Wednesday Open Thread

by In Wales
Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 10:41:38 AM EST

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It is becoming clearer to me that the US strategy in Afghanistan is going to be an Iraq II.  The obvious above the table part is composed of a "surge" and, of course, the training of the armed forces.  However, the [largely] unspoken counterpart of all that is the pay off of war lords patterned on the "Awakening" or "Sons of Iraq" strategy which was decisive in lowering the level of violence [somewhat] in Iraq.

So why not just avoid the escalation with its accompanying bloodletting and devote those funds to paying off the Afghan war lords (and the Taliban) right now?  Put then on the CIA payroll right now and have them hunt for Bin Laden, while they're at it.  It think it would make a heck of a lot of sense from a costs benefits point of view.

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne

by maracatu on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:08:40 AM EST
maracatu:
So why not just avoid the escalation with its accompanying bloodletting and devote those funds to paying off the Afghan war lords (and the Taliban) right now?

One way to to this might be for the US to implement policies that guarantee top prices for opium products.

Oh wait...

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:47:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Foreign policy is domestic: what matters is the political effect at home, not the practical effects abroad. This is also true of most military policy.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:53:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:18:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ouch.

But shouldn't Afghanistan be etched on the grinder?

You could make this really bad by drawing Obama as a butcher pouring GIs into the grinder...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:30:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Afghanistan cast in raised letters on the grinder and 30,000 US troops for the label under the down arrow.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:35:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, it is the sausage-making process, so you might as well just grind up the health care money with the GIs. Opium-flavored sausage, delicious, and so good for you too.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wonder how long it will take before that idea shows up on a progressive site.  Great one.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The US is already paying off the Taliban to keep them from attacking its convoys. It is already funding local narco-trafficking militias with personal ties to the government through its secret service. SNAFU, and all that.

I think the new initiative of McChrystal is overplayed. I don't think they're going to implement a direct analogue to the 'sons of Iraq' strategy. It's possible that this is just a tool to pressure the Afghan government to play along. And otherwise, the surge can still make sense from a push-pull perspective.

The problem is the fucked up nature of the government and the secret ops that have already been ongoing, as well as the wrongheaded focus on the drug side of the equation. The strategy would be much simpler for the US military if it got into the trade itself (officially).

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:31:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, legalize opium, regulate it and list it on the commodity markets. It could also serve as a new store of wealth for those concerned about the dollar. At least if one took physical possession of the opium it would have intrinsic value for deadening the pain of the economy.

If religion be the opiate of masses, what then be opium?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...the religion of the masses?

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 08:09:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
At least it has the benefit of being exactly what he said he'd do 3 years ago.

the problem is that I can't work out what it's supposed to achieve. I read somewhere that for counter-insurgency tactics to work they'd need half a million troops in Afghnistan, let alone what they need for Pakistan. Going from 70 - 100 thousand is not a useful gesture, it's simply putting more troops into harms way. They have spent the last 7 years teaching the Taliban effective ways to fight the NATO troops who are stuck at the end of a ridiculously long and fragile supply train. Casualties have been rising considerably and now we are giving them more targets to aim at.

Afghanistan is a political problem, not a military one. Obama may have punted on the military issue, but he hasn't even begun to realistically address the political issue. Viceroys do not cut it. What is the strategy ? What is the military there to achieve ? What is the endpoint ? what are the waypoints that can reliably dictate interim tactics ? Does he know ? Does anyone ? Seriously, has anyone asked these questions and got sensible answers ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't work out what it's supposed to achieve.

Oh, that's easy.  Business for the techno-military complex (ie. surveillance drones, Predators and assorted UAVs)

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne

by maracatu on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 08:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To finally end the Apache Wars here in the Southwest, "[General] Miles deployed over 2 dozen heliograph points, coordinating 5,000 soldiers, 500 Apache scouts, 100 Navajo Scouts, and thousands of civilian militia against Geronimo and his twenty-four warriors."

Emphasis added.

The whole thing is just pointless.  The Taliban and AQ live there.  They ain't going anywhere.  Eventually the US will leave and they will still be there.  And when the US leaves the government of Afghanistan will fall.  Again.  

And the Taliban will take-over.  

Again.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:39:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh my!  I've become a Juan Cole clone!

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 08:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
afew was posting nasty things about you In Wales, and I'm rattin' him out.

Nah Nah Nih Nah Nah. :)

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:24:47 AM EST
Why, of all the...

I've never done anything to you.

Why so much hate?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:42:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Does he have reason to be preemptive?

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:48:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
He didn't give a link, so who knows?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And I quote from the December 2 Salon:

She's (In Wale) at college tonight, evening classes you know, trying to better herself and so on. Then it'll be the working class can kiss my you know the song.

