Monday Open Thread

by afew
Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 10:58:38 AM EST

Here Comes The Night


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And snow...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 10:59:58 AM EST
forcasts of that for us keep drifting from id to end of week.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:06:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it scheduled to last long ? I thought temps were raising after this lot went through

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:41:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No. But a cold week on our forecasts.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:58:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC to offer journalism masterclasses free online | Media | guardian.co.uk

The public will be able to gain online access to masterclasses delivered by some of the BBC's best-known journalists, including John Simpson and John Humphrys, under plans to be announced later today.

BBC executives plan to let licence-fee payers use the corporation's internal training website, which includes thousands of hours of material, as part of a range of partnership agreements. Rival news organisations and broadcasters will also be able to use the material.

The BBC claims the website is the most comprehensive of its type in the world. Other journalists who contribute material include the BBC business editor, Robert Peston, and the security correspondent, Frank Gardner.

This initiative will be unveiled later today at the official launch of the BBC Academy, the corporation's dedicated centre of excellence for training in journalism, production, leadership and technology.



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:05:59 AM EST
Dammit, they beat me to it... No... wait a minute. They didn't.

The journalism section is a very good idea. Technology will be useful. But as for production and leadership - I am not sure the BBC training in these is reliable, except in a very local context. The Beeb loses quality and common sense as you go up the organization.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:15:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well after the good BBC story, a not so good one.

BBC deletes important story on toxic waste dumping in the Ivory Coast after legal threats, 12 Dec 2009 - Wikileaks

BBC deletes important story on toxic waste dumping in the Ivory Coast after legal threats, 12 Dec 2009


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:22:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is outrageous: both the act itself, and the suppression of the report. The company in question and their legal representation need to be harrassed in such a way that they may change their ways. The law is obviously not of any use - but a spot of people power could do the trick.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:31:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was aware of the Carter-Ruck failure to silence, but not the detail of what happened at the Ivory Cast end.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:33:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Coast

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Evidently the person who said "Publish and be damned !!" didn't understand British libel laws.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:39:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or did.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:58:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Having been there I can assure you that the News service is pretty shambolic. The Today show gets their editorial direction from reading the Daily Mail (no word of a lie - I've seen it).

Anything else comes from Reuters or AP newswires. Which may be honourable fro breaking news but I have been staggered by the lack of issue expertise at the BBC. Even in the political department most of the journos are entirely disinterested in politics, only giving a damn about who's up or who's down; personalising everything. No wonder we are Celerity culture obsessed, even politics is all about the messanger not the message. Understanding policy or how it has changed, or even that some ideas might have been implemented before; who cares ? Who gives a damn ? It's only infotainment.

I've been on a BBC training course. We were supposed to create a news segment. I jokingly opened the paper and said let's fake something about this story. A week later the very same story appeared on the 6 o'clock.

BBC News. I sh!t 'em

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean "uninterested" not "disinterested". At least the BBC wouldn't accept bile-laden, anecdotal tirades like this. To add some balance (though I think that's too often over-rated by the BBC and much of mainstream US news media):

"The Ten O'Clock News, Newsnight, Panorama and the Today programme are still our flagships and they still have devoted audiences.

BBC News is still, by far, the most trusted source of news in the United Kingdom, as the recent Press Gazette survey showed; and it still attracts the biggest audiences.

...There has been no seismic change in our audiences' attitudes to us; and in the industry our reputation rides high.

Last week (2005) at the Royal Television Society Journalism Awards, the BBC won 10 out of 16 categories - including two awards for Newsnight; three for Panorama, produced by our colleagues in current affairs; and the News Programme Of The Year award for the Ten O'Clock News."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newswatch/ifs/low/newsid_4310000/newsid_4319400/4319429.stm

"February 27th, 2009 Posted by Judith Townend in Broadcasting, Event:

"As Tony Burman predicted, the `news channel of the year' award at last night's Royal Television Society awards didn't go to Al Jazeera. Instead, it went to the BBC - who did rather well on the night in several categories."

 http://blogs.journalism.co.uk/editors/2009/02/27/royal-television-society-journalism-award-winners-i n-full/

"When asked if this means the BBC is attempting to set a standard for British journalists, Ray suggests it's not journalism per se which needs an image make-over: "In the last YouGov survey [measuring trust], 'journalist' was broken down into tabloid, broadsheet and broadcast journalist. Whereas the single word 'journalist' was sub-estate agent, when you split them up tabloid journalist was at the bottom and broadcast journalist was almost at the top."

