Saturday Open Thread

by afew
Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 10:02:04 AM EST

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I jumped into reading Robert Baer's books while I was in Providence.  Finished See No Evil and working on Sleeping with the Devil now.  Very interesting, and somewhat terrifying, stuff.

Baer is a former case officer for the CIA, and the books kind of make for a True Spook's rebuttal to paper-pushing psychopaths like Michael Scheuer, who, contrary to what he and the Faux News crowd insist on implying, has never actually been out in the field doing the real work of intelligence-gathering.

The view on what, exactly, has happened to the CIA over the last few decades makes a lot more sense than the Village explanation.  Essentially, Baer's view is that the CIA's failures -- not seeing the rise in radicalization in the Middle East, not knowing Saddam didn't have weapons of mass destruction, etc -- are a product of the fact that political meddling and the bureaucratic spinelessness that accompanies it has led the agency to do almost no actual, on-the-ground intelligence-gathering.

Instead, things like looking at satellite photos and making up stories to go along with them -- looking at you, Colin Powell -- have replaced the old-school stuff.

Anyway, recommended.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 10:48:46 AM EST
Distinctly recall reading Robert Baer saying this in the Atlantic not long after 9/11.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:06:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's important to understand that it's not, generally speaking, the military establishment that has a problem in this area. Of course they tend to be conservative and homophobic, but they are also realistic and in desperate need of trained intelligence officers, etc.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/03/military_westpoint_knightsout_031609w/

The problem is the politicians run by the religious right and their ridiculous "literal" misreadings of folklore...

by asdf on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 07:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this similar to ghost Wars ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:40:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I haven't read Ghost Wars, for the record, but no, it doesn't seem to be similar.  Baer's books only barely touch on Afghanistan when he writes about his time in Dushanbe and dealing with the Islamic crazies in the Pamirs in Tajikistan just after the Soviet Union collapsed, but that section is more a coverage of how extremists were taking over the area between Tajikistan and Afghanistan, while the Russian military was basically left to rot.

I think the period when the CIA was involved with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan was the period when he was in Beirut trying to figure out who Islamic Jihad was (which is actually pretty interesting).

I gather from the reviews that GW covers the collapse of the CIA a bit, too, so there may be a few points of similarity.  I've been meaning to read GW, too, since Obama mentioned he was reading it during the campaign, and I wanted to know what he'd be absorbing from it.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:05:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Interestingly, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and all that are the least of his concerns.  In fact, on Iran, Baer's argument is basically the same one that Obama made during the election, except to say that he goes further in saying he doesn't have much of a problem with a nuclear Iran, and that Iran hasn't been involved with terrorism since 1996.

The second book, SWTD, is so far an indictment of the House of Saud both as corrupt rulers and as a mix of appeasers and outright supporters of Sunni terrorism, an investigation into heavy arms trading going into the country, and the implication that the clock is rapidly ticking down on the royal family.

Which is potentially, of course, a very scary prospect -- something that could conceivably make the Taliban taking over Pakistan look like a walk in the park.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:16:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wahabi:Saudi Arabia = Taliban:Afganistan. Both are Suni and Saudi "scholarships" for Taliban schools during the resistance to Soviet occupation of Afganistan strengthened the alignment between Wahabi and Talibi.  The Saudi Royal Family has known for a long time that they are riding the tiger of Wahabi religious fervor.  

Abdul Aziz very carefully closed down the Ikwan, or Brotherhood, after they had served the purpose of facilitating the uniting of the peninsula under the House of Saud.  But they have had to accommodate themselves to the attitudes of Wahabi clerics, as inconvenient as that may be to their own lifestyles.  The question of the long term political sustainability of this coexistence remains. I highly doubt that a Wahabi Arabia would be an improvement over Saudi Arabia.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 05:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm getting increasingly irritated with the number of news articles only available as video.

I don't like video.  I can't be bothered with video.  I don't want to spend four minutes plus watching some permatanned robot reading out what I could read for myself in seconds.

Bah, humbug. I think I'm getting old.

by Sassafras on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:16:15 AM EST
I agree. Video is good for moving pictures, but it terms of delivering syntactic information (is that the right term?), it's somewhere between one and two orders of magnitude slower than written text.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:19:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
MillMan:
between one and two orders of magnitude slower than written text.

lol, would that be 1.5 orders of magnitude?

my slide rule melted...

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:24:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well talking head TV is closer to the two orders of magnitude end...

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:25:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
heh, i hear ya, later for those 'production values' (acrylic helmets), gimme some lowdown, gritty html text anytime!
i hear there is an app that will let you watch in double speed, w/out the chipmunks effect, the mind boggles.

speed reading is so last century, speed-vidding the way forward, onwards and downwards...

"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do." Jim Hightower

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:21:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree, with reading I can skip the things I am not interested in, skim or whatever - but can not do it with a video. Besides they are more difficult to for information gathering if you hearing impaired, then reading is the easiest and fasted way.

But it must be successful for some people, as the videos are showing up more and more.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:22:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems like you're not alone, but does this say more about us as a group than video as a medium ?

But then again, I still buy two newspapers a day so I'm real old-school.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:35:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Is it the mail or express you buy as toilet paper though?