Don't tell her I said that though.

HAH !  I say, HAH!  Busssssted!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
to quote numerous UK gangster films, "Nobody likes a grass" (And thats half an hour of my life wasted hunting the actual quote around IMDB and youtube)

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:46:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's a "grass"?  Please don't refer me to Wiki.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A dictionary of slang - "G" - Slang and colloquialisms of the UK.
grass Noun. 1. An informer. Possibly from the rhyming slang grass in the park - 'nark', meaning informer. E.g."Don't tell John about this, he's a grass and I don't want to get into trouble."


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He's just followin' my tradition of a weekly insulta-thon.  mix one glass Crement (accent included) with a half-liter Bordeaux, stir in equal amounts of superiority complex and literary license, and fire away!

Apologies to one of my favorite shitkickers.

Now! Take cover!.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:14:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this mid-week mud slinging night on ET or what?

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:22:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's OK if you do it with a smile.  But I will admit, I miss poemless' posts.  She had such a way with words.

Maybe we can get her to do a guest shot?

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This isn't HATE.  This is simply being a crappy person.  Don't take it personally (how many times have I heard THAT in my lifetime?).

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, I'm not taking it personally. I'm just looking into assault rifle prices.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:03:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now now, you know that kind of language is frowned upon.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:06:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Afew forgot to mention he's a Goldman Sachs employee...
<ducks>

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He's my Uncle, he'd never be mean to me.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:11:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
afew is your Uncle???

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:14:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nepotism eh ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:49:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you think of the guy who replaced Rhodri ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I voted for him.  He should be good.  Nobody is as great as Rhodri but forgiving that Carwyn should be decent.  Rumours abound as to who he will put in his cabinet.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 at 02:05:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC - Peston's Picks
The directors of Royal Bank of Scotland have been given legal advice that they would have to resign if the chancellor of the exchequer were to block them from paying the bonuses they regard as essential to maintain the competitiveness of the group.


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:38:58 AM EST
ceebs:
The directors of Royal Bank of Scotland have been given sold legal advice

That's better.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:40:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The directors of Royal Bank of Scotland have been given purchased legal advice...

More likely the case.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:45:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The directors of Royal Bank of Scotland have been given purchased legal advice using bank profits...

...surely?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 02:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Certainly not out of their own pockets! That would be profoundly "un-capitalist" by prevailing standards.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 03:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The directors of Royal Bank of Scotland have been given legal advice that they would have to resign if ....

And the problem with that is ... ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:45:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Problem? I thought it was a bonus.  After all, it is not the director's bonuses we are discussing, is it? A true win-win: lose the directors along with the folks that implemented the policies that led to disaster. An elegant way to clean house. {Unintended consequence alert!}

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sounds about right: if they feel they're being prevented from doing their duty for the shareholders they should resign. If only this had occurred to them when they were busy digging the hole for the bank ...
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 11:46:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the Bank dug the hole, not the directors. Haven't you learned anything about global finance?  i'm going to join Amnesty for RBS Directors on facebook.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 12:17:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but providing the bonuses isn't really about doing their duty for the shareholders. the bonus system is an internal stitch up for the plutocrat club members.

the people at pension funds(a) and other investment groups who vote for bonuses at banks(b) are people who get bonuses themselves, probably voted upon by the very people who they voted for. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. It's got nothing to do with shareholder value.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:48:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, they believe that bonuses are necessary motivators and just rewards. It's just easy to believe that when you and your friends are the ones getting them.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 02:43:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe they do, but you can still believe in bonuses as motivators and not have the situation where non-trivial percentages of bank profit are delivered as bonuses to the few instead of to shareholders. My description explains how that current runaway situation evolved.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 02:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Letters tell of Moscow prison ordeal
By Nataliya Vasilyeva, Associated Press

The letters are neatly folded and written on soft white paper in a confident, elegant hand. They tell a story of horror in the bowels of the Russian prison system, a saga set against the backdrop of the world of multibillion-dollar investment funds in Vladimir Putin's Russia.

Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer for a London-based fund that was once the biggest in Russia, wrote to his mother of wasting away from an agonizing illness without proper medical care in a crowded Moscow prison cell that reeked of sewage.

Just 11 days after the last letter reached her, Magnitsky died while awaiting trial on tax-evasion charges. He was 37.

Magnitsky's story hit a nerve in Russia, where memories linger of the millions who died of cold, starvation and neglect in the harsh Soviet gulag.

In an exclusive interview, Magnitsky's mother showed The Associated Press a series of letters from her son detailing his ordeal in Butyrskaya prison, notorious for its harsh conditions.