Ray goes on to say that the reputation of a journalist is largely dependent on the openness and accountability of the organisation they work for, and the BBC's revamped complaints procedure and NewsWatch, which allows viewers to challenge editors, means both these areas are being addressed."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/bbc-sends-its-staff-back-to-school-516272.html

"The report states that the BBC's performance in reporting the UK is seen as consistently superior to that of other broadcasters and nearly 70 per cent considered that the BBC accurately and fairly represented their nations and communities to the rest of the UK. However, it highlighted concerns that BBC news and current affairs programmes are not reporting some areas with the same high standards. Political coverage was seen as unduly focused on Westminster and there was evidence that stories from the nations were not taken up by the network."

http://www.nuj.org.uk/innerPagenuj.html?docid=836

"BBC scoops Emmys for Wild China and Storyville
Date: 22.09.2009

Last night's 30th News and Documentary Emmy Awards in New York saw the BBC win awards for both the highly-acclaimed Storyville documentary strand and for BBC Bristol's Natural History Unit six-part landmark series, Wild China.

...

Storyville also scooped three awards at the ceremony. Taxi To The Dark Side, an in-depth look at the suspicious death of an Afghan taxi driver in US custody during the War on Terror, triumphed in two separate categories - Best Documentary and Outstanding Individual Achievement in a Craft: Research.

The film was commissioned by Storyville's Nick Fraser and was shown on BBC Two as part of the Why Democracy? season, exploring the state of democracy in the world.

Meanwhile, The Chuck Show picked up the award in the Outstanding Arts and Culture Programming category.
...

Storyville also had a successful night at the Primetime Emmy Awards on 20 September.

Roman Polanski: Wanted And Desired won two awards - Outstanding Directing for Non-Fiction Programming and Outstanding Writing for Non-Fiction Programming.

...
George Entwistle, Controller, BBC Knowledge Commissioning, says: "I'm delighted that the BBC's creativity and excellence in documentary film was recognised with such fantastic success at the Emmy Awards - well done to all involved."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2009/09_september/22/emmys.shtml

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 07:37:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is nice. But they still rolled over for Carter Ruck when bloggers - bloggers - refused to.

And the BBC stood so solidly behind Andrew Gilligan after he blew the whistle on the sexed up Saddam scoop that he's now working for Iranian TV.

I've had professional dealings with the BBC - they hired me to consult and do a very short expert slot on one of their shows - and they were indeed hopelessly shambolic and disorganised.

The BBC has always been the blandified voice of the establishment - occasionally authoritative, but utterly toothless in the face of real corruption, for the tragically obvious reason that it can't criticise governments aggressively when it relies on those governments for its income.

As for awards - the media are never self-congratulatory, of course.

Rather too much of the top BBC reporting and editorial talent makes the NYT op-ed team look expert.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 08:06:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Which is nice. But they still rolled over for Carter Ruck when bloggers - bloggers - refused to."

Oh well, I wonder why ? Could it possibly be that the BBC is more financially vulnerable, given British libel law,  to well-paid libel specialists than are a multitude of bloggers ?

"And the BBC stood so solidly behind Andrew Gilligan after he blew the whistle on the sexed up Saddam scoop that he's now working for Iranian TV."

As you well know, a very complicated case which proves little about the BBC in general.

"I've had professional dealings with the BBC - they hired me to consult and do a very short expert slot on one of their shows - and they were indeed hopelessly shambolic and disorganised."

Oh sure, on the basis of your personal - completely objective of course - account - the BBC must be "hopelessly shambolic and disorganised."  That's how they get out widely respected world-wide news coverage in a variety of forms every day.

"The BBC has always been the blandified voice of the establishment - occasionally authoritative, but utterly toothless in the face of real corruption, for the tragically obvious reason that it can't criticise governments aggressively when it relies on those governments for its income."

Oh it's SO easy and self-congratulatory to mock from the sidelines and the fact is that despite its vulnerability to government funding it has been critical and many politicians can only wish, while they're being grilled by Paxman, Humphreys, etc., that your caricature were true.

"As for awards - the media are never self-congratulatory, of course."

Maybe; but they have choices and the awards tend to reflect the BBC's general reputation.

"Rather too much of the top BBC reporting and editorial talent makes the NYT op-ed team look expert."

Generalised jeering is unconvincing.


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:52:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So a bunch of luvvies tell another bunch of luvvies that they were marvellous dahling kissie kissie mwah mwah. And that proves .. what precisely ?

I greatly appreciate the BBC. Their existence keeps the rest of the media honest. When Rupert has his way with the government, there will be nothing to stop Sky News becoming the same right wing lying trash that Fox News has become. Even the Daly Mail has to keep one foot in reality, however much the BBC tracks it.

