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Tuesday Open Thread

by Fran
Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 12:13:45 PM EST

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Tuesday Open Thread | 95 comments (95 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

Oooh, nobody around. could be a quiet night.

Does the first person to comment on a FireDogLake thread still go "Fitz" ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:07:44 PM EST

quiet evening (none / 0)

at the airport, on my way back to Europe. I'll be spending most of the next 15 hours in planes.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: quiet evening (none / 0)

ah, champagne time

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:29:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: quiet evening (none / 1)

Well, it seems to be a bad time of year for train trips to and from islands...

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

I am finishing some stuff tonight, then I am up-to-date with everything for 2009 and can focus on 2010 after the Holidays.

But first I am really going to relax, do nothing, read and so on... for a few days and am very much looking forward to it.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:26:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

I will be grateful when Xmas is over. The traffic coming home from work is ridiculous and most of the cars are shoppers.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:33:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Sitting in my old hometown in West Frisia. Slow holidays, will soon get faster, or at least, fatter as the dinners approach.

Didn't experience much of the weather/travel chaos, only a half hour delay on the trip from Berlin to Amsterdam and 20 minutes today (on a trip 1/10th the distance) because my train decided to change from intercity to regional for the occasion of there being snow. Lucky, lucky.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:53:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Let's have West Frisia in the right language. ;)

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Ah, it was much worse here. Because money is saved on everything, lots of switches froze up and some catenary snapped, and two of Budapest's three terminuses stopped accepting trains during the height of cold. My line worked, but with reduced speed, and lots of refurbished (then again, refurbished in the cheapest way = crap quality) trains broke down. So yesterday, I was 50 minutes late one way (on what should be a 30 minute trip), 25 minutes the other way.

Today, temperatures jumped 10 degrees, so there was no problem towards Budapest. But there was some problem again on my way back, and I was a hour late. (And I can barely believe it but information of passengers got even worse. What with a pitch-black train with lowered pantograph indicated to depart with a 10 minute delay... 10 minutes ago. My company is disintegrating.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

The chaos in the Netherlands was pretty widespread, I was just fortuitously exempted from it. All intercity trains were cancelled from Sunday to today but the good old sturdy IC from Berlin made it through (the longest delay we had was due to waiting for a connection from Hamburg in Osnabrueck).

The problem in the Netherlands was also due to frozen switches. They had gas heating, but this broke down. Spokesperson for pro-rail said they could have reliable electric heating switches for 45 million Euros, nationwide, which seems like a no-brainer to me because 3 days of only regional trains is really bad for the image of the railways, even if it only happens once every so many years.

Climate change means more extreme weather, so, you know, it's an adaptation measure.

I still remember the last time snow caused these issues. Only three or four years ago. Then it wasn't due to the quantity, but it being the wrong kind of snow. Too fine, would wear the wheels down too quickly. Better not to run any trains! Saves money.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:39:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

The weather is more continental here, so cold snaps aren't that uncommon -- but most trains managed to run in even worse cold snaps here in the past, even though there have always been frozen switches. (My company even has specially built switch 'melters' with aircraft engines.) I don't remember the complete breakdown of entire terminuses.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:52:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

Today is my wife's birthday and our three sons are at home, so it's definitely family time.
Tomorrow we'll drive to my parent's place in Provence and meet my sister and brothers.

I'll stop by every once in a while; enjoy time with your loved ones everybody; I know I will :)

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 05:20:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

charmless functionary of the day is the car clamper in Basingstoke who found cars abandoned by drivers due to heavy snow and who duly slapped their boot of inactivity upon them.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:09:23 PM EST

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

But of course Basingstoke has no quota for the car clampers. This is to teach drivers not to get stuck in snow storms. And, perhaps, there is an informal "commission" paid by the tow service?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 06:09:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Thank God for Booman, Atrios and Paul Krugman. Without them, I'd be stuck with Barack Obama and Jane Hamsher, and that's no way to live.

This is why the Magic Space Daddy scheduled football in autumn and winter.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:45:41 PM EST

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

Yes, Dear Jane seems to have taken over dKos today. What's galling is that I seem to have missed why this was so all of that acreage of text floats serenely over my head leaving no comprehension in its wake.

I think it's Liebercare related but I thought we were beyond that now that Obama had surrendered

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 01:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

I think this was touched off by Liebercare-related issues. At least that's my guess, but I haven't been keeping up with it. I don't care much for FDL, and I find myself only checking dKos once ever week or so, so Im out of the loop.

I'm not a fan of Jane. To be honest, I thought long ago that Jane needed to be fitted for a straightjacket. From the Lieberman-in-Blackface incident -- I hate Lieberman, and I'll endorse a lot, but that was truly way too far -- to accusing all of the blogging world that disagrees with her of being in the pocket of the insurance industry during the summer and early fall to paying bloggers I once really liked -- slinkerwink, in particular -- to go on dKos and post things which have bee demonstrated to be laughably false over and over again, I just can't take Jane Hamsher seriously, and her viciousness and lashing out suggests some severe psychological issues to me.

My impression is that, while occasionally right, she's often wrong and makes herself unreadable by being an incredibly nasty little shit. Which is par for the course at FDL, historically.

I, honestly, have to wonder where the money's coming from on Jane. Have for a while. Even when I'm inclined to agree with the underlying point, her behavior is bizarre and has been for years.

Mostly, I'm tired of the blogosphere's drama, hence only really reading Atrios, Boo and Krugman -- the three grownups -- on the American ones.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:14:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

FDL changed in nature some time ago. They led the charge over the Plame affair and were highly involved in the Lieberman campaign and a couple of other things and people started paying attneiton to them, Jane and Christy started appearing on telly. Then Marcy joined them and it all got very intense.

I think they're still in campaign black and white mode. Governing is dirty and their disappointment is sad to see.

Personally I always had a soft spot for them and spent a lot of time on FDL 3 years ago. But i left a long time back.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 7)

I just can't deal with her. Don't know a lot about Marcy or Christy. I do know that her saying this about Booman...

Booman is a troll with a blog. Don't worry about him, I only do it occasionally because he's a bottomfeeder that puts up stuff nobody else will print and then the DNC pushes it. But of his own, he's meaningless.

