Friday Open Thread

by Colman
Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 11:30:35 AM EST

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Slowly easing back into the "real world" after a while off-line. I'm not enjoying it much.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 11:31:19 AM EST
I'm not quite back to the real world yet.  I've been helping to sort out, tidy and clean a relative's flat for the last week. In between DVDs and food but not much net access cos we've been busy doing stuff.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:51:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is it the world you don't lie? or is itmore the ammount of mail waiting for you when you got back?

Give a politician an inch, and he'll think he's a ruler
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 11:50:40 AM EST
The world. My e-mail isn't too bad - I've been deleting stuff often enough - but the news services are just depressing.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 11:52:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Everybody's taking their last chance for an atrocity during the pre-Obama period before they have to start to behave for the nice american (they haven't seen one in office for a while).

It'll all stop in February. And re-start in May when they find out he's not living up to the billing.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:48:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, grief, is it normality already ? Nothing but a void of aching bittereness over which to skate for 3 months or so before the sun comes out.

You can tell I've vowed to give up booze for weight loss purposes can't you ? If you thought bitter and twisted was a beer from Harviestoun (nice pale ale with a good balance of amber and crystal malts with a hefty thwack of ...shut up !! Shut Up!!!) then you've seen nothing yet.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:44:54 PM EST
Why give up completely and not just limit yourself to say 3 drinks per week?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:47:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Kinda like giving up smoking by only having 3 fags a day. All you're doing is prolonging the agony.

Sides, for me a drink is anything between 5 - 7 pints. Not part of any calorie controlled diet I've ever seen.

Sorry. you'll just have to accept that Helen has taken Scrooge and Blackadder into her heart

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:50:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Giving up smoking is a different thing imo.  I personally don't see the harm in giving up alcohol but it is a difficult thing to do that makes you miserable knowing you can't even have one drink every so often.  How long will it last anyway, until you've lost the weight you want?  Then you fall back into bad habits?  Is it not better to create good habits that don't remove all nice things but help bring a balance in?

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 12:57:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't know myself. I tried not drinking for two weeks last year and it worked out pretty well in reducing my consumption on the long run. I'd say try out different things and see what works.

You also have to understand that the (non-scientific) literature on doing this stuff has a vested interest in not working.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 01:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd agree but aside from anything else I think my liver needs a thorough rest. I've unknowingly been taking a dangerous form of oral oestrogen for the past 6 years. You can do that when you're young but only for 4 - 5 years. However it causes problems past the age of 35, especially if you take it for long periods at the doses I have.

Even tho' I've now changed medication so ease the problem, this will have strained my liver considerably and so it needs a rest. Giving up booze is something of a no-brainer decision. I've done it before and know the ropes; I feel grumpy for a couple of weeks and then I get used to it.

But i do need to lose weight as well, I've got a serious beer belly growing down below and I really don't like the look


keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 01:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then you have other reasons for stopping drinking/cutting it right down.  Which is different than just trying to lose weight.  It was the same for me when I had to completely cut out dairy which was incredibly hard at the time because the cravings for it were so strong and it required a big change in lifestyle and habits to be able to cut it out and not keep giving into wanting to binge. It is hard.  Good luck with it.  I'm sure you'll begin to feel lots better in yourself once you get past being grumpy.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 01:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen, You must do it. And you can. The weight will go down proportionally. Anything we can do to help - like forgiving grumpiness - just say the word ;-)

It's a Learned Behaviour Disorder. The trick is finding ways to unlearn. Unlearning takes time. Be patient.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 02:06:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
thank you. I really only want ot give up for a month, but I suspect that it would be best not to drink until my weight is more reasonable and that may be some months away.

Still, whilst I'm unemployed not wasting what little cash I have on booze will be a good thing.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 02:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unca Sven speaks true. Do it, Helen, you can.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 02:34:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen, you know i stand behind you here.  The liver is not to be trifled with, though as you know i often do.  But a good cleanout works wonders, especially if you eat really healthy over the next months.  All my best.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 07:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So what are your cunning plans?

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 01:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drink is the urine from the last leper in hell

I thought we'd agreed to stop slagging off budweiser.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 01:05:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, no.

