When did the crisis start?

by Jerome a Paris
Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 07:18:48 AM EST

As the graph below shows, the financial crisis appears to be almost 2 years old now, with CDOs emissions stopping growing brutally duing the winter of 2007, and collapsing during the summer. This was followed by the rating downgrades, suggesting that rating agencies have simply been observers ex post rather than analysts ex ante of problems:

The results were visible in the bank losses (starting in third quarter 2007 numbers), and in things like bonus payments (already down in 2007 compared to 2006) and hedge fund assets (down only starting in 2008):

The impact on the "real economy" came in the second half of 2008, in the form of job losses (accelerating in the fourth quarter), and a brutal change in the long term trend towards more debt and lower savings rates:


But, in fact, it took about 3 years (or even 4, if you look at the NAR index) from the actual trigger event: the top of the US housing market, which underpinned a whole mountain of (bad) debt and spending:

The most striking element is that financial markets needed a year to react to the top of the market being visible - and that, of course, after several years of numerous observers screaming that the asset price increases were absolutely unsustainable (and unprecedented) - and that it took yet another year for that to trickle back to the very home owners that got caught in the housing bubble in the first place.

And politicians all along saw nothing, and did nothing, until it was too late.


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So from the last graph, any financial instrument that included mortgages that only worked  on the assumption that house prices would continue to rise that was sold since 2005 was sold fraudulently?  and anyone who actually brought one since that time was negligent in not checking? (beyond base stupidity in buy ing such things in the first place)

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 07:38:35 AM EST
It is not a wonder that the expected fraction of nonperforming mortgages issued since 2005 beggars belief.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:14:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But of course no one saw the financial crisis coming.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:23:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the actual one



In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:24:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That does tend to suggest that the crisis has been occurring for far longer than politicians would like to suggest.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:28:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The "expected" one hovers around 2/3...

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:40:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, to use your analogy, all of the above until Q4 08 was the car driver hitting the windscreen as he slammed on the brakes.

The effects of the deflation of the other Bubble - the Private Equity Bubble - are already becoming apparent. So we are now entering the real Crash - the productive sector Crash -  as collapse of incomes has second order effects on property prices. If you are unemployed, it doesn't really matter what your mortgage is - you can't afford it except from (non-existent, courtesy of the Anglo Disease) savings.

There can be no equitable solution to this Crash involving Debt: the previously unthinkable alternative is to reinvent Equity.

Modern conservatives engage in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy: the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.Galbraith

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 07:57:03 AM EST
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!

[Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 07:59:22 AM EST
[Jerome's WEEEEEE™ Technology]

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:25:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]


"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char
by Melanchthon on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:33:28 AM EST
The crisis began in 1973, then?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:41:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is just the terminal and most visible stage of a long illness.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 09:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and blame it squarely on Reagan.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 09:11:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly.
by Maryb2004 on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 12:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the divergence between the two measures did not exceed 1950s values until Ronnie's first term and never again converged.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 11:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Note that the level is set to 1 in 1973 for both, arbitrarily.

The measures that one should look at to look for divergence are the slopes or year-to-year (percentage) changes.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 03:37:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 10:48:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Shouldn't all these graphs and our explaination be thrown together as a video, drop it onto youtube?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:49:00 AM EST
In reverse chronological order, with the chart about saving rates declining since Reagan's first term and median household income declining relative to GDP since 1973 as grand finale.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:50:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Interspersed with a bunch of politicians and media figures saying no one could have seen it coming.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do we have video of Greenspan's "shocked disbelief"?

Some FT, WSJ or Economist op-ed or editorial titles about the end of capitalism as we know it might be good, too.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:55:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have togo out at the moment but I'll look when I get back.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 10:37:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone have links to clips of politicians or journalists saying there is no way anyone could have seen this coming? or newspaper articles with similar sentiments?


If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 08:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great work Jerome.  Better than words - although somehow even more depressing than words.
by Maryb2004 on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 12:41:25 PM EST
ooohh that block chart on job losses is scary looking, like boots or pistons stomping down down down

Around here (mid-New England) the housing bubble started puffing up in mid-2003, and crapped out about Jan-Feb 2006.  To me that is when the crisis started.  I associate it with the falling of house prices, because I knew that at that point there was no where for house prices to go but down.  I thought they would go back to mid-2003 three levels, and I would say they have reached that point just now (if that is helpful for someone).  My guess is that they will overshoot on the downside somewhat as all the foreclosures process through (and of course current rampant job losses will hinder "recovery"), and then it will be a matter of each neighborhood and each particular house with its unique features and location finding its own price level based on reality.  No more of this 3 bedroom ranch house with a garage, therefore it costs xxx.  Back during the crazy peak house prices were divorced from reality.  It has taken a long time for the reality of real estate prices to steep through the market, and of course for those who don't have to sell, they can hold on to their delusions.  

Obviously to me this crisis is/was all based on the deceptions and excesses in the housing markets, because of the near zero mortgage rates and the clever tricks of the non-bank mortgage companies.  I don't really blame banks as much as I do the fly-by-nights, but of course, they've long flown, while the banks have stuck around for the flogging (if it ever comes).  And I am a fan of local banks, particularly credit unions.

by jjellin on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 04:30:35 PM EST
The vast majority of the bottom 8,000 banks are likely to be found to be largely blameless.  I plan to have discussions with two local bank v.p.s asap on this subject.  My guess is that the top 100 banking institutions in the USA share >99% of the banking culpability, with probably 90% belonging to the top 10.  If we could just get the top ten safely in the ground, with stakes through their hearts, recovery could begin.  I suspect that these guys will agree.  Their banks were conservatively run and are now making loans and advertising the availability of loans.  The whole non-bank "mortgage origination" and "mortgage broker" business was a creation of the de-regulators.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 11:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The whole non-bank "mortgage origination" and "mortgage broker" business was a creation of the de-regulators.
Right. The smaller banks didn't have the wherewithal (or the motivation) to get the mortgage brokerage business industry started.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 03:35:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's funny, because in Denmark it's been the other way around: The big banks are not (yet) in really serious trouble (that we know about). Oh, Danske Bank took a pretty nasty hit from its foreign loans last quarter, but it's still just equity (i.e. shareholders) getting burned. Insolvency does not appear (caveat lector: appear) to be on the horizon for the big boys.

Whereas several of the smaller and mid-sized banks went totally apeshit over the housing bubble and are now being quietly - and in one or two cases not so quietly - dismantled.

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 11:12:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From mid-New England? Then you're not very far away from Capuano's constituency.



Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 03:40:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am about 35 miles (as the crow flies) to the west of Capuano right now.  But I did live in his area for a short time many years ago when I was in my early 20s, so I know Somerville/Medford.  

That was an excellent little speech he gave, btw.

by jjellin on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 04:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/2/12/125228/516/46/696617

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 12th, 2009 at 04:33:40 PM EST
This exchange is just sad.

If that's what Americans mean by "progressive" maybe we should let them keep that label...

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 11:35:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Daily Kos: Comments When did the financial crisis really start?
However, I need to ask the question. How can a bar stay in business when it is paying family health care. The answer is it can't.

The unfortunate truth is some jobs are just not capable of supporting families. Fast Food, most waitress jobs, and grocery baggers are not career jobs.

This guy calls himself lone republican. That explains it, I would hope.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Feb 13th, 2009 at 11:44:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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