European Tribune

Women in public life

by In Wales
Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 02:55:42 AM EST

Here I go banging on about women and equality again.

The Cabinet Office have released a new report: 'Closing the Gap' which identifies ways to increase participation of women in public life, highlighting what needs to be done to get more under-represented groups of women to play an active role in civic and civil life.

Women from all walks of life remain underrepresented in decision making roles and this is particularly true of women from Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) backgrounds.

Only 29.3% of local authority councillors in England are women and of them, only 3% are BAME women. Currently, less than 20% of MPs are female. There are only two minority ethnic women MPs and there has never been an Asian woman MP.


But why is this important? Because those who represent others through public positions, such as politicians, or those holding public appointments are responsible for grants being given out to projects and organisations, responsible for developing policies that will effect every member of society and so on. I discussed this in July in my diary on Diversity in Public Appointments.

The key ways of getting women involved were identified as:

* Having role models who others can relate to, i.e. women with young children who live similar lives or come from similar backgrounds;

* Specific measures by organisations which target and encourage Black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME) women to step forward (being asked to participate is a big factor);

* More flexible arrangements to enable women to juggle caring responsibilities and participating in the wider community, such as when meetings are held, where and childcare arrangements;

* Building community level networks of support for specific groups such as BAME women; and

* Having ongoing support to maintain and progress their participation and gain confidence to take the next steps.

Sounds like common sense to me. Perhaps I shouldn't blame Thatcher for everything but the shift to 'me' and the individual taking care of their own needs, and increasingly fractured communities means that social and support networks that may have existed for women in the past is less present today. Informal shared childcare arrangements between neighbours and families is far less likely, meaning either no childcare or expensive childcare that prevents women from getting involved with public life. It also reduces the existence of networks and access to role models through which women (and others) can share their experiences.

Aspirations and expectations of how well women can perform in a 'man's world' also prevent women from considering public appointments and politics as an option for them.

TBG pointed out in Thursday's diary on the Concrete ceiling for women? that most men also don't reach these positions or take up public appointments even though they are capable of doing so. It's slightly inaccurate perhaps to use the narrative that has developed around 'majority of CEO, MP, Senior management positions are taken by men' because it gives the false impression that most men are in these roles. Actually, they are largely taken up by a certain type of man and it is this group that get to dictate the way society around them runs. And society runs to the benefit of that type of man over everybody else. So this doesn't just disadvantage women, disabled people, BME people but it also excludes men who don't fit into that prescribed norm of the dominant group, but could still have a great deal to offer.

Perhaps that is too ambiguous a concept to make it's way into policy development though. It is far easier to identify that we don't have enough women, BME and disabled people in these visible and powerful positions and thus we must target them and attract them in. But is it really solving anything?

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It might seem like rehashing and bringing up the same subject again and again but after 30 years of legislation in the UK on equal pay/gender equality, we are still crawling along at a snail's pace and there is no justification for this.  So a new appraoch, a new narrative is needed?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 03:03:55 AM EST
Here I go banging on about women and equality again.

Great!!!! keep on banging! :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 03:42:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking at the link, after 40 years of productive life, I have heard the very same words so many times, I absolutely despair, or scream.  

women to play an active role in civic and civil life.  WTF?  It´s the SSDD as I fought in the US.

They act like they are discovering the wheel, decade after decade, ruling party after ruling party,  knowing full well that they are perpetuating a bureaucracy or words that will be nothing but an obstacle to any possible progress.

I don´t see the subject as banging at all because it´s a half-humanity problem everywhere, even though I accept TBG´s point that we are all in this together vs. the exploiting elites, but women´s chances are even worse in all areas.

The point, IMO, is exactly the opposite: no new approach and no new narrative, but show me the job openings, show me the projects, show me the money, show me the numbers and stop giving conferences, press releases, announcements and nonsense about it! because they are just carbon copies of what was done and said 30 years ago.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Only 29.3% of local authority councillors in England are women and of them, only 3% are BAME women. Currently, less than 20% of MPs are female. There are only two minority ethnic women MPs and there has never been an Asian woman MP.

In my ward, the three councillors are a middle-aged (maybe retired?) white English man, a late-20's pakistani woman and a black (caribbean?) woman in her late 30's or early 40's.

Is there a breakdown of these figures by party?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 03:07:37 AM EST
Having role models who others can relate to, i.e. women with young children who live similar lives or come from similar backgrounds

Oh, the Pakistani councillor is just back from Maternity Leave...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 03:08:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well that shows it can work in some places then!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 03:15:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That depends.  Is she bright, university educated?  What was her father's profession?

Quite a number of the mothers of the ethnically Pakistani children I work with are illiterate.  Either because they grew up in Pakistan or because of prejudice/lack of support when they were educated here.