But we could say Kronenbourg instead (the standard pig wee, I mean).

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 02:37:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think Kronenburg is preferable to St louis rice beer. Grievous global abominations in the name of beer include skol, anything polish, anything chinese and Castlemaine XXXX

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 02:48:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I find Tyskie and Zywiec quite drinkable, but you're the expert. What do you think about Foster's?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the Foster's made in Sheffield, UK is not a nice product, that much I can say without fear of contradiction.

Tsingtao seemed relatively ok in Shenzhen.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:16:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I confess to doing the voiceover for Foster's TV ads in Finland - spoken in Strine, of course. One of the few occasions when I have advertised something I wouldn't use myself.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those two polish beers are really not nice : you live in berlin, what are you doing drinking polish beer when you've got the good stuff all round ?

fosters ? There is a railway station at the Northern end of the Piccadilly tube line in london that adequatley captures my feeling : Cockfosters. A friend of mine really likes it so I've often persuaded myself that I can try it and the sheer nastiness of it never ceases to amaze me.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:23:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I saw a US beer called Old Skratch on Wednesday, brought by one of our guests. Has a Ralph Steadman etiquette. Supposed to be good. I know nothing as you well know...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Soon as you said Ralph Steadman I was thinking Flying dog, but this is the one you mean

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:52:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was living in Berlin, 30 odd years ago, the local beer was Schultheiss.
Still remember their slogan (Was trinken wir? Schultheiss Bier!) plastered all over the sides of the double decker buses. At this time, I was too young to drink beer anyway, so I can't tell whether it is any good.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It isn't, but it's cheap. Of the local beers I prefer Berliner (which has to be kept separate from Berliner Kindl). Decent beer and still cheaper than a Becks (bad) or Warsteiner.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyway, I was a kid back then.
BTW, do you live in Wedding? That's where my family was living, not far from the French cultural center on Muellerstrasse...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:59:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, in Wedding, about 2 kilometres east of the French cultural centre. I've walked past it quite a few times on a Sunday stroll. With the mini Eiffel tower. Funny.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 06:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mini Eiffel tower? I guess Berlin has changed a lot since the mid-70s... (duh!)

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 09:56:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
GIGONOMICS: NOW ROCK BANDS MUST SING FOR THEIR SUPPER

Readworthy article in the Economist about the music business for ET popular music fans. Some of it may sully your plectrum, but there are some very interesting figures in there.

Henry Trick's musical insights are limited to;

What is it about such spontaneous eruptions of mass enjoyment? Perhaps it is the loneliness of the digital age. We mostly  listen to our music through headphones; seldom do we sing along around a piano or record player.

Perhaps it is an act of faith. Few people now sing together in church. Is a rock concert now a chance to have a glorious choir practice, with added guitars?

The doors of perception it is not.

But he's much better on the business - which is 99.99% what popular music is now.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 02:00:08 PM EST
I've met Miles several times c/o the Bellydance superstars. We've not spoken much, but I'm pretty sure he used to know who I was.

He has always been all about the business, as has Sting. The idea that the Police had any leftish credibility, even back in the 70s, is laughable. Of course, in comparison with the Clash, everybody was faking it. But even the Clash had contradictions they refused to acknowledge; the rock industry demands contradictions and compromise. Any fan who really believes is dopey.

And in some ways that's the nature of rock and roll. It's always amused me that I believe in "proper" rock that has a simple purity as opposed to fake "designed" music (like McCartney said). but of course, the good stuff is what I like and the fake stuff bores me. How convenient.

So we're all compromised, we all bullshit about it. Or is it only a real fan can get worked up enough to care one way or another ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 02:57:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Does anyone need the industry any more? It's always been about contradictions, but there was a period from around the mid-60s to the late 70s when there was a virtuous circle - the industry picked up what was happening at street level and added commercial sponsorship and media exposure, making everything bigger and shinier and more influential. It was all unexpectedly bottom-up.

Now, not so much. 'Indie' rock mostly just sounds immaculate, whiny and corporate to me, and movements have been reduced to emo and other tokenised horrors. Hip hop and rap still shock people, but it's all about the bling and the babes and a bit of gangsta, which are hardly out there on the progressive edge.