...is way over the line. Of all the bloggers out there, I think Boo has, far and away, the best grasp of how the Senate actually works and how to go about the strategy of the legislative process. So far, he's been close to 100% accurate, as far as I can tell.

And certainly nobody can accuse Boo of having never been down in the trenches fighting for real, working-class people knowing his history.

You could accuse him of being wrong on this or that, and I think I've read enough of his stuff to know he'd probably be pretty quick to admit to it if it were clearly so. But a "troll," "bottomfeeder," "meaningless" -- and from the blogger whose allies now apparently include the cast of Fox & Friends and Grover Norquist?

The fact that she also seems to attract an army of drooling morons to whatever her position is on a given issue -- and whether she's clearly right or clearly wrong -- is a bit disturbing.

The fact that many of them are polluting dKos and others is worrying, too.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:59:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 9)

Jesus. How can anyone other than a over-entitled psychopath say that of Booman? It made me angry at first, now it just makes me sad.

Yeah, all that old "blogosphere" stuff is done.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:13:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Without a strong foe or a strong leader (4.00 / 4)

the left blogosphere was bound to splinter and turn on itself.

It would have really turned on itself if Obama had lost in November 2008, but instead by winning the Senate, House, and presidency the implosion has been more drawn out. Winning 60 seats in the Senate was an accident the Democrats did not want.

This happens when you have only yourself to blame for your shortcomings. The Democratic Party and its supporters are the problem now. But they needn't worry, soon the Republicans will teabag themselves back into office and the Democrats won't have to worry about governing anymore. They can go back to claiming to need more Democrats.

It could have been different if Obama was a strong, bold leader rallying his netroot supporters to fight for his legislative goals, but instead he decided to ask for a banquet while demonstrating he's perfectly willing to settle for table scraps.

by Magnifico on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:24:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (4.00 / 4)

The annoying thing about all of it is that I find myself agreeing with all criticisms of everybody. Obama's a pansy, and Jane Hamsher is nuts. The HCR bill is awful, and I'm still inclined to support going to conference in hopes of getting something better. (I'm not sure how I'd vote if this were all we could get, honestly.)

The left is splintered into one side, which is too ideological, and another side, which is too moderate/"pragmatic" (I'm not sure who's pragmatic here, quite frankly). I'm inclined to agree with the idea that if we can't get a public option, we should kill the bill, yet I'm sympathetic to Krugman and Boo's argument that the stronger cost controls can wait, and that the uninsured need those subsidies now rather than our ideological fight and long-term knowledge.

But maybe that's just "Eat shit and shit ponies later" and doomed to failure. Or maybe it should be seen as a small, but significant win, and guys like rootless2 are right when they say the left is always willing to suffer the big loss because next time we'll get the big win (shrug) So I dunno, WTF?

If that makes any sense.

Meh. Like I said, thank god for Bowl Games.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:32:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (none / 0)

The annoying thing about all of it is that I find myself agreeing with all criticisms of everybody. Obama's a pansy, and Jane Hamsher is nuts.

LMAO.

The looming failure of the Obama administration stems from what didn't happen 10 - 15 years ago. The Progressives didn't sit down, do some analysis, come-up with policy prescriptions, and a way to sell them.

Right now the political climate in the US could be changed if the leaders of the Progressive Caucus and the Left, in general, weren't second and third rate bottom feeders.

But they are, so it won't.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (none / 0)

Oh, pffft. You been doing too many hallucinogens with Peyote Bill, ya quitter. ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (none / 0)

I think the added problem is that, to paraphrase Churchill on Gen clarke, the netroots fooled themselves into thinking "they were hurling a wild cat on Washington, instead they beached a whale".

As was noted all the way through the primaries, Obama made no secret of what he was. But it is amazing how much people were willing to project an entirely different collective persona upon him that could never deliver on the expectations that had built up.

As I said at the time "..nobody could, but Obama won't even try". And he hasn't.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:36:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (4.00 / 3)

Look on Obama as a "first step" ... at least he isn't McCain/Palin which was the other choice. Now all the people who complain that "Obama ain't what we wanted" will have a chance to get off their fat asses and go the next step to a ... Kucinich? Nader? ... whomever, or allow the Repubs to get back into the driver seat big time and THAT, my friends, will be UGLY, with a capital UGH!!

P.S. Glad I'm an old dude without kids. I don't hang out with the super-wealthy and they're the only ones smiling, other than the "Jesus is coming" crowd.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:15:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (4.00 / 7)

Over the last week I've heard that "Look upon X as a first step" be it Obama or Copenhagen or any other thing where people just havent stood up to be counted.

ok he isnt McCain or Palin, but he still isnt good enough by a long shot. Every time hes had the oppertunity to stand up and be counted, to make his position felt as the man who's worthy to be remembered in history, he's taken the big words but small gestures route from what I can see. By taking this route where he's taken the easy way out he's perhaps destroyed any faith that a percentage of the youthfull vote has in future politicians. Im n saying that people should fight against the current health bill, as any extra person you can get coverage for is a victory, (And any that will still be at peril of losing houses or without coverage are still going to be the most cynically betrayed)

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 05:13:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (none / 0)

By taking this route where he's taken the easy way out he's perhaps destroyed any faith that a percentage of the youthfull vote has in future politicians.

Sometime he'll see
The hardest thing
Turns out to be
The easy way out!

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 06:20:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Without a strong foe or a strong leader (none / 0)

I voted for Obama after I saw the bumper sticker

OBAMA: Not as Terrible as Bush!

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 06:59:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 9)

What's happening is more fundamental. The health care deal, rather than consolidating the progressive base behind a reform that everyone can then go sell to the independents, has split the base. The debate over the bill has become predictably vitriolic, on both sides. Defenders of the bill have singled out Jane Hamsher, who is a high-profile and controversial critic of the bill. The working assumption seems to be that if Hamsher can be discredited, so can the entire opposition of the bill.

I've had my own run-ins with Jane, and yet she invites me to post occasionally on FDL, which I sometimes take her up on. I'm willing to overlook things in order to promote a mutual agenda when there is one to promote.

The attacks on slinkerwink, one of the most fundamentally decent human beings I've ever met, that have been happening at Daily Kos ever since she got hired on by FDL, have been beyond despicable. Those attacks are profoundly disturbing and, as far as I can tell, entirely without justification.