But that doesn't mean I don't lambast it for that which it does badly. And it is very much stuck in a comfort zone. With honourable exceptions such as Panorama and some sections of Newsnight (both of which have suffered in recent years; Panorama has been all but cancelled, Newsnight is constantly under a budget constraint other depts seem to avoid) their jounalism has withered.

Uninterested, disinterested ? Ms Truss, it doesn't matter. They don't care. Really. People who report on politics for the BBC don't care about policy, aren't intrigued by implications, don't see contradictions. They just go for quotes and scuttlebutt about who's up or who's down.

This matters. Don't you see ? Really !! This is exactly why blogs came into their own, because the trad med were doing such a f-ck awful job of looking at what was going on, reducing it down to an ongoing series of "I'm a politician, get me outta here".

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just to be clear, I have my own criticisms of the BBC, I even did a long critique of BBC radio London's reporting of the London tube/bus bombing.  But I did base the criticism on a careful study of the evidence. I don't approve of general BBC bashing based on very limited personal experience.

"So a bunch of luvvies tell another bunch of luvvies that they were marvellous dahling kissie kissie mwah mwah. And that proves .. what precisely ?"

Just that, as usual, you prefer jeering to argument and evidence -  a luxury the BBC doesn't have. The "luvvies" have choices and their choices coincide with the opinions of the majority of Brits and many people in other countries. You ignore the survey results.

"I greatly appreciate the BBC. Their existence keeps the rest of the media honest."

One one hardly have thought so from your diatribe. I welcome your more considered statement.

"But that doesn't mean I don't lambast it for that which it does badly. And it is very much stuck in a comfort zone."

Oh sure, it must be terribly comfortable to be the subject of government attempts to control what you say and left and right wing complaints of bias, not to mention the complaints of special-interest groups such as the Zionist lobby.

 "With honourable exceptions such as Panorama and some sections of Newsnight (both of which have suffered in recent years; Panorama has been all but cancelled, Newsnight is constantly under a budget constraint other depts seem to avoid) their jounalism has withered."

Nobody claims the BBC is perfect, nor that it hasn't suffered from cuts.

"Uninterested, disinterested ? Ms Truss, it doesn't matter."

Can you imagine the BBC giving a reply like that.

 "They don't care. Really. People who report on politics for the BBC don't care about policy, aren't intrigued by implications, don't see contradictions. They just go for quotes and scuttlebutt about who's up or who's down."

Totally ridiculous generalisation based on a few personal experiences evidently seen in an extremely biased way - pretty much par for your comments on many groups you don't happen to like.  

"This matters. Don't you see ? Really !! This is exactly why blogs came into their own, because the trad med were doing such a f-ck awful job"

Oh really, based on what evidence ? The fact is that, as indicated in the quotations I cited, the majority of the population still relies on and trusts the BBC. But of course they're all fools and you know better.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:47:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. This day is always the sweetest day.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:34:53 AM EST
This week in communicable disease surveillance, eurosclerosis

The U.S. may have avoided the Japanese disease of prolonged stagnation only to end up with a dose of eurosclerosis: chronically high unemployment in a growing economy....

Persistent European-style unemployment means that the Federal Reserve, which holds its last policy meeting of the year Tuesday and Wednesday, won't raise its benchmark interest rate from near zero through 2010, according to Curtis Arledge, co- head of U.S. fixed income in New York at BlackRock Inc., the world's largest asset manager.



Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:44:00 AM EST
Yeah, because the US didn't already have jobless recovery in the last three recessions.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:53:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
jobless recoveries explained:

Stock prices will continue to rise as companies boost profits by concentrating on cutting costs [read, human labor, payroll] and getting more out of their workers, says Allen Sinai, president of Decision Economics in New York. Employee output per hour [read, productivity] rose at an 8.1 percent annual rate in the third quarter, according to the Labor Department, the fastest pace in six years.

Rising Corporate Profits

Sinai sees profits for the companies making up the Standard & Poor's 500 Index climbing by more than 20 percent next year. Third-quarter corporate profits increased 11 percent, the biggest gain since the first three months of 2004, the Commerce Department reported Nov. 24. The S&P 500 has rallied 64 percent to 1,106.41 from a 12-year low in March.

Annual economic growth in 2011 will be 2.8 percent, according to the median forecast in the Bloomberg News survey -- slower than the average annual rate of 3 percent in the decade before the recession began in December 2007.

Shaving off 0.1 pt delta YoY 2009 - 2010 nominal GNP? That's ballsy. Or imputed inflation, attributable to forecast fed funds rate increase Q4 2010.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 12:19:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
[Europe.Is.Doomed™ Alert]

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:53:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How much sugar is too much sugar ! « Skeptic Barista

Whilst out in Loughborough today I took a short cut through Boots Pharmacy. On the way I couldn't resist having a look at the range of Homeopathic remedies on sale.