But that 60s-70s period seems on its way to being canonised. People still play that music, they still cover it, teens keep rediscovering it, and even when it's reinterpreted in mash-ups it's still potent.

I'm not sure about leftish credibility. Rock against Racism and Red Wedge were always more noisier than effective, and after that, music was almost completely depoliticised - Live Aid was about as good as it got in the 80s. There's still protest folk happening in clubs, but audiences are getting older and protest songs never make the mainstream as they might have thirty years ago. (Sometimes.)

The depression years weren't great for mainstream music - it was mostly 'nice' with occasionally a little bit of naughty - so maybe that's where we are again for the next few years.

I'm not expecting an explosion of anything very new until there's some new recording and performance technology - which there probably won't be for a decade or two.

In the meantime - what music business? iTunes and a bit of touring for those with unusually fine cheekbones is all that's left.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Someone told me about Straight Edge music recently - those post-punks with Xs drawn or tattooed on their hands to denote no booze, no meat, no drugs, no casual sex. Interesting I thought. Until I heard the music. Thrash and Shouting at 115 dB, apparently coming out of a spinal tap that was either full on or off.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the politics left music as the naivety fell away. Once people believed all you needed was a slogan, just as corporates still believe all they need is a name and a logo. But gradually there was a realisation that popularity didn't equal power. Woodstock didn't stop the Vietnam war, Geldof didn't do more than scratch the problem of ethiopia, punk did not defeat the government, God save the queen didn't destroy the monarchy. Impotence bred apathy.

Music is totally corporate now. The licencing laws mean you can barely play music in a pub now, the legit venues are closing, the points of entry are being closed off. As some journo wrote recently, "I watched a video of the nice from the 60s and watching proto-prog rocker Keith emerson stabbing his hammond with a knife was just as preposterous as it sounds. But somehow it was  still a whole lot more like rock and roll than the Arctic Monkeys are ever going to dream of."

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But enormous numbers of people are making music today. It just never gets heard in any msm channel.

Whether more people make music today as % of population compared to, say, the Post-war family piano playing and singing, would be interesting to know. Sheet music sales in the Fifties were staggering.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:51:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In connection with that, the "pretentious Economist lifestyle magazine" piece I just posted a comment about posits that museum going and various other "elite-seeming" cultural activities are at new highs for participation...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 04:07:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
None of it is politically influential though. Uploading a mash-up to YouTube is about as politically castrated and irrelevant as it's possible to be.

One of the things music does is gives people narratives to aspire to. When your highest aspiration is to get five recs and a handful of comments from your work in progress, standards may have slipped a little there.

I don't agree (see Helen's point) that the music and the politics were irrelevant. A lot of people dropped out after Woodstock and tried to live sustainably. Some of them had some very exotic adventures in consciousness, not all of which were created by enthusiastic drug use. Some of them are still around working in renewables and such.

The promised utopia never happened, but considering the buttoned-down up-tight consciousness of the 40s and 50s, a lot changed in a very short time, and strange ideas like sustainability started to have an influence on the mainstream - even if they never dominated it, they became acceptable, and the counter culture which was evangelised by music was a huge driver of that.

Now there's no narrative, so there's no scene, and certainly no politics. Without media exposure - and a few hundred YouTube hits doesn't count - it's almost impossible for a non-trivial mass scene to form.

Elsewhere - the Straight Edger scene is funny. It's been around for at least a decade now that I know of, and I suppose when your parents are the ones having casual sex and snorting, smoking and sniffing all sorts then restraint is the only rebellious place to go. It's a bit odd that the music is post-punk thrash and not - say - Val Doonican, but that's kids for you.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
a) If only they'd gone for post-punk flute thrash, I think they'd be doing better.

b) Not to be too down about things, but isn't it less that music is lacking in narratives, more culture as a whole is lacking narratives?

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
A lot of people dropped out after Woodstock and tried to live sustainably. Some of them had some very exotic adventures in consciousness, not all of which were created by enthusiastic drug use. Some of them are still around working in renewables and such.

