How not to take ET for granted

by Jerome a Paris
Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 02:32:18 AM EST

After all the meta discussions of the past day or two, I'd like to suggest some ways to move forward. I am, and the other frontpagers are, very grateful for all the messages of support thanks or encouragement, but would like to propose a few ways through which the ET experience can continue to be as pleasant as possible for all of us:

  • don't take the Salon, and Fran, for granted. It's a huge amount of work to prepare that press review, and it can turn into a rather thankless task. This is not a machine-generated thread! Don't forget to give her some feedback and, more importantly, don't hesitate to bring in your own contributions - news from your part of the world or about your area of expertise or interest; comments or additional info about any topic already discussed. And remember, there is a "Klatsch" section: it need not be the most serious or highbrow stuff;

  • the Salon mostly includes news from traditional news sources; if you read other interesting blogs, maybe they have content worth sharing - don't hesitate to bring that in as well;

  • we probably need to interact more with other blogs, especially European ones. Beyond bringing items in the Salon, it might be good to also do diaries when there is worthwhile content. And this should go both ways: if you are a regular on other blogs, don't hesitate to post links to relevant ET content when the topic is discussed on that blog: that will bring in ore eyeballs to the site, and more exchange with other blogs (we'll try to do the same on the frontpage; I know I've been  reacting maybe too exclusively to the FT, and always welcome other sources posted in the Salon or Open Threads; that should include other blogs);

  • do write more diaries about things around you - photo diaries, "object" blogging, the latest big debate in your country: a local eye will usually bring much more interesting perspective than that of the "embedded" journalists from the major media outlets on the same topic. If enough regulars did a diary of that kind per month, it would vastly enrich the diversity of the site;

  • in that same perspective, it would be great if all of us could try to start writing regularly on the forthcoming European elections: this is certainly our intent on the frontpage, but we're going to need your help to have coverage from as many countries as possible, to discuss things like what the local voting procedures are, who the main parties are (and how they are aligned with the main EP groups), what the election debate is about, and any other relevant topic. This is not a "hot" topic now, but ET should be in a position - and we need to make it happen - to provide unmatched coverage of this election, and we need YOU to make it happen;

  • as a general rule, don't feel intimidated by us - we all started as lurkers, and took our time to be comfortable online. You'll always be welcome on ET, and your contributions valued. We like both facts and opinions (just try not to mix them up too much!), arcane topics and anything in-between.

As many have noted, this is a community blog: its value comes from all of us providing many different things. There is no editorial line per se (I've given my position on a number of things recently here, but these are my opinions, not an official "line", and they are definitely not all shared by other frontpagers, let alone by the rest of the community), so the site will feel like what is posted on it - and that can certainly include your posts on topics that you care about. In fact, as a final request, I really hope we can drop criticism about "ET is not doing enough about this or that": please do it. If we're not doing it, it's not necesarily that we don't care, just that we don't know enough to write about it, or are not even aware of some of the underlying issues: if you enlighten us by writing about it, the site wil be better for it, ans, hopefully, so will we.


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I must admit that the Salon is a huge, fantastic feature to have, that it very clearly means a lot of work, and that we all forget to thank Fran for that.

So, knowing that I will forget again in the future, Fran, thanks, you have beenby far my main source of information this past year. I hope to be able to gradually contribute more, to the Salon and elsewhere, but realise that I haven't so far.

"Few can believe that suffering, especially by others, is in vain. - Galbraith"

by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 02:55:47 AM EST
I really appreciate the Salon.  I haven't been participating much lately (I'm working on my PhD.), but I've kept up reading.

And I really appreciate the salon.

I'm taking a class on the European Union, and ET often works a lot like a daily primer.  It's great.

One of the "make work" assignments that we have is to keep up a "European Journal", a story about the EU a day.

I've been fighting with the FT to get my delivery (The address they have is in the middle of a street.), and it works really well, because the salon allows me to keep up since that hasn't arrived yet.

So...... thanks Fran!

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 07:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very well put and clear, though I would venture to say that very few here ever took ET for granted.  I'll bet the large majority of folks here recognize the amount of work and dedication it takes to keep ET up and running at its high level.  But we probably weren't vocal enough about it, and I do think the appropriate method of respecting the effort is posting news and "stuff" of your own.

One of the great media personalities in San Francisco over the past decades was alternative newscaster Scoop Nisker, who'd sign off his broadcasts with:
     "If you don't like the news, go out and make some of your own."