Those who like to complain about U.S. tax laws, may want to consider Russia's.

by Magnifico on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:25:53 PM EST
vbo posted this late today on yesterday's thread, so I'm re-posting on her behalf;-

I need a help.I am back on some Serbian discussion where we are talking about war as generator of USA economy.
Can anybody direct me where I can find statistics about how big is part of the USA military complex in their economy and how many people work for military complex ( at least directly cause it's probably hard to follow having in mind that in logistic of the military complex there are so many corporations not directly working for military).
Thanks in advance


keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:40:57 PM EST
The number of people is a hard statistic to derive.  

Anyway, this is a pretty article from a pretty good source.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks very much but I am not after USA military spending...just opposite...I want to know how much money they make as a part of GDP. One could argue that they just spend but they also make and sell weaponry, planes , equipment etc.And also I see that it is not possible to find data but I would be interested how much money USA companies make thanks to supplying military complex and how many people are actually involved in working for them.Obviously it's not possible to find such data on Internet.
I am aware of this:
--------
"For globalization to work, America can't be afraid to act like the almighty superpower that it is. The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist. McDonald's cannot flourish without McDonald-Douglas, the designer of the F-15, and the hidden fist that keeps the world safe for Silicon Valley's technology is called the United States Army, Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps."

Thomas Friedman, New York Times, March 28, 1999  
--------
but as we have two group of people , one believing that military complex do generate USA economy well and other that believe that they are just spending, I wanted to find more numbers as for example how many people work in MC and how much do they earn etc.How much money they generate for USA economy?
Thanks anyway...

by vbo on Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 at 01:04:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In terms of money I have no idea, but in terms of overall scale I have this from Chalmers Jhonson:

Why the US has really gone broke - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition

By 1990 the value of the weapons, equipment and factories devoted to the Department of Defense was 83% of the value of all plants and equipment in US manufacturing.


Wait this is important. Someone is wrong on the Internet.
by generic on Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 at 07:44:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
thanks...
by vbo on Fri Dec 4th, 2009 at 07:03:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is still hope for theater in amurka.

Shotgun Willie sits around in his underwear
Bitin on a bullet and pullin out alla his hair
Shotgun Willie got alla his family there.

Don't blink, you'll miss sumptin

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:45:38 PM EST
Do Bankers get the Blues?  Checking out this audience might hurt the theory.  Let Cheech's intro set the scene, then the best musical friend wind energy ever had will dust off a tiny bit.



Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 01:59:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Feministing ask an interesting question;- Why is Serena Williams being fined so much ?

After all, John McEnroe wasn't a saint and others have been at least as bad. Yet she gets huge fines.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 02:21:36 PM EST
Well, wait: Per the comments, Tarango's fine is roughly on par with Serena's when adjusted for inflation.  And the big foul in McEnroe's case wasn't committed by McEnroe, but rather by his undoubtedly-just-as-much-egomaniacal-and-obnoxious-gutter-trash-as-he-is wife, who physically assaulted the judge.

Plus, it's a bigger sport these days, and she's a bigger star than McEnroe.  There were literally dozens watching at home who might've been offended.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:27:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...adding: The real issue is threatening the line judge.  You can't threaten the refs.  They'll rightly fine you for it every time.

Cuss at them, throw your racquet/helmet/bat/whatever on the ground, etc -- that's all fine by me and (I think) most fans.  Sports are intense at that level, so you can forgive outbursts.  But threatening the ref, you deserve what you get.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cardinal says homosexuals can't enter heaven - The Irish Times - Wed, Dec 02, 2009

A Roman Catholic Cardinal told homosexuals and transsexuals today they would never get into heaven, prompting a rebuke from the Vatican itself.

"Transsexuals and homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, it's not me who says it but St Paul," said Mexican Cardinal Javier Barragan, a former Vatican official who recently retired, referring to one of St Paul's epistles.

Asked if people were born homosexual Barragan, whose comments were posted on a conservative Catholic website called www.pontifex.roma, was quoted as saying: "One is not born homosexual but they become that way. This is for various reasons: education, for not having developed their identity during their adolescence, maybe they are not guilty but by going against the dignity of the body they certainly will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven."

"Everything that goes against nature and against the dignity of the body offends God," he added.

Aurelio Mancuso, president of Italy's main gay rights group, Arcigay, said Barragan's remarks were part of the Church's "ridiculous theories about sexuality and the dignity of the person".



notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 03:33:56 PM EST
But apparently those who protect paedophiles from the law can...