Or on blogs and such.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 03:27:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sales of albums slide in the US

Sales of albums in the US dropped by 14% in 2008, but figures rose overall thanks to a surge in digital purchases.

Digital album sales went up by 32%, while singles were 27% up on 2007, according to Nielsen SoundScan.

The year's biggest-selling album was Tha Carter III by Lil'Wayne, while Bleeding Love by Leona Lewis was the top digital track with sales of 3.42m.

Vinyl records also enjoyed an upsurge in 2008, with sales of 1.88m - an 89% increase on the previous year.

The biggest-selling vinyl album was Radiohead's In Rainbows, which shifted 25,800 copies.

Music sales, including physical and digital formats, music videos and ringtones, were more than 1.5 billion in 2008, compared to 1.36 billion in 2007.

It is the fourth consecutive year on record that music sales in the US have topped the billion mark, while digital purchases broke the barrier for the first time in 2008.

But sales of physical releases - CDs, cassettes and vinyl - via internet sites dipped by 8.6%, slipping three million beneath the 30 million mark of 2007.



You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 10:01:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You could make the case that the first part of music's "revolutionary" effect on society began with the filtering of black music into straight amurkan culture, beginning the march to free sexuality.  I would cite Duke Ellington as beginning the process, though he of course was building on others who never achieved his reach.

Producers of the era of the fifties were looking for a white artist who could take the sexy soul of Little Willie John and a horde of other black performers and cross it over.  Elvis did the trick.

In less than a decade, black music was all over the radio, the main delivery system at that time.  Some of it migrated to Europe, where it came back exploded as the British Invasion.  With Elvis in the army in Germany, and the Beatles in Hamburg, it exploded there as well.

However much he wishes to deny it, Bob Dylan added a level of social consciousness or conscience that had never hit the mainstream before.  He wasn't the first, building on Woody Guthrie and Pete Seeger amongst a host, but his explosion was a shot heard round the world.  When he went electric, it presaged the main event.

By the time psychedelia hit the world, the cycle was complete.  The joining of the drug and political cultures affected every art form, from the San Francisco Sound to French cinema.  Sexual barriers had fallen for good, accompanied by overt idealistic politics.

You could also argue that it wasn't long before the industry regained its footing, using glam and the heavier rock sounds to take the revolution back to ego-driven marketing concepts.

But it all really goes back to the melting pot that amurka was, and the influence of the former slaves' music was the primary driver.

The history of New Orleans music is the best example, mixing black-Afro and Carib sounds with the displaced French Acadians, with whorehouses providing the caldrons where the music was mixed.  Even 3rd generation white Texas fiddlers like Bob Wills went there to sop up the mix with their bread, taking Duke Ellington horn charts back to play on three-part (or more) electric strings.

When Peggy Lee turned Little Willy John's "Fever" into required cocktail party music throughout suburbia, the damage was already done.

Then the insane born agains brought abstinence back into the equation, completely forgetting the very sexy "Midnite Rambles" that were the most popular part of every religious tent show.  

Now it's the bedroom produced music of modern technology which will provide the next musical break.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 06:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Little Willie John:  I'm Shakin'

Fever


Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 06:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
btw, here's two videos of Peggy Lee's Fever versions.  Notice how the lyrics have been changed, and the soul has been whitened.  What you can't notice is that Little Willie John was not paid for providing this brilliant pop song.

Black sex became white marketed sex.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 08:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Hey CH, that's virtually a diary, filled with brilliant insights as it is."

"Yeah, i know, but it ain't got no graphs.  I only wrote it so Sven's daughter could do a remix of Peggy, without forgetting Little Willie John and his driving sexuality. "

Robbie Robertson did a great Rimbaud version of a tribute to the sexual awakening brought by Little Willie John.  Notice lying in the back of an abandoned '59 Chevy in the second verse, notice another of my favorite voices, Maria McKee, swaying like a teenage Siren.

Actually, Sven's daughter should check out how Maria evolved from punk country Lone Justice days to the womanly power of Her First Solo Album song Breathe.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 05:17:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's a version by my old pal Pave Maijanen from the 70s. I've always liked his version and it was my intention to play it to the Daughter - so I am glad you reminded me. Sadly she just left for town after coming here to look after me - bless her little cotton socks - but I'll send the link to these for her ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 05:32:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow.  Little Willie John woulda approved.  "Here Boy, take a sip outa this jar."