Aside, I'd like to second an increase in diarying from countries seemingly under-represented on ET to date.  That kind of information is particularly fascinating to me, and hopefully many of us, attempting to get a handle on current Europe.  ET is a microcosm, after all.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 04:45:49 AM EST
Where are those photo diaries on Bremen ? :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 06:21:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I know I for one feel a bit dubious about linking to blogs in the salon (That dosn't mean that I don't do it)I suppose they're not 'Serious' enough, but I will be throwing more in if it's ok

As usual thanks to Fran for the work that goes into it.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 05:39:10 AM EST
Would it make it more "okay" if there were a separate blogging section?

Then again, we are having blogs like Beppe Grillo and Paul Krugman quoted in the salon.

It is probably most likely that blogs will be quoted below the related news items.

But we do quote op-eds, too. How is an op-ed different from a blog entry, really?

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 05:41:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No I just post less there than I could,  and I wouldn't want Fran to think she has to look through yet more of the internet if she had an extra section to put up.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 05:46:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bloggers being snobby about bloggers?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 05:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If they are "serious" blogs from people who are or ought to be "expert quotes" in a newspaper article, or are giving an eyewitness account, that seems a natural to me, especially if it is in reply to a story that is posted ...

... and if they are less serious blogs, it would be understood that there is no necessary claim that they are any authority if they are added to Klatsch.

So I don't think any additional structure is required ... just the temerity to start doing it.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 05:54:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are blogs definitely well quoting depending on the subject: TPM for insider's DC politics, Juan Cole for the Middle-East; I remember having quoted (and translated) Maitre Eolas about that case when a French journalist was held in police custody in Paris for a libel case.

It is far from systematic, but in some cases, the best source I can find is actually a blog from someone who happens to have a lot of knowledge on the particular matter in question and can provide much deeper insights than anything you find in conventional news sources.

Again, no general rules, it's all about finding the best piece of information and, possibly, that extra insight we feel can be worth sharing here on ET...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 05:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
taking ET for granted.  There, I said/typed it.

So, my own personal remedy.

My most valuable asset is my sterling wit time.  I currently donate tutoring time to deserving students who otherwise could not afford my services. Therefore, I now pledge to ET one, count it ...one, hour of my time per day in service, starting tomorrow Friday Feb. whatever.

What form this time/service will take I do not know.  Suggestions are welcome.  I'm putting my time/money where my mouth/keyboard is.

P.S. I'll attempt to be sober during "service time" and keep capital letters to a minimum.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 06:38:23 AM EST
Write a diary from time to time. About stuff you know about and that interests you: science, applied science, what you think about equality of access to higher education and how it might be improved, truffles, what an ideal world would look like, etc etc...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 09:08:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Truffles!

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 09:12:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly my thoughts...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 09:16:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thoughts ? I thought you were the "no brain no pain" type, kinda Buddhist :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 10:51:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was acknowledging the pain - which, thanks to sciatica - is rather nasty today. I had to cancel the dentist because I couldn't lie down flat on my back.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 11:12:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry to hear that.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 12:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
do you know any reflexologists? good deep foot massage can be helpful.

fran, when's your dvd yoga course coming out?

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 01:37:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As a matter of fact I do. I'm going to call them.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 02:35:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
  1.  I want to do something I can enjoy.  I don't want it to turn into a job. (UGH!)  The series I was going to do some months ago about the "Embryonic Police State" was too much of a bummer although Italy seems to have a good headstart on the rest of us.

  2.  I am a crappy typist and I have a bad back.  That limits my ability as a typist/diarist but you've got plenty of those kind of folks and I'm always one to plow my own furrow.

  3.  Thus, I'm thinking more of the visual media in which I collect audio/visual stuff (I'm not a photographer) and I DO have a built-in camera on my laptop and will be looking for appropriate solfware to use with linux.  No, no porn movies starring moi. My camera wouldn't pass that stress test.

Anyway, that's my current thought.  Megan II will be by in a few (no, not afew) hours for help in her metabolism/nutrition course or I would have started this project today.  I wonder if I have to be cognizant of the time difference between Europe and CA?  Will keep that in mind.

I love the smell of roast chicken in the morning!
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 12:06:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What I know most about is profoundly depressing mostly.  But, okay I'll do one.

"I said, 'Wait a minute, Chester, You know I'm a peaceful man...'" Robbie Robertson
by NearlyNormal on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 03:58:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How about a diary about the students you tutor? Who are they? Where? What are they studying? Why do they need a tutor? Why are they "deserving"?