But enough of the personalities. This dispute is, as I hinted at above, symptomatic of something deeper. What Obama has done is a classic example of basic neoliberal politics as practiced by non-conservatives - use progressive rhetoric to reassure the base and ensure they won't block corporate-friendly deals that are cut without meaningful progressive input and engagement.

We've seen it with Clinton, we saw it in Britain with the Labour government and in Canada with the Liberal government. The end is always disillusionment on the part of the base and the alienation of the independent/swing voters who sooner or later vote for conservatives who at least speak a direct language that they then follow through on exactly as expected. Canada's Liberals lost the '06 election, and Labour is going to experience a punishing replay of the 1979 election sometime next spring.

Health care reform, regardless of what we think of the contents of the bill, is beginning to resemble a pyrrhic victory. Sure, a bill gets done, but at a huge political cost. Instead of consolidating his base, Obama has split it. Instead of having progressives and other Democrats united to explain and defend the bill to moderates and swing voters, Obama has some progressives trying to explain and defend the bill to other progressives, in a process that is getting increasingly ugly and divisive.

Those sort of tactics are effective at producing short-term gains, but they have never proven effective at building a long-term and strong political coalition that can hold together to beat back the right and produce changes that can outlast the tenure of a particular president or Congressional majority. One could argue they're not intended to do that, but to ensure that progressives don't block a corporate-friendly deal.

And the world will live as one

by Montereyan (robert at calitics dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 07:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

While I agree with your analysis of the dynamic that's going on, I see major differences between the current situation with HCR and your prior examples. You're dead on when it comes to the problem of, say, selling Clinton's neo-lib NAFTA or welfare "reforms," but I see a huge distinction between making the base swallow those anti-progressive actions and this one.

There's nothing anti-progressive about giving people healthcare, which this bill does. What all the screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth is about, is that it's not bigger and better or done the exact way we'd want or hope.

A political victory is never pyrrhic if it produces results (I realize only us old folks will have personally witnessed this for our side). If this passes, it will produce actual, huge, concrete improvement in millions of lives (unlike the neo-lib stuff you cite). This will overcome any political hurt feelings now. If it fails, we won't get another chance and it will be a disaster.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 08:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 4)

But it's not giving people healthcare - it's forcing them to buy healthcare from third party providers who do not have their interests at heart, at prices which they may not be able to afford, with stiff penalties if they can't make the payments.

In theory insurers are now obliged to spend money on actual health care, not on lunches, private jets, prostitutes and lobbying. In practice anyone with political experience knows that they will do everything they possibly can to make those clauses impossible to enforce. Until an insurer is sued, fined or forced out of business because they are not obeying the letter of this new law, those clauses remain meaningless.

Many of the flaws of the system - random and expedient exclusions, and refusals to pay not being the least - remain more or less unchallenged.

So it's almost entirely a political bill, designed to placate the base and make it possible to say that Obama Delivered, while not actually annoying anyone with money.

More than that, it's revealed Obama as a slimy little opportunist, who is unwilling or unable to change the status quo, and whose MO remains fine speechifying, with as little political and economic leadership as he can get away with.

This is a triumph of expediency, and the end of Obama's political momentum - not the beginning of the progressive renaissance that he worked so hard to persuade his supporters of.

It's true that it's as good as could be expected, considering Obama's lack of interest in real reform. But that's a receipt for mediocrity, not a recipe for continued improvement.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 10:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

I have to disagree.

But it's not giving people healthcare - it's forcing them to buy healthcare from third party providers who do not have their interests at heart, at prices which they may not be able to afford, with stiff penalties if they can't make the payments.

The penalties involved cannot be more than 2% of your income or $750, whichever is more. Most people - a huge amount of people - will be eligible for Medicaid, which is a de facto public option, or subsidies. So far as I can tell, anyone to whom the $750 would apply wouldn't consider it 'stiff.' And there's a cap on premiums, limiting them to 8% of your income which, as Drew said upthread, would be a godsend to most people.

It's not an entirely political bill, as you claim - it's got 900 billion concrete bucks behind it. You say it ignores flaws in the system, and at the same time acknowledge it addresses some flaws, but predict they'll never be enforced. So damned for the stuff they include and damned if they don't?

it's revealed Obama as a slimy little opportunist, who is unwilling or unable to change the status quo, and whose MO remains fine speechifying, with as little political and economic leadership as he can get away with.

Obama's lack of interest in real reform

I'm not sure where all this vitriol comes from. As angry as the left got at Clinton, and for much better reason, I never heard this level of character assassination directed at him from 'our side.'

I mean, really "with as little... as he can get away with" - seriously? You're calling him lazy?

And he has no interest in reform? So I guess that's why he's come closer to achieving an unprecedented bill which establishes healthcare as a responsibility of government than the multiple presidents who have tried and failed before him.

But just to be clear that I understand your position: $900 billion to get healthcare for most people, reigning in the worst excesses of one of the most powerful industries in the world, saving countless lives, risking his entire political career to do so, and setting a legal and historical precedent that no one's ever been able to achieve makes him an uninterested slimy opportunist? I'm not following the reasoning here...

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 11:12:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

He has certainly put his career on the line - but not by being too progressive.

He's an opportunist because his campaign was a lie. He's on the record campaigning for a public option on many occasions, and then last week he says 'Nah - didn't say that.'

That is not the action of an honourable man, and it certainly makes his true intentions - whatever they are - suspect.

And it's not a $900bn bill - it's a $90bn bill that runs for at least ten years. In public spending terms, that's pocket money. Compare with $680bn per year for defence.

Now considering the current system is legalised mugging, it's certainly a step up from that, for at least some of the population. But I don't think it's realistic to pretend that this is a move to a Euro style health system. And I would still want to see some kind of punitive action taken against insurers when - and it will be when, not if - they start pushing the limits of what's legal, or they begin to use creative accounting and other tricks to minimise their obligations.

The key point is that Obama hasn't been actively pushing for change - he's allowed others to fight it out, and has reliably contradicted himself, to the extent that it's impossible to know what he himself believes, wants, or stands for.

If that doesn't make him slimy, it certainly makes him a poor leader.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 08:08:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

Obama hasn't been actively pushing for change - he's allowed others to fight it out

He's pushed for the congress to come up with a healthcare bill (which is a change). Allowing 'others' to fight it out is exactly what the system over here is designed to do -- congress legislates. As I said elsewhere, I find it frustrating as well, but respect that he respects the system enough to actually, y'know, not circumvent it.