Hey Randy, don't you have anything constructive to do before the organic markets close?

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 05:41:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Diggin' my potatoes, tramplin' on my vine.... ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 05:49:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a little confused, CH, I listened to both those clips and I didn't notice the major lyrics changes?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 05:57:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They are imo minor but significant. Somewhat like a 'wardrobe malfunction'.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 06:28:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you list what they are?
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 06:42:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
CH was comparing the Little Willie John lyrics to Peggy Lee's version(s) which do not include the Willie 3rd verse and substitute a verse about Romeo and Juliet - thus turning it into a song alluding to romantic rather than sexual love.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 07:04:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See, I knew I was confused!

Thanks, now I'll go look for a LWJ recording.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 07:07:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Little Willie version of fever is the second original CH video post

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 07:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the writers added a fourth verse to Peggy's version, which makes me puke.

"Captain Smith and Pocahantas
had a very mad affair
when her daddy tried to kill him
Daddy no don't you dare
He gives me Fever."

I don't get that Love had much play in LWJ's version.  He got so feverish, he was gettin' a bit violent, which was also a part of post-slave culture.

Where's rg when you need him, to put up a bit of Scriabin.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 08:10:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jellyroll, rock and roll, little red roosters, fish swim so deep, tow me across the pond, etc, the black roots that rock thieved were always bluntly sexual.  

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 08:23:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They are faking it as much as your average corporate ladder climber, your average customer service cyborg and your bus driver, even (though I do know of a countryside bus driver  who apparently loves his work)

Faking it is part of survival. If you are ever attacked by a wolf, lie down exposing your belly, avoid eye contact and urinate. That is faking it.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:33:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Gulfnews: Common Gulf currency project edges ahead

Muscat: Several threads were woven at the 29th GCC Summit but the final stitch was left for the future as the leaders decided to keep the momentum for economic integration in the region going amid global financial meltdown.

At the end of the Summit on Tuesday, the message was clear that despite some reservations and Oman not being part of it, the Common Currency target would remain.

"The monetary union is approved for today ...," Abdul Rahman Al Attiyah, GCC Secretary-General, announced at the end of the Summit.

"I think it is within the time which has been allocated - 2010, unless there are other developments in the mean time," said Al Attiyah

"Let's wait until, Insha Allah, we agree on the location [of the central bank] and the other details," the Secreatry-General said, adding that the decision on the central bank's location would be finalised by mid-2009.

"The location will be discussed between now and the middle of the year to finalise the place of the headquarters of the monetary council, which will lead to the [GCC] central bank."

So the fabric is in place for the single currency's circulation by 2010 but there are a few finer touches.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 03:15:35 PM EST
I wanted to blog this, but I think it's becoming clear I won't get the time:

THE AGE OF MASS INTELLIGENCE | More Intelligent Life

Russell Southwood is queuing outside his local cinema in south London, listening to his iPod. Hip-hop and jazz, as usual. What is less usual is what he is queuing up for: not a film but a live transmission of this season's opening night from the Royal Opera House. "I like hip-hop and opera," he says. "Not a big deal."

That's increasingly true. Every other Saturday, Darren Henley is at the Priestfield football ground cheering on his beloved Gillingham. In the evening, he goes to a concert by the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic or the London Symphony Orchestra, because he is also the boss of Classic FM, a radio station that sponsors those orchestras.

Cultural incongruities are popping up everywhere. When the Guardian, which sponsors the Hay-on-Wye literary festival, picked ten visitors to interview, one turned out to be a check-out clerk at Tesco who saved all his money during the year so he could go to the festival for his holiday. He was far from the most unlikely visitor who might have been found. High-ranking officers from the SAS (Special Air Service), Britain's crack covert-operations regiment--who have to remain anonymous--have been known to spend their holidays each year travelling from their base at Hereford to Hay for lectures on Wordsworth and Darwin.