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Neither, I wouldn't put the money in their pocket.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not just news. Software tutorials - video being the worst medium in the world for software tutorials. (With the possible exceptions of oil painting, gourmet cookery, and garden sculpture.)

I've had a 'we're moving away from text towards movies' diary simmering for a while now.

Maybe I should post it on YouTube.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe I should post it on YouTube.

Kewl! And instead of comments we can post mashups (and LOLcaptioned screenshots, natch)!

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
LOLTBG, coming Summer 2009.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:21:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Feh. You misunderstand - any LOLTBG site would be run by me for personal profit, while using volunteer content provided by everyone else in the world.

It's the One True Web 2.0 Way™.

Also - kittens.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 04:23:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
During the dot com boom the great guru Jim Cramer was already touting his opinion that Internet would become TV.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 03:30:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, audio is probably the worst medium in the world for software tutorials.

Someone or the other I was reading recently said that some people learn better from video tutorials than screenshot and text and some don't. So he/she produces both and was being pleased about a piece of software that made that easier.

Actually, I don't mind overview tutorials in video.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 03:42:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The usual jargon is that there are visual, auditory and kinaesthetic learners, who learn best via seeing, via language (this includes hearing and reading) and by doing.

Most of us have a dominant style (I am quite strongly kinaesthetic), though we have elements of all three, and that mixture varies according to subject.  But a well-planned lesson/training session (for children or adults) should, according to current theory, include elements of all three learning styles in order to play to every learner's strengths.

by Sassafras on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 02:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Although theres nothing worse than an online software guide to networking products, when its the networking software dosn't work

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 03:05:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My train for Ankara leaves in several hours. I've been in Istanbul for almost two weeks, and while it's a cool city, I'm antsy to move on.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:20:21 AM EST
Do you need to get a ferry to the other side of the bosphorus or is there a railway tunnel/bridge these days ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They are building a tunnel to connect the subways on both sides. It's supposed to be running in 2012. Wikipedia link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmaray

But for now yeah, I have to take a ferry.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you going to explore Anatolia?

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 11:39:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I might go very far into the east, actually, as I just met someone going the same way, so I might join up with her. Not an area I want to do alone. For now I'm heading to Goreme / Cappadochia.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:18:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Great! Some friends ventured into that region (I forget  how far they went but it was definitely somewhat east of Dyarbakir) and from the pictures and stories it must be fascinating.

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm SO sick of bloody Michael Jackson - two days of constant coverage - no escape on BBC, France24, Deutsche Welle, etc. - ever Al Jazeera ! If I see another extract from Thriller - I'll scream - but not like the damn fans.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice. Blog - Nice Experience
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:47:09 PM EST
You think that's bad?

Even the homepage at scienceblogs has been taken over.

Aliens could land on the White House lawn and nobody would notice.

by Sassafras on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:01:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well.

Deep Thought : Thoughts from Kansas

Can society persist without Michael Jackson, Farrah Fawcett, Ed McMahon?

And will the hubbub over Michael Jackson's death do what the Iranian government couldn't: destroy Twitter?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 04:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm still recovering from a bit too much fun last night. I ran into an old schoolfriend I hand't seen in 20 years at a beer fest, so we were catching up.

Oddly we both recognised each other straight away. I can't honestly say I was at my most femme last night, I'd just cycled to the fest and was hot, sweaty with hair pointing in all directions and wearing trousers (which never helps). So I was less confusing than normal.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 12:58:42 PM EST
Clearly Paul Krugman hates small-town America.

And I'm definitely in favor of creating a Secretary of World of Warcraft.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:41:53 PM EST
BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | Sri Lanka astrologer is arrested

The authorities in Sri Lanka have arrested a popular astrologer who predicted that the president will be ejected from office, police say.

Chandrasiri Bandara announced last week that the government would flounder in September and October because of political and economic problems.

The opposition have condemned the arrest and warned that the country is heading towards a dictatorship.



If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:50:05 PM EST
Nobody could have predicted that..

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:51:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I've said before about coming out of work in Northampton, opposite the theatre to be faced with a poster advertising "An evening with Doris Stokes, world famous Psychic" with a banner across it saying "Cancelled due to unforseen circumstances" Unfortunately back before the days of Camera phones.

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 01:55:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
40 years ago tonight the NYPD staged yet another raid on a gay bar. But this time, for reasons unknown, the patrons resisted leading to a riot that has become known as the birthplace of the Gay liberation movement.

That bar was The Stonewall.

Prior to this other gay groups such as the Mattachine society had tried the tactic of invisibility, adopting a preppy styl that rendered them anonymous within society. Effectively they colluded with society's prejudice against them. They railed against the queers and the drag queens who gave being gay a bad name, bleieving that, if only such people would go away, they would be accepted.

But after Stonewall, Gay liberation became more confrontational. Recognising that society would never accept them if they hid away, they began to challenge every aspect of the hypocrisy around sexuality.

And we are where we are. Gay people are largely accepted, discrimination against them is not just illegal in many countries but frowned upon. Many countries allow recognition of partnerships, something undreamed of a decade ago.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sat Jun 27th, 2009 at 03:42:46 PM EST


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