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Sunday Open Thread

by afew
Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 10:03:30 AM EST

Time for open discussion


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Should we start off with a group hug?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 10:12:07 AM EST
eeer, what ??

Wait a fortnight and we can do a real one, preferably after too much wine (or in my case, whine).

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 10:42:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hug-a-lot!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:14:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
there were a couple of nice outdoor events to go to this weekend, but cos the weather was decidedly unpleasant, we haven't bothered.

Now there's sunshine, just too late to do anything. Doh !!

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 10:43:58 AM EST
Despite lots of cloud it has been fairly warm and pleasant since yesterday afternoon.  I went on the ferris wheel at 10pm after a pint of Samuel Smiths organic bitter and what a laugh that was!  I had my holga with me too.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 10:53:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What's a holga?

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:16:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:24:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reading around the sunday's today the UK political concensus seems to be;-

Charles Clarke was a dork for stating the obvious that Brown is a hopeless leader.

Brown is being give time to improve his performance till "after the Conference (in october)", "after the Scottish by-election" (sometime before mid-nov), "until Christmas", "until Spring". Because...well just because.

David Milliband has precisely zero support for his leadership bid.

There is no credible alternative (...except Blair).

and last but not least. Whatever it is that David Cameron is doing, it's upsetting someone somewhere cos he's got a lot of critical lines about it. Tories briefing against him already ???

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 10:54:30 AM EST
Times - Minette Marin - This cynical choice has left McCain's honour in shreds

John McCain's choice of Governor Sarah Palin was the last straw. It makes American politics look like a sick comedy. My faith in my native country had already been shaken by other elections and by other wrongs, such as the Iraq war (which I at first supported, to my shame). But the moose-hunting pitbull with lipstick is too much. I have never used my vote in the past, but if I had, I would usually have voted Republican. Today no rational conservative can vote for the Palin and McCain ticket. It makes America an international laughing stock. The fact that there has been a Palin bounce, after her charismatic speech, fills me with dismay.

This has little to do with Palin's views.
[....]
All the same, her selection was a shock. What horrified me was not so much the woman herself, though she is clearly entirely unfit to be vice-president or president. It was McCain's cynical and sudden choice of her.
[....]
Though he didn't know Palin personally, he must have known a few facts about her. He must have known that she compares feebly with previous vice-presidential candidates. Her education is minimal, her real political and managerial experience very slight.
[....]
In short Palin is an ill-educated, inexperienced hypocrite. The Republicans are trying to sell her to the voters as something she isn't, and McCain hardly cares what she is. It's a bad day for my native land.

Am I supposed to do [Murdoch alert] for this ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:17:43 AM EST
Shoots-Wolves-From-Airplanes has got to be the most poorly vetted veep candidate since George McGovern chose Thomas Eagleton.

If it was my job to make shit up, I'd probably shoot myself in dispair. OTOH, if I was a latenite talkshow host, I'd be rubbing my hands with glee.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:27:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was brought up here from early childhood and think myself exceptionally lucky to belong here;

Dear Ms Marrin,

Speaking of cynical, how are ya?

If you have never bothered to vote, but you´d have voted repugnican anyway, you´d have gotten the choice you are looking at right now!!!, so you have nothing to complain about and nothing to be proud in your oh-so-convenient writing.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well come along, she does write for Murdoch. The house-style tends towards justifying your right wing prejudices, you can't expect in-depth questioning and analysis.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:06:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The End is Nigh!

For it is written, when even Minette Marin accidentally writes something that I don't totally disagree with in every detail, then truly the Apocalypse is due...

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC NEWS | UK | Scotland | Glasgow, Lanarkshire and West | Poles first in Euro dance contest

Poland claimed first place in the Eurovision Dance Contest, which was held in Scotland on Saturday.

Actor Marcin Mroczek and dancer Edyta Herbus won the votes of watchers throughout the continent with a routine set to Michael Jackson's music.

Russia finished second and Ukraine were third, while hosts UK finished ninth out of 14 competitors.

A television audience of millions watched the 135 minute programme, which came from Glasgow's SECC.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:30:25 AM EST
Don't know why, but the video can only be watched in the UK. Isn't that stupid?
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:31:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably all sorts of rights issues involved with other european broadcasters.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
from the little Georgia escapade?:

Several Russian ships and 1,000 soldiers will take part in joint naval maneuvers with Venezuela in the Caribbean Sea later this year, exercises likely to increase diplomatic tensions with Washington, a pro-government newspaper reported on Saturday.

I knew it wouldn't be long before our region was dragged into this whole mess.

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne

by maracatu on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:45:55 AM EST
Wait till missiles go into cuba to protect russia from phillipino aggression.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By way of background : Frank Field has always bee nregarded as a principled mid-leftie within the Labour party, a solid union man who cmapaigns on unfashionable social issues and picks up respect from all points on the political spectrum.