The sharpest of all these cultural contrasts, though, was the one taking place at the Royal Opera House itself the night Russell Southwood was queuing. Every seat had been taken not by the furs-and-cufflinks brigade but by readers of the Sun, a newspaper not noted for its opera coverage. Amid huffing and puffing from connoisseurs, 2,200 readers of Britain's biggest-selling daily, accompanied by a trio of page-three girls (modestly attired), descended on the house of Handel and Callas for Mozart's "Don Giovanni". The paper celebrated with an inch-high headline: "Well Don, my Sun".

In most rich countries, the old distinction between high and popular culture is breaking down. Isolated examples of this have been seen for a long time. In the 1960s Karlheinz Stockhausen, a doyen of avant-garde music, appeared on the cover of the Beatles' "Sgt Pepper". In the 1990s the Three Tenors found a mass audience for Puccini. But what used to be a characteristic of individuals or particular occasions is now becoming the defining feature of the whole culture.

Millions more people are going to museums, literary festivals and operas; millions more watch demanding television programmes or download serious-minded podcasts. Not all these activities count as mind-stretching, of course. Some are downright fluffy. But, says Donna Renney, the chief executive of the Cheltenham Festivals, audiences increasingly want "the buzz you get from working that little bit harder". This is a dramatic yet often unrecognised development. "When people talk and write about culture," says Ira Glass, the creator of the riveting public-radio show "This American Life", "it's apocalyptic. We tell ourselves that everything is in bad shape. But the opposite is true. There's an abundance of really interesting things going on all around us."

There's a number of holes in the article, but I think there's an interesting core, in that all that educating people we've been doing since WW2, but particularly since the 60s has changed some landscapes.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 04:05:40 PM EST
But then, Italian opera in the 19th century was popular, Dumas and Hugo were read by millions ; on the other hand the impressionists were reviled, the surrealist hung around with prostitutes, Aristophanes is vulgar... The hard separation between "high brow" and "low brow" is constantly exaggerated, and constantly found to be disappearing.

An interesting book on "cultural dissonance" is that of Bernard Lahire, La culture des individus, which shows that most individuals definitely don't fall within well defined "low brow" and "high brow" categories, but rather fall somewhere in between, depending on the class they started in, but also who they met, whether they are trying to climb the social hierarchy, and their own tastes...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of smart people, you are a very smart person?

paul spencer
by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:43:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He's a treasure here.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 07:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I've read Lahire and he's not the first to make these observations. However, there are generalisable trends in cultural consumption and to pretend that it doesn't relate to changes in education and indeed in social class formation is to miss an opportunity to examine more closely both how education and social class formation are changing and also, in reverse, some effects of known changes, particularly to the education system.

It's also worth noting that just because something was popular in the past (Opera, Dumas, Hugo) does not mean that it falls automatically within popular literacy of the present day.

i.e. As you note below, many of the conventions surrounding "high art" were late Victorian vanity inventions. However, they were invented and they did change patterns of consumption.

To run this back to the music thread for a moment, this matters because the story of changes in music consumption is more than just the technology, in fact, given certain effects of the technology the social markers are a more powerful explanation of certain trends.

Finally, to add to the bit about politics that nanne pointed up, the growth of literature festivals is not an innovation, but it is a growth and it does imply a change in the social role of the literature involved, maybe not compared to 150 years ago, but compared to 50 years ago. And that too, is potentially important.

by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 06:08:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My own wee theory is that culture, high or low (but especially low), is used for individual understanding of self and environment, and that the type of channel chosen depends on the speed of change in the environment of the self.

Where social change appears to happen slowly, channels are chosen that 'speed up' insight - like time lapse - and conversely, where change appears rapid, 'slo-mo' channels are chosen.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 06:26:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How much of the change in various cultural events is change in the status attached to various cultural activities ? The cultural habits associated to going to a museum may be becoming more popular, but then "high brow" status may be moving on to other forms where elitism can stay alive. "High brow" isn't a marker of artistic quality but one of social status.

