European Tribune - Community, Politics & Progress.

BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth?

by In Wales
Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 05:24:54 AM EST

I wouldn't usually FP a story from the Mirror but this caught my attention in this morning's news bulletins.

The British National Party is running Hitler Youth-style training camps to teach children how to use guns and knives.
Boys and girls as young as 12 have been taught to shoot a rifle, given demonstrations of knife techniques and shown how to make a lethal wooden dart called a Dutch arrow.
The youngsters are also brainwashed with lectures on the BNP's racist beliefs and given talks on how to deal with "Marxist" teachers.
The BNP ran the first youth camp at its annual summer festival called Red, White and Blue. The party's website boasts that children were taught how to make the Dutch arrows, which can be hurled 150 metres

Sensationalist language aside, this is worrying from the point of view of a longer term increase in (or difficulty in containing) racial hatred in the UK.

The article focuses on the outrage of teaching children to use knives, when in the UK we see almost weekly deaths of young people caused by knife attacks. I think this is the wrong line of attack, it misses the real point.

My concern lies more with the potential of the Youth Camps being a successful recruiting strategy for the BNP.

Unlike Hitler's Youth, BNP Young Members are highly unlikely to ever find themselves going to war for the BNP and their leadership. But they can still be agents of propaganda, building the numbers of the next generation of political activists who hold extreme right wing and bigotted views.

The El De Haus museum in Cologne is still fresh in my mind. Following the time line on the floor that showed the rise to power of the Nazi's was a deeply uncomfortable experience. As soon as the Nazi's came to power, their policies and practices were legalised and embedded extremely rapidly. I have no doubt that the BNP would take a similar approach to enforcing their 'values' on the population were they to ever find themselves in power. I'd sincerely hope that legislation such as the European Convention on Human Rights, and the international community itself would prevent such extremes of injustice from becoming embedded.

With each election the BNP makes gains, it is building it's support base, although slowly and the numbers are still relatively small. It's easy to disregard this as unimportant. The chances of there being a BNP Prime Minister in my lifetime, at the moment looks very small. But that doesn't mean that the BNP are no threat to our society.

I tried to access the BNP Youth section of their website and it crashed my browser but if the article is accurate there are alarming parallels between the BNP tactics and those of the Nazi's, although in the context of a very different economical and political climate the implications are different.

The bottom line is that the BNP is a racist party, it is a party that would want to control women, it is a party that would exclude and marginalise me as a disabled person, that would openly attack gay people... the list goes on. Yet the BNP are fairly good at presenting their respectable, well-dressed faces and claiming they are the only party for the indigenous people of the UK. And where there is diminishing distinction and increasing disillusionment with the main UK political parties, it's offering the BNP a ticket in.

So to think that in a country where the problem of racism is still not receding, that more young people are being in doctrinated to extreme right wing views, even in small numbers, is enough to concern me.

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BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? | 40 comments (40 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Are there equivalent youth wings/youth events for far right parties elsewhere in Europe?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 05:33:12 AM EST

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 4)

I don't think there are camps which have explicit weaponary traings, but there are definitively far right youth events in parts of eastern Germany, especially parts with high unemployment, low share of foreigners, absence of young well educated and young women (gone west), and little other organised youth work.

They have real effect. In Saxonia the NeoNazis are in the state parliament, causing a grand coalition.

In west Germany + Berlin they are pretty irrelevant. There chances ever to come to power on the federal level are zero, but when they get 5%, they could force kind of a permanent grand coalition, which wouldn't be exactly democratic in the long term.

Lich King/Caribou Barbie 08
Pain brings Katharsis

by Martin (weiser.mensch(at)googlemail.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:35:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

I can't remember where I read it or which party/organisation it was referring to. It may even have been on Ross Kemp's Gangs series on TV but I remember something about a far right group in Russia that targetted youth (teens and 20s) and used derelict properties and so on to run weapons training as well as indoctrinating the youth to their far right ways for when the revolution came and they were needed to fight - again, racist and anti-migrants 'values'.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:45:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Thats Britain. I wonder how that country will ever get off the timewarp it is stuck in. It's like 1890 forever for them, only they got a modern policestate in the making, so it's really going backwards to an even more regressive system now.