It's a good start to see the most able of potential BAME candidates getting elected.

But it's a mistake to imagine that there isn't as much diversity within the Pakistani community as within our own. And true representation would give all its groups a voice.

by Sassafras on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 06:18:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was referring more to the councillor being back from maternity leave rather than her ethnicity but your points are very important.  

And your last point is one that is easily forgoteen - falling under a particular label doesn't imply that everyone in that group is homogenous and has the same needs or the same barriers facing them.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 08:16:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, she's a solicitor and her father is a doctor.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 07:24:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here are UK, European and international stats on % of women politicians in Parliaments etc.

The Fawcett Society have some stats.  Here is a word doc on Women in Westminster.

In summary after the 2005 election, Labour 98/356 women MPs, Cons 17/198, lib dems 10/62 and other 3/30.  Labour higest with 27.5% and cons lowest with 8.6%.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 03:26:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Only 29.3% of local authority councillors in England are women and of them, only 3% are BAME women.

According to wikipedia,

As of 2001, 92.1% of the population identified themselves as White, leaving 7.9% of the UK population identifying themselves as mixed race or ethnic minority.
This means that 4% of the population are BAME women and so having 3% of the councillors being BAME women seems sufficiently representative. However, because
30.4% of London's population and 37.4% of Leicester's was estimated to be non-white as of June 2005
and
As of 2007, 22% of primary and 17.7% of secondary pupils at maintained schools in England were from ethnic minority families.
people probably expect to see 20% to 30% BAME councillors nationwide.

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 03:37:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think people do expect to see 20-30% but even if it is proportionally representative and we have 4% BAME, it is still only a small number of visible faces and role models, and frequently people are isolated - the only black councillor in a constituency or the only woman under 40 etc.  

I don't see the harm in encouraging more individuals from minority groups to stand, but ideally the drive to get people interested in participating in public life would extend to all the Not Usual Suspects, especially younger people.

It would be nice if it was part of our culture for the majority of people to be active in their community in some way, through public appointments but also through volunteering.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 04:36:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So proportionally representative is not good enough. What, is, then, good enough? And what about the assumption that people only see role models of their same gender and skin colour?

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:17:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's not what I'm saying. Ideally there shouldn't be any barriers to anyone who has something to offer and wants to get involved.  Where there are higher proportions of BME groups in certain areas it ought to be easier to find people to get involved. But the evidence shows us there are more barriers to involvement for certain groups, which is why those groups are targetted. And research into the causes for low participation rates is telling us what is important to these groups and what will encourage them to come forward.

One thing we find in unions is that black members are reluctant to become reps because they don't want to get landed with the 'black reps' position and they feared being pigeon holed to equalities stuff when they'd rather not cover that area.  This is especially so where there is only one BME person in a workplace.

It isn't that people only see role models of the same gender/ethnicity but having those role models shows that it can be done, it encourages more people to get involved.  I grew up without knowing any other deaf or disabled people, I had absolutely nobody to look up to. All I saw was that I am different and because of that I can't be accepted if I want to do the same things that other people do.  

I still face situations where people don't take me seriously when they realise I am deaf. So the low expectations of me from others, I internalised and had nobody 'like me' to show me it could be different.  

These kind of attitudes, on both sides, will not change until there is greater diversity of people who are active in public life and who hold positions of status in workplaces etc. It isn't about driving out the white men but it is about bringing more new people in. When it is commonplace to see black MP's and younger women MP's and disabled people in CEO positions, then these issues will begin to disappear.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 05:43:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Wales:
That's not what I'm saying. Ideally there shouldn't be any barriers to anyone who has something to offer and wants to get involved.

I think this makes much more sense than the kind of tokenism which seems to have been driving equality legislation. Even when women make it to board level, they'll most likely be women with upper or upper-middle class backgrounds. The opportunities available to an upper or upper middle class white woman are very much wider than those available to both men and women much lower down the totem pole.

It's not equality that's the issue, it's class. It marinates English culture like a very old and musty vinegar, and it's pervasive in personal, social, economic and political relationships. Outsiders, irrespective of gender or ethnic origin, can only move up the totem pole by demonstrating an approrpriate class identity and showing that they accept class values. This includes clothing and appearance, attitude to others, social manners and cultural interests.

Old Labour's union links provided a channel for social mobility which could offer rough and ready access to power without the usual public school -> Oxbridge -> patronage circuit. Thatcher didn't just kill the unions, she also closed that channel. Making good education - which includes social networking - less affordable for the working and lower middle classes has closed it further.

You won't see equality of any kind unless those channels are opened again. The big test isn't what happens in boardrooms, but in the mix of people who become MPs. When there's a solid proportion of activists and amateurs in among the Oxbridge trust funders and 'local business people' then it's going to be possible to take equality seriously as a social reality.