Also, are we so sure that the changes in artistic consumptions in the last century are that deep ? My grand father in the 30's would go to the Opera and to see a popular singer like Damia ; Sartre loved westerns and I'm sure he wasn't the only one.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 08:08:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup, as linca often says, there's more to life than ballet and baseball.  ;-))

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 08:13:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Frankfurt School: from One Dimensional Man, by Herbert Marcuse

In this form it continues, in spite of all democratization and popularization, through the nineteenth and into the twentieth century. The "high culture" in which this alienation is celebrated has its own rites and its own style. The salon, the concert, opera. theater are designed to create and invoke another dimension of reality. Their attendance requires festive-like preparation; they cut off and transcend everyday experience.

Now this essential gap between the arts and the order of the day, kept open in the artistic alienation, is progressively closed by the advancing technological society. And with its closing, the Great Refusal is in turn refused; the .other dimension" is absorbed into the prevailing state of affairs. The works of alienation are themselves incorporated into this society and circulate as part and parcel of the equipment which adorns and psychoanalyzes the prevailing state of affairs. Thus they become commercials - they sell, comfort, or excite.

The neo-conservative critics of leftist critics of mass culture ridicule the protest against Bach as background music in the kitchen, against Plato and Hegel, Shelley and Baudelaire, Marx and Freud in the drugstore. Instead, they insist on recognition of the fact that the classics have left the mausoleum and come to life again, that people are just so much more educated. True, but coming to life as classics, they come to life as other than themselves; they are deprived of their antagonistic force, of the estrangement which was the very dimension of their truth. The intent and function of these works have thus fundamentally changed. If they once stood in contradiction to the status quo, this contradiction is now flattened out.

This has got to be the best quote from the intelligent life piece:

An alternative explanation for the growth of mass intelligence comes from Peter Florence of the Hay Festival. Forty or 50 years ago, he argues, the public appetite for debate and intellectual curiosity was partly met by politics.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 06:11:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And if it needs pointing out, many "high brow" aspects of classical music or art really are late Victorian era inventions : much of the Louvres' painting are about erotic titillation, and Paganini was a guitar hero with a bow. The audience used to clap between each movement at a Beethoven symphony...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 07:01:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sitting in a pub half a block off Times Square.  Exciting!

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 05:35:28 PM EST
Ah, the centre of fake-America, america hatin' america, or whatever rubbish Palin came up with. No chance of a pickup with a rifle rack there, no sirree.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 06:22:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope.  Just a filthy subway, overpriced (but pretty good) food, and ridiculous numbers of people.

Good beer, too.  Lotta real ale in NYC.

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

by Drew J Jones (blahblahblah@blahblahblah.com) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 08:55:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Don't forget to consult the The Gotham Imbiber

If you run into alex, who runs it, tell him you know John Palfrey from Brighton aka the vicar. It might get you a pint.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 06:35:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As if Things Weren't Bad Enough, Russian Professor Predicts End of U.S.
In Moscow, Igor Panarin's Forecasts Are All the Rage; America 'Disintegrates' in 2010

MOSCOW -- For a decade, Russian academic Igor Panarin has been predicting the U.S. will fall apart in 2010. For most of that time, he admits, few took his argument -- that an economic and moral collapse will trigger a civil war and the eventual breakup of the U.S. -- very seriously. Now he's found an eager audience: Russian state media.

In recent weeks, he's been interviewed as much as twice a day about his predictions. "It's a record," says Prof. Panarin. "But I think the attention is going to grow even stronger."

Prof. Panarin, 50 years old, is not a fringe figure. A former KGB analyst, he is dean of the Russian Foreign Ministry's academy for future diplomats. He is invited to Kremlin receptions, lectures students, publishes books, and appears in the media as an expert on U.S.-Russia relations.

(...)

He based the forecast on classified data supplied to him by FAPSI analysts, he says. He predicts that economic, financial and demographic trends will provoke a political and social crisis in the U.S. When the going gets tough, he says, wealthier states will withhold funds from the federal government and effectively secede from the union. Social unrest up to and including a civil war will follow. The U.S. will then split along ethnic lines, and foreign powers will move in.