Segue from there into discussion of the education system. And thanks for your time.

by Mnemosyne on Sat Feb 28th, 2009 at 07:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you ok with personal diaries on a regular basis? I hesitate because eurotrib isn't an everyday social blog (such as livejournal, for example).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 08:10:18 AM EST
Sure. Someone will mention it if you're over-doing it - one a day might be a bit much under most circumstances - but weekly seems fine, maybe more often if something really exciting is happening.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 08:23:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See here.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 08:45:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, but nomad is an actual writer :)

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 10:45:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm conscious Ireland is probably over represented here in terms of the number of diaries going up - but as with everyone else I'm more comfortable writing about stuff I know a little more about.  I will be trying to do a series on the Euro elections as part of the Thinkaboutit campaign, but again that tends to be Europeans from each member state writing about their own countries.  

It is quite a different expertise to be able to write in a transnational way - it requires a more intimate knowledge of more countries and sometimes languages and it has always struck me that this is, collectively, one of ET's great strengths.  I'm trying to re-direct some of the other 80 Thinkaboutit bloggers this direction as they come from all 27 Member states, but so far that site hasn't really developed a lot of interaction.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 08:58:59 AM EST
Frank Schnittger:
Ireland is probably over represented here
I once convinced myself that the number of registered ET users by country was roughly proportional to the number of fluent English speakers in the country.

Most economists teach a theoretical framework that has been shown to be fundamentally useless. -- James K. Galbraith
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 09:03:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"fluent" ? That's the Irish all right :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 10:54:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A successful site should be a bit like a magazine, there are sections for those with different interests.

I was attracted here originally because Jerome provided a European perspective on things that was missing from dkos. As others in Europe started to contribute as well this added to the value of the site.

My biggest complaint is that we don't have more such people, especially from Asia and the Americas. I suppose their may be a language barrier, plus those searching in their home language won't tend to find this site even if they are bilingual.

I tend not to look at the free form front page diaries, including the klatch and the open thread, but I think that they provide something for others, judging by the traffic they generate. I prefer to go directly to sites which deal with issues I like to follow and use RSS for much of this. Free form threads have a low signal to noise ratio and require too much time to find the gems. As I said others don't agree.

I recently took a couple of pop psychology personality tests and scored low on the dimension which measures interest with social relationships, but high on the analytic dimension. I guess this is why I went into physics and not psychiatry.

Others will be the reverse and the human interest blogs will be the ones they prefer. Unlike printed media there is room for all!

So, I guess I would echo Jerome's point, those who mostly lurk should overcome their shyness and contribute more. If you are not up to a full diary than a few comments will be appreciated.

Policies not Politics
---- Daily Landscape

by rdf (robert.feinman@gmail.com) on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 09:53:32 AM EST
Here's a comment for ya, rdf!  I've been lurking for a loooong time (UID 33), posting a rare comment here and there.  I think the last diary I commented in was a "greatest gutarists" youtube fest.

The quality of commentary on this site always makes me think twice about commenting because I am afraid I'll say something stupid.  That, and I've been in a self-imposed hiatus because of one mistake I made posting to another site under a different username. As comments, go, it wasn't really that egregious, just a lame joke attempt made in very poor taste that got deleted almost immediately by the site admin (thank goodness). That's been at least a year now, so maybe I can trust myself again...

I appreciate everyone's invitations and will make some renewed efforts to comment and maybe even post a diary from time to time.

And though I can't help out with the European or worldwide geographic distribution, I am from a lightly represented porion of the U.S., namely the Deep South.

AND, lest I leave an impression that I take ET for granted: thanks to everyone who participates here in any way, you all make this a unique and unusually informative blog.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead

by blueneck on Thu Feb 26th, 2009 at 08:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Welcome back, blueneck! And please don't refrain from commenting.

I certainly would love to read diaries about or from the Deep South, even if they are not written in suthen di'lect... ;-)

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char

by Melanchthon on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 at 04:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.  I think it's nice to be back in the blogosphere - so far so good I guess! One of the other things about me is that I am slow to respond sometimes.  It's nice to be able to take a bit of time to ponder a response or to actually engage in the "meat world" instead of staying plugged in to the "e-world".

As for diaries in the su'then dialect, I don't much do 'em.  If you just read my comments with a characteristic extra long and and open-mouthed "i-i-i" sound whenever you encounter a long "i" in a word, you'll pretty much get the i-i-dea about how a lot of southerners speak, even when we speak "the King's English".  Most other American dialects use an "ah-ee" sound when encountering a long "i".

You are much more likely to catch me doing a diary on some currently relevant science topic, or a heart-felt plea in support of a particular idea or issue. I'm not prolific, but I try to be thorough. I guess I'm something of a perfectionist and don't like to declare anything "finished" enough to let it go...