Wouldn't it be time to disband the monarchy's grip over the country? The medieval House of Lords? To have real democratic voting and not the simple majority system which will never change anything?

by antonymous on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 06:12:08 AM EST

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

The BNP is not representative of Britain as a whole. Nor would I say the UK is a policestate in the making even though I wouldn't agree with the extent to which some leglisation and interventions go. It's an abuse to the term police state that will render it meaningless if people keep throwing it about. Police state in reference to Nazi Germany or the USSR would be appropriate but not current UK.

I wouldn't say the monarchy has much grip over the country, their role within parliamentary proceedings is largely procedural without real influence. There are reforms being proposed for the House of Lords to bring in more elected members rather than just handing titles down through families so that aspect is changing.

My diary wasn't about the way in which the UK runs it democratic processes or how elections are run (that's a whole other diary topic in itself) but about the tactics of the BNP in recruiting to it's youth wing and the implicatiosn this has for our society.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 06:24:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 3)

I dont quite understand how the fact that Britain is a partial monarchy has any connection to the BNP. would getting rid of the royals have any effect on a bunch of right wing nutters? I think not.

As for the House of Lords, I remember times when they were providing the only effective resistance to some of Thatcherisms excesses. I agree its an old system, but would a fully elected chamber necessarily be any better?

as for the idea that simple majority voting will never change anything, it's changed things before, it all depends on the qualities of the candidates and memebers raised by the individual parties.

the idea that its all still 1890, thats not true, it's more stuck in an idea of the 1930's, but only an upper middle class vision of what the 1930's were actually like, not the experience of the actual 1930's for the majority.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 07:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

I think the modern policestate is already there with CCTV and the genetic databases, neighbourhood spies and all these things.

The comparison with Communism is very correct, but even those didn't arrogate such powers as the current police state can do. Actually disappearing the dissidents was very hard for them to do, it's not a problem in Britain nowadays with the police being able to detain anyone on a whim.

Also the idea that the monarchy has no grip over politics - it's about the real power, things like money and connections. If the other european countries had never thrown out their monarchies, they would be as backward as Britain today.

It's on this kind of background that a movement like the BNP can run these things, or where else do you find that kind of action in Europe? Oh right, the "new Europe" in the east also have these fascist militias training kids.

by antonymous on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 06:38:23 AM EST

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 4)

antonymous:

I think the modern policestate is already there with CCTV and the genetic databases, neighbourhood spies and all these things.

There are two things missing in the UK for a police state.

(a) respect for "authority" - we have possibly one of the most disrespectful societies there is;

(b) the slightest degree of competence - our current government is as divorced from reality and truly dysfunctional as it is possible to get in the developed world.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 07:31:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

What is the size of the BNP? Is it a major party (Dem., Rep.) or is it a fringe group?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 08:56:29 AM EST

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Wikipedia:

The British National Party (BNP) is a far-right[13][14][15][12] and whites only[13][16][17] political party in the United Kingdom. It claims to have around 100 councillors in local government in England (including parish councillors) - although the BBC estimates only 58 at May 2008, some of whom appear to have split from the main party.[18] The party holds a London-wide seat on the London Assembly, but is not represented in the Parliament of the United Kingdom. In the 2005 UK general election, the BNP received 0.7% of the popular vote, giving them the eighth largest share of the vote (however they only contested English seats, and came 5th in these). In the 2007 Welsh Assembly Election, they came fifth in terms of votes for the regional lists with 4.3% of the vote, winning no seats, also finishing fifth in the 2008 London mayoral election with 5.23% of the popular vote.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:00:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

Relatively small but gaining votes. What we are seeing is people being fooled into standing as BNP candidates and then splitting from the party once they get an idea of how things are run and how racist they actually are. They feed on anti-asylum seeker, anti-migrant and racist feelings and 'speak' for indigenous whites.