I picked up a small box of Nelson's 30C Arnica homeopathic remedy.  I began reading the wording on the box and became curious at the instructions explaining what to do if you take an overdose!  The advice given was to seek advice from a doctor or pharmacist, taking the label with you.

I wondered what advice I would be given if I had accidentally (or deliberately) taken too many of these innocent looking sugar pills.  At a 30C dilution there is no active ingredient in the pill.  Homeopathic remedies are often sold as 'safe' and yet here were clear instructions telling me an overdose was possible and to seek professional advice.



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 11:59:42 AM EST
You can overdose on water (not just from drowning)

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yup
A woman who competed in a radio station's contest to see how much water she could drink without going to the bathroom died of water intoxication, the coroner's office said Saturday.
Too much water disturbs the electrolytic balance of the body.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yet every few months there's another person who has died from doing that.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Breaking scuttlebut: "Some significant no-shows". Parsons, Mack, Blankenfein.

Attendance roll: Dimon, Lewis.

BTW, the fog lifted by sunrise. Matter o' fact, last night after the rain stopped and as the atmosphere thickened, Militan Electician remarked, "It's getting warmer." I said it is a beautiful day in the neighborhood, didn't I?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 12:39:57 PM EST
Provide him with an open goal, and your head on a plate, and judt watch him not take the oppertunity.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 01:01:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Damn, bebe. That comment's more cryptic than I'd have ever expected from you.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 02:14:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've got a "permanent" apartment which I will move into on January 2. It's at the top of Potrero hill; it has a good view of the mission district and if it isn't foggy there is a clear view to the golden gate bridge about six miles away. On the downside, it's about a 250 foot climb from the train station to my place. Luckily I'll have a motorcycle sometime in the spring that I'll drive to and from the station.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 12:52:34 PM EST
you lazy wotsit. climbing the hill will do you good

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 01:27:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not impressed - I have to climb 160m every day to get to work....
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 01:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome to San Francisco!  I can tell you that the hill climb will seem daunting at first but before you know it you'll forget all about it.  Anywhere you walk in this town is "uphill" at some point.  

First thing I recommend is you head over to Potrero/24th and walk all the way up to Mission St.  Don't miss Balmy Alley on the way.

by paving on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 02:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oh hey, I didn't know you lived in the bay area. A friend of mine lived on Potrero for several years so I'm familiar with the climb. The motorcycle isn't so much to avoid the climb as it is to save time after long train rides to and from San Jose where I work.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:04:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A new light rail line opened out that way in the past year or so, the T-3rd st.  Nice way to get downtown if you're on that side Potrero.

You can drink beer on Caltrain, a massive novelty in the States.

by paving on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also the key point is how far is your office in SJ from the Caltrain station. Some big names like Intel, HP, Cisco... run bus shuttles to and fro the Caltrain.

But yes, a bike is very convenient :)

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, no shuttle buses for me sadly. Boutique companies like Apple and Google run shuttle buses all the way from San Francisco. I take the caltrain to Mountain View and then the VTA light rail to north San Jose. The caltrain to Santa Clara and biking to work from there would shave some time, but every conceivable route involves high speed roads I am not willing to hop on with a bicycle.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My current sublease at 20th and Minnesota is in the perfect location - Caltrain two block this way, 3rd street line to downtown one block that way.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:11:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What kind of motorcycle? I'm thinking classic Triumph? BMW R69S? Or Vespa? How about a mid-70's Kawasaki 500 two-stroke triple???

I wish I were allowed a motorcycle.  :-(

by asdf on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 10:39:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure at this point - but odds are it will be in the KBR650 realm.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 02:19:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
sorry - XR650. Some sort of dual sport bike that I can take to south america.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 02:21:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pour Carla Bruni-Sarkozy, un seul mandat de son mari suffirait
«En tant qu'épouse, un mandat me suffirait»


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 01:09:21 PM EST


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 02:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
«En tant qu'épouse, un mandat me suffirait»

En tant que français, un mandat est déjà trop (as a Frenchman, one mandate is too much already).

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:10:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This came out on Saturday, but I missed it. Did anyone note this news?

Goldman Fueled AIG Gambles
By Serena Ng And Carrick Mollemkamp, Wall Street Journal

Goldman originated or bought protection from AIG on about $33 billion of the $80 billion of U.S. mortgage assets that AIG insured during the housing boom. That is roughly twice as much as Société Générale and Merrill Lynch, the banks with the biggest exposure to AIG after Goldman, according an analysis of ratings-firm reports and an internal AIG document that details several financial firms' roles in the transactions.

