UK election : Straws in the wind

by Helen
Wed Dec 16th, 2009 at 07:40:29 AM EST

Sometime between now and May Gordon Brown will announce the next General election. Most people assume that the date will be May 6th but, depending on which polls you choose to believe, the date could even be brought forward to March 25th. The advantage of the earlier date is that it avoids what will probably be an embarrassing set of budget announcements.

Confusingly, the polls are going in different directions. Two released this weekend show the problem;-

One in the Times shows the tory lead over Labour reducing to 9%

Today's YouGov poll for the Sunday Times puts Labour on 31%, just nine points behind the Tories, who are on 40%. The Liberal Democrats have fallen two points to 16%. Only last weekend the Conservatives were still enjoying a comfortable 13-point lead.

while another, in the Independent shows the lead increasing to 17%.

David Cameron's party is up two points on last month, on 41 per cent, while Labour has slipped one point to 24 per cent. The Liberal Democrats are up four points on 21.

The ComRes survey for The Independent on Sunday also exposes how Gordon Brown's strategy of attacking Mr Cameron's Etonian background has fallen flat with voters.

frontpaged - Nomad


I don't think this is incoherent so much as showing how different parts of the electorate are trending in different directions. I suspect the working classes are trending right in response to the tabloid campaign against Brown while the middle classes are recoiling from the tories as more of their plans are revealed.

Quite how this plays out I don't know cos it's a long time till polling day and nothing is really settled. It really depends on what plans each party have for changing the game in the next 3 - 4 months.

I don't think I'm alone in thinking that I want them both to lose. Labour talked left but acted like a rightwing party. Long before Bush was elected Blair was dumping cast iron electoral promises overboard with happy abandon and Brown has been no better. I have learned to hate NuLab with a passion and cannot easily vote for them while that faction still dominates. I voted Labour in 1997 and got a conservative government who cacked the country up. I have finally tired of voting for them in the hope of anything better. It will be hard to vote again and endorse this catastrophic neoconservative government.

Yet much more than NuLab, I despise the conservatives. Part of my anger with NuLab is that they've taken away the obvious protest vote against the tories. Cameron and Osborne will ruin the country by greenspanning us to death. Their plan of attack on the deficit will be a bonfire of services to the poor and even medium well off. Wealth capture will be accelerated and the country will be tipped upside down to ferret out the very last bit of worth for the already rich to plunder.

But who will win ?

I'd love to be able to say I don't care; but I do. It matters. Labour make me feel bad about my country, but the Tories would have me fear for our future. However, if pushed I'm reckoning on a hung parliament. I think Labour will lose loads of seats but not enough for Cameron the Terrible to form a government that cannot be voted down.

The uncertainty is over the future of other parties. In England the Lib Dems seem to be accumulating support but I suspect that this will not help them retain seats and expect them to lose many to Labour. This depends on the Vince Cable factor. If he is front and centre in the campaign then he may seem like a reliable and trusted face in time of uncertainty, but if Nick "Mr Who?" Clegg, a man far too facially similar to Cameron for his own good, dominates the Lib Dem vote will collapse.

But watch Scotland. The political landscape for the next two or three decades will be decided there. If the tories win this election outright, Scotland will push for greater independence and that will mean that, under the first past the post electoral system, conservatives will rule England forever.

If it's a hung parliament, Scotland will probably stay in the UK and nothing will be settled.

How am I voting ? I live in a pink pussycat tory constituency, ie the tories could put up a stuffed toy and still win, so my vote is meaningless. Under first past the post one does not have the luxury of voting for what you want, that leads to wasted votes when winner takes all. You have to vote to prevent what you hate from winning. While I hate NuLab, I fear the tories more and will vote accordingly.

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I don't think this is incoherent so much as showing how different parts of the electorate are trending in different directions. I suspect the working classes are trending right in response to the tabloid campaign against Brown while the middle classes are recoiling from the tories as more of their plans are revealed.
Why would ComRes/The Independent poll be skewed towards polling the working class and the YouGov/Times poll the middle class?

Could there be a correlation between the fact that the YouGov poll gives a more favourable result for Labour and the fact that YouGov's president is a certain Peter Kellner, husband of that obscure lady Catherine Ashton who happens to be a Labour politician?

What are the political leanings of ComRes?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Dec 13th, 2009 at 03:54:21 PM EST
I must admit I wondered about that. But simply couldn't find a satisfactory answer.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Dec 13th, 2009 at 04:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It doesn't look to me like it's moved a lot.  Here's a good site that I've been keeping up on it with.  The Tories seem to be consistently hitting about 40%.  Labour seems to be hitting the high-20s (occasionally low-30s/mid-20s).  That's not much change from the summer or spring, if I remember correctly.

Tories are probably going to win outright, but I agree with Helen that it looks like there's a chance of a hung parliament if the race tightens substantially.  That's conceivable, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.

I'm not sure what the odds are of Scotland ditching the UK.  If that's likely under a Tory government, I suspect Helen's right that the Tories will rule Britain for the foreseeable future.  Which is worrying, because if the Tories are free to do as they please, it's not going to be pretty, I'm guessing.