There was a split within the BNP leadership not long ago which had been hoped would cause them damage through fracturing the party but I've not heard any more on that. I diaried it at the time though.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:27:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

I believe Barking in East London is where the BNP has its best shot at an MP in the next election based on the sitting Labour MP's remarks

In April 2006 she commented in an interview with The Sunday Telegraph that eight out of ten white working class voters in her constituency may be tempted to vote for the British National Party (BNP) in the May 4 2006 local elections because "no one else is listening to them" about their concerns over unemployment, high house prices, and the housing of asylum seekers in the area. She said the Labour Party must promote "very, very strongly the benefits of the new, rich multi-racial society which is part of this part of London for me".

the fact that Labour is in real electoral trouble lately, and that the BNP with 16.9% (+10.6%) of the vote came third to the Tories with 17.1% (-5.9%).

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:35:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

So what's up with the British Labor Party? Is it in bed with the bad guys as much as the Dems in America?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:43:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

Which bad guys are you referring to? People are just very disillusioned that the Labour Party have failed to be the voice of working class people and have been shifting their policies further to the right.

That said they are much better thanother parties have been on making progress on equality (in some ways - social inequality if not economic).

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:47:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Let's see; "bad guys"

People who are in positions to really make a difference, who only care about themselves to the exclusion of others, their families, other species, the entire planet.
Their basic, unspoken philosophy: I'm here for a limited time on this planet so I will do everything in my power to have as good a time as possible, and if the world goes to hell, I don't care because I'll be gone (dead) before that occurs and affects my good time.

Let's start there.

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 09:55:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

I guess I don't see why you bring in the Labour Party when I am discussing far right parties such as the BNP.

The Labour Party has pandered too much to the whims of the rich at the expense of those who are less well off. That isn't to say that Labour haven't done anything on improving social justice or decreasing inequality but they haven't done enough of it. They certainly haven't met expectations but still, the Tories would be a worse option by far and the BNP overshadow pretty much any criticism I could make about Labour.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 10:33:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

I guess I don't see why you bring in the Labour Party when I am discussing far right parties such as the BNP.

I bring it up because of this in Migeru's comment:

In April 2006 she commented in an interview with The Sunday Telegraph that eight out of ten white working class voters in her constituency may be tempted to vote for the British National Party (BNP) in the May 4 2006 local elections because "no one else is listening to them" about their concerns over unemployment, high house prices, and the housing of asylum seekers in the area.

My question: If the LABOR Party isn't listening to LABOR, who is pulling their strings?

McCain/Palin ... total sacks of SHIT!

by THE Twank (paszeski__aaaaaaatttttt__yahoo.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 10:50:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

Well then I've answered your question. A statement that basically says that 'white' people feel they are not being represented points to the inherent racism in our society, which the BNP feeds off.

White people are by far the majority but many fail to understand that the need for anti-discrimination legislation and measures to level the playing field targetting various minority groups is necessary and doesn't amount to discrimianting against white people.

Labour haven't done enough for working class people in some respects but they have also introduced the minimum wage, made a pledge to reduce child poverty...

The BNP target areas of social unrest and use propaganda to get supporters, so they play on messages such as no other party is listening to you, asylum seekers are jumping the queue on the NHS, migrant workers are taking your jobs and Labour is letting them all flood in - myths, lies, propaganda. That is the BNP.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 11:17:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

White people are by far the majority but many fail to understand that the need for anti-discrimination legislation and measures to level the playing field targetting various minority groups is necessary and doesn't amount to discrimianting against white people.

Actually, at present the group that consistently underperforms in school (as early as primary school) is working-class white males. Make of that what you will.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 11:19:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

I'm aware of that. Are the BNP going to give us the solution though? I don't think so - other than kicking out the black kids.