When there's a mechanism which makes that possible, I suspect the gender issue will look after itself.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 08:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When there's a mechanism which makes that possible, I suspect the gender issue will look after itself.

Why would you think that?  

by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 08:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How many activist groups do you know which are exclusively male?
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 09:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Activist groups? The ones I've encountered tend to be made up of highly educated folks, with on average higher than median socio-economic background.

On the other hand my general impression is that there's a decent sized segment of the poor who are sexist and/or racist and/or homophobic. And a significantly larger group who isn't willing to make a major issue out of that sort of prejudice. The track record of unions on pushing equality isn't all that great.

You pointed out that equal opportunity at the upper reaches of society isn't going to do anything about class. I agree. But I think the reverse is equally true.

by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 09:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is exactly the narrative that needs to be picked up that the categorisation encouraged by the current raft of equality legislation doesn't give room for.  

This is why I am disappointed by what appears to be coming our way - or more importantly, not coming our way - through the Equality Bill.

EHRC in Wales at least - from speeches and discussions I have been around for - has picked up the issue of social class and vital in the quest for achieving a more equality society.  I really hope that we start to see this kind of narrative develop, but the equality strand mode of thinking is very ingrained at the moment.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 05:55:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I assume you mean the first one. :-)

Acronym    Definition
BAME    Black, Asian & Minority Ethnic
BAME    Brigade Airspace Management Element

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 04:44:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
yes! BAME is newer, we are more used to using BME - Black and Minority Ethnic or MEG - Minority Ethnic Groups. It can get contentious if you use the wrong phrase in the wrong circles.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 04:54:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not used to either. How new is this acronym-creative ethnic categorising in Britain?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 12:10:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BME and MEG have been around for a number of years. BAME I have only come across over the last year.

The equality and human rights commission are bringing some changes in terminology about.  Equality 'groups', 'streams', and 'strands' have become 'mandates' which refers directly to the legislation and the mandates of the commission but everybody else seems to want to stick with 'strands'.

Also used are 'disadvantaged', 'minority' (which also includes women), and 'under-represented' but this varies according to context.  'vulnerable' groups in relation to equality isn't liked by the disability movement but is often used in reference to exploited groups of workers or to people with learning disabilities.  So complicated.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 01:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there is a genuine issue regarding education here. Representatives are invariably from the middle classes, or at least the upper working class supervisory trades, simply because these are people who have developed confidence in their ability to assimilate information from documentation. There is no barrier to entry from self-perceived inadequacies.

There has been a bit of a kerfuffle in the newspapers just this week about the failure of education with regard to coloured minorities, particularly afro-caribbean males (tho I guess it applies to women too). An appalling attitude to reading, writing and arithmetic before year 6 that allows as many as 30% to arrive at senior school unable to read allied to the prevailing prejudice of low expectation within the educational establishment, all mixed in with an anti-intellectual "street" culture means that many capable minorities leave school ill equipped to deal with a world of text based information.

So how does this affect women particularly ? I think women  are more likely to become poverty-trapped, particularly if they become single mothers at an early age. There is an intersection of education, class, gender and culture that can be very difficult to overcome without the very support networks you note have vanished.

to change this will require the sort of wide ranging improvements in education and child support that successive governments are fond of discussing, but much less incapable of funding effectively.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 11:00:32 AM EST
If you don't mind answering.  Do you consider yourself to be an ethnic minority person living in the UK?  It might sound like a silly question but I do know some people who are Spanish/Portuguese etc who consider themselves to be BME even though they've lived here for most of their lives. It's a bit of a grey area as far as I'm concerned.

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by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 01:26:41 PM EST
(And were you considered Latino when you lived in the US ?)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 07:11:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I find these ethnic/linguistic classifications rather annoying. I tend to choose 'white' or 'decline to state' when I am given a  form to fill out with an ethnicity section.

In the US Hispanic is a linguistic term, whereas Latino refers to Latin American and Chicano to Mexican descent. So I could be Hispanic but not Latino, technically.

I don't know why I would want to consider myself BaME...

A vivid image of what should exist acts as a surrogate for reality. Pursuit of the image then prevents pursuit of the reality -- John K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 07:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Back in college I remember everybody who could put down Latino for their law and med school apps. German, Asian, Jewish - all legitimately 'Latino'. Among prominent bloggers both Matt Yglesias and Ezra Klein are technically eligible for the classification (Cuban and Brazilian respectively). A friend of mine was rather annoyed at some of the 'Latino' things - her attitude was that she didn't mind someone from East L.A. getting a leg up on her, but kids of high powered Mexico City lawyers and wealthy Sao Paolo businessmen were a different story.
by MarekNYC on Sat Sep 6th, 2008 at 07:41:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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