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Open Thread

by DoDo
Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 11:53:18 AM EST

Long Live The Indestructible Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam.

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Display:
Open Thread | 74 comments (74 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Canned Spam (4.00 / 8)

Today, when we routinely send men into space, it is easy to forget that in the late 1950s there was tremendous anxiety about firing a human being into space strapped atop a rocket. "Spam in a can," was legendary pilot Chuck Yeager's remark



Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 11:59:47 AM EST
Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (4.00 / 7)
Not everyone can be assumed to know Cold War era stuff well (and that on both sides of the Iron Curtain). So for the benefit of those; the subtitle is an ironic combination of the following:

  1. "Long Live The Indestructible [enter Warshaw Pact member]-Soviet Friendship" was a much used phrase, be it during state visits, or whenever Soviet military presence was apparent.

  2. Canned spam was a top agricultural export product, and problems in opening the cans were legendary.

(I first heard the combination from a Tour de France commentator, who repeats it often; but I suspect it is much older and the author unknown.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (4.00 / 6)
If it is indestructible, why does it need to be wished a long life?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:36:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (4.00 / 2)
Narrative logic.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:48:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (4.00 / 2)
It's like Scholasticism - how can God be infinitely just and infinitely merciful at the same time? Or, given that God is omnipotent, can He create a boulder too heavy for Him to move?

So much for Atheistic Communism.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:51:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (4.00 / 5)
Will Comrade Migeru please report to the Torture Chamber People's Re-education Center for an attitude adjustment?

Thank You.

No one could have predicted

by ATinNM on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (none / 1)
Comrade ATinNM, do you know where Room 101 is?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:17:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (none / 0)
Of course: in the offices of Miniluv.

No one could have predicted
by ATinNM on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (4.00 / 2)
Allrightey, then. Cheers.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:23:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (4.00 / 4)
If it is indestructible, why does it need to be wished a long life?

The same reason Soviet occupation was (not) wished a long life. The irony has multiple levels.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hungarian-Soviet Canned Spam (none / 1)
I should also note that that Tour de France commentator uses the phrase in its implicit double meaning, too: he uses it when there is an escape by multiple cyíclists, who work together until the final kilometres, and then try to trick the others and escape the escape to win.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 at 04:32:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
FWIW (4.00 / 8)
I signed this today:

Not In My Name!

Jobbik (Movement for a Better Hungary) will send three representatives to the European Parliament. But Krisztina Morvai, Zoltán Balczó and Csanád Szegedi do not represent me, a European citizen. Add your signature: don't let them speak in your name. Stand up against hatred and intolerance. Show what you really think of Jobbik!

News on this front:

  1. One of the above, Csanád Szegedi, entered the EP in the uniform of the Hungarian Guard, Jobbik's paramilitary (which reminds in parts of the uniform of the WWII-time fascists Arrowcrossers).

  2. This after ten days ago, the second-level court reinforced the ruling ordering dissolution of the Hungarian Guard, making it legally binding.

  3. Jobbik and allied groups held an illegal protest the previous weekend, dissolved by police. But this past Saturday, Jobbik held a legal protest rally, in which attendants "declared" the re-establishment of the Guard by acclamation, and distributed uniforms.

  4. Police did not intervene, but asked for legal opinion about who can be incriminated for running a dissolved organisation...


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 11:59:55 AM EST
Re: FWIW (4.00 / 4)
Pretty much the same campaign is being run against the BNP candidates to the EP.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:01:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FWIW (none / 1)
Link/number of signatures?

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: FWIW (4.00 / 2)
89,023 signatures

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:28:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Connecting Europe (4.00 / 7)
Addledum to my train diaries: French rail authorities have just approved Bombardier TRAXX F140 locomotives for running on French rails. (Being the last major EU country giving the approval to that type, hich is the most used in international traffic.)

In the reverse direction, last month, approval for Alstom Prima 3U15 locos was finalised by German authorities, too. (This one was long in coming, because in the original inflexible construction of the bogies, the track was 'too tight' for them in tight curves on German lines.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:30:08 PM EST
Re: Connecting Europe (4.00 / 3)
Addledee and Addledum?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 12:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
And if they were from Scotland would they be wearing plaidle?

Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine - Patti Smith
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
Eh, I meant Addendum...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:57:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
It was a good involuntary joke...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:41:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (4.00 / 6)
No, it's worse: more top links in Google...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:48:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 0)
LOL!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
You coined a new English word, congratulations!
addled
Adjective
  1. confused or unable to think clearly
  2. (of eggs) rotten [Old English adela filth]
Addledum has a certain ring to it...