More needs to be done to tackle this group in terms of under performance - but breakdown by ethnicity is much more complicated than it appears. For example some ethnic groups (eg Chinese) outperform everyone else when it comes to educational achievement and employment. And then other ethnic groups (Bandgladeshi, Black British) are consistently at the bottom. But the category BME as an average doesn't reflect that wide range of outcomes across different groups. So basically the education system needs to address the needs of all kids who are under performing and it isn't doing that effectively.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 11:36:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

How can the group that consistently underperforms in school (as early as primary school) is working-class white males and other ethnic groups (Bandgladeshi, Black British) are consistently at the bottom both be true?

All I'm saying is that "equality policies" designed to help BME in order to "level the playing field" are difficult to explain to working class whites who see their sons underperforming the BME children. The BNP has an easier job with its message.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 11:44:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

ok, at/near the bottom. In terms of employment this divide is clearer. I do understand your point entirely, but some of these same working class whites whose sons are underperforming may well not be doing anything constructive to support their child's education. Perhaps they can't if they have literacy and numeracy problems themselves but there is also a culture that is anti-education, anti-employment amongst some of those groups.

In education there is increasingly a recognition that white boys need more support than they are getting but the system as a whole is flawed and it isn't really helping any of those children who find themselves disengaged and marginalised. Another argument that could be made is that interventions for BME children have had some success and now rather than being targetted at ethnic groups, they should be targetted according to need.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 11:59:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

Being failed in school does not do much for one's opinion of education.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 12:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

some of these same working class whites whose sons are underperforming may well not be doing anything constructive to support their child's education. Perhaps they can't if they have literacy and numeracy problems themselves but there is also a culture that is anti-education, anti-employment amongst some of those groups

And so we come to the real issue which is cultural differences in the way families approach their children's education and that no amount of external support can really make up for.

Now, to say that the white working class subculture handicaps itself relative to BME subcultures is a concept that is going to go down really well with the voters.

But nobody's going to say that since those who care about lifting people out of poverty through education have cultural-relativist reflexes which prevent them from thinking that one subculture is inferior to another one.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 12:10:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

We can talk statistically about the proportion of white/black/chinese/asian etc etc but the bottom line is that where there is underperformance it may be proportionally more likely to effect one group over another but there is commonality in the causes of under performance.

ie kid A is underperforming at school because his parents do not value education and do not work,and expect the state to provide for them. They provide no constructive input for their child and do not support good study habits. They pass their anti-authority values onto their child. Kid A could be black or white or male or female. But the issue to tackle is the culture they are growing up in, which unless the child and the school are fairly exceptional, is going to keep that child trapped with poor outcomes for life.

Which reminds me that this is where we are just beginning to see a shift in the way the UK is looking at equality and it is a welcome move IMO. The equality and human rights commission is setting about developing a new narrative that has a stronger focus on human rights, on the needs of everybody as an individual. Moving away from blanket policies and incorrect assumptions about an individuals needs based on their 'category' eg black/pakistani and towards a more holistic way at looking at social problems, their causes and thus solutions.

But early stages here - mindsets are still very much siloed through equality categories. Until this changes then we'll have that resentment towards 'minorities'.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 12:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

Tony Sewell: Racism is not the problem in schools | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

The average black Caribbean child today may well attend the most lavish of new academies, where the average spent per pupil is more than many private schools. He or she will also have a host of central and local government initiatives which persuade, encourage and sometimes bribe them to achieve. Yet, in terms of behaviour and academic results, they still remain bottom of the class.
A new study by Warwick University concludes institutional racism is to blame for our pupils' collapse. The idea that teachers are directly or indirectly holding back black pupils is questionable. More likely it is to do with the inability or unwillingness of these students to break away from an anti-education peer group that loves the street more than the classroom. There is a need to challenge the low expectations that exist within too many students. Too many black boys aspire to the impossible aim of being a footballer. This has come not because schools have dampened down their aspirations, but because a dominant peer group culture appears more attractive.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 at 01:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Education: Black Caribbean children held back by institutional racism in schools, says study | Education | The Guardian