And I think it's a bit of a reach to say his whole campaign was a lie because you have one article seeming to contradict one aspect of it. He campaigned for healthcare reform, he's pushing healthcare reform. He supported a public option within that reform and, so far as I'm aware, has never come out against it.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 05:47:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

Of course, one of the key issues of debate is whether this bill actually "gives people health care." It does via the subsidies, but those will not reach everyone who needs it. And of course, there are concerns about how much people with pre-existing conditions will be charged, how much premiums will rise with a mandated payment system, and whether anyone will actually receive the care that they need without insurance companies denying care in order to pad their profits. Whether "it will produce actual, huge, concrete improvement in millions of lives" is a very open question. The only way we will find out is to watch and see.

That all being said, the politics of this has been botched badly, perhaps fatally. Progressives have nothing clear to hang their hat on. They wanted a public option, but Obama was never serious about providing it. Progressives were willing to accept an opt-out, even an early Medicare buy-in.

Politically, giving progressives that bone would have made all the difference. The personal attacks and sniping we're seeing would be much more muted and there would be much more unity of purpose, helping grow support for the bill.

That matters, because the bill's key elements don't kick in for another 3 or 4 years. That's plenty of time for the reform to be framed negatively, especially if premiums rise before the full implementation is taking place. If progressives haven't been fully brought on board, then it's going to be very difficult to maintain political support for this, especially when there are other reasons to be concerned about whether Democrats will win the 2010 and 2012 elections.

What I see as fundamentally neoliberal about this, though, is the way it is being sold. Progressives are told that even though they didn't get anything they asked for, they should still like the final product. And if they don't, they'll be attacked for not liking it. On a very basic level, that is extremely poor politics - support is gained and coalitions maintained by giving someone what they want, not by denying someone what they want and telling them it's for their own good.

Further, this cramming down of progressives has been the hallmark of neoliberal politics in the US since the Carter Administration. Neoliberalism works by telling people they should forget about their desires, and instead accept a raw deal they didn't buy into out of fear or compulsion. The deal may offer them tangential benefits that are very real and worthwhile, but the deal is stacked to primarily benefit the wealthy, and everyone knows it. Progressives who object to this arrangement are then told that they're selling out the cause by rejecting the deal, that they're being wreckers or don't care about suffering or are willing to let people die to make an ideological point, whatever the issue is. It's one big "Sister Souljah" moment, all designed to ensure progressives don't make trouble for a corporate deal.

There remain very real and plausible concerns and doubts about the effectiveness of what's in the bill, it's not just concern about not getting one's way. But that merely reinforces the neoliberal nature of the bill, and helps explain why progressives are so split on it - a split that cannot be mended, at least not on this issue, not until the second half of the next decade.

And the world will live as one

by Montereyan (robert at calitics dot com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:31:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

Yes, criticism of Hamsher is driven by a desire to delegitimize opposition to the bill, even though those of us who've criticized her here have all sat and debated the bill. Of course.

It wouldn't be FDL without the victim mentality.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 08:49:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 9)

Dear Jane seems to have taken over dKos today. What's galling is that I seem to have missed why this was so

Because she's leading the charge to 'kill the bill' on healthcare and people are fighting for healthcare, not just as if their lives depend on it, but because actual lives depend on it.

It's one thing to push for improvement -- I'm all for fighting and shifting the Overton window -- but it's another thing to hear calls from the left to actually STOP progress because it's not 'good enough.'

We have a fragile coalition and a conservative political environment. This isn't just some fanatical saber-rattling that won't make a difference, this is like the Nader debacle, where the extreme faction actually could make a difference. A difference which makes the right prevail.

I think it's Liebercare related but I thought we were beyond that now that Obama had surrendered

This, combined with your comment the other night that you thought the bill might be more harmful than the status quo, shows how widespread and successful this negativity has been -- a LOT of people have this attitude. So it's a huge fear that the bill won't be passed at all, which would be madness.

While it's not everything I could wish for, the bill would be a huge step forward in this country and, as I mentioned before, would save countless lives. Passing it would be an historic victory. Killing it would ensure that we won't have healthcare in this country for decades -- it won't come up for a vote again in my lifetime, which could be considerably shorter if Jane gets her way.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:36:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

YEa,, that's why largely I'm staying away from in depth HCR stuff. I know it's life and death and that I don't have the involvement that enables me ot work my way into the issues.

I don't expect humanity from republicans, nor even from Blue dogs. But I think the attitude of the WH has been, being charitable, ambivalent about what is the headline legislation of Obama's first term. They may not have had the strongest hand, but they played it so badly that entire books of political kabuki will dissect the many mistakes made along the way.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

The HCR bill (Senate version) obliges healthcare companies to spend, I think, 85% of premiums on actual health services. Currently, I hear it's a patchwork, with states having an obligation in the range of 55-60%.

This is a reduction of the allowed overhead for insurance companies by 50 to 60%. Huge.

There are a number of other provisions that will strongly curtail the slice insurance companies are allowed to take. So when people say it's a boost to these companies, that they've been bought off, I wonder what math they have done.

The argument against mandates is also effectively an argument against solidarity.

So the arguments seem silly to me and to have right wing or glibertarian overtones. Somewhere along the line it seems FDL stopped pushing the overton window and started playing meme lab for the RNC.

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

One amusing bit of what Hamsher spoke of was the 8%/income cap. Shit, most would kill for an 8% cap on premiums.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:19:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Those are really good things (spending mandates? in this country?) which I had no idea were in the works. Once the public option was off the table I stopped following what was going on.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 09:19:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 9)

I guess we'll agree to disagree on Obama's 'ambivalence' and whether or not he's badly playing his hand. I get where the perception comes from, but I think it misjudges the politics of the situation.

It appears to me that a lot of people who are disappointed in Obama and calling him a failure or a sell out, really want him to be a George Bush of the left and 'ram' changes through. There's two problems with this -- the main one being that Obama is working within a hostile environment. Bush was working from a very powerful foundation the right had been laying for at least 35 years on the executive level.

Reagan had the same goals as Bush, yet didn't act like him in office. Why? not because he was better, but because he was operating in an environment where Bush-like moves would not have been possible. Say what you will about the right - they're hard workers! I've paid attention this whole time and can say with confidence that decades of work went into creating the environment which made the last presidency possible.