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 03:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
Usage : In my addledum I accidentally voted for Tony Blair

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:14:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
Have you gotten any wind of the chaos in the Berlin S-Bahn?
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:46:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
Yes, the damn wheelset problem. Just when the ICE wheelset replacements were done with...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (4.00 / 4)
Basically the S-Bahn Berlin chiefs decided it was better for profits not to do wheelset security checks (they got fired for this and may face criminal charges).
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
Wanna diary it with an on-the-ground view?

BTW, I was considering a sequel to my modern loco series focusing on modern EMUs/DMUs -- and their persistent problems...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:50:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
I might, though everything is boringly predictable!
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 03:11:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
I note the story goes this far back.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
How can there NOT be a DIN standard for railroad curves??? I am amazed...
by asdf on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 11:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 0)
DIN is German standard. France had different standards.

Another, relatively well-known difference between the two is cant deficiency in curves.

For the non-railway-educated: "cant" is the tilt of tracks in curves, e.g. how much the outer rail is higher than the inner one. Cant obviously reduces the centrifugal forces acting on travellers. If the track is not tilted enough for to eliminate centrifugal forces completely at maximum permitted speed, then we have a cant deficiency -- which is the normal case, because we also have to consider when a train goes slow or stops at a signal in a curve.

However, in France, cant deficiency is generally much lower than in almost all other countries. So much so that there is little practical benefit for tilting trains -- which is why we don't see them there.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 at 01:39:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (4.00 / 2)
Interesting. I've never heard it called "cant" here, only "superelevation" for railroads and "camber" for auto roads. Good summary at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cant_(road/rail), which claims that up to 11" (28 cm) of superelevation is used in Europe!
by asdf on Thu Jul 16th, 2009 at 08:37:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 0)
Upon checking, that 11.8" = 300 mm is unbalanced superelevation (i.e. the Euro term "cant deficiency"), and only for tilting trains. That is, how much more elevation would be needed for no side accelerations at maximum speed.

For cant = superelevation itself, in Europe, the general limit is the same as in the US, 160 mm. It can be higher in France, and higher for slab track elsewhere. I thought it is significantly higher, but upon checking:

  • Slab track on German high-speed lines: max. cant 170 mm (see in this picture)

  • French high-speed lines: max. cant 180 mm.


*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Thu Jul 16th, 2009 at 01:49:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 1)
http://zierke.com/shasta_route/pages/15regulation.html
by asdf on Fri Jul 17th, 2009 at 12:41:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Connecting Europe (none / 0)
Good article, thanks.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Fri Jul 17th, 2009 at 03:04:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)
Doesn't seem like this place is very centered on Europe or politics anymore, but just in case ...

Uhm...

Happy Bastille Day.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:17:35 PM EST
Re: Open Thread (none / 0)
No, we're just spam-centered.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
What were they? 7 prisoners? Four forgers, two loonies, an upper class deviant twit? Some celebration ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 9)
Well, if you don't want to celebrate Bastille Day, you could at least celebrate my birthday...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char
by Melanchthon on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)
Wowza! Happy birthday, republican Melanchthon!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:34:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
Happy birthday. I'll raise a glass when I get home from work

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:36:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
I will certainly toast in honor of Melancthon this evening! all the best, my friend.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 3)
Mon ami - bien sûr!

I just cooked a rather tasty spread out on the patio, and now we shall raise a toast to the Man from Lyon...

Grilled corn, stuffed mushrooms, honey melon salad, entrecôte, marinated garlic cloves, herb olives, and a red you probably wouldn't approve of ;-)

Café presse with a side order of Jameson, and a fun conversation about a youtube movie we plan to make.

But now the toast....Kippis!!

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
Happy mores!

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
Bon anniversaire! See you in September.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 03:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
HBTM (4.00 / 2)
Oh man, oh man, here I am sitting drinking a plastic bottle of Holsten, of all beers (I didn't buy it, I swear!), on your birthday. Fortunately I still have a nice bottle of Held to open. Close...

Here's to you Melanchton, have a good one!

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 03:21:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: HBTM (none / 0)
If you think the Holsten brewed in germany is bad, you should try (or rather, not try) the Holsten brewed in the UK.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 3)
Happy Bastille Melanchthon Day!
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:17:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (none / 1)
Hurrah! Happy Birthday!

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 05:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hope (none / 1)
you had a happy day! and didn't work at all.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 05:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Hope (4.00 / 2)
I did, thanks! I had organised a picnic at noon and between the morning rain and the evening thunderstorm, we had a nice sunny moment...

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char
by Melanchthon on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 06:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
Bon anniversaire...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 07:35:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (none / 1)
For Bastille Day bogging, go here.

Skennah Kowa
by Crazy Horse on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:36:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)
A Bastille Day with Sarkozy parading on the Champs Elysées and Johnny Hallyday singing on the Champ de Mars is one I'd rather forget...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 2)
You forgot Yvette Horner on France Inter this morning.