In Goldman's biggest deal, it acted as a middleman between AIG and banks, taking on the risk of as much as $14 billion of mortgage-related investments. Then Goldman insured that risk with one trading partner--AIG, according to the Journal's analysis and people familiar with the trades.

The trades yielded Goldman less than $50 million in profits, which were mostly booked from 2004 to 2006, according to a person familiar with the matter. But they piled risks onto AIG's books, which later came to haunt the insurer and Goldman. The trades also gave Goldman a unique window into AIG's exposure to losses on securities linked to mortgages.

I believe a lot of the news was already known about how Goldman profited from the housing bubble and the bailout, but some interstingly BIG numbers from the Murdoch Street Journal nonetheless.

by Magnifico on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 02:24:05 PM EST
This is perhaps a redundant comment, but more evidence that without the government bailout of AIG, Goldman Sachs would be little more than a smoking crater in the ground...
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Introducing AutocompleteMe.com.  They have teh funny.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 02:40:37 PM EST
Went to visit a nursery today.
It will probably have to be the one: there aren't that many other possibilities -thus far we found one other nursery in the area, that was in the opposite direction from going to work, and was distinctly dodgy.

On the plus side, it was very nice.

Now, the thing is, this is London. So there is the small matter of the price.
For an under 2, it's the small matter of 1430£ a month.

I always felt that I didn't belong in the rat race and consumption simply wasn't my thing. So that I shouldn't need to run after too high a salary and instead focus on my family. Something that is against everything the neolibs want you to do of course.

In a shot of genius, the neolib-owned government managed to make having children something driving you back to consumerist society -that's 1430£ before you even start having dinner!

No wonder people end up being materialist.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:08:45 PM EST
Did I miss an announcement?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:22:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dear me, we went to bed too early and I missed all the replies!

There was no major annoucenement, although I mentioned it in a few posts. There has been no birth of yet, but we're expecting a son in February, which is particularly nice when there were fears that it might not have been possible for us.

Mind you, maybe it was nature telling us "you're going to LONDON stupid!" ;-)

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:02:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good: I didn't miss anything! How is your lovely wife doing?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:12:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, she appears to have eaten a football (the one that Henry handled, in order to destroy the evidence) but somehow it seems not to hurt her much.

I think she is looking forward to her 6 (probably it will be 7 actually) months of maternity leave, starting on 12th January. Not because she can't cope though: she's still walking to the office most days, she's having a very smooth pregnancy.
Although we have a very bad-mannered son who kicks women (well, a woman at least) many times a day, with increasing force. Whatever happened to chivalry?


"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:19:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think teaching him chivalry is probably your job. It doesn't appear to come pre-installed.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:31:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Isn't Chivalry a way to tame unruly males without spoiling their fightworthiness?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:46:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Possibly, but we are talking about fighting a 1,6m tall, pregnant woman, not the scariest of prospects. Surely fightworthiness could be better used -and surely that's not tamed enough.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 06:06:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
pregnant woman, not the scariest of prospects

I don't know. They fight mean.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 06:48:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
now you know why bankers get such large bonuses, it's the only way they can afford to live here.

I guess a beer over xmas is out of the question with young 'un

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Two replies to that:

-I'd default on my mortgage for the chance of a beer with you.

-There won't be a young-un for Christmas just yet.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:04:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
1430£ a month.

HOLYmaryMUTteraGOTT!

I paid £2800 p.a. for St. Marks half day (Primrose Hill) c. 2003. (Elsewhere on the innerboobz I've related the tale about cheap carrying cost of GBP in my bra.) I tried organizing nanny share. I consulted a creche start-up.

Dude. Is the mini-me toilet trained? That's a whole other market. You give up too easy or you're trolling for sympathy.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:43:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, that wouldn't sound unreasonable by Dublin prices. A little bit high, but not outrageously so. Dude.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:49:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So I take it children count as luxury accessoires in Dublin and London?

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:52:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Pretty much. Quite a number of women I know have gone back to work after having a kid and paid most or all of their salary on childcare - especially if it's number two. They felt they couldn't afford to stay off work too long because then they'll lose career progression or become unemployable. Prices might be dropping now - though I haven't heard they are - with the econocalypse but so have wages.

We're very lucky to be able to get by with a combination of family, daddy working from home and mommy changing hours.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:57:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"We're very lucky to be able to get by with a combination of family, daddy working from home and mommy changing hours."

It's true that we didn't help our case by moving AWAY from the family.
I do work from home a lot of the time, but I must be on the phone for meetings which wouldn't make looking after the baby possible.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:54:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, that shows a certain lack of sensible planning!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:10:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Childcare costs are obscene all over the UK and the Govt wonders why women can't go back to work.  

