Sunday Open Thread

by afew
Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 10:34:22 AM EST

Snoozy?


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I've been checking up on the latest research on hormesis and background radiation, and a random google search found this. If the numbers are correct, why not dismantle the exclusion zone and open it for renewed human habitation?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 11:02:40 AM EST
I suppose before one opens the exclusion zone, one would likely check whether the statistics have any degree of accuracy.  From looking at the funders, one might be led to surmise that the Yes I Can Science Foundation might have an ideological agenda.

Dow Chemical, Imperial Oil, Suncor (merger of Sunoco and Petro Canada) and Encana (nat gas and ...) are the major sponsors. Oh yes, and Atomic Energy of Canada, Ltd., though most likely unlimited.

Agenda? No way, Canada is a democracy.

Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 11:47:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
actual, current dose rate levels near Chernobyl.
CBS News was on the site less than 10 minutes when one member of the group went over his exposure limit.

"Right now the dose rate is 200 times the background of what you'd have in Washington, D.C.," [Laurin] Dodd said.

Here's the IAEAs modelling report on radiation levels from effective isotopes dosn't seem to show a large enough fall to justify that suspension.

I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Do note the second last post in that thread... ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Was just providing figures, so you could tell ;-)

I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which is why I said "if the numbers are correct"...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps a tent campground could be constructed for the exclusive use of the board members of the sponsoring companies listed in CH's post above.  If they think it is reasonable to re-populate the area they should be willing to bring their kids in the summer for a month or so at a time.

If sanity be culturally normative, then by the norms of this culture I claim insanity.
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer at eurotrib.com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 01:58:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Regardless of any actual numbers on radiation, why not keep it unoccupied? It isn't like the population of the Ukraine is exploding, and the site is an interesting experiment in the effects of sudden human departure from a modern civilised area.


(from wikipedia)

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
English Russia » Lost City of Chernobyl

Till now the land is abandoned, thousands of houses, thousands acres of the land, everything is now stays almost the same as it was 20 years ago.

Nowadays there guided tours are being conducted to this area. These photos are made by Alexandr Vikulov, pikul2001@mail.ru while participating in such a trip.



I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:36:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess they could turn it into a national park, given the huge biodiversity.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If nothing else it would be an interesting experiment in the rate of decay of civilisation.

I'm tired of this backslapping, aint humanity great BS, we're a virus with shoes Bill Hicks
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 12:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Notice the encroachment of the forest...



Skennah Kowa

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 01:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Would you like to live there?  (;

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 01:15:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd rather stay there than at places with higher natural background...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 03:28:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Traffic was insane as always, but I made it here in the end! Weather is really nice at the moment. Tomorrow I'll be mostly resting I guess, then it's off to Kronshtadt...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 03:09:17 PM EST
The ostensible kickoff for WWII was British / European leaders' perceived need to crush a deliberately re-armed Germany, while the US and other major Western European powers conspired to pit Germany against the Soviet Union.

From WW II To WW III: Global NATO And Remilitarized Germany

In commenting on the rising tide of WWII revisionism in the West, reaching its nadir - to date - on this July 3rd with the passage of a resolution called Reunification of Divided Europe by the Parliamentary Assembly of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) which in effect makes the former Soviet Union (and by implication current Russia) co-responsible for provoking WWII, veteran Russian journalist Valentin Zorin reminded his readers of several events usually swept under the carpet by leading Western circles and their compliant media and scholars:

"The infamously failed Munich conspiracy of the western politicians and the Nazi Fuehrer sought to make the German Army march against the Soviet Union. In those days Moscow was pressing for forming an anti-Hitler coalition and invited a British and French delegation to that end. The talks proved long and fruitless. London and Paris actually sabotaged the talks while urging the Fuehrer to attack the USSR.

"Even after the war had broken out, top-echelon leaders in London and Paris would not give up their attempts to make Hitler's divisions turn about and attack the Soviet Union. A several-month-long period of strange developments came to be known as a Phoney War. While deliberately inactive at the front, the British and French rulers engaged themselves in secret bargaining with Hitler.

Fascinating article, which I'd encourage all to read. Over 70 years later, we're only now beginning to understand the forces that were in play during WWII, much less WWI, which was equally conspiratorial in nature.

See also: Operation Unthinkable

Unthinkable, indeed.

What might this tell us about the wars that have been fought since the late 1940s, and those that are being waged today?

by Loefing on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 04:29:48 PM EST
IMHO Globalresearch is not a very reliable source. This article claims that the presence of German troops in the Balkans equates the occupation of Rhineland in 1936, but doesn't explain what they have in common.

It is well known that Churchill was obsessed (not without reasons...) by the advance of Soviet armies in central and eastern Europe and that some people (like Patton) wanted to fight the USSR and that some Nazi leaders tried to reverse alliances. But the US government opposed such projects and, as far as I know, they were never seriously considered.

Furthermore, this article makes many claims (i.e. alleged secret meetings between Stewart Menzies and Canaris) without quoting any source other than Novosti...

 

"Ne te courbe que pour aimer..." René Char

by Melanchthon on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 05:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You have a point about Global Research which, in fact, could be made with regard to any source that is cited, by you or anyone else, here. As regards all information, whether the source is the internet, mainstream media or books by 'historians', all ought to be taken with a grain of salt.

Arriving at a conclusion of any sort can only be made after having consulted many sources and having distilled the most plausible account one can. The political nature of historical literature, will always contain an element of conjecture.

Hence, for my part, I don't reject websites based on supposed ill reputation.  

Right. So, what about this:    

But the US government opposed such projects and, as far as I know, they were never seriously considered.

Guido Preparata has provided a considerable body of information in his book, 'Conjuring Hitler', full of references with regard to the financial machinations behind both world wars.

I don't take Preparata's word as gospel, any more than I do Rozoff's research, but there are distinct rapprochements between the two.

In any event, both are worthy of consideration.
.    

by Loefing on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 06:53:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is no secret that there were senior British figures, Lord Halifax is the most well-known but there were several others including media owners, who were either very sympathetic to fascism or highly fearful of Communism, who regarded a war against Hitler instead of an alliance as a grave error.

Hess probably parachuted into Scotland in order to meet with and bolster their case. What neither he nor they quite understood was how marginalised they were. Good standing in the House of Lords and at Court was no longer significant in British democracy, and the country was against Hitler.

There had been a groundswell in the country at large that hitler was someone who had to be stopped. MacMillan had his Munich moment and Hitler had ignored him. Britain was still too proud of its heft in the world not to see that as a the worst possible insult, to ignore that and ally ourselves with him would have been impossible to sell politically. Once Britain had been humiliated at munich, war was unavoidable.

Even the Daily mail could see that.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Jul 20th, 2009 at 11:52:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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