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead

by blueneck on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 at 07:09:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I logged on just to say that this is EXACTLY my very own position, UID 99 here but not much of the commenter or writer, just lurker with a capital "L" and always checking out the press round-up, but:

"The quality of commentary on this site always makes me think twice about commenting because I am afraid I'll say something stupid.  That, and I've been in a self-imposed hiatus because of one mistake I made posting to another site under a different username. As comments, go, it wasn't really that egregious, just a lame joke attempt made in very poor taste that got deleted almost immediately by the site admin (thank goodness). That's been at least a year now, so maybe I can trust myself again..."

This sums up my feeling as well and I couldn't have said it better.  I've mentioned it a couple of times to Jerome and he always calls BS on it, encouraging me to participate more.  I don't know, I just feel like I have more input on topics on dKos, probably because I feel more comfortable and informed on US topics.  On the other hand I am becoming more unsettled about the lack of Obama criticism over there, I don't think that is healthy for that site, IMHO.

I guess this is as good a time as any to announce that I finally made it to Jena and have started my PhD research at the Friedrich Schiller Universität.  My relationship ended in October and in November I was literally homeless, staying with a friend for awhile but it was the best thing to motivate me to move from that horrible little town in Sauerland and to get on with my life.

That said, without any social network, it's pretty lonely here so far.  But there is a fairly large Die Linke representation here in Jena and I've already spoken with one of the politicos about volunteer work, especially in the upcoming elections.  That will help educate me on the functioning of the political system here in Germany and the EU as well as give me an opportunity to get out and make new friends.  It might even give me something that I feel comfortable writing about here.

Lastly, I have one suggestion for a series here.  It would be a lot of work, granted, for someone else here with the expertise.  But my thought would be a series of EU Politics for Dummies.  I mean a basic outline of institutions, their functioning and relationships to one another, much like you would expect in a basic civics course.  Something what every EU citizen should understand about the government(s) and how it affects daily life.  Much like in US politics - "...this is the 3rd branch of government, the Congress.  It is composed of two Houses ..." as so on.  I think that would generate discussion and eventually informed opinion for a few people because when I read diaries, a lot of times I have no clue about the entities discussed and/or criticized. My 2 cents, cheers.

"Schiller sprach zu Goethe, Steck in dem Arsch die Flöte! Goethe sagte zu Schiller, Mein Arsch ist kein Triller!"

by Jeffersonian Democrat (rzg6f@virginia.edu) on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 at 12:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mig has read through most of the treaties, and posted lots of comments explaining the different EU institutions in various levels of detail. Trouble is digging out those comments...

- Jake

"Terraforming your own planet to make it uninhabitable hardly counts as epic win." - ThatBritGuy

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 at 01:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've been working on exactly that, though mostly through reading hundreds of thousands of EU online descriptions of themselves and comparing them with such sites as Followthemoney etc - and of course wikipedia and quite a few other sites of varying degrees of bias.

It's an interactive map with v. short descriptions that appear on mouse rollover, and more comprehensive text appears if you click. I'm trying to get it down to 3000 neutral words total - but feels like its going to be over 5k. (Already too much for the wide audience it is aimed at).

I'm doing it for a social liberal party in Finland, after persuading them of the benefits of shoestring supporting such an endeavour, as part of a rather large 'rebranding' of the party. As such, I can't share the texts yet, but there will be a beta version up in a few weeks that I will need feedback on. I'd be happy to give access to interested people when the time comes.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 at 03:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wow, thanks for the heads up on that sven, I would be very interested in such a site. Especially one prepared by you! I am in dire need of a primer on the EU. I have only a vague understanding of the actual EU governing structure and processes.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead
by blueneck on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 at 07:19:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You are not alone in vague understanding! And it is easy to see why. The EU is built like the brain, with massive redundancy - a linear process it is not. Not many people can get their heads around the fact that there exist 'The Council of the European Union', 'The Council of Europe' and 'The European Council'. Quite an Alice of Wonderland arrangement. 3 different bodies and only one legally part of the EU.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Feb 28th, 2009 at 02:47:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hi, JD. The level of commentary here can be intimidating, but I never learned anything much by being timid. I just hope that any obvious ignorance on my part will be greeted in a collegial manner.

It's good to hear that you are continuing your education and volunteering. Those are two things you should feel very good about.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. -Margaret Mead

by blueneck on Fri Feb 27th, 2009 at 07:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU politics for dummies is a great idea, JeffDem. I don't comment a whole lot, either, as I'm only an outsider looking in at EU issues.

Or, write about Jena, what it's like, what you're doing. Yes, I know that's not lofty and rarified, but you could make it very informative. Use the journalism model of going from specific to general to discuss an issue particular to the time and place.

OK, /editor.

by Mnemosyne on Sat Feb 28th, 2009 at 07:53:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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