My brother and his partner can only afford the childcare because he works days and she works nights so it minimises the time my niece is in nursery.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 03:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The international team on the start-up concluded, privately: Brits hate their children.

To be fair, the attitude is a reasonable effect of trickle-down socialism [writ large, real estate].

and

To be precise, I also engaged a sitter half day who I sourced from the local library bulletin board @ GBP 10.00/hr.

Lesson: Bundled convenience does not come CHEAP.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:02:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jeez.

All that aggro.

Just to live in London.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I was at grad school. DrMarketTrustee was in NYC. The alternative was bufu Ithaca, NY.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Point taken.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:27:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the govt makes it so expensive to enter the child minding market, what with insurance and criminal record checks and ofsted reports and all other stuff that you have to be totally oriented on the business of child minding to enter the market with a lot of financial resource behind you. Looking after a couple of kids in your front room is impossible

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Looking after a couple of kids in your front room is impossible "

Ah. There goes the Migeru idea then.
Oh well...

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:50:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"So I take it children count as luxury accessoires in Dublin and London? "

Oh yes -although I may still object to the word accessoires, meaning something you can easily dispense with.

The thing is, a few years ago I made an estimate on how much it would cost us to have a baby, in order to know how much we may want to save prior to that. I came up with 1300€/month, which people reckoned was extremely high. I explained that I came to this high number because we were rather well off, so that, for example, an extra room would be extra surface in a not too cheap part of the town, ditto holidays, food and even clothes, where we'd probably want to have quality stuff... This was based on some serious studies by INSEE, and used a ratio of parental income to come up with the costs, expressed as how much you'd need to maintain the very same standard of living for you and your child as you had before.

So, it appears that even in Paris 1300€ per month is  easily enough to do so.

Now in London, ALL of it and maybe more is likely to go into being able to leave the house to go to work -and that is not proportional to income, it's something anyone working is likely to need.

Of course, in France you get tax reduction when you have children, and a lot of state help, and there are more public creches (although not enough of them)... You also get a lot of help if you want to employ someone at home. You know, socialism ;-)

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:46:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course, in France you get tax reduction when you have children

Israel has a particularly unusual way of computing child allowances: if you have n children, you get x*n sheqel when n<4, and x*n+y*(n-3) for n>=4, where y is approximately equal to x. It used to be n>=5, with y approximately equal to 4x. (Specific values for x and y can be found here).

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:58:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dude. When a US public school contractor can provide the same services at 40% discount in 2009, have the grace to admit you are being SHAFTED in Dublin.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Dude. Is the mini-me toilet trained? That's a whole other market."

I know we were both rather precocious and, being vain parents, harbour some hope that we will transmit that, but since he is not due to be born for another 2 months, that would be some achievement.

Although, come to think of it, he hasn't dirtied any pants in the past 7 months.

We'll keep looking, nanny sharing would probably be best if we could find another baby (ours will only be the second child in the entire building...), and of course the other nursery is "only" 800£ a month but distinctly dodgy and we would spend an extra 30-45 minutes daily because of its location. Which we would do if we needed to of course.

"You give up too easy or you're trolling for sympathy. "

If I am it's not sympathy for me -as I've hinted we can afford it, even though we'd rather not. I have sympathy for the majority who can't, however, and feel that there is something wrong when you can't choose family over career because family will be out of the question if you have a merely better than average career...

Maybe I'll try to diary those tribulations when babyboy has arrived.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:25:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
£1430/mo would be something like £70 a day. You could have a person working full-time at your home for that price.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You could get a couple of other families together, hire a building, hire some staff, start your own nursery, and turn a profit.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:38:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Need to look at the regulations of being a "Child Care Center" -- or whatever it is called in the UK.  BUT, I'm thinking, if you called it "babysitting" it's possible to get around 'em all.

In law the label defines the reality.  ;-)

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The UK government has a perverse way to use common law to encroach on everything. It seems like the principle is that, if something can be construed as something else covered by the law, then it is covered. Hence
A childminder is self-employed and has to be registered with the appropriate Government regulatory bodies. When registered, a childminder is checked for references, training, police record and health, and their home is inspected to make sure it's a safe and suitable environment for children.

After registration, a childminder is checked every one to three years to ensure they're continuing to provide a safe and suitable service.

All childminders in England and Wales (although not yet in Scotland and Northern Ireland) are required to complete a basic registration course, including first aid training. They may also have other childcare qualifications (eg, an NVQ in Early Years Care and Education, a vocational qualification at Level 3).



En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:18:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There was a recent case in the UK that hit the news of two police officers who would look after each other's children after school whilst the other was at work.