We flat-out do not have that environment, and Obama is smart and temperate enough to know it. If we want a liberal president who can take bold action without getting pummeled, we have a lot more work to do first.

I think the second reason is probably that Obama really believes his own ideals that one shouldn't actually BE a Bush-like dictator and instead should work within a democratic frame of action. While I find that frustrating because things aren't moving quickly, I respect it.

I agree books will probably be written - I just don't think they'll be about Kabuki.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 9)

Izzy:

we have a lot more work to do first.

I think you got it there.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

Indeed. Can't leave out the provisions Bernie Sanders has pushed through either. These seem to be pretty huge things that haven't gotten much news coverage due to the fight over the public option. Sanders is going to do a lot of good for a lot of people with all that, and he may well have laid the foundation for an eventual Canadian-style system.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 05:59:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 3)

Reading that, its xcellent that they have managed to increase those things but one bit stands out

Sanders Strengthens Senate Health Bill - Newsroom: U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders (Vermont)

Sanders notes some other positive elements of the Senate bill.
"We can talk about the politics, and all of our disappointments," he says, "but at the end of the day you're gonna have 31 million more people who have health insurance--taking us up to some 94 percent [covered]. That's not an insignificant achievement and we shouldn't become too cynical about it."

Those people who can vote against providing healthcare for that last six percent are morally and ethicaly bankrupt. Throwing 18 million people under the bus is one of the most disgusting political actions possible.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 07:04:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

I couldn't agree more, of course, but remember that a large chunk of that 6% are undocumented immigrants. In addition to the obvious political psychosis that accompanies that, it also presents obvious practical problems. I believe that accounts for about 4 or 5 points of the 6. The other 1-2% are people who'd refuse to buy the insurance (mostly young people, if I remember correctly).

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 05:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's a good place to start (none / 0)

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/12/21/35-ways-to-fix-the-bad-senate-health-bill/

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 07:35:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's a good place to start (4.00 / 3)

Missed step 0: convince the US body politic that government is not necessarily bad.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 08:14:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's a good place to start (none / 0)

The body politic doesn't need convincing. The Senate does. The public option was the most popular provision with the public.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 09:20:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's a good place to start (4.00 / 3)

My point was the work we have to do shifting the Zeitgeist out of its current neoliberal set.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 02:02:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 7)

I think we err when we say that strong presidential leadership is inherently dictatorial or Bush-like. Many progressives want Obama to be the FDR of the left, or the LBJ of the left - someone who knows how to use the power of the presidency, within the rules, to drive a progressive agenda through Congress.

Obama has those same tools - formal and informal, Constitutional and political - at his disposal. He has so far not chosen to use them the way FDR and LBJ did. Obama made little to no effort to pressure the Senate to embrace a public option. Obama could well have done so. Senators are not all powerful - they have bills they want signed, programs they want funded. Presidents often use those as leverage to get Senators to do what they wish. That may not have been Madison's vision, but it has been a part of American politics for nearly 80 years.

Obama is pursuing his agenda, which is a basically neoliberal agenda. As with the neoliberal agenda, there are elements of it that are attractive to progressives, otherwise neoliberalism would never have survived 30 years in this country. But his agenda is not a progressive agenda, and it is not the agenda of FDR or LBJ.

Obama could well have chosen a progressive agenda, and could have taken advantage of the 2008 political victory to make that a reality. He decided that wasn't what he wanted to do, and so here we are, with some of the left siding with Obama, and some of us not, at least on health care.

I feel confident about how this will end - in reinforcement of corporate power, some reforms that help people but remain vulnerable to the eventual return of the right-wing in a few years' time, a return that would not have been inevitable had a more progressive path been taken.

That is the fate of not just American center-left neoliberalism, but Canadian center-left neoliberalism and British center-left neoliberalism.

And the world will live as one

by Montereyan (robert at calitics dot com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:40:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I'm not conflating leadership with dictatorship -- I'm saying I've noticed some of the complaints seem to want him to behave like a lefty-Bush (bearing in mind I'm responding to reading fights elsewhere and not only on this blog).

I understand your criticisms and concerns and even share some of them. My main contentions are that 1) Obama may have the same tools, but a completely different political climate -- plus, neither example cited was up against the sort of corporate and media monoliths that exist today; 2) fighting to improve the bill is great - calling for killing it is destructive -- I don't think there's any question that it will establish healthcare as a duty of government and save lives, and 3) the vitriol and assigning of bad motives that I've been reading is stunning.

The rhetoric in this debate has gotten really heated, which is understandable, so I want to add that I always appreciate your thoughtful replies, even when we disagree (so, yes, the offer to take you to Phillipe's French Dips on your next visit is still on).

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 03:15:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

I won't repeat what Montereyan said, because his misgivings are almost exactly identical with my own.

But from the UK perspective, the vitriol, such as it is, is fueled by Obama's increasingly uncanny resemblance to Blair - another leader who was willing to give populist devils their due to somewhat less than the minimal extent needed to assure votes, while secretly believing fervently in neoliberal aims and means, and supporting the corporates against the people they feed off.

When people voted for Blair in 1997, they voted for someone who wasn't a grasping and condescending Tory.

They got someone who was a grasping and condescending Tory, but who was willing to splash some cash around to keep them quiet and voting on demand.

Obama looks very similar. People voted for someone they thought would represent them and fight for them. Instead they've been given someone who seems intent on fighting them, putting them in their place, and managing already low expectations of what they can expect from a Democrat.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 08:26:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 5)

Now that we have a good idea of what ETers think of Ms. Hamsher, i can only say she's one of the reasons i ended up here. Now, i'm not saying my ending up here is a good thing for ET, but being here is certainly a fine privilege in my book.

I was attracted to FDL simply because of the level of info about Plamegate, which was one of the nastiest attacks perpetrated in Denmark-on-the-Potomac. Jane came recommended by an acquaintance from frisco, Howie Klein, of Down with Tyranny fame. (and later Act Blue?) I respected him because of his time as pres at Warner Bros Records, and he was much more mature about politics than me.

What really got me into FDL was Marcy's erudition on Plamegate. On that issue, she really knew her stuff, and i spread out from there. The live-blogging of the trial was incredible, FDL having secured a pass from Queen Arriana.