However, he has always had relatively conservative economic views and provided a cross-party fig-leaf for many of Mrs thatcher's ideas (a sort of Lieberman/Sell Miller figure).

Now however is this

Sunday Times - Frank Field leads calls for curbs on migrants

The leading Labour rebel, Frank Field, has teamed up with senior Tories to demand a cap on the number of immigrants settling in Britain.

[.....]
A former welfare minister under Tony Blair, Field will join Nicholas Soames, the Tory MP, to call for a huge reduction in the numbers of non-European Union workers who settle permanently in Britain. Soames, a former minister under John Major, is a hate figure among many Labour MPs.

Together with the pressure group Migrationwatch, Field and his allies will launch the first cross-party parliamentary immigration group. The move has tacit support from at least one government minister.

Field aims to push Brown to end Britain's open door immigration policy, which he says is costing British jobs and is deeply unpopular with voters.

The open door immigration policy only applies to EU member staes, and Field knows that, so he is lying to make his case. Most immigration to the UK is from the EU and nearly all of the evidence he cites about the social difficulties resulting from immigration came about with the sudden influx of ex-eastern bloc workers from the EU. (A lot of whom have returned home now their own countries are in a good state).

But being allied to Soames and, particularly, MigrationWatch, is worrying because both are extremely hostile to immigration, particularly those of less than lily-white complexion. Especially as he appeared in an episode of the "White Season" on BBC about Enoch Powell's racist 1968 Rivers of Blood" speech stating that "a lot of people are migrating from the united kingdom and the main reason is because they don't like what has happened to the uk".

Again here, although he claims to be talking about all immigrants (after all most non-EU migrants are wasps from S Africa and Australia/NZ with close relatives here). But when you look at his moans and complaints he's really complaining about black african and asian people, the ones who are settled in East London and cause massive resentments because of the general lack of social housing.

A genuinely progresive politician would be making a case for better care of all sections of the community to ease the strains and tensions. But not our Frank. Together with his right wing demagogue chums they want all immigrants stopped.

Tho he hasn't called for us to leave the EU yet (migration watch have)

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 11:53:30 AM EST
Migrationwatch is right up there with the Taxpayers' Alliance as groups which do not even deserve to have a letter printed in the Nether Wallop Gazette...
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:02:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

(it's just 13 seconds)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:11:38 PM EST
I can't hear it, can anyone summarise?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:14:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Barak says "it's absoultely right that John McCain hasn't talked about my muslim faith".

It cuts off in mid-sentence so evidently th rest of it doesn't support the inference intended.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.  I now wonder why he was being interviewed in a barn.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"let's not play games -- what I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith"

Camera change after about, so it could be a cut and paste job... and clearly taken out of context.

But this is just the start of dirty tricks season.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:27:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Expected it.

The GOP has an excellent propaganda team with decades of experience.  This is the sort of thing they live for.


Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As Glenn greenwald says

But the idea that Americans instinctively recoil from negativity or that there will be some sort of backlash against Republicans generally and Palin specifically because of how "negative" their convention speeches were is pure fantasy. Cultural tribalism and personality attacks of those sort work, especially when they're not aggressively engaged.

Every four years, the GOP unleashes unrestrained personality attacks on Democrats and exploits cultural resentments. Every four years, Democrats tell themselves that such attacks don't work and are counter-productive. And every four years, that belief is disproven. These "character" issues end up mattering largely because Democrats, in election after election, allow wars over "character" to be waged in a largely one-sided fashion.



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly yes.

Dean scream, swiftboat, effete, muslim, white legs good, brown legs bad.

It's been Obama's to lose, and while I don't think he's lost it yet - if he hammers on the economy issue - he's been making too many gaffes for comfort.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:39:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More so, he's lacking the viciousness necessary.  That's the solution to Glenn's problem.  But too many on the left don't want to go there, even over at places like dKos.

It's an ugly game.  You have to go there.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More so, he's lacking the viciousness necessary.

It's an ugly game.  You have to go there.

Oooh, me, me. Can I play ? Pleeeeaase ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're in a state polling hiatus caused by the Conventions.  These are the ones that matter.

Both Gallup and Rasmussen, the two daily national tracking polls, have had to continual muck with their internals to keep McShame close -- and he's still running behind.  These are interesting, but not determinative, as they illustrate the ebb and flow of the two campaign's message.  

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't worry too much about polls right now, although McCain's bounce has turned out to be larger than I had anticipated (never underestimate the stupidity of the public, I guess).  Things should start to settle down around Wednesday, and I suspect in about two weeks we'll be back to the typical O+2 state of things in the trackers.

Gallup and Rasmussen both seem to have R-leaning house effects, according to Pollster.com.  I'll be interested in seeing what Diageo has to say, since it apparently has the lowest (albeit slightly Dem-leaning) house effect.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 04:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's the context



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:05:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that has lasted two winters already, but I decided to take it apart to clean it this morning and the screws wouldn´t turn...... so I ´separated it´.  Then threw it in the sink, washed it motor an all and set it out in the sun.