Somebody reported them and ofsted launched an investigation and told them they were no longer allowed to do this.  This was because it was an arrangement where they were 'rewarded' ie by having their child looked after in return for looking after the other child, and because it amounted to over a maximum limit of hours per year. Absolutely ridiculous.

The Education Minister has since clarified that such arrangements can take place once the legislation is amended but it does show you how highly regulated childcare is.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:19:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, all of that ISN'T a bad idea.  The thought of what would happen in an unregulated and free market is enough to put me off my Corn Flakes® for a week.  The problem is when the people doing the regulating are mindless authoritarian jerks, inflecting causeless and needless "oversight" and "intervention" to feed their power hunger, Dominance fantasies, & so forth.

No one could have predicted
by ATinNM on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oops.  Supposed to be a reply to Migeru, above.

No one could have predicted
by ATinNM on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But still, a valid point in relation to my comment which demonstrates the idiocy of overzealous inspectors.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:47:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's authoritarian make-work. Set yourself as a baby-sitter, and the police will break your dooor down. Report a burglary or a car break-in, and you'll be met with shrugs.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 06:01:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My first reaction was "some could but I couldn't".
For instance, I disagreed with the salary of my cleaner (who comes via a company), and pay her more, because at 6,65£ an hour for her I felt she couldn't live decently in London.

Which means she'd cost me more than that, and that's without the required qualifications for looking after babies.

Then I thought that full time has the advantage of not needing to travel, which is something my cleaner needs to do. So maybe the difference wouldn't be so great, even though it would definitely cost more than that. Which means that if we could find another baby, it would be cheaper than the nursery.

I guess we'll try that. Although we reckon it's better to have more interactions, if the difference in price is big enough we'll probably try that, for the first year at any rate. Need to find that baby now.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:31:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
More from Sir Ken, of Matrix - and it's well worth reading the rest:

BBC News - Ex-DPP: Tony Blair's attitude to Iraq war 'a disgrace'

The ex-director of public prosecutions has accused Tony Blair of "sycophancy" towards President Bush.

Sir Ken MacDonald called the 2003 Iraq war a "foreign policy disgrace of epic proportions".

He said the former prime minister had used "alarming subterfuge" to mislead the British people into the conflict.

Is it wrong of me to be enjoying this?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:41:53 PM EST
ThatBritGuy:
Is it wrong of me to be enjoying this?

The Germans do have a saying to the effect that schadenfreude is the sweetest joy...

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 04:44:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
the thing is, a large minority in the UK knew the arguments were some shade of bs, I know I didn't believe a word of it cos it looked too much like a typical establishment stitch up. I'm not blessed with particular insight, an awful lot of people made the same connection.

Yet nobody in government even questioned it. Which only goes to show that our political classes are drawn too tightly from a group of gullible (their raised level of piety is a dead giveaway methinks) private school/Oxbridge educated twerps.

Just cos they know a lot (and not always even that), doesn't mean they do critical thinking.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 05:00:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Yet nobody in government even questioned it."  Perhaps you'd like to rethink that - and maybe then modify more generalised abuse at groups you don't like - which seem to be rather many.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 07:43:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"The admission, made in a BBC program, amounts to a complete repudiation of Blair's own position held since before the invasion: that British intelligence had evidence of there being weapons of mass destruction with Saddam Hussein; some of those weapons were `deployable within 45 minutes of an order to use them'; and that he had no doubt that the threat was `serious and current'. On this assessment of the British government, published in September 2002, Blair had sought the parliament's approval, which he secured in March 2003 despite a rebellion by 139 of his own MPs. The approval was made possible due to the backing of the opposition Conservative Party for the invasion of Iraq.

After the vote, two senior ministers resigned from Blair's cabinet: Foreign Secretary Robin Cook and, some time later, International Development Secretary Clare Short.

...
Here is a summary of an article headlined `Lord Goldsmith warned Tony Blair over legality of the Iraq war' in The Times of London on November 30, 2009:

Goldsmith, then attorney general, sent a previously undisclosed letter [in July 2002] to Blair that a war could not be justified purely on the grounds of regime change and that an invasion on the grounds of self-defense or to prevent humanitarian disaster did not apply. Blair was reported to have concealed the advice from his cabinet, fearing it would spark an anti-war revolt.

http://www.juancole.com/2009/12/tripathi-blairs-iraq-confession.html

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Dec 14th, 2009 at 07:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your quotes don't contradict her point in any great way.  She could've added the qualifier that no one relevant in government questioned it to the extent needed.  But this isn't an academic journal.  It's a comment on a blog, so who gives a shit?

Admission made in a BBC program after the invasion.  What's that do for anybody?