Maybe not so much of an issue in the first term if their majority isn't very large.  Big issue if they build a substantial lead in the second term.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sun Dec 13th, 2009 at 10:38:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
UK Polling Report
Yesterday I said I hoped we would get some voting intention polls that would help us judge how the PBR had actually gone down. Today we have no fewer than 3 new voting intention polls, but are none the wiser as to what effect the PBR had on Labour support as they directly contradict each other!


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Dec 13th, 2009 at 04:13:05 PM EST
The two polls cited are probably at either end of the margin of error. To draw any conclusions we need to look at the trend on a longer run of polls.

So far as Lib Dem prospects are concerned, I get the impression the leadership is trying to persuade the party activists that they are poised for gains. I am not persuaded. If the Conservatives advance a bit and the Labour party does not completely collapse, as seems to be the position on current polls, the LibDems could find that they lose a lot of the existing seats.

by Gary J on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 09:50:04 AM EST
From Drew's link they're reporting 82% of poll respondents think the economy is bad and a whacking 40% saying the economy is very bad.  

If this was the US I'd expect a sweep election.  Lo and behold voting preference is going 40/29 against NuLabour.

Figure a Conservative parliamentary majority will result, the question being how big.  The only way to answer that is a seat-by-seat analysis.  Usually sweep elections result in a larger majority than they 'should' as the sweeping party captures a larger percentage of Swing Voters, capturing a greater number of marginal seats.  

Sorry everybody but the notion of a hung parliament is unlikely unless the situation changes.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:00:52 PM EST
If Brown's hoping to win this by attacking Cameron's Etonian background, he's kidding himself, too.  Class warfare isn't going to work when the government has no credibility on the issue with the public, and when it's blatantly the result of a desperate PM.

Again: A hung parliament is conceivable, but I'd bet on the blowout long before that.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 06:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If Brown's hoping to win this by attacking Cameron's Etonian background, he's kidding himself, too.

NuLabour needs to get down and dirty.  I humbly submit the following classic attack:

"Cameron has been known to masticate in public and his daughter was a notorious, flagrant, thespian at her university."

The Monster Raving Loony Party vote IS, after all, up for grabs.

(Oh man.  With Brown at the helm Labour is going to get slaughtered.)


No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 07:11:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thing is, as you said, even if Labour could figure out a strategy, Brown doesn't have the political instincts to implement it.  The guy's just an awful politician.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 07:20:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
European Tribune - UK election : Straws in the wind
How am I voting ? I live in a pink pussycat tory constituency, ie the tories could put up a stuffed toy and still win, so my vote is meaningless. Under first past the post one does not have the luxury of voting for what you want, that leads to wasted votes when winner takes all. You have to vote to prevent what you hate from winning. While I hate NuLab, I fear the tories more and will vote accordingly.

I do not get how you think here.

If a conservative victory in your district is a given, there is no need to hold your nose and vote NuLab there. On the contrary it is a good opportunity to vote green/libdem/unreformed communist/pacifist/pirate/whoever to show that your vote is not a given for NuLab, while it is there to be gained against the conservatives for a party with sane policies.

On the other hand, if it is tight contest where you live then I do understand holding your nose and voting NuLab as the lesser of two evils.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:29:50 AM EST
Yes, that's a fair breakdown of the issue.

As there is no chance of anything other than a tory victory I will vote my consicence (Green probably). But if I were in a more contested constituency I would vote to do my best to make the tory lose, even if that were NuLab.

I just wish there was a different voting system to more honestly express my preference

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 05:43:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm in another completely safe Tory seat.

After 1997 I don't necessarily agree that most seats are safe. But there's a solid minority that are unlikely to change without significant redistricting, and this is certainly one of them.

The tragedy here is that Labour and Lib/Dem votes are evenly split. Together they could bring down the incumbent. But that would mean strategising and self-sacrifice, and both parties would rather lose than waste their time on that.

Since it doesn't make a difference, I usually vote Green (sic).

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 06:01:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
but i would like to voice a word of support for Brown. It's not clear whether last year crisis really changed him or he is just pretending but since London april G20 summit it seems that he undergone quite a transformation. He seems to act as a believer in international aid, climate change, curbing bank excesses etc. Not sure about conbservatives whether they will continue these progressive policies of Brown.

I think that Brown will try to scare British public, middle classes by prospect of massive cuts on welfare by conservatives, and Thatcherism. Not sure whether this trick would work as Brown just till yesterday was firmly in neocon-monetarist camp.

of course NuLabor's foreign policies have been always awful and foreign secretary Miliband is disgusting but I doubt that foreign policies will affect much decision the British public will make.

by FarEasterner (avdavydov@yandex.ru) on Thu Dec 17th, 2009 at 01:39:48 AM EST
Not sure about conbservatives whether they will continue these progressive policies of Brown.

I'm not in the least bit in doubt: They won't.

That aside, talk is cheap. And that's all we're seeing. And, as some of us were fond of reminding the Kossacks during the last American presidential campaign, the past tense of "talk" is "talked." It is not "policy."

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 17th, 2009 at 06:49:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I remian unconvinced that Brown doesn't retain at least one foot in the neocon camp. He is too intellectually convinced of the rightness of their viewpoint to recant.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Dec 17th, 2009 at 07:15:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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