There are 2 loose wires that I don´t know where they hook to, so what do I do now?  :-D

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:41:49 PM EST
LOL, sorry, but LOL - I just get some funny pictures in my mind. And sorry I do not have the foggiest idea what you can do with those tho wires. I guess you have to stick them somewhere, but I guess the question is where? LOL :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 12:44:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the wires still have their color-coded insulation all the way to the end look for a matching wires that don't go anywhere.

Most likely the wires broke-off at the solder joint.  That's more of a pain.  The thing to do is get yourself a magnifying glass and carefully inspect the heater until you find missing leads.  Take your time; it will take some time.  When, or if, you find the places you'll need to do a bit of analysis as to which wire goes where.  In general the wires should match to the same color: black to black, white to white.  In practice, it doesn't always work that way.

SAFETY ISSUE!  ASSUME YOUR RE-WIRING IS INCORRECT!!!!!

Should you get the thing re-wired, conduct the test outside in a safe place.  Make sure there is no power running to the heater.  Turn it on.  Then apply power from a safe distance.  The best would be a power strip or something with a switch.  

If the heater smokes or makes funny buzzing noises turn the power off.  Reverse the wires and try again.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, I asked for it.  This job will not only require a screwdriver, but also patience!  :-D  

I may need to write that on a sticky note and put it on the bathroom mirror....

Thank you AT!  LOL.  But, but... it wasn´t even a shower surround!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Founding Member of the International "Honey-Do" Repair Services, Inc. LPC. LLC.

;-)

Actually, the best thing is buy another one for the bathroom even if you get this one repaired.  Breaking the seal, like you did, means the thing can no longer be relied on to repeal moisture.  It may stay dry inside; it may not.  If not Bad Things happen.  Like electrocution.  

Stay safe & toss the sucker.

Och nu den svenska kocken bakar en Alaskan älg jägare. Bonk! Bonk! Bonk!

by ATinNM on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
AT's giving you good advice here, metavision. Please take it - Paris wouldn't be the same without you!

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 01:54:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thirded. Junk it, it's only 13 euros, it ain't worth visiting Cheney's justice over that.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No patience?  You all have convinced me!  I had not thought of a moisture seal.

But the note on the mirror may make me a better person.  (;

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 03:02:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Next time, vacuum-clean only.

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 03:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
metavision:
Then threw it in the sink, washed it motor an all and set it out in the sun.

[gibbers]

Motors, not usually washable. Lubrication oil won't take kindly to being dunked. Especially bad if you used soap or detergent.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 07:29:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
US Trade: Colombia Grows Most
BUSY PORT: The port of Cartagena, Colombia's largest, is seeing increased traffic thanks to the growing U.S. trade.
U.S. trade with Colombia is booming even without a free trade agreement. Overall US trade with Latin America is picking up.
www.latinbusinesschronicle.com - August 18, 2008

Despite a delay by the U.S. Congress in voting on the Colombia free trade agreement, U.S. trade with the South American country is growing strongly.  In fact, Colombia is the Latin American country that is seeing the strongest growth in trade with the United States, according to a Latin Business Chronicle analysis of trade data from the US Census Bureau for the first half of the year.

Meanwhile, Peru is the fastest-growing market in Latin America for U.S. goods, while Ecuador is the fastest-growing Latin American exporter to the United States. And Venezuela is again the second-largest U.S. trading partner in Latin America after losing that position last year to Brazil.

PICKING UP
All in all, U.S. trade with Latin America reached $318.9 billion in the first half of 2008, an increase of 19.7 percent from the same period last year, according to the Latin Business Chronicle analysis. That means U.S. trade with the region is picking up. By comparison, total trade last year only grew by 6.2 percent. ...

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne

by maracatu on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:03:54 PM EST
here: http://bobgeiger.blogspot.com/2008/09/saturday-cartoons.html

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 02:46:44 PM EST
Good stuff

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 03:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A rare moment of (somewhat inevitable) sanity:

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 03:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fan- freakin'-tastic !!!!

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 03:31:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Blimey, has everyone gorn orf ? Or are you reading SusanG genuinely disturbing essay over at dKos, Beautiful Loser ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 06:01:09 PM EST
Resting all day for me.  Big week ahead.  Gotta get through about fifteen hundred pages of finance data from Ohio, compile it, make sure everything looks kosher, yadda yadda yadda.  Off to Memphis on Wednesday to meet with the city treasurer Thursday morning, and working Friday, Saturday and possibly Sunday.

Yuck.  I don't want to be a grown-up anymore.

Where's your motherf*%&ing flag pin?

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 06:09:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was watching Desperate Housewives - new series. Off to bed now.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 7th, 2008 at 06:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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