California will form the nucleus of what he calls "The Californian Republic," and will be part of China or under Chinese influence. Texas will be the heart of "The Texas Republic," a cluster of states that will go to Mexico or fall under Mexican influence. Washington, D.C., and New York will be part of an "Atlantic America" that may join the European Union. Canada will grab a group of Northern states Prof. Panarin calls "The Central North American Republic." Hawaii, he suggests, will be a protectorate of Japan or China, and Alaska will be subsumed into Russia.



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 07:20:18 PM EST
I was stunned by that, and meant to post it, so thanks J.  Enjoy poemless.

he's probably forgetting that even though the hole amurka has dug itself is so deep, the indefatigable amurkan spirit is not a myth, and who knows what's coming?

I was stunned tonight when the proprietor of the first Kino i visited in Bremen (Woody Allen's Vicky Christina Barcelona) regaled me with how Obama is going to pull it off.  Basing it on hidden amurkan ingenuity.

i tried to tell him the hole was too deep, but he got me flooded with hope and change, which i succumb to often.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 at 07:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Crazy Horse:
Woody Allen's Vicky Christina Barcelona

One of the most disappointing movies I've seen last year. I would have thought any movie with those actresses should have been awesome, but the only character that was not completely flat was Bardem's. The others figured as puppets in Allen's over-narrated and unnecessary story.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 04:05:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was also disappointed, but decided to wait to see it in Englisch before final judgement.  It did however, make me want to go to Barcelona.

What spoiled it for me was that there were no character or sexuality insights.  Flat, that's probably the right word.

scarlett was not believable, going from a digital camera to a full darkroom in a week or two, while pouting her lips in several different directions at the same time.

i did ask the two girls next to me if they wanted to take my helicopter to Oviedo now, and they declined.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 04:51:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm really looking forward to the Francoise Sagan film tonight, though i'd rather see it in french with english subtitles than with German overdubs.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 04:53:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Please note that Alaska returns to Russia.

Can anyone now doubt that Gov Palin knows what she's talking about on foreign policy?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 03:41:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So much fail in one little picture. All he's showing there is his cluelessness about the tribes of the US. I don't know much, but I know that's wrong.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 06:26:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I understand it, the basic idea has been around for a while and is probably not Panarin's to begin with. It originates from within North America.

The Middlebury Institute
for the study of separatism, secession, and self-determination. A website where you learn, among other things, that the Third North American Secessionist Convention was held in New Hampshire in 2008.

And to put things in context:

NY Times: A Vision of a Nation No Longer in the U.S.

Back in 1981, the journalist Joel Garreau published "The Nine Nations of North America," mapping out how economics, geography and culture really made it more logical for the United States, Canada and Mexico to be nine nations than three.



You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.
by Vagulus on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 08:00:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then, there's always the sustainability-based secessionist novel from Ernest Callenbach, ECOTOPIA.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 08:40:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Context? Context? Come on, you can't deny the folks at the WSJ a little bit of doom porn, plus stirring the anti-Russian sentiment (what's not to like?).

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 10:07:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bar them from a legal pleasure? Perish the thought! Tell me though, for my peace of mind, are you sure the WSJ finest are regular readers of this forum?

You're clearly a dangerous pinko commie pragmatist.
by Vagulus on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Probably not, although some ETribbers are known to read the WSJ sometimes.

So I guess the WSJ regulars can safely rest in the reassurance that this notion of the US undoing is a foreign threat from evil Russia; no domestic terrorism here, no siree...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 12:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Good Professor is imbibing the funny weed.

New Mexico shares nothing with the old Confederacy.  We're different from them in regards to languages, culture, economics, history, politics ... you name it.

We have little ties to the mess that is Mexico outside of Mexicans-as-family -- a different thing.  Nationals are buying homes and land here to protect their families from kidnapping, crime, police corruption, & etc.  

The more likely alignment of New Mexico in the event of a break-up is based on the watersheds of the southern Rockies: Colorado, Rio Grande, Pecos Rivers.  This includes the states of New Mexico, Arizona, Southern Colorado, Southern Utah, and the Southeast parts of Nevada.  This area, in turn, will look to California and to the Mid-West for food/trade.  

Madness takes its toll. Have exact change ready

by ATinNM on Sat Jan 3rd, 2009 at 11:48:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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