Black Caribbean pupils are being subjected to institutional racism in English schools which can dramatically undermine their chances of academic success, according to a new study.
Researchers have uncovered evidence that teachers are routinely under-estimating the abilities of some black pupils, suggesting that assumptions about behavioural problems are overshadowing their academic talents.
The findings, based on a survey which tracked 15,000 pupils through their education, add weight to the theory that low achievement among some black students is made worse because teachers don't expect them to succeed.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 5th, 2008 at 01:56:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 3)

Well, the problem is that Labour is pretty much not addressing "working class people" at all - either from a minority or not. So any party addressing them will get a lot of their votes. The same thing happened in France in the '80's when the Communists lost credibility, the Socialists moved to the center and the National Front sweeped the working class vote.

Ethnicity analysis hides under the rug socio-economic categories. (What was the social origin of Chinese immigrants in Asia compared to Bangladeshis ?) And a public authority that talks the language of ethnicity only reinforces the BNP's vision of a racially divided world.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 11:58:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

The problem is the misconception that the UK has become a classless society which is absolutely as far from the truth as you can get. I'll agree that focusing only on ethnic breakdown isn't helpful because it ignores other factors. And it is true that the working classes do not feel that Labour is their voice anymore - but that is not soley down to 'equality policies', it's due to wider economic and social policies.

But racism IS a massive problem and the BNP doesn't just win support because it is highlighting issues that effect working class people but it wins support by directing hatred at BME groups and using them as a scapegoat for all the problems that their target working class white group say they experience.

Nick Griffin the BNP leader isn't a working class boy, any more than most other politicians. He is a racist (not to mention holocaust denier) and will use whatever he can to propagate those views. It is racism in it's purest form that is the reason for there needing to be 'the language of ethnicity' in use otherwise racism itself becomes invisible.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 12:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

the misconception that the UK has become a classless society

ROTFLMAO

You obviously don't think so, but who in the world can possibly hold that view? The UK is the country I've lived in where class is most painfully obvious.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 12:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

It's another bit of propaganda in a way. We are now a classless society - all can achieve whatever they wish to achieve since they are no longer trapped by class and anyone with enough drive and talent can be whatever they want to be. If you fail, it is your own fault. Thank you Thatcher.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 12:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

And it is true that the working classes do not feel that Labour is their voice anymore - but that is not soley down to 'equality policies', it's due to wider economic and social policies

or the lack thereof.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 12:21:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

The BNP, if it is similar to the French FN, wins support among the working class by addressing it in frames people from the working class understand, and then directs that support towards racism. (Not to say that the people that go to the far right were not racist to begin with : many of the Communist voters in early 1980's France were in fact racist, but the PC only marginally used that racism) (Also, the way the FN won votes among the working class wasn't the same way as it earned the small shop owner class)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 01:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

That sounds like a familiar tactic with respect to the BNP.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 01:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Suggested reading from The Guardian two years ago...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 at 05:37:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Excellent links thanks.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 at 06:14:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 1)

Note Bottom of their class is no longer available from the Guardian online...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 at 06:46:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (none / 0)

I read the rest though. She certainly got a great deal of criticism for parachuting her middle class self into the lives of 'common' people but there are interesting comparisons that she highlights.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 at 06:55:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

I think it highlights the problem that those with an academic background, and that includes school teachers regardless of their socioeconomic family background, see the world from a middle-class standpoint which is apparently markedly different from the standpoint of those who self-identify as common and call middle class people (and that would include school teachers) "posh".

In other words, when schooling (and education in general) is seen as an institution to "poshify" "common" children, you have a problem.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 at 07:03:33 AM EST
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Re: BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? (4.00 / 2)

But then, if schooling is a way to select who will belong in which part of the social hierarchy, by definition those that come from disadvantaged parts of society will not be predisposed to success in school. Whatever the means being used to implement this disadvantage.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Sep 4th, 2008 at 08:01:12 AM EST
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BNP Youth Camp = Hitler's Youth? | 40 comments (40 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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