Long story short, Jane lumped me in with some nasties over Hilary, from which i derived she was unstable (though well-meaning) and not prone to fact-checking. After all i contributed, the door was easy for me to slam on the way out. (Slammed silently by just stopping.)

I've visited about once a year since, and miss none of it. The level here is light-years beyond what happens there.

To which thanks go all around. When i remember the level of discourse there, you should all be proud of yourselves for being a shining example of what blogging aspires to be. Is there a more civil discussion of real issues anywhere else, backed by real erudition?

And Jane, it's not about you.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 05:12:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All I'll say on FDL (none / 1)

is that Marcy Wheeler is a brilliant investigator/writer, and that I'll always have a soft spot for nyceve, who is now paid at FDL but started as a lowly anonymous writer on dKos, bringing to our consciousness all the healthcare horror stories she lived through and then was sent.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 07:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All I'll say on FDL (none / 0)

Can't speak to nyceve, but Marcy dove into the trenches and came out brilliant, though i've not been reading her for two years or more. i just think the tone and quality here is of another order.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 07:42:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All I'll say on FDL (none / 0)

nyceve is an ET member and wellwisher, even though she's rarely contributed here.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:58:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: All I'll say on FDL (none / 0)

She's probably the most incisive writer there is on the US health care mess.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 03:53:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

Bully, wot.

A cold alley in central London is a far cry from a palace -- but it was the spot Prince William chose to sleep to highlight the plight of homeless British teenagers. He spent a chilly night near Blackfriars Bridge last week with Seyi Obakin, the chief executive of British homeless charity Centrepoint. William has been the charity's patron since 2005.
Read more...

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:04:00 PM EST

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 10)

I'm quite sure that he was never more than 20 yards from a squad of SAS to keep problems at bay or a silken bellpull away from a flunky with tea and toast.

that's not sleeping rough, that's camping in the middle of london. Sleeping rough is about not knowing where your next food or drink is coming from. Of never being able to rest because you know somoeone might piss on you or rob you or kick you or beat you up so badly you end up in hospital. Never being able to relax because you've never arrived, always in transit, it's like sitting in an airport waiting for a flight that never takes off and everything in the rip off restaurants airside is too expensive.

I would be more impressed if I didn't hear about it until long afterwards, if it came out that he'd long worked quietly to provide safe spaces and halfway houses for people coming off the street. After all it's not like he's short of a bob or two and can't afford to do something substantial.

Hell, Jamie Oliver did more than he did with 15, and he personally put over a million of his own money on the line to pay for it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

Nice rant.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More like (none / 0)

...sleeping 120 grit

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

Helen:

it's not like he's short of a bob or two

You sure?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:17:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

I bet his credit's good. Certainly enough to do something real about rough sleepers if he was so minded.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

last 10 days (none / 1)

after a gaggle of days of madness, I've finally delivered the Daughters of Rebellion for their Jul at one of Finland's mist beautiful houses, wrapped the few presents I intend to give, and am now happily alone with nothing particular to do except pick up a case of my favourite wine tomorrow from our friendly state alcohol monopoly (who ordered it specially). I do not intend to appear in public for 72 hours after that.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:58:05 PM EST

Re: last 10 days (none / 1)

Schizoid Personality Disorder

[DSM-IV-R (1994)]

"a pervasive pattern of indifference to social relationships"

People with this disorder do not seem to desire or enjoy close relationships with other people. They almost always choose solitary activities.

Scandinavia contain areas with this highest prevalence rates of schizophrenia, schizoaffective psychoses, schizotypal personality, and schizoid personality disorder.

;-)

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dr Caligari's Cabin Fever (4.00 / 3)

The extreme is justified in moderation. I've absolutely nothing against people - some of them are quite lovable. But sometimes it is nice to listen to Groove Salad, go herbalissimo and finger the PG Tips pyramid bag jar regularly, on my own.

Virtual companionship is fine: no bacon sandwiches have to be prepared, my bathroom is not full of strange emollients and I am not forced to listen to endless episodes of 'Friends'.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: last 10 days (none / 1)

don't be stranger here tho'.

We'll forgive incoherence as the day progresses. Well, anyway I won't notice yours due to my own.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:26:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: last 10 days (none / 1)

No - in fact I have more time for ET right now.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:41:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: last 10 days (none / 0)

BTW I discovered Stewart Lee today. I find him intelligently funny.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:42:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: last 10 days (none / 1)

He's a bit Penn and Teller for me. His skills are great, but he likes to show you the mechanism at work more than he wants to amuse.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: last 10 days (4.00 / 2)

I managed to finish present-hunting today. But I am not impressed with myself. In prior years, buying Christmas presents was a mad rush in the last 2-3 days before 24th, so this year I wanted to do it differently -- and began two weeks earlier. It shouldn't have taken this long...

The last item BTW was Roberto Saviano's Gomorrah for a literature-read relative. I sought it for long, but it seems I was looking for it on the wrong shelves: I found it tucked away among crime pulp fiction...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:02:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's entire approach to politics (4.00 / 2)

Stephen Walt has another of his Obama critiques up at Foreign Policy, Let's Face It: Obama Isn't a Very Good Negotiator.

Third, this episode offers another revealing glimpse at Obama's diplomatic style; indeed, his entire approach to politics. A master of soaring rhetorical style, he sets ambitious goals and imposes short deadlines (remember when he said he wanted to get a two-state solution in his first term?). When those lofty goals (inevitably) turn out to be unreachable, he grabs what's available (a flawed health care deal, more photo-op "diplomacy" in the Middle East, a compromise "surge" in Afghanistan, etc.), and talks about the need to keep "moving forward."
...
By setting too many lofty goals, and showing a too-ready willingness to cut deals in order to save face, Obama is teaching his opponents that he's never going to walk away and that they can always get a better deal if they stonewall him and drag things out as long as they can. That's a problem no matter who is doing it: the GOP, China, the Karzai government, Benjamin Netanyahu, or Iran. What makes it worse is Obama's penchant for thrusting himself into the middle of negotiations at the wrong time, as he did over the City of Chicago's Olympics bid and as he appears to have done in Copenhagen as well...
But what really worries me is that Obama is in fact making the best of a set of bad options, and that it still won't be nearly good enough.

by Magnifico on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:13:34 PM EST

Re: Obama's entire approach to politics (none / 1)

I still think he's surrounded by bad advisors. emmanuel was really a bad start and all along the way given the choice between the left and the centre right, he took the latter everytime in the hope of buying peace.