Ca sauve tout.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:36:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)
I am of an age where things that happen before noon on jours feriés don't exist...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (none / 0)
Lucky you.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)
Some grumble about Johnny's concert mentioned on the TV news tonight (haven't they got the memo at France Television?):

Johnny, a FON (Friend of Nicolas), is still a Swiss resident, where he pays EUR 600K annual taxes instead of EUR 4M had he returned to France, as he promised to do so (and then forgot) when the "fiscal shield" became law in France.

Folks are not too happy to see a fiscal expat being commissioned for this national celebration day with taxpayers money (French taxpayers not Swiss ones...)

But hey, his name was suggested by the Prez himself, so...

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 03:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (none / 0)
And the Bastille Day Tour de France stage was won by... a Brit. Even if not an Englishman.

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (4.00 / 4)
The stage wasn't even actually really disputed - the organiser wanted to try a stage without oreillettes, i.e. suppress the straight communication link between the team manager and the riders, which results in slightly more boring races, less adventurous riders...

14 of the team managers didn't want to lose their authority, and ordered their riders not to contest much of the stage (until the final sprint)?

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (none / 1)
Yes, and the riders in these teams cursed those from the remaining teams who joined an escape attempt. In the end, however, the sprinter teams began to work, and that was it for the escape (caught just after the 2km gate).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Sad, heavy rock geek thingie

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Trip to Scotland (4.00 / 5)
It took me a while, but I have (almost) finalized my preparations for a brief excursion to some choice Scottish sites.  I fly in to Glasgow on the 29th of August and spend the night there, leaving the next morning to New Lanark where I will spend the evenings of the 30th and 31st (might shorten that stay if possible).  On the 1st of September, I head to Inverness, from where I will travel to Kyle of Lochalsh (actually Plockton, where  might choose to overnight; too little time to make it to Skye) by train on the morning of 2nd Sept., then back to overnight in Inverness (If I decide not to stay in Plockton) and train to Stirling on the 3rd for the conference.

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 01:57:48 PM EST
Re: Trip to Scotland (none / 1)
Plockton, home of Hamish Macbeth

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:18:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Trip to Scotland (none / 0)
Oh, my.  I graduated (and left for home) before that series came on TV!

"Beware of the man who does not talk, and the dog that does not bark." Cheyenne
by maracatu on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 at 02:09:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here we go! (4.00 / 6)
House puts out health care bill.

Public option.  Check.
Higher taxes on the wealthy.  Check.

Now if Baucus would stop screwing around with Grassley, we could get this done.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:57:44 PM EST
Re: Here we go! (4.00 / 2)
Great stuff.

Is there a "public right to a minimum health standard" or is that for the next New Deal 70 years down the line?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 05:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Here we go! (4.00 / 5)
Yep, got that, too.  No discrimination on pre-existing conditions, etc.  Public option gets rolled out to be available to all citizens and employers (as opposed to leaving it only open to the unemployed and a few others).

Subsidies for households with incomes up to 400% of the poverty line, or about $90k for a family of four, if I remember correctly.

No taxation on employer health benefits, which I didn't have strong feelings about, but Obama makes a fair point about opposing it on grounds that he campaigned on no new taxes for households below $250k per year.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 05:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Here we go! (4.00 / 3)
As important as the public option, in my opinion, the bill also sets up a national exchange, rather than leaving those to be sorted on a state-by-state basis or in the form of localized co-op nonsense.  States can do their own if they like.

That was important.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 05:10:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Here we go! (4.00 / 2)
Impressive to see some progress.

What are the odds of this making it to Obama's desk without losing some of the shine?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 at 05:55:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Here we go! (none / 1)
At least some of its shine?  Probably not good.  As always, the House is not the problem.  For now, though, the House passing this bill will do.  That way we have at least one good bill going in on one side for the conference committee.  The Kennedy bill is the Senate isn't as strong, but it'd be a good effort for the Senate.

Mostly the issue now is getting the Finance committee to get off its ass and pass something that can be reconciled with the Kennedy bill, then through the Senate and reconciled with the House.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 at 06:30:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Here we go! (none / 1)
Good time to do it, too.  Obama's approvals had been trending down a bit for a couple weeks while he was overseas, but they're recovering.  Back above 60%.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 05:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Re: Here we go! (none / 0)
A $1 trillion bargain - Paul Krugman Blog - NYTimes.com
That's a bargain: the catastrophe of being ill without insurance, the fear of losing insurance, all ended -- for much less than the Bush administration's useless $1.35 trillion first tax cut, quickly followed by another $350 billion.


The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 15th, 2009 at 06:38:27 AM EST
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