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 03:34:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If guys like him are gonna be there, i wouldn't wanna go.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 03:40:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sour grapes.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 03:50:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shit, just get into Heaven?  They made Ratfucker the gatekeeper for it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:29:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why would they want to?
First of all, I recall to your attention the extraordinary fact with which I began. To wit, that the human being, like the immortals, naturally places sexual intercourse far and away above all other joys -- yet he has left it out of his heaven! The very thought of it excites him; opportunity sets him wild; in this state he will risk life, reputation, everything -- even his queer heaven itself -- to make good that opportunity and ride it to the overwhelming climax. From youth to middle age all men and all women prize copulation above all other pleasures combined, yet it is actually as I have said: it is not in their heaven; prayer takes its place.

[...]

In man's heaven everybody sings! The man who did not sing on earth sings there; the man who could not sing on earth is able to do it there. The universal singing is not casual, not occasional, not relieved by intervals of quiet; it goes on, all day long, and every day, during a stretch of twelve hours. And everybody stays; whereas in the earth the place would be empty in two hours. The singing is of hymns alone. Nay, it is of one hymn alone. The words are always the same, in number they are only about a dozen, there is no rhyme, there is no poetry: "Hosannah, hosannah, hosannah, Lord God of Sabaoth, 'rah! 'rah! 'rah! siss! -- boom! ... a-a-ah!"

Meantime, every person is playing on a harp -- those millions and millions! -- whereas not more than twenty in the thousand of them could play an instrument in the earth, or ever wanted to.

Consider the deafening hurricane of sound -- millions and millions of voices screaming at once and millions and millions of harps gritting their teeth at the same time! I ask you: is it hideous, is it odious, is it horrible?

Consider further: it is a praise service; a service of compliment, of flattery, of adulation! Do you ask who it is that is willing to endure this strange compliment, this insane compliment; and who not only endures it, but likes it, enjoys it, requires if, commands it? Hold your breath!

It is God! This race's god, I mean. He sits on his throne, attended by his four and twenty elders and some other dignitaries pertaining to his court, and looks out over his miles and miles of tempestuous worshipers, and smiles, and purrs, and nods his satisfaction northward, eastward, southward; as quaint and nave a spectacle as has yet been imagined in this universe, I take it.

(from Mark Twain Letters from the Earth).
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 04:55:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brilliant, danke.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 05:54:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The more I learn about sex, gender, and sexual orientation the more I lose my sense of toleration for these ignorant asswipes.  

No one could have predicted
by ATinNM on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But isn't the timing brilliant - just as half a dozen Irish bishops have been found to have systematically covered up hundreds of paedophile attacks on children by their priests - under instruction from Rome.

Bad publicity?  Just wheel out some old codger to distract the masses with some hoary old chestnut.  What will we get him to say? Ah yes lets have a go at homosexuals - that's sure to raise a storm, confuse the issues and distract the leader writers.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 07:26:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sure it's just one of those coincidental coinkey-dinkey things.

Not.

In any way, the Irish government could PNG the whole sorry lot and kick their asses back to Rome and then go after the sons-of-bitches IF the political will existed ... which I'm guessing doesn't.

When all is said and no matter how one analyzes it: as long as the Irish people are willing to let the priests rape children they will continue to do so and the hierarchy will continue to cover it up.  This ain't rocket science, you know.  It's entirely predictable from past actions and the known psychology of Sexual Predators.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 07:48:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Taoiseach has just defended the Papal Nuncio - see http://www.eurotrib.com/comments/2009/11/26/155747/28/10#10

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 08:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think a bit of historical perspective is needed.

This is what you get for winning the battle of Clontarf.

If your ancestors had let my ancestors conquer the island you'd all be Lutherans ... and you wouldn't have this problem.  

(Either one jokes or screams in rage.)

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 08:43:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Slight nit pick - My ancestors are German.  Personally I blame the Romans.  They got such a shock from the naked picts and Angles in England that they couldn't face coming here.  Thus we haven't a straight road in the country.

As for Clontarf - you guys were only interested in shipping off "our" booty and our women - in that order.  Get over it.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 at 06:13:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Everything that goes against nature and against the dignity of the body offends God,"

Therefore,
Burlesquoni will never enter KoH
Anyone with plastified surgery will never ....

Take thy soapbox over to the plastic surgeon's convention, Baaaaaarragan!

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 at 01:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I said before, you'll be amazed at how easy it is to break a wooden board.  Everyone who tried to break a board in the Instructables office was able to do it, regardless of size, gender, and arm strength.  

It's so easy, that even babies can do it!



En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 at 06:16:55 PM EST
Joke:

When Madonna first moved to England, she said she wanted to feel more English..
She is now an unmarried, single mother with four kids from different fathers, two of them black..

Job done.

by vbo on Thu Dec 3rd, 2009 at 05:23:08 AM EST


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