"After the vote," so-and-so resigned.  Wow.  Better not kick this crowd in the groin, lest you break your foot.  I'll bet they even followed it up giving an anonymous quote to the Guardian.

Cook also doesn't seem to have been Foreign Secretary in 2003.  He was Leader of the House of Commons.  I, of course, assume you forgot to mention that.

I take your point on Clare Short, because if there's one rule to British politics, it's that you never screw with the International Development Secretary.

Now if only the head of the EPA would stand up against TARP, we'd really be in business.

I'm sure the "previously undisclosed letter" was excellent and sternly-worded and all that bullshit, and it clearly did a lot of good.

Shit, I'll bet one of Blair's aides even read it all the way through.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 06:51:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The quotes clearly indicate that it is wrong to say that nobody in the government "even questioned it" - apart from the fact that it is absurd to make such a claim -  how could we be sure whether there was any questioning or not - in cabinet? Amongst ministers privately? Independently ? etc.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:09:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The quotes indicate that a couple of mostly-gutless little shits filling token positions doled out to half-assed liberals in the government questioned what the government was doing.  Helen's point was, I think, clearly that no one of any consequence thoroughly questioned the decisions, let alone spoke out to the public before it was too late to tell them the government was full of shit.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 05:34:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"mostly-gutless little shits" - Is this supposed to refer to Robin Cook ? It doesn't matter, it's the sort of comment what some people would call "mostly-gutless little shits" make in the comfort zone of places like this. I'm sure Helen appreciates this kind of support and the rewriting of her comment to give it some plausibility.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Dec 16th, 2009 at 06:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oi.  The butthurt is strong with this one.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Dec 16th, 2009 at 06:52:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"One thing that has been remarked on that no one should doubt was his political courage. In February 2003, when Robin first told me that he might have to quit the government over Iraq, I urged caution. We both agreed that the threat from Iraq had been grossly inflated and that Saddam was being effectively contained. But I said that the invading troops would probably unearth some rusting stockpiles of chemical weapons left over from the first Gulf war and that Blair would be able to claim vindication. His allies were already briefing that those who opposed the war would put themselves "on the wrong side of history".

Robin agreed with my assessment, but dismissed it as a consideration: "This war is wrong and I will oppose it in any case." Those who knew him well will agree that by putting his intellectual reputation on the line he risked losing something far dearer to him than his ministerial limousine. That was the true measure of his courage."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/aug/09/labour.uk1

In an attack on Hazel Blears, George Monbiot says:

"You are temporarily protected by the fact that the United Kingdom, unlike other states, has not yet incorporated the Nuremberg Principles into national law. If a future government does so, you and all those who remained in the cabinet on March 20th 2003 will be at risk of prosecution for what the Nuremberg Tribunal called "the supreme international crime"(9). This is defined as the "planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression"(10). Robin Cook - a man of genuine political courage - put his conscience ahead of his career and resigned. What did you do?"

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2009/02/10/you-stand-for-nothing-but-election/


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Wed Dec 16th, 2009 at 07:01:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Still not contradicting my points about he and others.  It actually nearly made one of mine for me, and that point of mine -- about anonymous quotes to the Guardian -- was a joke, for fuck's sake.  Who have you got who stood up before it was too late, who could've done something about it?

You can continue this little irrelevant-quote-fueled shitfit, but all you've done is restated your silly argument repeatedly.  The above amounts to nothing more than "Robin is the bestest-best-times-infinity."  You've got bits of what he was saying to the Guardian, from an article in 2005.  Yes, he's clearly a great guy behind closed doors.  Well, La. Di. Da.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Dec 19th, 2009 at 09:47:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And you just keep denying the obvious; Cook was in government and clearly did more than just "question" the evidence, all I needed as counter-example to Helen's as usual over-generalisation. Now find something significant to snarl about.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Dec 19th, 2009 at 11:53:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Happy Xmas Ted.

Do you really think that burying anyone's opinion under a welter of self-congratulatory quotes of questionable relevance actually helps your argument ? So you do research ? Great. Does it tell you anything useful ? Think on Ted. Think on.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 03:40:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course it doesn't bury (what a ridiculous attempt to suggest, yet again, that you're being oppressed in yet another way) your opinion (which is all you have). It just indicates the extent to which your opinion is biased and ignores what evidence there is about such a complex issue. The quotations aren't just "self-congratulatory", though some have such elements in them, they do refer to some evidence beyond mere personal opinion - in your case evidently driven by strong prejudice. It's pretty bizarre here of all places, to imply that doing some relevant research is somehow useless - clearly it is to you, given your dogmatic, negative views.  

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Tue Dec 15th, 2009 at 04:04:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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