But you don't compromise with intransigence, it just takes what you offer and wants more.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:29:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's entire approach to politics (4.00 / 2)

Exiling Volcker and Bernstein and Goolsbee in favor of Summers should've been a big red flag.

Magnifico's quotes sum up the problem quite well, I think.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:35:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The "bad advice" myth (4.00 / 2)

This is why I was concerned about Obama taking advice from Colin Powell.

I wrote a couple of years ago:

Obama did and it is one of the reasons I question his judgement too. If Powell is exemplar of the "wise" council any other candidate for president chooses, then I will question his or her judgment as well.

And:

A president cannot be an expert on everything, so I think whom he or she seeks as council is important.
Therefore, the company a president keeps and the advice he or she listens to is important to my decision making process.

Obama has bad advisors, but he chose them.

by Magnifico on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's entire approach to politics (4.00 / 4)

Obama is a victim of the insane American worship of "bipartisanship" which is predicated on the belief that the problem with politics is the fighting between two parties rather than the corruption within those parties.

NOTHING good in American history was done without opposition. Unfortunately history is a subject often ridiculed as "unimportant" in the US educational system and thus...

by paving on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:08:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's entire approach to politics (none / 1)

the belief that the problem with politics is the fighting between two parties rather than the corruption within those parties.

..and the collusion between those two parties to maintain the system.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 10:35:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's entire approach to politics (none / 1)

Obama is gifted but inexperienced. He lacks experienced people to fill management and important staff positions so he had to go outside his circle and tap people whose loyalties are elsewhere. Plus, he's a wuss. He's not willing to take someone out just to show he can do it.

He would have been a good spokesman for a Democratic legislative agenda. Where he is, he's becoming a disaster.

Obama's the right guy in the wrong place.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:01:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's entire approach to politics (none / 1)

"Obama is gifted but inexperienced."

I think this is the crux of the matter. However, he's a lot less inexperienced now than he was a year ago.

My hope is that he will realize one of these days that he was rolled by the generals on Afghanistan, and finds an excuse to change direction. The other stuff is largely the result, I think, of having a completely intransigent Republican party and a mostly uncooperative Democratic party. Considering what he started with, I think he's doing ok--except for the war part.

All he has to do is take a week off and get his head together. I'm pretty sure he can learn, and probably he's brave enough to change his mind on things when it becomes clear that they're not going in the right direction.

The way out is for the DNC to get off its butt and get the liberal votes out for the 2010 elections. With a few more seats in the Senate, in particular, he would not have to tread so tightly to the absolute center line between the parties.

by asdf on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 01:55:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

One of my main tools to prepare the Shell's for the Salon is the wiki. The last few times when I have been preparing some, I came across the following message:

AppealCH/ch - Wikimedia Foundation

Today, I am asking you to make a donation to support Wikipedia.
I started Wikipedia in 2001, and over the past eight years, I've been amazed and humbled to see hundreds of thousands of volunteers join with me to build the largest encyclopedia in human history.
Wikipedia isn't a commercial website. It's a community creation, entirely written and funded by people like you. More than 340 million people use Wikipedia every month - almost a third of the Internet-connected world. You are part of our community.
I believe in us. I believe that Wikipedia keeps getting better. That's the whole idea. One person writes something, somebody improves it a little, and it keeps getting better, over time. If you find it useful today, imagine how much we can achieve together in 5, 10, 20 years.
Wikipedia is about the power of people like us to do extraordinary things. People like us write Wikipedia, one word at a time. People like us fund it. It's proof of our collective potential to change the world.
We need to protect the space where this important work happens. We need to protect Wikipedia. We want to keep it free of charge and free of advertising. We want to keep it open - you can use the information in Wikipedia any way you want. We want to keep it growing - spreading knowledge everywhere, and inviting participation from everyone.

I am posting it, in case you haven't seen it yet.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:36:04 PM EST

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 11)

Back in Minneapolis yet again, this time for Christmas. It is cold and there is snow on the ground. No mega-storm like the east coast had, but we're due for a good one tomorrow.

My three or four week "travel hangover" seems to have passed (a nasty sensation of fear, loneliness, and despair wrapped in one). Now life feels bland. That part was predictable, at least, whereas the how/what/when of the travel hangover was unknown until it happened. So my challenge is to get enough Good Things in my life such that life doesn't feel so bland. I doubt "regular life" can match how I felt while traveling, but that's ok. I think I can make regular life more interesting than it has been in the past, but if I can't, I'm going to consider more drastic options.

Regardless of how that plays out, I'm going to hit the road again in two or three years. Being in love with life like that is not something I am willing to experience only once.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 03:52:45 PM EST

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

MillMan:

Being in love with life like that is not something I am willing to experience only once.

born for cultural pollination, methinks.

you'll be welcome to stop by if you do, meanwhile good luck alchemising the banal!

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

Well also the universe informed that I should be a massage therapist, so I've been thinking about how to explore/do that - along with how to deal with it. I should email you about that, actually.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 09:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

got a call on the red phone, huh?

splendid, it will balance your intellectuality, and give it plenty of spacetime to ruminate once your hands learn to find their own way.

try and find a book called 'job's body'. it will help you prepare.

here's where i was working a couple of weeks ago

by all means email me

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 10:06:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

Hope you will listen to the universe!!! And I agree with melo "job's body" is a must read if you want to head that way.

And maybe it is now a time in your life cycle for inner jounrey's until you are ready to travel again. I reread a few weeks ago Dan Millman's "The peaceful warrior" and I think, it's be a book you might enjoy at the present time, especially as he shares also your name. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 12:59:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

that's great you know that book, fran!

another great writer is hugh milne, who gives classes in craniosacral therapy at wupperthal, in switzerland.

he also teaches in the USA and germany. if you're interested in a shamanic approach, read his stuff.

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 08:34:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good luck (none / 1)

I doubt "regular life" can match how I felt while traveling, but that's ok.

Even while I haven't made as grand an undertaking you have this year, I know the feeling well. It'll work out, one way or the other.

