samedi, ne s'est pas non plus prononcé.The spokesman for the UMP, Frédéric Lefebvre, was surprised that journalists wanted "us to say the word recession." "There has been sluggish growth for 2008 and growth will probably not be very strong in 2009, which is why we should support a policy of urgent response as the government is actually doing," declared the deputy from Yvelines, while the labor minister, Xavier Bertrand emphasized the importance of "a discourse of realism, not a discourse of catastrophe". The Prime Minister, François Fillon, declined to comment on the matter. Nicolas Sarkozy, who canceled a planned meeting Friday with young interns to prepare for the European summit meeting on the crisis on Saturday, did not make any statements.


    Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
    by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:58:36 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    WORLD
    by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:51:08 PM EST
    Jewish terrorism threatens Israel - Telegraph
    One of Israel's leading left-wing academics tells The Telegraph the future of the Israeli state is threatened as much by Jewish terrorism as it is by Palestinian militancy.

    Professor Zeev Sternhell knows as much as anyone about the current threat from Jewish terrorism.

    His right leg is recovering from shrapnel caused when a bomb, believed to have been the work of right-wing Jewish extremists, exploded outside the front door of his Jerusalem apartment last week.

    While Arab-Jewish violence is common, the attack on the 73-year-old historian has shocked public opinion in Israel because all the evidence points to it being intra-Jewish.

    "I consider it an act of Jewish terrorism," he said in an interview from the modest apartment where the bomb exploded.

    The glass front door is still broken and the wall plaster pitted with shrapnel marks.

    His trenchant criticism of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and, in particular, Jewish settlers who make their home there in defiance of international law make him a hate figure for some Israeli right-wingers.

    [Murdoch Alert]
    by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 02:59:30 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Congress approves $700 billion Wall Street bailout - International Herald Tribune

    WASHINGTON: The U.S. House of Representatives gave final approval Friday to the $700 billion bailout for the financial system, reversing course to authorize what may be the most expensive U.S. government intervention in history.

    The vote was 263 to 171, with a number of Democrats and Republicans switching sides to give the rescue package a majority. More Republicans continued to oppose the measure than support it, however.

    The Senate approved the plan Wednesday night by 74 to 25, after adding a portfolio of popular tax provisions. The bill now heads to President George W. Bush, who has promised to sign it.

    Financial markets had a positive but hardly exuberant response to the House action and the prospect that the Federal Reserve would also move to cut interest rates to help the ailing economy. Just after the bill was approved, the Dow Jones industrial average was up about 115 points.

    by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:06:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Well, I don't think we should celebrate -it is a terrible plan, much worse than what a reasonably clever and honest person could have designed is, say, 30 minutes. But I guess I'll side with Krugman and all in reckoning that it's better than doing nothing, in a "might buy time till adults are in charge" kind of way.

    But to me, it means I probably have to change signature. So out will go "It failed because Nancy Pelosi said unkind things about George Bush in her speech."

    So long. Let's go with Brecht for a while now -I am truly afraid it could becore very relevant in the rather near future.

    "The womb that spawned that thing is fertile yet"

    by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:43:19 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Pakistan's frontier turns into war zone - International Herald Tribune

    PESHAWAR, Pakistan: War has come to Pakistan, not just as terrorist bombings, but as full-scale battles, leaving Pakistanis angry and dismayed as the dead, wounded and displaced turn up right on their doorstep.

    An estimated 250,000 people have now fled the gunship helicopters, jets, artillery and mortar fire of the Pakistani Army, and the assaults, intimidation and rough justice of the Taliban who have dug into Pakistan's tribal areas.

    About 20,000 people are so desperate that they have flooded over the border from the Bajaur tribal area to seek safety in war-torn Afghanistan. Many others are crowding around this northwest Pakistani city, where staff members from the UN refugee agency are present at nearly a dozen camps.

    The International Committee of the Red Cross flew in a special surgical team from abroad last week to work alongside Pakistani doctors and help treat the wounded in two hospitals, so urgent has the need become.

    by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 03:06:55 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    TPM | 10.3.08
    From the "you can't make this up" file, a McCain foreign policy adviser claimed today that the candidate's decades-long interest in Latin America is exemplified by the fact that he had a girlfriend in Brazil 50 years ago while he was in the Navy:
    by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 04:41:05 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    LOL

    A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
    by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 04:49:54 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Well at least the headline wasn't 'McCain has had a Brazilian' that summons up the sort of nightmare images that will cause nightmares.

    Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
    by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:10:26 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Thank you. Now I can never sleep again.
    by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:35:59 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Sorry overexposure to UK tabloid headlines seems to have permanently efected my brain.

    Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
    by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:44:48 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    My thoughts, precisely.

    Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
    by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 08:40:16 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    dude, die in a fire.

    you are the media you consume.

    by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Oct 4th, 2008 at 01:39:09 AM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Didn't they find her and interview her? I recall she said John was one hell of a good lay.

    (Must have been a European interview...)

    by de Gondi (publiobestia aaaatttthotmaildaughtusual) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:12:40 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    de Gondi: I recall she said John was one hell of a good lay.

    Talking Points Memo | "My Sweet Coconut"

    ''I called him John but also my darling and my sweet coconut,'' she said. ``He was a great kisser. I liked it so much that I bought a book to learn how to kiss myself.''

    Perhaps she was speaking "in code".  And you know what they say about good dancers and good kissers.

    Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

    by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 08:43:53 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    marco:
    my sweet coconut

    And once again with the presidential gravitas.

    Who does he think he is - Bill Clinton?

    by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 10:32:18 PM EST
    [ Parent ]
    Sudden outbreak of democracy baffles US pundits * The Register

    As I write, however, the Bailout that Americans don't want is returning, this time weighed down with pork barrel sweeteners for everyone from NASCAR track owners to environmentalists. A few minutes ago, it passed: so 21st Century America's brush with democracy may have been a brief experiment.

    But wasn't it fun while it lasted?



    Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
    by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Oct 3rd, 2008 at 05:43:48 PM EST
    [ Parent ]