As I recently mused in my Norway journals, I've not been able (yet?) to match the level of that first experience during further travels. Perhaps there is no such thing as two first experiences. But well. I am not you.

In the meantime, enjoy family and the winter season.

by Nomad on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 05:51:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 1)

I got nothing. Have designated today a "do nothing I don't want to do" day so I'm preparing food, always a favorite.

The world? Going to Hell? I look to Berlu and Italy as a model so nothing surprises me, other than typing on my laptop and magically communicating with people throughout the world. Back in the early '70s, in college, I would have thought blogging the stuff of an over-active imagination.

I wish you all well but I expect the worst, and am rarely disappointed.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:20:45 PM EST

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (none / 0)

Try to imagine what this service would cost and how many beneficiaries would enjoy rents if Zip® (for one) retained ULR acting IP trustee.

As a daily user of the excellent Vélib self-service bicycles of Paris, I find it hard to be optimistic over the latest transport revolution from Mayor Bertrand Delanoe: self-service electric cars.
Instant car rental already operates in many cities, including Paris. The novelty of Delanoe's scheme is its very ambitious scale and the use of all-electric vehicles. A week ago, Delanoe opened the "Autolib" project to tender from potential operators. Renault, Peugeot and Daimler are possible suppliers of the 3,000 vehicles, along with new specialised green vehicle firms.
Read more...

(Never mind "ambitious scale" of operations at launch is a poison pill expected to kill buyers after sellers exit the scheme.)

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 04:34:15 PM EST

The International (4.00 / 2)

On the second day with this film, having listened to a brilliant Tom Tykwer dissect his film, with little help from a screenwriter who obviously knew his stuff but resisted Tykwer's professionalism and vision all along the path. I'm now going to listen to Tykwer and his editor do it again in German.

OK, it gets violent, but that is the effect of modern banking. Still, there has never ever been a better film using architecture as metaphor about shady international banking than this one. It defies concept or genre, maintaining as intelligent a stance as you can get taking film money.

If you haven't seen this film, do so now. If you have seen it and disagree, do so know. If you won't see this film, we know where you live. Three thumbs up, and two brains interconnected with effervescent modern concrete structure and fascist train stations. Added bonus, the destruction of the Guggenheim (Babelsberg).

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 05:34:22 PM EST

In case anyone's interested.... (4.00 / 2)

The latest issue of our journal [Institute of Caribbean Studies] is out:

ÍNDICE·CONTENTS·SOMAIRE
Vol. 37 No. 1 January-June 2009
Artículos·Articles·Articles
Judith Rollins
Nevisian Women's Gender and Consciousness: Content and Sources
Jérôme Pruneau
Stéphanie Melyon-Reinette
Danielle Agnès
«Maché an Mas-la!» Ethnographie de l'usage symbolique du corps «charnel» dans le carnaval guadeloupéen
Dossier Cuba
José M. Aguilera Manzano
The Informal Communication Network built by Domingo del Monte from Havana between 1824 and 1845
José Gomariz
Gertrudis Gómez de Avellaneda y la intelectualidad reformista cubana. Raza, género e identidad en Sab
Michael Zeuske
Orlando García Martínez
La Amistad de Cuba: Ramón Ferrer, contrabando de esclavos, captividad y modernidad atlántica
Félix Valdés García
El discurso de Calibán, o de la filosofía en el Caribe
In Memoriam
Idsa E. Alegría Ortega
In Memoriam Dr. Rafael L. Ramírez (1935-2009)
Varios autores
Recordando a Rafa: testimonios de colegas y amigos
Almaluces Figueroa & Carmen G. Romero
Rafael L. Ramírez, 1935-2009: Bibliografía
Nota de investigación·Research Note·Note de Recherche
Ana M. Fabián
Estudio de opinión sobre la transportación en Vieques, Puerto Rico
Reseñas de libros·Book Reviews·Comptes Rendus
Ivonne Daniel. 2005. Dancing Wisdom: Embodied Knowledge in Haitian Vodou, Cuban Yoruba, and Bahian Candomble (Peter Savastano)
Louis Sala-Molins. 2006. The Dark Side of the Light: Slavery and the French Enlightenment. (Gene Ogle)
David V. Moskowitz. 2007. Bob Marley: A Biography/Garry Steckles. 2008. Bob Marley. (Stephen A. King)
Guillermo B. Irizarry. 2006. José Luis González: El intelectual nómada. (Raúl Guadalupe de Jesús)
Alex Dupuy. 2007. The Prophet and Power: Jean-Bertrand Aristide, the International Community, and Haiti. (Aarón Gamaliel Ramos)
Fernando Martínez Heredia. 2007. La revolución cubana del 30: Ensayos. (Frank Argote- Freyre)
José Abreu Cardet. 2007. Las fronteras de la guerra: Mujeres, soldados, y regionalismo en el 68. (Laura Muñoz)
Reinaldo L. Román. 2007. Governing Spirits: Religions, Miracles, and Spectacles in Cuba and Puerto Rico, 1898-1956. (Olívia Gomes da Cunha)
Harvey R. Neptune .2007. Caliban and the Yankees: Trinidad and the United States Occupation. (Richard Lee Turits)
Raúl A. Fernández. 2006. From Afro-Cuban Rhythms to Latin Jazz. (Ted A. Henken)
Samiri Hernández Hiraldo. 2006. Black Puerto Rican Identity and Religious Experience. (Ivette Chiclana Miranda)
Noticias y eventos·News and Events·Nouvelles et Événements

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne

by maracatu on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 05:44:32 PM EST

Friendly US customs experience (none / 1)

US passport control and customs when flying from Aruba are actually located in Aruba (and thus you can land in the US in a domestic terminal).

No queue, and an amazingly friendly officer at the booth, who actually helped us fill our forms and joked with us.

No snow here in Atlanta. Paris tomorrow.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Dec 22nd, 2009 at 07:37:52 PM EST

Re: Tuesday Open Thread (4.00 / 2)

I was in the bicycle store today and fooled around with a hybrid bike. It was pretty fun! You ride just like always, but when it senses that you're pedaling, it helps a bit. Sort of like having the wind at your back...

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bikes/model/twist.freedom.dx.w/5732/36617/

by asdf on Wed Dec 23rd, 2009 at 02:01:24 AM EST

Tuesday Open Thread | 95 comments (95 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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